amskier1 said:

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NyAggie said:

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amskier1 said:

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OP, and just think, if it wasn't for the Hurricane in the gulf, we don't have to postpone the La Tech game and have a chance for JFF and Evans to play their first college games as a warm up to be better prepared to take on Florida instead of having to face a good Gator team as their first game right off the bat. Also, what if Summy doesn't call the timeout right before half when the kicker missed the FG, giving him a second shot at it and he drained it down the middle to go into half.

Or, what about our other loss that year to Lsu when Williams returned the kickoff down to the 30 and Taylor Bertolet ends up missing a FG from 33 yards out. If we could have taken advantage of his great kick return and punch in a TD, we win that game instead of losing it 24-19.

And, honestly at the end of the year we were the best team in college football and most anybody who really knows football and if they put their biased aside, we should have got to play for the championship and we would have won it. Unfortunately, media has usually hated on us but you can lie to the naked eye.

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that's alll stuff to think about.

but what about this:

that la tech team was damn good and I think had we played them opening week like we were supposed to, we may have lost that one as our offense may not have been up to speed yet to be able to score with them.

they had a badass offense as well that year and a QB with experience.

it can work both ways.

and we still may have lost to florida in game 2 because muschamp would have had tape on jff and his second half defense may have been employed all game and shut us down

so thinking about it that way we may have gone 8-4 instead of 10-2

who the heck knows?

but I do agree that we were the best team in the country by the time we beat alabama.

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See I think our offense was just fine. After the Florida game we went.........

SMU---------48-3
S Car St-----70-14
Arky----------58-10

La Tech with their no defense went

cougar high--------56-49
Rice------------------56-37
Illinois---------------52-24
Virginia--------------44-38

Yeah I definitely think we win it and it gives us back our bye week right before the Lsu game. I think that bye week alone, makes a difference but especially considering we replaced it with a track meet right before playing Lsu. Oh yeah and we had to go on the road to old piss and follow that with our bye week (nope, go on the road again to our track meet with La Tech) and then face Lsu. Yeah, I really do think those things add up and changes things. Not to mention again what I did in my original post about not scoring on Williams kick return and Bertolet missing a 33 yarder with the wind at his back.

I think there were several factors lining up against us in both our losses. We could have easily gone 12-0 or 11-1

But again, and glad you agree, there was no doubt we were the best by the end of the season.

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Yeah, so many what if when you come that close

I may have played out like you said but we will never know

Still, it was a great season, probably the best one I've ever experienced as an Aggie

Then again, beat LaTech and Florida and Bama is more prepared and focused.

Johnny Manziel single handedly put Texas A&M on the national map and prompted an influx of funds from donors for the Kyle Field rebuild. The only reason he wouldn't be in the Top 5 is because he only played 2 years, but what he did in those two years was spectacular. In his freshman year in 2012, he completed 68.0% of his attempts for 26 touchdown passes against 9 interceptions for a 155.3 QB rating on his way to becoming the first freshman to win the Heisman. In 2013, he completed 69.9% of his passes for 37 touchdown passes against 13 interceptions for a 172.0 QB rating. We lost 4 games in 2013 because our defense struggled. We allowed 31+ points in 8 games, and we won 5 of those 8 games because of Johnny Manziel.

Imagine our defense in 2013 had Damontre Moore stayed another year. We lost some close ones primarily because our defense couldn't get a crucial stop.

Then JFFs legacy might be back to back 2 loss seasons (or better), and possibly another top five finish (or better).

La Tech game is burned in my memory! Favorite game of Johnnys Heisman year. Remember how late that went into the night and Johnny running that defender down to save a touchdown after a turnover? Blew me away when he did that.

MaroonStain said:

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Then again, beat LaTech and Florida and Bama is more prepared and focused.

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Now that's one complete garbage take. Well done if not a troll.

Sorry being 4-4 in SEC games at Kyle precludes him from being considered one of the greatest players of all time
Obviously if he would have come back for a third year and won a conference championship , and a 2 nd Heisman he would be on the list

This is such a flawed mindset. It like giving the Cy Young to the guy with the most wins instead of the guy with the 1.6 ERA. It's a team sport. Johnny can't play defense too

The Banned said:

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TheTruthsLastHope said:

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Definitely Not A Cop said:

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Only reason he wouldn't be in the top 5 is if you are biased.

