Wonder if Sylla reconsiders. He's DE1 if he wants it.

The staff did know. That's why they signed Vandy's De'Rickey Wright, but it didn't work out.

You have posted some excellent information on some of the schematic issues the defense had this year. But the biggest issues were still blown assignments and the inability of a free rusher to tackle a QB for a sack.

Our sack total could've easily been double what it was. And the worst part was the missed sacks almost always resulted in big plays for the opponent.

Dex_Mick_Bear said:

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The staff did know. That's why they signed Vandy's De'Rickey Wright, but i didn't work out.

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Yup and the contingency plan after him not coming over was Tyreek….who got injured game 1. From then on we became a much more of a true Nickel 4-2-5.

Emilio Fantastico said:

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You have posted some excellent information on some of the schematic issues the defense had this year. But the biggest issues were still blown assignments and the inability of a free rusher to tackle a QB for a sack.

Our sack total could've easily been double what it was. And the worst part was the missed sacks almost always resulted in big plays for the opponent.

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All this is true. The scheme we settled on wasn't necessarily unsound just inflexible due to personnel (also don't think it was a choice by the staff just the best we could do given the circumstances). With that said, when all the miscues you just pointed out are layered that on top of the inflexible scheme….. this year is what you get. Coach Elko's defenses from year 1 to 2 typically take a big jump. I would expect the same to happen next year.

great OP posts and great posts that followed… Don't know where this fits in, but Ratcliffe sucked… so did Hill… Brooks was physical but got burned way to often

bulverdeaggie93 said:

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great OP posts and great posts that followed… Don't know where this fits in, but Ratcliffe sucked… so did Hill… Brooks was physical but got burned way to often

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I would venture to guess the staff has a much higher opinion of Ratcliffe than most people on this board. He was the Weak side safety behind Nic.. making him the extra run support since the backers where bumped to the passing strength. So from 11 yards deep he had to play that inside 4th and at the same time be able to force the edge and even fill inside at times. In other words they ask a lot of him probably knowing full well that position was going to be put in some tough situations because of the personnel limitations at Nickel. He seems like a mature kid and he handled it the best he could given the circumstances I would interested to see him in the role with a little less stress on him (having a true Star opposite) I bet he'll look worlds better. But in my opinion he bit the bullet for the team and played a very tough position his first year. Hill was another one who was asked to fill in after Tyreek went down. He actually is pretty damn good at keeping leverage on run support (especially as the season went on). His coverage skills obviously need to improve but hopefully this off-season he grows as a player because his baseline instincts are really good.. Brooks I really think if he put some mass on this off-season he could be a lot like Antonio was. He wasn't bad back deep but he plays really over his toes and gets caught doing it from time to time in coverage. I can't remember what game is was (might of been auburn) but we were in match coverage and #2(inside receiver) ran quick to the flat and instead of opening his hips and turning to meet #1 on his path on the post he ran right past his a$$ and it was wide open. My point with him he seems better in a phonebooth than in a field. as that Star he can play that way and its advantageous to do so. I'll be interested to see him develop.

One gets held less than the other.

Thoughts on Ben Perry from Louisville (in the portal)?

Is the nickel 4-2-5 an elko or Bateman issue? I know the constant stunts the DL would run exacerbated the problem more, but I don't remember those happening with elko

Curious since we got exposed against SC how difficult it would be to adjust scheme rather than just trying to clean up tackling issues? Obviously missed tackles on QB scrambles or when they fed it to Sanders will kill you most games. Thanks for the discourse, agreed most helpful thread I've seen in a long time.

TheRatt87 said:

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Thoughts on Ben Perry from Louisville (in the portal)?

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6-3 205-210 that is what you want in that Star position.

Tergdor said:

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Is the nickel 4-2-5 an elko or Bateman issue? I know the constant stunts the DL would run exacerbated the problem more, but I don't remember those happening with elko

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I do remember in the first year Elko was here as DC, we were very simplistic on defense. We lined up the same to most things. Too me his protocol is to get very good at his foundational stuff. Then as they get more personnel that fits his system the more you start to see the wrinkles in his defense. Even with Bateman this is true when he was at Army. I also remember our front 4 his first year were extremely good vs the run and not great at getting any sort pressure (reverse issue).

