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To the Klein Haters

9,798 Views | 74 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by Medaggie
GolfAg93
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I'm not sure where exactly I land.. but I think I'm inclined to believe he should get another year. This tweet was surprising to me.

#1 scoring offense in SEC play.
MisterJones
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Ballooned by OT game vs Auburn and blowout vs Mizzou
rootube
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I wouldn't call myself a Klein hater but when we ran the same play twice on fourth down for a combined negative 5 yards I may have thrown a chair.
vander54
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Most games were pretty close. We ranged from 20-41 until tu

33
21
42
34
38
20
41
7
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Paul Pierce Ag
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I don't think that stat reflects offensive scores only and only offensive scores in regulation. Definitely need to adjust based off the former, I'd argue the latter too

If you adjust for both it brings us down to an avg. of 27.37 pts per SEC game in regulation scored by the offense.

If we adjust the stats for the whole SEC like this, do we still lead the conf. in points per game?
JohnClark929
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Didn't expect to see that!
vander54
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Not sure how others did but I'm sure we'd still be at the top if not #1.
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vander54
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JohnClark929 said:

Didn't expect to see that!


If you listen to the negative nancies you'd expect us to be at the bottom.
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jt16
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I will say I re-watched the first drive 4th and 1 play and Reuben Owen's gets the yard. There was a hole there and Amari dives into the defender.
southernboy1
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Damn the sec is down offensively.
chap
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No. That guy's stats are wrong. He just looked at total points scored, including defensive scores, which isn't how you measure an OFFENSE's productivity. Our offense averaged 27.6 points per game. tu, Alabama, Georgia, and Ole Miss offenses all averaged more points per game than our offense did.

And in his defense the point of his tweet wasn't to point out who had the leading offense, just that points scored are dramatically down this year. He just mistakenly said "offense" in his tweet.
vander54
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Yeah. It's a strange year.

New clock rules?
Better defenses?
Crappy QB play?

I'd love to dig into it all if i had the raw data and time.
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Ag1188
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Gol***93 said:

I'm not sure where exactly I land.. but I think I'm inclined to believe he should get another year. This tweet was surprising to me.

#1 scoring offense in SEC play.
This is stupid as hell considering we played a ton of bad teams, and anyone suggesting we're good at offense is goofy as hell.

Our offense is fckng awful unless against terrible defenses with the exception of Lsu in the 2nd half & South Carolina in the 2nd quarter. Lsu 2nd half was due to Lsu not gameplanning for a zone-read which allowed Reed/Moss to run for a lot and not have to throw. And the we got humiliated in the 2nd half of the South Carolina game.
the most cool guy
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chap said:

No. That guy's stats are wrong. He just looked at total points scored, including defensive scores, which isn't how you measure an OFFENSE's productivity. Our offense averaged 27.6 points per game. tu, Alabama, Georgia, and Ole Miss offenses all averaged more points per game than our offense did.

And in his defense the point of his tweet wasn't to point out who had the leading offense, just that points scored are dramatically down this year. He just mistakenly said "offense" in his tweet.


If you control for points scored in regulation as well, it puts us at 26.375 ppg. What rank is that?
Ag1188
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the most cool guy said:

chap said:

No. That guy's stats are wrong. He just looked at total points scored, including defensive scores, which isn't how you measure an OFFENSE's productivity. Our offense averaged 27.6 points per game. tu, Alabama, Georgia, and Ole Miss offenses all averaged more points per game than our offense did.

And in his defense the point of his tweet wasn't to point out who had the leading offense, just that points scored are dramatically down this year. He just mistakenly said "offense" in his tweet.


If you control for points scored in regulation as well, it puts us at 26.375 ppg. What rank is that?
Now factor in which teams we scored most our points against. It was the terrible teams, minus LSU's 2nd half - not that LSU's defense is good either.
vander54
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Ag1188 said:

Gol***93 said:

I'm not sure where exactly I land.. but I think I'm inclined to believe he should get another year. This tweet was surprising to me.