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Or he's not close to being one of the best 5 players in the sports history. Not really debatable if you're objective. What is debatable is how many can be considered greatest of all time.

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Idk man. He put up numbers in his first two years that are incredible, especially in the SEC. Only reason he wouldn't be in the Top 5 is because he only played 2 years. What he did in those two years were amazing. First freshman to win the heisman, then had even better numbers the next year. Only reason he didn't win it back to back was because he soured in the public eye and we lost 4 games. But he most certainly should have won it twice as a freshman and sophomore. That's how good he really was

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Did you miss the LSU and Mizzou games in 2013. Manziel wasn't even a Heisman finalist that year.

mos03c said:

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The Banned said:

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TheTruthsLastHope said:

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Definitely Not A Cop said:

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Only reason he wouldn't be in the top 5 is if you are biased.

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Or he's not close to being one of the best 5 players in the sports history. Not really debatable if you're objective. What is debatable is how many can be considered greatest of all time.

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Idk man. He put up numbers in his first two years that are incredible, especially in the SEC. Only reason he wouldn't be in the Top 5 is because he only played 2 years. What he did in those two years were amazing. First freshman to win the heisman, then had even better numbers the next year. Only reason he didn't win it back to back was because he soured in the public eye and we lost 4 games. But he most certainly should have won it twice as a freshman and sophomore. That's how good he really was

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Did you miss the LSU and Mizzou games in 2013. Manziel wasn't even a Heisman finalist that year.

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Yes. He was playing with a separated shoulder and despite two really bad games put up better numbers than the heisman year prior. If two bad games should lose you the heisman, he shouldn't have won in 2012. He played very poorly against Florida and LSU statistically speaking

TheTruthsLastHope said:

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Definitely Not A Cop said:

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Only reason he wouldn't be in the top 5 is if you are biased.

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Or he's not close to being one of the best 5 players in the sports history. Not really debatable if you're objective. What is debatable is how many can be considered greatest of all time.

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You're just lying to yourself now

Ol Rock said:

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Freaking Bertolet.

Missed two field goals and a PAT (7 points) in that stinking 5 point loss.

The fumble right before the half was also very costly.

LSU derailed a storybook MNC season.

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Not to mention the screen pass for a TD that got called back for holding. SO many things went wrong that game.

Hungry Ojos said:

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merch said:

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Well we have been over this many times.

But for hurricane our first game is not Florida and with warm game most feel that flips to Aggie win. That gets us to SEC championship and likely playing for title.

Or we could have beaten LSU…and only reason they hung around after appearing to go down 3 TDs very very early was because of a bull crap chop block call on ATM…

But forget officiating. Hurricane didn't allow true freshman a warm up game and that, though we didn't know it at the time, was gigantic!!!!

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That wouldn't have been a "warm up game". La Tech was VERY good that year and we were fortunate to win when we did finally play them. Those thinking that that game would have been a cake walk are clearly wrong and it VERY easily could have gone the other way. Imagine what 2012 looks like if we drop the first game against La Tech.

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Yeah, that LATech game would have been a mf'er of a first game on the road. I'm not sure where people get the idea that the game was a cakewalk. I guess people just see the name and forget about their WR unit lead by Quinton Patton.

Lord Goldeneyes said:

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Hungry Ojos said:

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merch said:

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Well we have been over this many times.

But for hurricane our first game is not Florida and with warm game most feel that flips to Aggie win. That gets us to SEC championship and likely playing for title.

Or we could have beaten LSU…and only reason they hung around after appearing to go down 3 TDs very very early was because of a bull crap chop block call on ATM…

But forget officiating. Hurricane didn't allow true freshman a warm up game and that, though we didn't know it at the time, was gigantic!!!!

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That wouldn't have been a "warm up game". La Tech was VERY good that year and we were fortunate to win when we did finally play them. Those thinking that that game would have been a cake walk are clearly wrong and it VERY easily could have gone the other way. Imagine what 2012 looks like if we drop the first game against La Tech.

