Can anyone provide clarity on rules in this situation? Washington running the ball to drain the clock instead of just kneeling 3x. Washington running back gets injured and appears the Huskies were forced to take one of their timeouts. If they kneel 3x Texas probably ony has 15 secs after a punt. So my question is what would have happened if Washington didnt have a timeout? Im guessing that they would have taken care of injured player and when play resumes the official would tell clock operator to start the play on his whistle?
Washington injury and timeout?
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Last: 2 yr ago by Jarrin Jay
I don't know about the clock, but running the ball was the right thing to do. Get one first down and the game is over and you don't punt.
I want to know too. That has been on my mind all night and into this morning.
I think the refs botched this--and it damn near affected the outcome of the game. I mentioned in a post on another thread that I wasn't surprised given who it benefited.
What they did makes no sense. Playing by the same rules, t.u. could've faked an injury every play on the following drive since they didn't have any timeouts. I know the play clock would be 25 seconds instead of 40 seconds (same as following a TV timeout)--so UW did lose out on 15 extra seconds of game clock runoff, but I think the game clock should've restarted when the ball was whistled ready for play. They should've punted with 25 seconds left instead of 50 seconds which was all the difference in the world given the game situation.
Unless there's rule change I don't know about. Was there? It seems they're always tweaking the clock rules every offseason so who knows.
I think the refs botched this--and it damn near affected the outcome of the game. I mentioned in a post on another thread that I wasn't surprised given who it benefited.
What they did makes no sense. Playing by the same rules, t.u. could've faked an injury every play on the following drive since they didn't have any timeouts. I know the play clock would be 25 seconds instead of 40 seconds (same as following a TV timeout)--so UW did lose out on 15 extra seconds of game clock runoff, but I think the game clock should've restarted when the ball was whistled ready for play. They should've punted with 25 seconds left instead of 50 seconds which was all the difference in the world given the game situation.
Unless there's rule change I don't know about. Was there? It seems they're always tweaking the clock rules every offseason so who knows.
If there was an injured Texas player, and they had no timeouts, there would be a 10 second runoff on the clock
BMX Bandit said:
If there was an injured Texas player, and they had no timeouts, there would be a 10 second runoff on the clock
But would the clock have restarted on the ready to play? I think it would have and should have for Washington.
Washington didn't manage the clock well toward the end of the game. When you have the lead and the ball, you do not want to stop the clock because that benefits the other team. On the one hand it leaves your opponent with more time on the clock when they get the ball back and it lets them save their timeouts for when they go back on offense.
No different than having the lead and the basketball and you start jacking up 3's from 30 feet as quickly as you can get the ball downcourt.
No different than having the lead and the basketball and you start jacking up 3's from 30 feet as quickly as you can get the ball downcourt.
I don't disagree that Washington botched the time management, they did.
But it seems 99% of teams, in that situation, would have run the ball vs. taking a knee. Can't remember the last time I saw a team taking a knee when they couldn't get the clock to 0 then punt it.....
I do think the rule and how it's applied in that situation is dumb. If it's a situation like that, in which the defense will decline the 10 second run off, it's obvious the offense isn't faking an injury to stop the clock. Minimum, game clock should start with the play clock.
But it seems 99% of teams, in that situation, would have run the ball vs. taking a knee. Can't remember the last time I saw a team taking a knee when they couldn't get the clock to 0 then punt it.....
I do think the rule and how it's applied in that situation is dumb. If it's a situation like that, in which the defense will decline the 10 second run off, it's obvious the offense isn't faking an injury to stop the clock. Minimum, game clock should start with the play clock.
I dont think you can say they mismanaged the clock. They were running the ball in an attempt to get first down and end the game. The other option is to kneel 3x and then punt. Texas would have only had 15-20 secs if they did that but does anyone ever kneel 3x then punt in that situation instead of running 3x in attempt to get first down. The player getting injured doesnt mean it was bad clock management, cant control that. Rule application is weird in that situation and Texas benefitted from it.one safe place said:
Washington didn't manage the clock well toward the end of the game. When you have the lead and the ball, you do not want to stop the clock because that benefits the other team. On the one hand it leaves your opponent with more time on the clock when they get the ball back and it lets them save their timeouts for when they go back on offense.
