LB12Diamond said:

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I'm not. He's the real deal. Just hope our fans don't freak out when he has a bad play.

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you new here??

Nope

Heck we have fans that don't even accept his good plays.

that is a good dream...maybe coach Elko will be lucky and win the whole thing

why not? I expected Elko would make the inaugural play off at the start of the season

Smart move is to copy/paste the QB rotation from the LSU game, but maybe switch to Reed at half instead of a few drives into the 3rd. Give Weigman a chance to play well because his upside is greater than Reed's. If he can't cut it, go to Reed and we likely grind it out similar to the Arky game

Perhaps we should pray that Bisontis comes back or that Shanahan learns to pass block. Or that Moss breaks out his magic neon cleats again

Paul Pierce Ag said:

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Smart move is to copy/paste the QB rotation from the LSU game, but maybe switch to Reed at half instead of a few drives into the 3rd. Give Weigman a chance to play well because his upside is greater than Reed's. If he can't cut it, go to Reed and we likely grind it out similar to the Arky game

Perhaps we should pray that Bisontis comes back or that Shanahan learns to pass block. Or that Moss breaks out his magic neon cleats again

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Bisontis back for Auburn (decent chance). He needs until at least then apparently.

Pumpkinhead said:

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Paul Pierce Ag said:

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Accurate. I also think peoples' judgements are being clouded by the W/L attached to our QB's performances.

Reed truthers don't seem to want to acknowledge his poor play vs Arky and Bowling Green because we won those games. We won those games because Arky and BG are pretty bad teams, not because Reed has some magical ability to always win games he plays in regardless of performance.

Both QBs have serious flaws, Conner's are just more surprising since they seemed to come from nowhere. Hopefully we win out the rest of the season and both guys get coached up in the offseason

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We also won those Arky and BG games because Reed didn't make any catastrophic mistakes. Not a single turnover. That is often how you win those tight games. Avoiding the big mistake.

South Carolina feasts on pressuring the QB and creating turnovers. I trust Reed more right now than Conner that he won't get overwhelmed by the pressure and throw it to the other team. I'd gladly trade a few more completions by Weigman to instead not have a really bad throw (or sack that Reed might have been able to a avoid) that gifts South Carolina easy points.

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This is my line of thinking too in wanting to start Reed this game

To me the biggest key to this game is us avoiding catastrophic mistakes.

NyAggie said:

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Pumpkinhead said:

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Paul Pierce Ag said:

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Accurate. I also think peoples' judgements are being clouded by the W/L attached to our QB's performances.

Reed truthers don't seem to want to acknowledge his poor play vs Arky and Bowling Green because we won those games. We won those games because Arky and BG are pretty bad teams, not because Reed has some magical ability to always win games he plays in regardless of performance.

Both QBs have serious flaws, Conner's are just more surprising since they seemed to come from nowhere. Hopefully we win out the rest of the season and both guys get coached up in the offseason

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We also won those Arky and BG games because Reed didn't make any catastrophic mistakes. Not a single turnover. That is often how you win those tight games. Avoiding the big mistake.

South Carolina feasts on pressuring the QB and creating turnovers. I trust Reed more right now than Conner that he won't get overwhelmed by the pressure and throw it to the other team. I'd gladly trade a few more completions by Weigman to instead not have a really bad throw (or sack that Reed might have been able to a avoid) that gifts South Carolina easy points.

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This is my line of thinking too in wanting to start Reed this game

To me the biggest key to this game is us avoiding catastrophic mistakes.

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I do as well. The balance to it though is the a good pocket QB and OC can scheme against an aggressive defense. But requires accurate play calling and even more accurate QB and quick reads. We know CW is has some question, I'm still curious if Klein can scheme against it. He sure wasn't able to vs LSU. Similar scenario.

Pumpkinhead said:

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The Banned said:

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Pumpkinhead said:

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The Banned said:

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Heineken-Ashi said:

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vander54 said:

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AggieDub04 said:

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JJxvi said:

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I don't understand this dumb idea that has pervaded this board for several years that "completion percentage" is an absolute proxy for a quarterback's accuracy, and also that accuracy is just inherent and can never improve. Its asinine. Obviously a quarterback has a lot of impact on it, but honestly what type of offense are you running, what type of throws are you being asked to make is a huge factor in what your completion percentage is by itself.

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There have been some small scale case studies that have shown very few college quarterbacks improve their completion percentage from high school by more than a few points. Completion percentage is a good, though imperfect, proxy for the combination of decision and accuracy. It is a very imperfect proxy for the impact the QB has because completing 50% of deep throws is much more impactful than completing 90% of short throws. That being said Marcel's biggest struggle has been on the deep throws so his overall impact in the passing game is not buoyed by the fact he's hitting downfield throws at a similar clip to his short throws.