#1 scoring offense in SEC play.
This is stupid as hell, and anyone suggesting we're good at offense is goofy as hell. Our offense is fckng awful unless against terrible defenses. Lsu 2nd half is the only decent defense we scored on (maybe Carolina 1st half too), and the Lsu 2nd half was due to Lsu not planning for a zone-read which allowed Reed/Moss to run for a lot.


Team/avg/our points scored in order of scoring defense rank

South Carolina/ 17.83/ 20
Missouri/ 20.08/ 41
Auburn/ 21.33/ 41 (31 before OT tied for most all year)
LSU/ 23.75 / 38

Arkansas and tu are the only games we were held below the teams average. And arkansas was by less than 4 points in a historically tough game.
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NyAggie
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rootube said:

I wouldn't call myself a Klein hater but when we ran the same play twice on fourth down for a combined negative 5 yards I may have thrown a chair.


Yeah, that was brutal to watch

There's some thing Klein needs to improve on but overall he's been better a d has really improved our red zone offense, hence the highest scoring sec offense in conference play stat

I think if we can get some playmakers at wr coupled with reeds growth and improvement this offense will really open up more

vander54
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Exactly. There's stuff to be upset about but there's also some really bright spots.

Get better WR add RB depth and contiue to develop our OL and it could pay dividends
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Nosmo
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Not all SEC schedules were created equal, and since everybody doesn't play everybody, there's lots of inequties.

SEC games only SCORING DEFENSE per game:

14.8 Texas
18.1 Mississippi
19.3 Tennessee
20.3 South Carolina
21.8 Alabama
22.1 Georgia
24.8 Texas A&M
24.9 Auburn
25 Vanderbilt
26.3 LSU
26.4 Oklahoma
26.5 Kentucky
27.1 Missouri
27.4 Arkansas
27.5 Florida
38.9 Mississippi State

Devil is in the details.



A. G. Pennypacker
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Paul Pierce Ag said:

I don't think that stat reflects offensive scores only and only offensive scores in regulation. Definitely need to adjust based off the former, I'd argue the latter too

If you adjust for both it brings us down to an avg. of 27.37 pts per SEC game in regulation scored by the offense.

If we adjust the stats for the whole SEC like this, do we still lead the conf. in points per game?


After the tu game, no
vander54
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tu had an easier schedule and didn't preform as well. Ole Miss easier and still worse scoring offense.
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A. G. Pennypacker
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Gol***93 said:

I'm not sure where exactly I land.. but I think I'm inclined to believe he should get another year. This tweet was surprising to me.

#1 scoring offense in SEC play.


Interesting that scoring across the league was so much lower this year than 4 previous.
Paul Pierce Ag
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Real SEC scoring stats- excluding all points scored by a defender and their subsequent PATs or 2pt conversions and excluding all points scored in OT:

1. Texas, 28.5 ppg
2. Alabama, 28.125 ppg
3. Georgia, 28 ppg
4. Ole Miss, 27.5 ppg
T5. Florida, 26.375 ppg
T5. Texas A&M, 26.375 ppg <<
7. South Carolina, 26.25 ppg
8. LSU, 24.875 ppg
T9. Arkansas, 23.75 ppg
T9. Tennessee, 23.75 ppg
11. Mississippi St., 21.125 ppg
12. Missouri, 20.5 ppg
13. Vanderbilt, 19.375 ppg
14. Auburn, 16.75 ppg
15. Kentucky, 13.25 ppg
16. Oklahoma, 12.875 ppg


Lots of SEC teams masked offensive deficiencies with defensive scores this year. Texas, oddly enough, did not score on defense against SEC opponents. Nearly everyone else did.


We beat the T5th, 8th, T9th, 11th and 12th scoring offenses in the SEC, and lost to the 1st, 7th, and 14th ranked SEC offenses.

Not terrible, but looks like we pretty much just beat teams that were bad at scoring in the SEC. Our offense has some work to do.
1996OlAg
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But, how do you quantify stupid plays?
agracer
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jt16 said:

I will say I re-watched the first drive 4th and 1 play and Reuben Owen's gets the yard. There was a hole there and Amari dives into the defender.
He did the same thing on the second 4th down play against (edit) South Carolina.
vander54
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That's still not the best because you have to look at quality of the oppenents but then that's not accuraye because the opponent's may play a very weak schedule as well. Then you need to look at situational scoring. Did the team score in garbage time or did they play conservative because they were dominating.

