Not Coach Jimbo said:

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The Porkchop Express said:

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Here’s the penalty that extended the eventual game-winning drive for BYU

This was a 4th down sack to end the game, but called defensive holding

Announcers say “really good call” but that is very debatable pic.twitter.com/RGpw9Qy8nA

— Pick Six Previews (@PickSixPreviews) November 10, 2024

The call in question.

If it's us in blue and the sips in red and we're trying to drive for a game-winning field goal, is it holding? DB seems to grab WR once he changes direction on the route and continues having hands on him as he takes off.

Last 5 minutes of the game are below. A few observations

Utah's AD talking a lot of crap for a team that failed to score a single point after halftime.
First play of the drive should have been a Utah interception but 2 guys whiffed.
Utah coach so incensed by holding call that he didn't seem to notice BYU was draining the clock for the game-winning kick while his team had 2 timeouts left. Utes didn't call a timeout until there were 55 seconds left, guaranteeing themselves no time for any sort of offensive counter.

If there is some sort of ref bias here, what exactly is anyone gaining by BYU making the playoff?
BYU's massive national following that will crank up the TV numbers?
BYU's incredible traveling fan base that wants to get out on the road and go to other stadiums and city centers where they won't buy a single alcoholic beverage or soft drink because of their religious beliefs?

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In regards to what are the refs gaining question.

Both teams are in the big 12, if one makes the playoff, they get a huge payout and notoriety for the conference.

Protecting the only legitimate top 10 team the big 12 has is probably worth the big 12 doing.

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The big 12 champion makes the playoffs regardless of record with a guaranteed top 4 spot and a home second round playoff game. So that theory doesn't hold water.

All I have to say is watch what Utah has to say about it. They got cheated. They're mad about it. I'm curious as to what long term implications this might br for the Big 12.

If I was the new guy and got robbed to further my unexpectedly successfully rival, I'd burn it all down

Don't win a lot of games with 0 points in the second half.

rootube said:

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He is Ass My Dude said:

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Yep, more than enough money generated by CFB to train and pay refs like professionals. I believe they are currently paid $20 and hour. These guys should not be weekend warriors.

They should never EVER have any affiliation with a school or conf on the field. Seems like common sense so I can only assume things are the way they are for the porpos eof controlling outcomes.

Big12 did the same crap to Houston last year to ensure sippy got the win.

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I have a shock for you. Paying referees won't magically make them never miss a call. Those guys who ref big time college ball have tons of experience and overall are very good. Plus the guys I knew who reffed back in the day made very good money outside refereeing games. Most of them did it because they thought it was fun.

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Go look the NBA and Tim Donaghy. It's not about never missing a call or blatantly only calling fouls/penalties on one team, it's about being selective on calls that are made and when. No one plays a perfectly clean game. If you wanted to nitpick, you could call them way more often. If a ref wants to influence a game, all they need to do is pick and choose what they'll ignore and what they'll be really stringent on and when.

Not Coach Jimbo said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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I just love all of these threads about games being fixed by the conferences/ESPN/officials/etc yet there has yet to be a whistle blower even though a fix on this scale would require a lot of people in each conference.

It would also be criminal as fixing games is a felony in this country so how many officials do you guys think want to risk serious jail time?

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Tim Donaghy was openly betting on the games he was reffing for years before he got caught... as an NBA ref.

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And that was only a couple of people involved yet it was uncovered so thanks for proving the point. This would be conspiracies involving dozens of people in multiple conferences.

I am not saying there isn't a corrupt official but to have coordinated, league wide actions and it to not be quickly uncovered is comical.

Kansas Kid said:

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Not Coach Jimbo said:

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Kansas Kid said:

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I just love all of these threads about games being fixed by the conferences/ESPN/officials/etc yet there has yet to be a whistle blower even though a fix on this scale would require a lot of people in each conference.

It would also be criminal as fixing games is a felony in this country so how many officials do you guys think want to risk serious jail time?

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Tim Donaghy was openly betting on the games he was reffing for years before he got caught... as an NBA ref.

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And that was only a couple of people involved yet it was uncovered so thanks for proving the point. This would be conspiracies involving dozens of people in multiple conferences.