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Marcel has also struggled with mid range outside the numbers. He's good in the short game and over the middle but really bad outside the numbers and deep.

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Then explain Florida

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He went 11/17. He didn't light Florida up through the air. When he played teams that prepped for his running ability, he got slowed down. That's the whole point.

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He got slowed down in cases but he never fumbled or threw an INT or ever seemed flustered whatsoever. That matters A LOT.

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So if he's contained against USC and can't hit his passes ala Arkansas, it makes sense to just keep doing it? When Conner clearly couldn't get the team moving, it was obvious to make the switch to Reed. I'm ok with that. But so many people on here seem to be Reed or bust going forward.

We have a chance to do something really special this year. I don't give a rats ass which QB does it. I don't understand the ride or die with Reed mentality. Arkansas came down to a strip sack by Scourton to end it. We forced 3 turnovers and barely escaped. If we end up in that situation, I'm all for giving CW a chance. Whatever it takes to win

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Hey if that is how it plays out and Elko feels like 'good' Conner is standing there and isnt going to be high risk throwing a pick and might be able to make plays and play calls that Reed isn't making…that is Elko's call. Personally I wouldn't do that unless South Carolina is pulling away from us (like up 10 with 8:41 in 3rd quarter

Because in a really tight game I simply wouldnt risk Connor making a big mistake. I trust Reed more to not do that.

I will be surprised if Reed doesn't start.

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Same here

And if Elko decides to start Conner after what Reed did Saturday night, I'm not sure what kind of message that sends to Reed and the team

Kid goes all the right things and then absolute balls out and still does t get the starting nod?

That's why I just can't see Elko starting Conner, but he's the one who is paid the big bucks to decide that stuff so whatever he decides is best I trust

If Reed becomes Qb1 does that mean that everyone will start clamoring for CW? Since the zoo historically loves the Qb2 most of all.

NyAggie said:

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Pumpkinhead said:

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The Banned said:

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Pumpkinhead said:

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The Banned said:

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Heineken-Ashi said:

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vander54 said:

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AggieDub04 said:

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JJxvi said:

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I don't understand this dumb idea that has pervaded this board for several years that "completion percentage" is an absolute proxy for a quarterback's accuracy, and also that accuracy is just inherent and can never improve. Its asinine. Obviously a quarterback has a lot of impact on it, but honestly what type of offense are you running, what type of throws are you being asked to make is a huge factor in what your completion percentage is by itself.

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There have been some small scale case studies that have shown very few college quarterbacks improve their completion percentage from high school by more than a few points. Completion percentage is a good, though imperfect, proxy for the combination of decision and accuracy. It is a very imperfect proxy for the impact the QB has because completing 50% of deep throws is much more impactful than completing 90% of short throws. That being said Marcel's biggest struggle has been on the deep throws so his overall impact in the passing game is not buoyed by the fact he's hitting downfield throws at a similar clip to his short throws.

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Marcel has also struggled with mid range outside the numbers. He's good in the short game and over the middle but really bad outside the numbers and deep.

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Then explain Florida

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He went 11/17. He didn't light Florida up through the air. When he played teams that prepped for his running ability, he got slowed down. That's the whole point.

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He got slowed down in cases but he never fumbled or threw an INT or ever seemed flustered whatsoever. That matters A LOT.

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So if he's contained against USC and can't hit his passes ala Arkansas, it makes sense to just keep doing it? When Conner clearly couldn't get the team moving, it was obvious to make the switch to Reed. I'm ok with that. But so many people on here seem to be Reed or bust going forward.

We have a chance to do something really special this year. I don't give a rats ass which QB does it. I don't understand the ride or die with Reed mentality. Arkansas came down to a strip sack by Scourton to end it. We forced 3 turnovers and barely escaped. If we end up in that situation, I'm all for giving CW a chance. Whatever it takes to win

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Hey if that is how it plays out and Elko feels like 'good' Conner is standing there and isnt going to be high risk throwing a pick and might be able to make plays and play calls that Reed isn't making…that is Elko's call. Personally I wouldn't do that unless South Carolina is pulling away from us (like up 10 with 8:41 in 3rd quarter

Because in a really tight game I simply wouldnt risk Connor making a big mistake. I trust Reed more to not do that.

I will be surprised if Reed doesn't start.