Maybe so regarding the reverse issue, but…

In 2018, our starting dl had 24.5 sacks and 43 tackles for loss.

This year, our starting 4 got 9 sacks and 29 tfls

I'd take their pressure any day

buglerank06 said:

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Curious since we got exposed against SC how difficult it would be to adjust scheme rather than just trying to clean up tackling issues? Obviously missed tackles on QB scrambles or when they fed it to Sanders will kill you most games. Thanks for the discourse, agreed most helpful thread I've seen in a long time.

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We did get better at handling the weak side run. The issue was we ask Ratcliffe to play more aggressive and heavy on that side of the formation. Hurting us on the back end. Teams also attacked the nickel as well since he was a secondary run support so any time we bumped to help him.. we got in a 4-1 again leading to the weak safety having to pick up that slack. So its not like we didn't adjust but because of the personnel we had to work with to stay within our system and not have to teach a whole bunch of guys new things.... we got what we got.

And our front is 7 man spacing "out gapped. " So by the nature of this we are always 1 short.

But when you have that true star position its essentially 8 man spacing and you are "gapped up."

In addition when you have a Star who can be that Antonio Johnson type...with the ball on a hash you can play cover 2 into the boundary giving you a force as the squat corner, and to the wide side play cover 4 and use that Star as your strong side force... which actually gives you 9 man spacing while not sacrificing your back end since you are using the field as the 12th defender. I am really curious what the pull out of the portal and how spring ball goes because I think that will tell us a lot in how the defense will be constructed for next season.

Can Ratcliffe play star? If we get better at safety elsewhere?

beerad12man said:

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Can Ratcliffe play star? If we get better at safety elsewhere?

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Not really, Ratcliffe is quite good coming from depth in run support and is good in coverage when he isn't in a run/pass conflict situation. He gets lost up when he is trying to fill through the mess of the front in close proximity.

beerad12man said:

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Maybe so regarding the reverse issue, but…

In 2018, our starting dl had 24.5 sacks and 43 tackles for loss.

This year, our starting 4 got 9 sacks and 29 tfls

I'd take their pressure any day

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What I highlighted is what I remember and I just remember us being extremely stout on 1st and 2nd down which makes sense we had that many sacks... because if you can stone the run you earn the right to rush the passer.

And has played Star the entire time & a multi-yr starter. One yr to play. Plug & play and allows grooming of Myles Davis & Rashad Johnson.

I'm sure that played a part. But we couldn't get home on 3rd and long this year, either. We had plenty of chances. 9 vs 24.5 sacks is more than just about 3rd and long imho. And they weren't coverage sacks as our corner play was lacking.

Those guys all played with better technique and within the scheme from my untrained eye.

There are a couple guys already in the portal that fit the bill for a typical Star safety. Ok state kid and Louisville kid I believe. And we do have a few young guys on the roster who have the build to develop into that position as well.

btglow87 said:

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There are a couple guys already in the portal that fit the bill for a typical Star safety. Ok state kid and Louisville kid I believe. And we do have a few young guys on the roster who have the build to develop into that position as well.

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Would you be surprised by a young guy on the roster being a high-level STAR next season?

There were signs Antonio Johnson was going to be great his first year on campus.

I don't like 4-2. 4-3 for me. Keep it simple.

Nobody bases out of a 4-3 anymore. Not bama. Not Georgia. Not Texas

beerad12man said:

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I'm sure that played a part. But we couldn't get home on 3rd and long this year, either. We had plenty of chances. 9 vs 24.5 sacks is more than just about 3rd and long imho. And they weren't coverage sacks as our corner play was lacking.

Those guys all played with better technique and within the scheme from my untrained eye.

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One other thing about that first year under Elko was the safety play with Wilson and them was quite good which is in pretty stark contrast to this years group.

I actually think the corners were fine for the most part this year. Nickel coverage with BJ was quite good.. Jaydon not so much. We struggled mostly at the 2 deep safety positions and linebacker position in coverage. A lot of mesh concepts and climb routes got us this year. Also we played a lot of MOD (Man On Demand) and MEG (Man Everywhere he Goes) with the corners this year... mainly because we had the safeties (particularly the weak side safety) so involved in the run support game. But all these things are tied together, when the Nickel's tool box is shrunk because of the personnel at that position, the burden is shifted to other places in the defense.

