Can someone please explain the differences between Scourton's (WDE?) and Stewart's (SDE?) positions? Also, where the depth chart currently stands with them?

Thank you in advance.

Differences in responsibilities and ideal body types for each.

WDE are usually smaller quicker DE that are better at pass rush and line up on the weaksode of the field (usually no TE) while SDE are usually bigger DE

We play a weak Eagle front Nic was the side with the 3tech next to him (DT outside shade of the guard) Stewart was on the side with the 1tech (DT outside shade of the center his way).

This alignment is also what every team attacked. This season we were stuck in the weak eagle 4-2-5 front. Which means we are going to try to defend a run game of 7 guys with 6... that is a hard ask against a talented team and our adjustment this season was to make the weak safety step up and fill and that didn't work vs South Carolina. The ran weak side pin and pull about 18 times for about 200 rushing. If we are going to be a 4-2-5 defense without too many adjustments ..... then we need to go find an Antonio Johnson type of player... that can fill the "Star" position. This year we didn't have one... so we played a 4-2-5 with a true nickel and the issue there is...... a true cover nickel isn't going to be able to play the C gap like a sam linebacker vs a pro set... We had BJ try to do that the other night and that's just not fair to that kid ... to ask him to do something he wasn't recruited to do. So we are either going to have to adjust the scheme to fit our personnel better or find a player in the portal, high school, or develop one this offseason who can fit that missing position. Every good team we played attacked the nickel and the weak side run because of our inability to bump the backers weak since they had to play strong side run... because the nickel was pass first in responsibility. Once teams found that inflexibility they made us pay for it over and over

So Scourton isn't necessarily the ideal size for his position, since he's Stewart's size, but is such a beast that he gets the job done?

Impressive!

btglow87 said:

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This alignment is also what every team attacked. This season we were stuck in the weak eagle 4-2-5 front. Which means we are going to try to defend a run game of 7 guys with 6... that is a hard ask against a talented team and our adjustment this season was to make the weak safety step up and fill and that didn't work vs South Carolina. The ran weak side pin and pull about 18 times for about 200 rushing. If we are going to be a 4-2-5 defense without too many adjustments ..... then we need to go find an Antonio Johnson type to player... that can fill the "Star" position. This year we didn't have one... so we played a 4-2-5 with a true nickel and the issue there is...... a true cover nickel isn't going to be able to play the C gap like a sam linebacker vs a pro set... We had BJ try to do that the other night and that's just not fair to that kid ... to ask him to do something he wasn't recruited to do. So we are either going to have to adjust the scheme to fit our personnel better or find a player in the portal, high school, or develop one this offseason who can fit that missing position. Every good team we played attacked the nickel and the weak side run because of our inability to bump the backers weak since they had to play strong side run... because the nickel was pass first in responsibility. Once teams found that inflexibility they made us pay for it over and over

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Was "Star" the position De'Ricky Wright was pegged for this off-season?

Dex_Mick_Bear said:

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btglow87 said:

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This alignment is also what every team attacked. This season we were stuck in the weak eagle 4-2-5 front. Which means we are going to try to defend a run game of 7 guys with 6... that is a hard ask against a talented team and our adjustment this season was to make the weak safety step up and fill and that didn't work vs South Carolina. The ran weak side pin and pull about 18 times for about 200 rushing. If we are going to be a 4-2-5 defense without too many adjustments ..... then we need to go find an Antonio Johnson type of player... that can fill the "Star" position. This year we didn't have one... so we played a 4-2-5 with a true nickel and the issue there is...... a true cover nickel isn't going to be able to play the C gap like a sam linebacker vs a pro set... We had BJ try to do that the other night and that's just not fair to that kid ... to ask him to do something he wasn't recruited to do. So we are either going to have to adjust the scheme to fit our personnel better or find a player in the portal, high school, or develop one this offseason who can fit that missing position. Every good team we played attacked the nickel and the weak side run because of our inability to bump the backers weak since they had to play strong side run... because the nickel was pass first in responsibility. Once teams found that inflexibility they made us pay for it over and over

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Was "Star" the position De'Ricky Wright was pegged for this off-season?

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Yes he could of been that.

Wish we could have gotten Jonah Williams who sounded perfect for that role. Even worse that he picked tu.