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Same here

And if Elko decides to start Conner after what Reed did Saturday night, I'm not sure what kind of message that sends to Reed and the team

Kid goes all the right things and then absolute balls out and still does t get the starting nod?

That's why I just can't see Elko starting Conner, but he's the one who is paid the big bucks to decide that stuff so whatever he decides is best I trust

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Naw, I think they'll skip ahead to Longstreet.

NyAggie said:

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Pumpkinhead said:

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The Banned said:

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Pumpkinhead said:

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The Banned said:

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Heineken-Ashi said:

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vander54 said:

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AggieDub04 said:

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JJxvi said:

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I don't understand this dumb idea that has pervaded this board for several years that "completion percentage" is an absolute proxy for a quarterback's accuracy, and also that accuracy is just inherent and can never improve. Its asinine. Obviously a quarterback has a lot of impact on it, but honestly what type of offense are you running, what type of throws are you being asked to make is a huge factor in what your completion percentage is by itself.

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There have been some small scale case studies that have shown very few college quarterbacks improve their completion percentage from high school by more than a few points. Completion percentage is a good, though imperfect, proxy for the combination of decision and accuracy. It is a very imperfect proxy for the impact the QB has because completing 50% of deep throws is much more impactful than completing 90% of short throws. That being said Marcel's biggest struggle has been on the deep throws so his overall impact in the passing game is not buoyed by the fact he's hitting downfield throws at a similar clip to his short throws.

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Marcel has also struggled with mid range outside the numbers. He's good in the short game and over the middle but really bad outside the numbers and deep.

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Then explain Florida

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He went 11/17. He didn't light Florida up through the air. When he played teams that prepped for his running ability, he got slowed down. That's the whole point.

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He got slowed down in cases but he never fumbled or threw an INT or ever seemed flustered whatsoever. That matters A LOT.

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So if he's contained against USC and can't hit his passes ala Arkansas, it makes sense to just keep doing it? When Conner clearly couldn't get the team moving, it was obvious to make the switch to Reed. I'm ok with that. But so many people on here seem to be Reed or bust going forward.

We have a chance to do something really special this year. I don't give a rats ass which QB does it. I don't understand the ride or die with Reed mentality. Arkansas came down to a strip sack by Scourton to end it. We forced 3 turnovers and barely escaped. If we end up in that situation, I'm all for giving CW a chance. Whatever it takes to win

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Hey if that is how it plays out and Elko feels like 'good' Conner is standing there and isnt going to be high risk throwing a pick and might be able to make plays and play calls that Reed isn't making…that is Elko's call. Personally I wouldn't do that unless South Carolina is pulling away from us (like up 10 with 8:41 in 3rd quarter

Because in a really tight game I simply wouldnt risk Connor making a big mistake. I trust Reed more to not do that.

I will be surprised if Reed doesn't start.

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Same here

And if Elko decides to start Conner after what Reed did Saturday night, I'm not sure what kind of message that sends to Reed and the team

Kid goes all the right things and then absolute balls out and still does t get the starting nod?

That's why I just can't see Elko starting Conner, but he's the one who is paid the big bucks to decide that stuff so whatever he decides is best I trust

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I think so far Klein has had the reigns on who starts and Elko made the call to switch. If they start CW I expect it's because they think RPOs will slow down SC and Connor can get the ball out more quickly. In that case I also expect a short leash. If they start Reed I'd expect him to get at least a half before making any change. It seems easier to give Connor another start and flip to Reed than vice versa though.

Reed has shown he's a great team player. But not starting him after last weeks game would definitely be pushing it.

LB12Diamond said:

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Reed has shown he's a great team player. But not starting him after last weeks game would definitely be pushing it.

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thats what im saying

Either trust Elko or during Jimbo was dumb. Pick…

No idea. Reed has way outperformed Weigman as a passer (long at the ESPN passer ratings, yards per play, TD to pick ratio) . If we want someone to throw the ball, it should be him. Add in running ability and it's a home run. Weigman is just too dangerous to let throw.

I agree. This is my greatest concern with Elko.

Compare his stats to Weigman who has been there for 3 years. Weigman is way below Reed on every passing category with the exception of completion percentage in which they are basically tied.

At this point: QB1 is Reed. QB2 is Henderson. QB3 Is Weigman or someone else.

I agree that he needs to improve his passer rating (and that Conner needs a better mental game).

Our Offensive MVP is probably Zuhn, though, along with some great RB's running behind him and his fellow goons.

Both of our QBs would look better if our receivers played better. I don't mean playing like elite size and speed receivers, just doing their jobs on every play, running really good routes, etc.