Dex_Mick_Bear said:

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btglow87 said:

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There are a couple guys already in the portal that fit the bill for a typical Star safety. Ok state kid and Louisville kid I believe. And we do have a few young guys on the roster who have the build to develop into that position as well.

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Would you be surprised by a young guy on the roster being a high-level STAR next season?

There were signs Antonio Johnson was going to be great his first year on campus.

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Myles Davis could absolutely be that guy in my opinion.

beerad12man said:

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Nobody bases out of a 4-3 anymore. Not bama. Not Georgia. Not Texas

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Why?

Best thread in a LONG TIME!

Not enough speed on the field for 3 WR sets, which is what 95% of offense base out of.

unless you find that 6-3 230 pound LB who runs a sub 4.5 and can cover slot WRs. But that's essentially the "star" being discussed here. Tough to find. AJ was 6-3 205, not 230. But still good enough in run support and coverage.

btglow87 said:

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beerad12man said:

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I'm sure that played a part. But we couldn't get home on 3rd and long this year, either. We had plenty of chances. 9 vs 24.5 sacks is more than just about 3rd and long imho. And they weren't coverage sacks as our corner play was lacking.

Those guys all played with better technique and within the scheme from my untrained eye.

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One other thing about that first year under Elko was the safety play with Wilson and them was quite good which is in pretty stark contrast to this years group.

I actually think the corners were fine for the most part this year. Nickel coverage with BJ was quite good.. Jaydon not so much. We struggled mostly at the 2 deep safety positions and linebacker position in coverage. A lot of mesh concepts and climb routes got us this year. Also we played a lot of MOD (Man On Demand) and MEG (Man Everywhere he Goes) with the corners this year... mainly because we had the safeties (particularly the weak side safety) so involved in the run support game. But all these things are tied together, when the Nickel's tool box is shrunk because of the personnel at that position, the burden is shifted to other places in the defense.

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100% agree. The nickel/star, LB, and S play in 2018 was much better. I'd say DT with Madubiuke/Mack, too. Mack, Madubiuke, Alaka, Dodson, Wilson, all good up the middle. Keke set the edge well.

They just did a lot of things right in the run game.

beerad12man said:

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Not enough speed on the field for 3 WR sets, which is what 95% of offense base out of.

unless you find that 6-3 230 pound LB who runs a sub 4.5 and can cover slot WRs. But that's essentially the "star" being discussed here. Tough to find. AJ was 6-3 205, not 230. But still good enough in run support and coverage.

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I don't think our nickel runs a true sub 4.5, nor did they cover well IMO. We just need outside linebackers like we had with Jackie and RC.

That ain't working in today's game. Yes, Mayes was much faster than 99% of most OLBers you can find and better in coverage.

And Chappell, if healthy, would be significantly faster than that.

Again, Georgia, Bama, Texas, don't run a 4-3 base. Neither will Elko. Ever.

We did not get good run support for much of the season, especially the last third. I understand what you are saying. I don't think any defensive set is effective without good pressure on the quarterback, and we were definitely lacking there. Coaches never break out of the herd, until some maverick does and establishes a new framework.
Edited for spelling

MagnumLoad said:

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We did not get good run support for much of the season, especially the last third. I understand what you are saying. I don't think any defensive set is effective without good pressure on the quarterback, and we were definitely lacking there. Coaches never break out of the herd, until some maverick does and establishes a new framework.
Edited for spelling

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The thing is if you have a Star who, in certain situations, can act as a typically Sam Backer the playbook really opens up from an alignment/assignment standpoint. For instances against South Carolina, they keep running the weak side pin and pull concept.....sealing off our end and the next help on the edge was the safety. .... well if you have a good Star you can revise your front (put the 5 and 3 strong with the 1 and 5 to the weak) and kick the Mike and Will weak (Mike plays weak side A gap and Will plays weak side B gap. If the Will is hipped behind the end and the O-line and receiver all block down... closing his first responsibility then the Will is right there right now to cut that play off and its dead in the water.