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Yeah, that LATech game would have been a mf'er of a first game on the road. I'm not sure where people get the idea that the game was a cakewalk. I guess people just see the name and forget about their WR unit lead by Quinton Patton.

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LA Tech was good, but going against a Muschamp defense stacked with NFL players and first rounders everywhere on the D-line was a very tough ask.

We're only pushing back on that comment calling LA Tech a warm-up game. That Florida game was certainly a tough opener in itself.

Guy on a Buffalo said:

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…paired with an entire offense of NFL talent (at least one future hall of famer and an entire offensive line of future NFL starters), and the best we could do was win the Cotton Bowl.

Our team this year is full of talent, but nothing near the 2012 team. The thought that we would expect 10 wins when that was basically the ceiling under the best of conditions presents an interesting debate: is this team worthy of that expectation? Or are we destined to be disappointed?

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'Full of talent but nothing near the 2012 team' ???
Correct me if I'm wrong, but from a pure talent standpoint this is the best A&M roster of all time…

We had one, he's the head coach at Duke now…

The Banned said:

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This is such a flawed mindset. It like giving the Cy Young to the guy with the most wins instead of the guy with the 1.6 ERA. It's a team sport. Johnny can't play defense too

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The Cy young is an award for a single season , the question is was he one of the best ever. To be on the list of the best ever the Resume has to be better than JFF's.

greg.w.h said:

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It Aint Easy Being Brown said:

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Defense wins championships


One of these days we'll quit **** around & hire a top flight defensive head coach

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I would offer Saban hires great DCs and enforces a real "process" from recruiting to frequent NC wins. RC fell into the trap of preferring safety over innovation which Johnny and Sumlin reminded him that it made his team vulnerable to HUNH and being outsmarted. So he revamped his offense to score more to cover the risk.

Was Johnny the greatest QB ever? No…but he was even more valuable than great: he was unschemable in college. The great unexpected.

The funny part is he and Evans tore up DeRuyter's defenses as a scout team first if the stories are true…

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The true greats treat their teammates with respect. Not only do they show up and ball out at practice, they are the first and last there. We got where we did because of Johnny and we didn't get any further because of Johnny.

Sq 17 said:

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Sorry being 4-4 in SEC games at Kyle precludes him from being considered one of the greatest players of all time
Obviously if he would have come back for a third year and won a conference championship , and a 2 nd Heisman he would be on the list

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This lacks context.

Individually, he was one of the best that played. Football is very much a team game, and even QBs are highly dependent on others. You can't simply list 4-4 at Kyle Field without factoring in 2 of those losses were 49-42 and 45-41. Another was in his first game.

Mike Evans also went 4-4. Was he not one of the best WRs? Or does w/l only count with QBs?

That 2013 defense was atrocious. Manziel would have likely gone about 22-4 for a (at the time) 6-7-win program including winning all our home games in 2013 if the 2013 defense was even just average.

mos03c said:

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The Banned said:

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TheTruthsLastHope said:

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Definitely Not A Cop said:

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Only reason he wouldn't be in the top 5 is if you are biased.

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Or he's not close to being one of the best 5 players in the sports history. Not really debatable if you're objective. What is debatable is how many can be considered greatest of all time.

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Idk man. He put up numbers in his first two years that are incredible, especially in the SEC. Only reason he wouldn't be in the Top 5 is because he only played 2 years. What he did in those two years were amazing. First freshman to win the heisman, then had even better numbers the next year. Only reason he didn't win it back to back was because he soured in the public eye and we lost 4 games. But he most certainly should have won it twice as a freshman and sophomore. That's how good he really was

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Did you miss the LSU and Mizzou games in 2013. Manziel wasn't even a Heisman finalist that year.

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Manziel was 3rd in completions. 8th in passing yards. 4th in pass yards per attempt. 3rd in passer rating. 4th in passing TDs. 2nd among QBs in total yards. Tied for 2nd in total TDs by a QB. By every metric, he was a top 3 QB, and probably #2 behind only Winston that year in terms of his impact on a game.

His defense was atrocious. 8-4 players don't get invited to the heisman. Not because they aren't one of the best players individually. But because we all know the award is the best player on the best team most of the time, with rare exceptions such as Johnny in 2012 being too good to omit.