No different than having the lead and the basketball and you start jacking up 3's from 30 feet as quickly as you can get the ball downcourt.
100% the refs got it correct.
Inside of 1 minute, when the clock is stopped for an injured player, the other team has the option of requesting a 10 second run off and the clock starts on the ready, or declining the run off and the clock starts on the snap. A timeout avoids the run off if so desired.
Wash took a timeout to just get everyone on the same page. They were not forced.
The far bigger mistake was the previous drive throw on 3rd.
Inside of 1 minute, when the clock is stopped for an injured player, the other team has the option of requesting a 10 second run off and the clock starts on the ready, or declining the run off and the clock starts on the snap. A timeout avoids the run off if so desired.
Wash took a timeout to just get everyone on the same page. They were not forced.
The far bigger mistake was the previous drive throw on 3rd.
ok if washington was not forced to take a timeout then they are just really dumb if they elected to take a timeout there. The player is injured and game is stopped for awhile. Why would you take a time out and stop the clock?bigjag19 said:
100% the refs got it correct.
Inside of 1 minute, when the clock is stopped for an injured player, the other team has the option of requesting a 10 second run off and the clock starts on the ready, or declining the run off and the clock starts on the snap. A timeout avoids the run off if so desired.
Wash took a timeout to just get everyone on the same page. They were not forced.
The far bigger mistake was the previous drive throw on 3rd.
It's an official timeout for the stoppage.SilverTongueDevil said:ok if washington was not forced to take a timeout then they are just really dumb if they elected to take a timeout there. The player is injured and game is stopped for awhile. Why would you take a time out and stop the clock?bigjag19 said:
100% the refs got it correct.
Inside of 1 minute, when the clock is stopped for an injured player, the other team has the option of requesting a 10 second run off and the clock starts on the ready, or declining the run off and the clock starts on the snap. A timeout avoids the run off if so desired.
Wash took a timeout to just get everyone on the same page. They were not forced.
The far bigger mistake was the previous drive throw on 3rd.
Clock was stopped and not resuming.
It was very poor clock managment...very fisher-esque.
I never saw so many mistakes that a team in the lead with 4 minutes. Washington almost blew that game. Stupid play calls, injuries, muffed punt catch, running into punt receiver. Absolutely stupid.
So if I'm trying to run a 2 minute offense with no timeouts, all I have to do is fake injury to stop the clock until the next snap and all I risk is a 10 second runoff?
It just seems this would be something offenses could exploit. I don't ever recall seeing this happen in a game. The faking injuries normally is something we see accused against defensive players.
It just seems this would be something offenses could exploit. I don't ever recall seeing this happen in a game. The faking injuries normally is something we see accused against defensive players.
Glad we have Elko, don't have Jimbo anymore and passed on DeBoer
Doesn't matter, sip lost.
Elko for President!!!
Elko for President!!!
10 second run AND clock starts on the signal, not the snap.
In concept it might've been the right thing to do, but not with the way tu was stuffing them between the tackles all night long.
Sark couldn't even believe they were running it and was yelling for his guys to go for the strip fumble. tu was by far the more physical team in that game.
Sark couldn't even believe they were running it and was yelling for his guys to go for the strip fumble. tu was by far the more physical team in that game.
"If the player injury is the only reason for stopping the clock (other than his or a teammate's helmet coming off, Rule 3-3-9) with less than one minute in the half, the opponent has the option of a 10-second runoff.
The play clock will be set at 40 seconds for an injury to a player of the defensive team and at 25 seconds for an injury to a player of the offensive team (Rule 3-2-4-c-4).
If there is a 10-second runoff the game clock will start on the referee's signal. If there is no 10-second runoff the game clock will start on the snap.
The 10-second runoff may be avoided by the use of a charged team timeout if available.
There is no option of a 10-second runoff if there are injuries to opposing players. (A.R. 3-3-5-VIII and IX)"
https://rulebook.github.io/en/rules/3/sections/3/
The play clock will be set at 40 seconds for an injury to a player of the defensive team and at 25 seconds for an injury to a player of the offensive team (Rule 3-2-4-c-4).