There is no great measure of a teams offense without going into great detail and digging into a ton of data.

At the end of the day our offense was not bad compared to the conference and we didn't have anywhere near the easiest schedule like tu did.

Saying Klein sucks means half the OC in conference should be fired as well. Klein had his issues but it was year 1 with few injuries that unfortunately were to key peices of the offense.
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AggieDub04
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Nosmo said:

Not all SEC schedules were created equal, and since everybody doesn't play everybody, there's lots of inequties.

SEC games only SCORING DEFENSE per game:

14.8 Texas
18.1 Mississippi
19.3 Tennessee
20.3 South Carolina
21.8 Alabama
22.1 Georgia
24.8 Texas A&M
24.9 Auburn
25 Vanderbilt
26.3 LSU
26.4 Oklahoma
26.5 Kentucky
27.1 Missouri
27.4 Arkansas
27.5 Florida
38.9 Mississippi State

Devil is in the details.






Now do Texas. They need to fire the entire offensive staff too right?
LuoJi
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Look at the rats scramble to try to explain away why we led the SEC in scoring so their sad and wrong little worldview can live on
GolfAg93
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Careful.. most guys in here would unironically agree that over half the OC's in the conference should be fired, if they were fans of those teams.
GolfAg93
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runontexas
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A Klein offense with Moss & Owens next year will be SCARY

#BirdsUp #GigEm
IslanderAg04
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Only stat i care about, 0 against our in state ****** bag rivals, while battling for atlanta.
vander54
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IslanderAg04 said:

Only stat i care about, 0 against our in state ****** bag rivals, while battling for atlanta.


So everything boils down to 1 game?

All that masters is tu?
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Paul Pierce Ag
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vander54 said:

That's still not the best because you have to look at quality of the oppenents but then that's not accuraye because the opponent's may play a very weak schedule as well. Then you need to look at situational scoring. Did the team score in garbage time or did they play conservative because they were dominating.

There is no great measure of a teams offense without going into great detail and digging into a ton of data.

At the end of the day our offense was not bad compared to the conference and we didn't have anywhere near the easiest schedule like tu did.

Saying Klein sucks means half the OC in conference should be fired as well. Klein had his issues but it was year 1 with few injuries that unfortunately were to key peices of the offense.



I never said my metric was the perfect way to determine the best SEC offense. It's better than the one the OP gave though, and I think it does a good enough job placing teams about where they should be as far as SEC rankings go.

It places us a few spots above avg. in the SEC (and below the upper crust). I think that's pretty close. It gets the top offenses right too, Texas, Bama, Georgia, and Ole Miss. and it gets the bottom feeders right too. It correctly shows how FL with Lagway was sneaky good by the end of the season.

Not saying it's perfect, but I think it's generally right, and I think you would agree with it in principle had it been what that tweet said.

You're lumping me in with the rest of the goon squad on this thread, but I don't belong. I think Klein is worth keeping for another year. Reserve judgement till end of next season. His playcalling at times (especially against Texas) was sus, but you can't deny he schemed a bunch of WRs open over the season that Marcel never saw. There's potential there.


Where you and I disagree is on Marcel Reed. You seem to think he's got a lot of potential. I haven't seen that. Yes, he has been improving, but even so, his best games this year are comparable to a great CFB QB's middling games. I don't like that Marcel never showed us a high-end passing attack, not even against our rent-a-wins. I don't like how every SEC team that knew he was starting basically shut him down. I don't like how he missed/didn't see open WRs nearly every game. QBs with potential don't typically look like this.

Marcel's got a lot of work to do in this offseason if he wants to prove me wrong. I'd love to see it though.
Papa Joe
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Yes, "statistics numbers can lie" because while numbers themselves don't lie, the way they are presented, interpreted, or manipulated can be misleading, often used to distort facts or support a biased argument, making it appear as if the data is saying something it isn't; this is often summarized by the phrase "lies, damned lies, and statistics.".
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