I am not saying there isn't a corrupt official but to have coordinated, league wide actions and it to not be quickly uncovered is comical.

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Let me guess, Kansas city politics is clean as a whistle?

If cartels can corrupt our borders and border towns, then college officials have been even more corrupted since everybody knows exactly who they are

It used to be a funny joke against Aggie basketball that they were against us because we really weren't much of anything.
Then it's just denying.

Does the call go down to the officials on which one is going to throw the flag as it happens m?

Or is that decided at the league offices ahead of time?

Panama Red said:

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Does the call go down to the officials on which one is going to throw the flag as it happens m?

Or is that decided at the league offices ahead of time?

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Is your question as to where the corrupted call originates?

No, as the premise is the league is setting it up so they originated it.

My question is when/how it's relayed to the officials.

Do they tell them Friday to make sure BYU wins?

Or does someone radio in during the game: "this is it, throw a flag this drive so BYU wins"

My real problem is people declaring utah wins the game of not for that call. If you believe the game was over at that point, you need to watch about 10,000 more games.

You should also blindly visit 25 other schools message boards where you will see the exact same weekly threads and posts about those teams getting screwed by the refs.

I'm sure there are some crooked refs but most people are simply too stupid to have some closely guarded grand conspiracy work out.

After seeing the replay, the real question is how did they call the rest of the game. Were they 'letting them play' or were they calling it tight?

If they were letting them play all game and then chose to call it in that situation, then it's pretty sketchy

Utah entered the game on a 4 game big 12 losing streak including defeats to houston and Arizona. You're telling me there is zero chance they fumble a snap or a hand-off or have to settle for a field goal that puts them up by only 5?

Sort of like when the FBI only charges one "side"?

The Porkchop Express said:

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My real problem is people declaring utah wins the game of not for that call. If you believe the game was over at that point, you need to watch about 10,000 more games.

You should also blindly visit 25 other schools message boards where you will see the exact same weekly threads and posts about those teams getting screwed by the refs.

I'm sure there are some crooked refs but most people are simply too stupid to have some closely guarded grand conspiracy work out.

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Umm they'd have it inside the one and 1:35 left with a 2 point lead

ABATTBQ11 said:

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rootube said:

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He is Ass My Dude said:

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Yep, more than enough money generated by CFB to train and pay refs like professionals. I believe they are currently paid $20 and hour. These guys should not be weekend warriors.

They should never EVER have any affiliation with a school or conf on the field. Seems like common sense so I can only assume things are the way they are for the porpos eof controlling outcomes.

Big12 did the same crap to Houston last year to ensure sippy got the win.

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I have a shock for you. Paying referees won't magically make them never miss a call. Those guys who ref big time college ball have tons of experience and overall are very good. Plus the guys I knew who reffed back in the day made very good money outside refereeing games. Most of them did it because they thought it was fun.

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Go look the NBA and Tim Donaghy. It's not about never missing a call or blatantly only calling fouls/penalties on one team, it's about being selective on calls that are made and when. No one plays a perfectly clean game. If you wanted to nitpick, you could call them way more often. If a ref wants to influence a game, all they need to do is pick and choose what they'll ignore and what they'll be really stringent on and when.

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Is paying refs going to fix wild conspiracy theories?

The Porkchop Express said:

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Not Coach Jimbo said:

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The Porkchop Express said:

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Here’s the penalty that extended the eventual game-winning drive for BYU

This was a 4th down sack to end the game, but called defensive holding

Announcers say “really good call” but that is very debatable pic.twitter.com/RGpw9Qy8nA

— Pick Six Previews (@PickSixPreviews) November 10, 2024

The call in question.

If it's us in blue and the sips in red and we're trying to drive for a game-winning field goal, is it holding? DB seems to grab WR once he changes direction on the route and continues having hands on him as he takes off.

Last 5 minutes of the game are below. A few observations

Utah's AD talking a lot of crap for a team that failed to score a single point after halftime.
First play of the drive should have been a Utah interception but 2 guys whiffed.
Utah coach so incensed by holding call that he didn't seem to notice BYU was draining the clock for the game-winning kick while his team had 2 timeouts left. Utes didn't call a timeout until there were 55 seconds left, guaranteeing themselves no time for any sort of offensive counter.