If there is a 10-second runoff the game clock will start on the referee's signal. If there is no 10-second runoff the game clock will start on the snap.
The 10-second runoff may be avoided by the use of a charged team timeout if available.
There is no option of a 10-second runoff if there are injuries to opposing players. (A.R. 3-3-5-VIII and IX)"
https://rulebook.github.io/en/rules/3/sections/3/
You guys need to read the rules more carefully.
Well if you run the ball and get a first down the game is over. So that's good. If you run the ball and somehow fumble you could lose the game so that's bad.
It's very easy to second guess the call but I don't think the UW coach had his back getting injured and stopping the clock factored into the equation. They run that 13 extra seconds and there is considerably less pucker at the end.
It's very easy to second guess the call but I don't think the UW coach had his back getting injured and stopping the clock factored into the equation. They run that 13 extra seconds and there is considerably less pucker at the end.
Maybe this is dumb, but I've always wondered why teams dont just snap the ball and play a bit of safe 'keep away' in the backfield to burn a little clock before taking a knee or sliding, rather than try to run the ball into traffic.
Should easily be able to have a 10-15ish second play, safe from defenders before going to the ground on your own terms at the expense of a little yardage.
Should easily be able to have a 10-15ish second play, safe from defenders before going to the ground on your own terms at the expense of a little yardage.
Easily be able to have a 10-15ish second play? That's a long ass time. They'll do it on 4th down sometimes, like if the Washington player wouldn't have gotten injured I wouldn't have been surprised to see the QB take the snap and run backwards and kill clock then take a safety. But outside that, don't really see how just kill 10+ seconds on a play and definitely not at the expense of little yardage.chilidogfood said:
Maybe this is dumb, but I've always wondered why teams dont just snap the ball and play a bit of safe 'keep away' in the backfield to burn a little clock before taking a knee or sliding, rather than try to run the ball into traffic.
Should easily be able to have a 10-15ish second play, safe from defenders before going to the ground on your own terms at the expense of a little yardage.
They needed a first down and didn't need an injury timeout, you said???rootube said:
Well if you run the ball and get a first down the game is over. So that's good. If you run the ball and somehow fumble you could lose the game so that's bad.
It's very easy to second guess the call but I don't think the UW coach had his back getting injured and stopping the clock factored into the equation. They run that 13 extra seconds and there is considerably less pucker at the end.
Actually, if he doesn't get injured they could have run additional 30-33 seconds off the clock. The playclock was at 33 when the time was at 47 seconds. But I think they would have adjusted it to 30 seconds for tu.rootube said:
Well if you run the ball and get a first down the game is over. So that's good. If you run the ball and somehow fumble you could lose the game so that's bad.
It's very easy to second guess the call but I don't think the UW coach had his back getting injured and stopping the clock factored into the equation. They run that 13 extra seconds and there is considerably less pucker at the end.
This!!!chilidogfood said:
Maybe this is dumb, but I've always wondered why teams dont just snap the ball and play a bit of safe 'keep away' in the backfield to burn a little clock before taking a knee or sliding, rather than try to run the ball into traffic.
Should easily be able to have a 10-15ish second play, safe from defenders before going to the ground on your own terms at the expense of a little yardage.
I'll take it a step further. I'm fine with them running the ball but IMO its QB runs all day long. Having the QB hand off just invites another opportunity for error. You have to get the clock moving and every second counts so quickly taking a knee is not as effective. Get it in your QB hands and have him run something like a bootleg keeper. Eats more time, barely gives up yardage or possibly gets a crease to pick up positive yards, and lowers the risk of fumble. It's also easier for a QB in space to decide to slide if need be to avoid contact. Pounding a RB straight ahead is obviously doing the opposite.
I totally disagree that it lowers chance of fumble. I have seen too many QBs fumble the ball and they are not always used to running when the entire opposing team is trying to strip the ball. I think that play might even increase the chance of a fumble (but really depends on the QB as well).trip98 said:This!!!chilidogfood said:
Maybe this is dumb, but I've always wondered why teams dont just snap the ball and play a bit of safe 'keep away' in the backfield to burn a little clock before taking a knee or sliding, rather than try to run the ball into traffic.