Are you anticipating quality "Star" guys in the portal this year?

btglow87 said:

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This alignment is also what every team attacked. This season we were stuck in the weak eagle 4-2-5 front. Which means we are going to try to defend a run game of 7 guys with 6... that is a hard ask against a talented team and our adjustment this season was to make the weak safety step up and fill and that didn't work vs South Carolina. The ran weak side pin and pull about 18 times for about 200 rushing. If we are going to be a 4-2-5 defense without too many adjustments ..... then we need to go find an Antonio Johnson type to player... that can fill the "Star" position. This year we didn't have one... so we played a 4-2-5 with a true nickel and the issue there is...... a true cover nickel isn't going to be able to play the C gap like a sam linebacker vs a pro set... We had BJ try to do that the other night and that's just not fair to that kid ... to ask him to do something he wasn't recruited to do. So we are either going to have to adjust the scheme to fit our personnel better or find a player in the portal, high school, or develop one this offseason who can fit that missing position. Every good team we played attacked the nickel and the weak side run because of our inability to bump the backers weak since they had to play strong side run... because the nickel was pass first in responsibility. Once teams found that inflexibility they made us pay for it over and over

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I completely missed that about the star position. You're 100% right we never truly had one on the field. Uncharacteristic of Elko's defenses while he was here.

Myles Davis looks like the future there.

My first thought as well.

vander54 said:

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My first thought as well.

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It was only one play, and I can't remember when it was. But he absolutely laid the wood to a RB in the hole earlier in the season. I really hope he figured it out soon.

Dex_Mick_Bear said:

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So Scourton isn't necessarily the ideal size for his position, since he's Stewart's size, but is such a beast that he gets the job done?

Impressive!

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Not sure I'd say he got the job done…

vander54 said:

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btglow87 said:

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This alignment is also what every team attacked. This season we were stuck in the weak eagle 4-2-5 front. Which means we are going to try to defend a run game of 7 guys with 6... that is a hard ask against a talented team and our adjustment this season was to make the weak safety step up and fill and that didn't work vs South Carolina. The ran weak side pin and pull about 18 times for about 200 rushing. If we are going to be a 4-2-5 defense without too many adjustments ..... then we need to go find an Antonio Johnson type to player... that can fill the "Star" position. This year we didn't have one... so we played a 4-2-5 with a true nickel and the issue there is...... a true cover nickel isn't going to be able to play the C gap like a sam linebacker vs a pro set... We had BJ try to do that the other night and that's just not fair to that kid ... to ask him to do something he wasn't recruited to do. So we are either going to have to adjust the scheme to fit our personnel better or find a player in the portal, high school, or develop one this offseason who can fit that missing position. Every good team we played attacked the nickel and the weak side run because of our inability to bump the backers weak since they had to play strong side run... because the nickel was pass first in responsibility. Once teams found that inflexibility they made us pay for it over and over

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I completely missed that about the star position. You're 100% right we never truly had one on the field. Uncharacteristic of Elko's defenses while he was here.

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This is the problem..... if the passing strength is to the defensives right then the Nickel would be traveling over that way (the defensive right). The Mike would be over the weakside(left guard) and the End has to play the edge and contain. The only other help that way is the weak safety who is lined up at 10-11 yds deep (Ratcliffe). That is why the weakside pin and pull was so effective against us vs South Carolina. Because we were so predictable in our front and run defenders it made it easy to scheme up against it. Sark would do a lot of motion into trips ... if the backers bumped to help .... he ran it (4-1 box) if the backers stayed he had them throw the slip. If you have a true rover/star nickel back who can play the run like a Sam backer... then you can flip the 3tech strong bump the backers weak (having the Will hipped behind the end) and have a more tradtional 4-3 look without switching out the personnel.

Can Sylla replace Stewart if he goes pro or is he too small?

If not, who are the SDEs on the roster?

btglow87 said:

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vander54 said:

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btglow87 said:

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This alignment is also what every team attacked. This season we were stuck in the weak eagle 4-2-5 front. Which means we are going to try to defend a run game of 7 guys with 6... that is a hard ask against a talented team and our adjustment this season was to make the weak safety step up and fill and that didn't work vs South Carolina. The ran weak side pin and pull about 18 times for about 200 rushing. If we are going to be a 4-2-5 defense without too many adjustments ..... then we need to go find an Antonio Johnson type to player... that can fill the "Star" position. This year we didn't have one... so we played a 4-2-5 with a true nickel and the issue there is...... a true cover nickel isn't going to be able to play the C gap like a sam linebacker vs a pro set... We had BJ try to do that the other night and that's just not fair to that kid ... to ask him to do something he wasn't recruited to do. So we are either going to have to adjust the scheme to fit our personnel better or find a player in the portal, high school, or develop one this offseason who can fit that missing position. Every good team we played attacked the nickel and the weak side run because of our inability to bump the backers weak since they had to play strong side run... because the nickel was pass first in responsibility. Once teams found that inflexibility they made us pay for it over and over

---

I completely missed that about the star position. You're 100% right we never truly had one on the field. Uncharacteristic of Elko's defenses while he was here.