BimsAg24 said:

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Guy on a Buffalo said:

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…paired with an entire offense of NFL talent (at least one future hall of famer and an entire offensive line of future NFL starters), and the best we could do was win the Cotton Bowl.

Our team this year is full of talent, but nothing near the 2012 team. The thought that we would expect 10 wins when that was basically the ceiling under the best of conditions presents an interesting debate: is this team worthy of that expectation? Or are we destined to be disappointed?

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'Full of talent but nothing near the 2012 team' ???
Correct me if I'm wrong, but from a pure talent standpoint this is the best A&M roster of all time…

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Probably last year in terms of raw talent, but with that being because of true fish. This year we have a much better roster. 2012 likely had more 1st round offensive draft picks with 6.

I'd say this year will end up with the most draft picks that we have had in 2+ decades. 6 1st round draft picks will be tough to beat. But total picks shouldn't (13). Only time will tell.

amskier1 said:

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OP, and just think, if it wasn't for the Hurricane in the gulf, we don't have to postpone the La Tech game and have a chance for JFF and Evans to play their first college games as a warm up to be better prepared to take on Florida instead of having to face a good Gator team as their first game right off the bat. Also, what if Summy doesn't call the timeout right before half when the kicker missed the FG, giving him a second shot at it and he drained it down the middle to go into half.

Or, what about our other loss that year to Lsu when Williams returned the kickoff down to the 30 and Taylor Bertolet ends up missing a FG from 33 yards out. If we could have taken advantage of his great kick return and punch in a TD, we win that game instead of losing it 24-19.

And, honestly at the end of the year we were the best team in college football and most anybody who really knows football and if they put their biased aside, we should have got to play for the championship and we would have won it. Unfortunately, media has usually hated on us but you can lie to the naked eye.

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What are you talking about, the media hated us? We lost 2 conference games. We didn't even get to play for the SEC title and that Georgia team was no cake walk, Notre Dame was but not Georgia. The media didn't keep us out of anything, much less the SEC title game. Those two losses kept us out of the SEC Championship...

Guy on a Buffalo said:

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…paired with an entire offense of NFL talent (at least one future hall of famer and an entire offensive line of future NFL starters), and the best we could do was win the Cotton Bowl.

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we were 4 points away from a national championship, beat florida and we win it all, it really is that simple

The current roster has the same or more potential in it as what Sherman built and gave Sumlin in 2012. I'd argue we have more depth.

Remember… we had the best recruiting class of all time and they are redshirt freshman or sophomores now. Some left the program but we are potential heavy on the young side. Time will tell. I have more faith in Jimbo sustaining a program than Sumlin so hope this turns out better

Guy on a Buffalo said:

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…paired with an entire offense of NFL talent (at least one future hall of famer and an entire offensive line of future NFL starters), and the best we could do was win the Cotton Bowl.

Our team this year is full of talent, but nothing near the 2012 team. The thought that we would expect 10 wins when that was basically the ceiling under the best of conditions presents an interesting debate: is this team worthy of that expectation? Or are we destined to be disappointed?

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you must be new to Aggie Football.

W said:

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Sherman left Sumlin some great players...

but he also left him that kicker

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Sherman, allowed to coach that team, would still be here.

greg.w.h said:

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It Aint Easy Being Brown said:

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Defense wins championships


One of these days we'll quit **** around & hire a top flight defensive head coach

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I would offer Saban hires great DCs and enforces a real "process" from recruiting to frequent NC wins. RC fell into the trap of preferring safety over innovation which Johnny and Sumlin reminded him that it made his team vulnerable to HUNH and being outsmarted. So he revamped his offense to score more to cover the risk.

Was Johnny the greatest QB ever? No…but he was even more valuable than great: he was unschemable in college. The great unexpected.

The funny part is he and Evans tore up DeRuyter's defenses as a scout team first if the stories are true…

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Yes, Johnny was the greatest college QB ever. I've seen all those on Kyle Field since 1957. No one can touch JFF!

The OP was " one of the greatest of all times "
Evans was great , Manziel was great
I just disagree with " one of the greatest of all times "

How would you guys rank:
1. Johnny Football
2. RGIII
3. Vince Young