We will most likely get exposed when we face someone that can contain our running game and dare us to beat them through the air.

Thank goodness that our defense is pretty great, too, as they give us a fighting chance if/when that happens.

clonebucky said:

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I agree that he needs to improve his passer rating (and that Conner needs a better mental game).

Our Offensive MVP is probably Zuhn, though, along with some great RB's running behind him and his fellow goons.

Both of our QBs would look better if our receivers played better. I don't mean playing like elite size and speed receivers, just doing their jobs on every play, running really good routes, etc.

We will most likely get exposed when we face someone that can contain our running game and dare us to beat them through the air.

Thank goodness that our defense is pretty great, too, as they give us a fighting chance if/when that happens.

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Great post. This is essentially what Arky did, but with low level talent. Texas and/or whoever we potentially face in the SEC championship will make life very difficult for us if we can't get the passing game figured out.

Interesting stat: ND kept us to 3.8 yards per carry. Arky kept us to 3.5 ypc. Both games were major struggles offensively. The main difference was turnover differential. In that particular area, it's clear that Reed has been much better. Hopefully our coaches can figure out how to capture more Mizzou/ 1st half of Miss St magic back.

Reed became the starter earlier only because of injury. Even his dad admitted while he wanted to see his son play he didn't like the idea of a starter losing their spot due to injury.
The LSU game was performance based, and Reed clearly took over the game. No reason at all for him not to start from here out imho

If Reed struggles they will.

All this discussion and the single most adverse issues is our WR group is not even average. Get that fixed and both QBs will light it up.

Binksball said:

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lagoag said:

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Binksball said:

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Everyone keeps wanting to give Conner chances because he is the 5 star with "next level arm talent"

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Everyone? I see more posters that are for moving forward with Reed than I do for Conner. I think you're trying to stir something up that's not there.

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Bro, u are annoying asf. OBVIOUSLY not everyone, but a lot of people. I'm not trying to stir anything up, I literally said Marcel is better than weigman and you're mad. TexAgs is crazy sometimes

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You seem like the one that's mad, beo

halfastros81 said:

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If Reed struggles they will.

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And if he does not struggle, some still will.

Just watch this guys film study. I'm sure some of you have. You will see exactly what CW's issue is.

MooseJr1994 said:

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Just watch this guys film study. I'm sure some of you have. You will see exactly what CW's issue is.

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Already discussed and rebutted with Stephen McGees video. Trust some small college OLineman turned sports writer or the guy who actually played QB at an NFL level. Up to you

The Banned said:

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MooseJr1994 said:

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Just watch this guys film study. I'm sure some of you have. You will see exactly what CW's issue is.

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Already discussed and rebutted with Stephen McGees video. Trust some small college OLineman turned sports writer or the guy who actually played QB at an NFL level. Up to you

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Lol right....how many starts did McGee have in the NFL? Film don't lie.

MooseJr1994 said:

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The Banned said:

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MooseJr1994 said:

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Just watch this guys film study. I'm sure some of you have. You will see exactly what CW's issue is.

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Already discussed and rebutted with Stephen McGees video. Trust some small college OLineman turned sports writer or the guy who actually played QB at an NFL level. Up to you

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Lol right....how many starts did McGee have in the NFL? Film don't lie.

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Respectfully, you're blinded to what you don't want to see. Did you know that McGee showed film too? It's amazing how that works. And you know who else watched film and reached the same conclusion? Elko. And Klein. So I can trust two QBs and our HC or some random small time OLineman who does nothing but follow UGA football.

Go watch McGee's FILM session and educate yourself. After all, "film don't lie"

The Banned said:

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MooseJr1994 said:

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The Banned said:

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MooseJr1994 said:

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Just watch this guys film study. I'm sure some of you have. You will see exactly what CW's issue is.

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Already discussed and rebutted with Stephen McGees video. Trust some small college OLineman turned sports writer or the guy who actually played QB at an NFL level. Up to you

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Lol right....how many starts did McGee have in the NFL? Film don't lie.

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Respectfully, you're blinded to what you don't want to see. Did you know that McGee showed film too? It's amazing how that works. And you know who else watched film and reached the same conclusion? Elko. And Klein. So I can trust two QBs and our HC or some random small time OLineman who does nothing but follow UGA football.

Go watch McGee's FILM session and educate yourself.

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Damn buddy settle the **** down. If you're blind to the fact the CW misses reads and then compounds it by missing throws, then I don't know what to tell you. It doesn't take an expert or a former QB to figure it out.

MooseJr1994 said:

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The Banned said:

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MooseJr1994 said:

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The Banned said:

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MooseJr1994 said:

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Just watch this guys film study. I'm sure some of you have. You will see exactly what CW's issue is.