If there is some sort of ref bias here, what exactly is anyone gaining by BYU making the playoff?
BYU's massive national following that will crank up the TV numbers?
BYU's incredible traveling fan base that wants to get out on the road and go to other stadiums and city centers where they won't buy a single alcoholic beverage or soft drink because of their religious beliefs?

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In regards to what are the refs gaining question.

Both teams are in the big 12, if one makes the playoff, they get a huge payout and notoriety for the conference.

Protecting the only legitimate top 10 team the big 12 has is probably worth the big 12 doing.

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The big 12 champion makes the playoffs regardless of record with a guaranteed top 4 spot and a home second round playoff game. So that theory doesn't hold water.

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It actually does hold water. If the big 12 champion is u defeated and highly ranked, gives an argument for a second team and possibly 3rd team in. If BYU lost and Colorado or anyone else beats them in the big 12 conference championship game, that's their only shot of 2 teams in tournament possibly. BYU wins out they could be ranked as high as 5 or 6 and the championship game loss might still get them in.

Plenty of water held, just gotta look at revenue and available seats at the table.
https://businessofcollegesports.com/college-football-playoff-payouts/

If anyone saw the OSU/PSU game, the OSU defensive backs were holding onto the PSU receivers the entire game. It was never called. Many of them were worse than this 4th down holding call.

The only thing that matters is being somewhere in the top 40 or so in revenue and/or already being in one of the two SEC or big 10.

Everything is rigged for more money. BYU in 2023 was around 106 million so the big 12 is trying to increase its overall value, just like every other conference.

The University of Utah is the smaller, secular university in SLC compared to the big, religious school in the capital of the Mormon faith. UU can't stand BYU, and often gets treated like little brother. A loss like this is just as maddening as our last game against the sips.

rootube said:

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Ghost91 said:

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rootube said:

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I have a shock for you. Paying referees won't magically make them never miss a call. Those guys who ref big time college ball have tons of experience and overall are very good. Plus the guys I knew who reffed back in the day made very good money outside refereeing games. Most of them did it because they thought it was fun.

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I don't think anyone on this thread is talking about "missed" calls…

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OK. Fair enough. Please explain what we need to fix by paying refs. I love these meltdown threads by people who complain about refs who have never called a game in their entire life.

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I don't have a collection of links to terrible calls to paste here, but I guess I'm referring to the 'infamous' calls that we've all seen that simply defy any logical explanation (the non-first down spot & the non-TD spot against poor UofH in their game against tu last year: the Auburn non-horse collar call on Johnny in '12, etc.).

As far as 'what we need to do', to borrow from the gun debate, I guess I'm all for "Common Sense Officiating 'Laws'" .
Seems like it's just asking for trouble to let an official work a game involving a school he or an immediate family member attended - whether it's intentionally trying to fix the outcome, unconscious bias (I admit I'd be guilty as hell of this), or even just the PERCEPTION of bias.
Best example I can think of on the 'perception of bias' point is the PI call against Trent Hunter in the final game against tu in 2011. We can argue that call for eternity, but when people are able to find a pic online of the Ref sporting a longhorn sweatshirt 2 minutes after the play, you're gonna definitely have that perception. Why even flirt with that? I'd be fine with no officials working games involving a team from a state they live in/have lived in.

And as far as "people complaining about Refs when they've never officiated a game in their life, get out of here with that. Reminds me of the people who hate movie critics because "OMG then YOU try to make a movie and see how hard it is!!".
I've never officiated a game in my life, but that doesn't disqualify me from raising my eyebrows when I see a Ref staring right at a Left Tackle as he chokeholds a defender and drags him to the ground

Watched Colorado/Tech yesterday. There were blatant no calls and botched reviews in Colorado's favor. I don't know that it would have changed the outcome, but they did affect the game.

I honestly wish they would just get rid of reviews if the incompetence isn't improved. I can't remember which game it was (possibly LSU/Alabama), but there was a TD reviewed. Any moron could tell you that the player's elbow/forearm was down before the goal line. They upheld the touchdown. Absolute junk!