Should easily be able to have a 10-15ish second play, safe from defenders before going to the ground on your own terms at the expense of a little yardage.
I'll take it a step further. I'm fine with them running the ball but IMO its QB runs all day long. Having the QB hand off just invites another opportunity for error. You have to get the clock moving and every second counts so quickly taking a knee is not as effective. Get it in your QB hands and have him run something like a bootleg keeper. Eats more time, barely gives up yardage or possibly gets a crease to pick up positive yards, and lowers the risk of fumble. It's also easier for a QB in space to decide to slide if need be to avoid contact. Pounding a RB straight ahead is obviously doing the opposite.
htxag09 said:Easily be able to have a 10-15ish second play? That's a long ass time. They'll do it on 4th down sometimes, like if the Washington player wouldn't have gotten injured I wouldn't have been surprised to see the QB take the snap and run backwards and kill clock then take a safety. But outside that, don't really see how just kill 10+ seconds on a play and definitely not at the expense of little yardage.chilidogfood said:
Maybe this is dumb, but I've always wondered why teams dont just snap the ball and play a bit of safe 'keep away' in the backfield to burn a little clock before taking a knee or sliding, rather than try to run the ball into traffic.
Should easily be able to have a 10-15ish second play, safe from defenders before going to the ground on your own terms at the expense of a little yardage.
Ok, maybe 10-15s is being optimistic, but running the ball straight ahead gets only 3ish seconds off the clock before the play is blown dead.
If the QB is in max protection, he should surely be able to get more time than that off before he takes a knee / slides.
OSU used Dez Bryant to run out of the back of the endzone at Kyle Field one year to burn clock. I would do qb sweep and have them slide. Take a much time as possible and you may even get a penalty on the defense with a hit.
The easier option, do not use a RB that is already injured if you want to avoid an injury timeout in a critical situation.
See this debacletrip98 said:This!!!chilidogfood said:
Maybe this is dumb, but I've always wondered why teams dont just snap the ball and play a bit of safe 'keep away' in the backfield to burn a little clock before taking a knee or sliding, rather than try to run the ball into traffic.
Should easily be able to have a 10-15ish second play, safe from defenders before going to the ground on your own terms at the expense of a little yardage.
I'll take it a step further. I'm fine with them running the ball but IMO its QB runs all day long. Having the QB hand off just invites another opportunity for error. You have to get the clock moving and every second counts so quickly taking a knee is not as effective. Get it in your QB hands and have him run something like a bootleg keeper. Eats more time, barely gives up yardage or possibly gets a crease to pick up positive yards, and lowers the risk of fumble. It's also easier for a QB in space to decide to slide if need be to avoid contact. Pounding a RB straight ahead is obviously doing the opposite.
Not dumb. Mobile QB. Take shot gun snap and run left or right toward sideline, maybe even turn up field but run more time off clock versus up middle run. In this situation, runs taking a few more seconds off clock on 1st through 3rd downs would have meant they could run clock out without punting.
Nothing looks more foolish than tradition to those who have none.
Truth be told the real time is burned on the play clock between the plays (when the opposing team doesn't call TO). But even if the run eats an extra 3-4 seconds on each play you're helping.
Just last night Texas ran 4 plays in 15 seconds. 1st and 10 with 15 seconds, 2nd and 11 with 10 seconds, 3rd and something with 5 seconds, and 4th and something with 1 second.
Each 3-4 second play you can run even if you still end up punting away is concieveably a play the opponent won't get.
Just last night Texas ran 4 plays in 15 seconds. 1st and 10 with 15 seconds, 2nd and 11 with 10 seconds, 3rd and something with 5 seconds, and 4th and something with 1 second.
Each 3-4 second play you can run even if you still end up punting away is concieveably a play the opponent won't get.
Repeatedly snapping the ball with 10-15 seconds is completely boneheaded when your opponent needs every second.
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