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Already discussed and rebutted with Stephen McGees video. Trust some small college OLineman turned sports writer or the guy who actually played QB at an NFL level. Up to you

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Lol right....how many starts did McGee have in the NFL? Film don't lie.

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Respectfully, you're blinded to what you don't want to see. Did you know that McGee showed film too? It's amazing how that works. And you know who else watched film and reached the same conclusion? Elko. And Klein. So I can trust two QBs and our HC or some random small time OLineman who does nothing but follow UGA football.

Go watch McGee's FILM session and educate yourself.

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Damn buddy settle the **** down. If you're blind to the fact the CW misses reads and then compounds it by missing throws, then I don't know what to tell you. It doesn't take an expert or a former QB to figure it out.

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I'm not blind to that fact. I've agreed that he does. What I'm tired of is football ignorant Aggies ready to crown a guy who played very weak football against the mighty BG and Arkansas based on incorrect "evidence" and personal gut feelings.

The fact is this offense has a significant problem regardless of who plays QB because the QB that can slow the pass rush is very inaccurate (go watch the film of all 3 starts since it don't lie) and the QB that is accurate enough (at least most of the time) to make the throws has some sort of mental block and doesn't get the protection he needs. Add in the fact that the WRs aren't playing well (again, as noted in the film session and both of our primary coaches) and it's clear that neither QB is really the answer. At least not yet.

I'm ok with Reed starting, as he's shown that he'll protect the ball. I'm also ok with CW starting as he has the only impressive passing game we've had this entire season and defending the pass is USC's one weakness. What I get tired of is seeing Ags listening to some jackass on the internet pretending he knows how to play QB and coming to the uneducated opinion that Conner sucks. Amazing how quickly they forget we scored one time over the course of 3 quarters against Arkansas and we started that drive on the Arky 10. They both have strengths, they both have weaknesses and both should be supported

Very uncertain which is more likely Reeds passing improving or CW getting his mojo back.

In the absence of that the by far most impressive thing about Reed's passing is zero INT.

Are you trying to replace the BAS chick on SEC shorts?

Holy moly you are insufferable.

He's basically correct though.

Both Reed and Weigman have both played poorly on average. A respectable argument can be made for Reed starting the game because he protects the ball better than Weigman, which really matters in a close game, which we are likely to have against SC. Counter to that is SC's pass D is bad, and Weigman has been the only QB we've had to take advantage of bad pass Ds.

However, we can't be going around saying Reed is the goat, that he's meaningfully comparable to Lamar Jackson or Manziel, or that he's gonna be the savior of our offense because none of that's based in reality.

Let's all deal in reality. I would much rather see and acknowledge the warning signs before a loss (and be happily surprised with a win should it occur) than ignore clear indicators and be completely frustrated over a loss. I did the latter a bunch under Jimbo, and I've had enough of that

More football, less talk. This horse has been kicked to sht. Lets now watch it all unfold.

Actually he's not. Reed has missed a few passes. In only his 2nd and 3rd starts.

I get ones pushing for CW earlier in the year especially ones showing they have bias.

But doing it now after how both played last week (And CW showed concerns in the State game as well and graded out poorly) is beyond crazy. And doing long melts over and over it just appears like they have a problem.

LB12Diamond said:

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Actually he's not. Reed has missed a few passes. In only his 2nd and 3rd starts.

I get ones pushing for CW earlier in the year especially ones showing they have bias.

But doing it now after how both played last week (And CW showed concerns in the State game as well and graded out poorly) is beyond crazy. And doing long melts over and over it just appears like they have a problem.

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I understand that actually working through a point when the standard is "Reed is amazing and needs to start and CW should never see the field again" can look like a long melt, but I'm trying to actually give Ags on this board the benefit of the doubt that they know how to read.

I'll be done with it now. If people can watch Arkansas and BG and come to the conclusion the Reed is the clear and only choice, have at it. If people want to believe a random SI writer who played small time OL knows more about playing QB than 2 QBs and a HC of the team, have at it. My focus has been getting people to realize that so they don't have an aneurysm if CW is back on the field. It just amazes me how short memories are here

ETA: the Ags ****ting on CW should be ashamed, which is the real reason I keep coming back to this. Bo Nix was essentially booed out of Auburn and became a 1st round pick. Haynes King was written off here and has legit draft potential this year. Many were happy to see "slider" Murray go, only to watch him go on to be a starter on Sundays. It's stupid to write of CW, but many like you seem to be eager to do it.