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This is the problem..... if the passing strength is to the defensives right then the Nickel would be traveling over that way (the defensive right). The Mike would be over the weakside(left guard) and the End has to play the edge and contain. The only other help that way is the weak safety who is lined up at 10-11 yds deep (Ratcliffe). That is why the weakside pin and pull was so effective against us vs South Carolina. Because we were so predictable in our front and run defenders it made it easy to scheme up against it. Sark would do a lot of motion into trips ... if the backers bumped to help .... he ran it (4-1 box) if the backers stayed he had them throw the slip. If you have a true rover/star nickel back who can play the run like a Sam backer... then you can flip the 3tech strong bump the backers weak (having the Will hipped behind the end) and have a more tradtional 4-3 look without switching out the personnel.

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Here is a good depiction of it vs trips. Yes the weakside edge is accounted for but behind him and outside is nothin (the corner is pass first so he doesn't count) the only other help weak is the safety who is deep. The reason we did this was because we didn't want to ask the Nickel to play run first responbilities but because of that it made us very limited in adjusting upfront.

jt16 said:

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vander54 said:

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My first thought as well.

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It was only one play, and I can't remember when it was. But he absolutely laid the wood to a RB in the hole earlier in the season. I really hope he figured it out soon.

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It was against McNeese and yes he has the right type of build and instincts to fit the bill for that position.

Is Kendal Daniels at Okie Lite a "Star" or just a big Safety?

Dex_Mick_Bear said:

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Is Kendal Daniels at Okie Lite a "Star" or just a big Safety?

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Ya he would be that type of guy in this defense

btglow87 said:

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Dex_Mick_Bear said:

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Is Kendal Daniels at Okie Lite a "Star" or just a big Safety?

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Ya he would be that type of guy in this defense

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He's got 1 year of eligibility left. Would be a good pick up.

I wonder if there's any bad blood when was here before?

Best thread I've seen in a while. Real football talk.


So I assume having Chappell at N would've screwed us as well this year? Does he have a clear role in this defense going forward if Myles Davis steps up at N?


And assuming these guys go to the draft, are these the likely replacements?

For S. Stewart:

-Dealyn Evans
-Solomon Williams (assuming he bulks up w/o losing speed)
-Kendall Jackson

For N. Scourton:

-Rylan Kennedy
-Cashius Howell
-Solomon Williams
-Malick Sylla

Does having a high-level Star allow you to play with 2 coverage Safeties or does one still need to be good at run support?

I'm not sure Elko wants the 5th db to be the type of player that y'all are describing. I remember in an interview or press conference earlier this season (may have been preseason) he said Bryce Anderson was moving to one of the safety spots because he's not a true cover the slot nickel. Sounds like he wants a 3rd corner there at the 5th db spot.

"Strong side", "Left side", "Strong side"…

Watch Remember the Titans to learn

Dex_Mick_Bear said:

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Does having a high-level Star allow you to play with 2 coverage Safeties or does one still need to be good at run support?

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Not even in the peak earlier 2000s Tampa Bay Bucs ran Cover 2 that much but on third downs. Cover 2 is always weak vs the run because your support from the safeties is non existent and your corners as the edge force are far away hortizontally. That's why I like quarter quarter half with 4-2 5 because it essentially becomes a 4-4 with two overhangs being the short side corner and the Star/nickel to the wide side, it makes you tough vs the run while also still being in a coverage that uses the field as the 12th defender to the shortside... also out of that look you can show 2 and bait and switch to full cover 4 to 4/2 and roll to 3 and zone blitz behind it... in other words the QB has no clue what is coming and from where its coming from. In addtion he doesn't really know what coverage you are in until post snap.. it gives you the advantage. But to be able to do that you need that Star guy who can be that force contain strong to balance out the front and allow the front to play both an Under and Over look. Darrell Dickey's late father Jim DIckey (who help pioneer that scheme (4-2-5)) told me before a game when I was coaching what the rationale was behind developing that scheme... what he said was, " I knew I could find 10 guys good at one job and I could allow them to do that one job in almost every situation if I could find that one stud who could be my Rover (his Nickel)." When you do have that one guy who can move around and be that hybrid the stress of that position gets passed off to many others..... really hope we develop 2 guys who can play that position this offseason because if we do... the defense will look much more dynamic.

Think of the star as a hybrid LB/DB. Obviously very basic description

Aggie_Boomin 21 said:

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I'm not sure Elko wants the 5th db to be the type of player that y'all are describing. I remember in an interview or press conference earlier this season (may have been preseason) he said Bryce Anderson was moving to one of the safety spots because he's not a true cover the slot nickel. Sounds like he wants a 3rd corner there at the 5th db spot.