As big as NCAAF has gotten, I believe they should nationalize the referee base. It won't eliminate bad calls, but it should eliminate the perception that the conference that selects the officials has a financial interest in the outcome, because each conference does. And it certainly would reduce the perception that individual officials have a private motivation.

The money is clearly there to support more of a national base. College football needs to pour a lot more money into supporting, developing, evaluating, and paying the officials.


One thing that won't disappear is that there always will be fans that believe the NBA or NFL has a rooting interest to get teams like the Chiefs or Lakers or Warriors to the championship games. Even with a national officiating assignment, there would still be that in college football.

Conferences who benefit from their top teams staying clean or unbeaten should not be assigning the officials, even Mangino ranted against that.

TAMUallen said:

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Yall know how I feel about the SC game but gosh it's too obvious across games.

We keep seeing officials putting themselves in to games to directly protect their interests on who goes to the CFP

NCAA, you need to stop this crap already.

So tired of some holds being holds, some interference being interference, some targeting being targeting, some plays being reviewed some not, some spots reviewed some not. Etc etc

There MUST be an independent and impartial group to review what is going on. It is ruining the game and is so blatantly obvious

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Not rigged. Just awful refs. Really awful refs

The way to end targeting is to do away with helmets

Isn't there a scenario where the big 12 doesn't get a team in?

Say BYU wins out and loses conference championship game?

dixichkn said:

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If I thought there was even a remote chance we would ever be the beneficiary of one of those crap calls I wouldn't have quite as much issue with it. But I know we'd get hosed 1000 x out of 1000

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Literally every fan base in the country feels and says the exact same thing…

BBRex said:

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The University of Utah is the smaller, secular university in SLC compared to the big, religious school in the capital of the Mormon faith. UU can't stand BYU, and often gets treated like little brother. A loss like this is just as maddening as our last game against the sips.

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What? They are the same size. They're both Mormon, although one is the state school. BYU is in Provo.

UU has a $700M research budget and a $1.6B endowment. BYU is $3B.

In athletics, Utah all the way over the last 25 years.

Nino Brown said:

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Isn't there a scenario where the big 12 doesn't get a team in?

Say BYU wins out and loses conference championship game?

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That gets two Big 12 teams in.

Faustus said:

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Nino Brown said:

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Isn't there a scenario where the big 12 doesn't get a team in?

Say BYU wins out and loses conference championship game?

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That gets two Big 12 teams in.

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With new system, power 4 conference champions get in no matter what and are a top 4 seed.

94chem said:

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BBRex said:

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The University of Utah is the smaller, secular university in SLC compared to the big, religious school in the capital of the Mormon faith. UU can't stand BYU, and often gets treated like little brother. A loss like this is just as maddening as our last game against the sips.

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What? They are the same size. They're both Mormon, although one is the state school. BYU is in Provo.

UU has a $700M research budget and a $1.6B endowment. BYU is $3B.

In athletics, Utah all the way over the last 25 years.

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You're right about BYU being 45-minutes south of SLC in Provo. My bad. And I do realized that they are comparable in enrollment now, but (and, yes, I'm an old) for a long time, UU was a smaller school. In the early '80s, UU was looking at about 15,000 students compared to BYU's 27,000 enrollment cap. And, while UU is going to have a lot of Mormon students just based on location, UU was the school for the area's non-Mormon population.

Faustus said:

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Nino Brown said:

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Isn't there a scenario where the big 12 doesn't get a team in?

Say BYU wins out and loses conference championship game?

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That gets two Big 12 teams in.

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Unless there is 7 non champion teams ranked ahead of them.

Not Coach Jimbo said:

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Faustus said:

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Nino Brown said:

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Isn't there a scenario where the big 12 doesn't get a team in?

Say BYU wins out and loses conference championship game?

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That gets two Big 12 teams in.

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Unless there is 7 non champion teams ranked ahead of them.

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True, but the common wisdom bandied about is that the conference championship games shouldn't hurt the participants for having qualified to play in them vs. the teams that didn't.

I have a hard time believing that an undefeated BYU picking up its first loss in the conference championship game would be slotted lower than the necessary amount of 10-2 teams who didn't make the cut for theirs and therefore didn't pick up an extra loss.