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I think this year he realized he didn't have the right personnel for that position. They made the decision based on the fact that they had more cover nickels from a depth stand point and figured maybe they could hold up vs the run in the weak eagle and just have the weak side safety help to Nic's side... I mean for the most part it decently worked. The problem was once teams started scheming and using formation to multiplulate what they wanted from an alignment standpoint and getting a numbers advantage and then realizing we were stuck in that look it started to become a real problem and the more film people got of that.... the more of a problem it became.

What Antonio Johnson gave us was an edge player that could cover, blitz, and stop the run. Very difficult for offenses to account for a guy like that. I said on twitter we desperately need to get a guy like that to make the 4-2-5 work. It was painful to see tu run 2 TEs and us sit there playing 4-2-5. We had no shot. Really needed to shift to a 4-3. I think we eventually got there, but it was LATE.

I also have questions about our LBs and their ability to be physical at the point of attack. They seem a little undersized to really attack interior linemen in run support. Especially with the lack of holding calls from the SEC.

Kramer said:

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What Antonio Johnson gave us was an edge player that could cover, blitz, and stop the run. Very difficult for offenses to account for a guy like that. I said on twitter we desperately need to get a guy like that to make the 4-2-5 work. It was painful to see tu run 2 TEs and us sit there playing 4-2-5. We had no shot. Really needed to shift to a 4-3. I think we eventually got there, but it was LATE.

I also have questions about our LBs and their ability to be physical at the point of attack. They seem a little undersized to really attack interior linemen in run support. Especially with the lack of holding calls from the SEC.

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Another time we really got stuck and adjusted too slow was vs Auburn. Anytime we did a green dog (man free blitz) and they hit a big gain... they sprinted to the line did double wide twins (put the twins on the sideline) and ran zone dive. Because we were in man free scooby had to go out and cover #2 of the bunch weak.. which put us in a 4-1 with a gap unaccounted for. Great scheme/play by them ... and it made us look foolish.

Dex_Mick_Bear said:

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btglow87 said:

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Dex_Mick_Bear said:

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Is Kendal Daniels at Okie Lite a "Star" or just a big Safety?

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Ya he would be that type of guy in this defense

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He's got 1 year of eligibility left. Would be a good pick up.

I wonder if there's any bad blood when was here before?

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Bump.

In the portal.

btglow87 said:

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Kramer said:

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What Antonio Johnson gave us was an edge player that could cover, blitz, and stop the run. Very difficult for offenses to account for a guy like that. I said on twitter we desperately need to get a guy like that to make the 4-2-5 work. It was painful to see tu run 2 TEs and us sit there playing 4-2-5. We had no shot. Really needed to shift to a 4-3. I think we eventually got there, but it was LATE.

I also have questions about our LBs and their ability to be physical at the point of attack. They seem a little undersized to really attack interior linemen in run support. Especially with the lack of holding calls from the SEC.

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Another time we really got stuck and adjusted too slow was vs Auburn. Anytime we did a green dog (man free blitz) and they hit a big gain... they sprinted to the line did double wide twins (put the twins on the sideline) and ran zone dive. Because we were in man free scooby had to go out and cover #2 of the bunch weak.. which put us in a 4-1 with a gap unaccounted for. Great scheme/play by them ... and it made us look foolish.

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Please post more.

btglow87 said:

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This alignment is also what every team attacked. This season we were stuck in the weak eagle 4-2-5 front. Which means we are going to try to defend a run game of 7 guys with 6... that is a hard ask against a talented team and our adjustment this season was to make the weak safety step up and fill and that didn't work vs South Carolina. The ran weak side pin and pull about 18 times for about 200 rushing. If we are going to be a 4-2-5 defense without too many adjustments ..... then we need to go find an Antonio Johnson type of player... that can fill the "Star" position. This year we didn't have one... so we played a 4-2-5 with a true nickel and the issue there is...... a true cover nickel isn't going to be able to play the C gap like a sam linebacker vs a pro set... We had BJ try to do that the other night and that's just not fair to that kid ... to ask him to do something he wasn't recruited to do. So we are either going to have to adjust the scheme to fit our personnel better or find a player in the portal, high school, or develop one this offseason who can fit that missing position. Every good team we played attacked the nickel and the weak side run because of our inability to bump the backers weak since they had to play strong side run... because the nickel was pass first in responsibility. Once teams found that inflexibility they made us pay for it over and over

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How come you know this and not our multi-million $ coaching staff???