Kliff mentioned he made a mistake against Florida and freed up Johnny to play his way after that. Which the Zoo neatly hypothesized in 2012 during the season…

ea1060 said:

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Seanzy2012 said:

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I did come out of that documentary thinking that Sumlin and Kliff didn't really care about Johnny. They knew what they could get out of him, and man did both of them profit from it. Let the kid be a danger to himself, as long as he scores touchdowns.

Not taking away fault from Johnny, but when I was his age I still had a monkey brain that just wanted to drink beer and chase women.

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I didnt get this feeling after watching the documentary. Kliff said something to the effect of that if you try and cage Johnny too much and give him rules, the more he rebels. Johnny's mom even said there was nothing they could say or do to discipline him after he comes home from partying with Drake and celebrities.

JFF was on another level when he was in college, and Im sure Kliff and Sumlin knew they had to toe a fine line with him or else he would explode.

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They could bench him and reward players who show up to practice and sober for games.

yea or they could just go out and dominate like we did

bmks270 said:

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ea1060 said:

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Seanzy2012 said:

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I did come out of that documentary thinking that Sumlin and Kliff didn't really care about Johnny. They knew what they could get out of him, and man did both of them profit from it. Let the kid be a danger to himself, as long as he scores touchdowns.

Not taking away fault from Johnny, but when I was his age I still had a monkey brain that just wanted to drink beer and chase women.

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I didnt get this feeling after watching the documentary. Kliff said something to the effect of that if you try and cage Johnny too much and give him rules, the more he rebels. Johnny's mom even said there was nothing they could say or do to discipline him after he comes home from partying with Drake and celebrities.

JFF was on another level when he was in college, and Im sure Kliff and Sumlin knew they had to toe a fine line with him or else he would explode.

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They could bench him and reward players who show up to practice and sober for games.

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No thanks, I'll take the dominant generational talent who wins while simultaneously being the most entertaining player on the planet, instead.

Seanzy2012 said:

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rootube said:

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Some other observations.

Manziel's dad blamed A&M for not being tough enough on him like they were at Tivy in one breath and then talked about the family going along with his cover stories and laundering money in the next.

It wasn't a great look for Kingsbury in this this show. He basically admitted Johnny was allowed to do anything he wanted as long as he won games. No wonder Sumlin didn't agree to talk to them.

I like how they conveniently skipped the LSU game in the story arc.

The most entertaining part was his poor agent who tried to keep him on track through the workouts and combine.

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The agent seemed like the only one trying to get Johnny straight.

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Ha, his poor agent

The only one trying to get him straight

He directly profits the MOST by tricking some NFL team into drafting him at a higher position

That is his job

Ugly said:

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My biggest takeaway from watching the documentary is how important it is to have a team shrink. There's no telling whether any of it would have stuck, but the blind eye our staff turned to Johnny's mental issues was a really bad look from my perspective. Even if you ignore the human component of giving the care needed to a guy raking in millions for you, it's pretty obvious to see how this behavior destroyed our locker room for years to come. Watch this documentary and you can easily see the foundation laid for Kenny Hill to pass out in a planter before the Alabama game just a year after Johnny left.

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I honestly think this movie is a black eye on the former football program and the school. I wonder if A&M will respond. It was the #1 Movie on Netflix all day yesterday. I see why he waited to do a "tell all" until after he was inducted into the Hall of Fame. The stuff that was going on with him while he was here was shocking, especially the coaches allowing him to do whatever he wanted instead of actually helping him to be accountable. So sad!

None of this is shocking or unknown.

phillytex24 said:

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Ugly said:

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My biggest takeaway from watching the documentary is how important it is to have a team shrink. There's no telling whether any of it would have stuck, but the blind eye our staff turned to Johnny's mental issues was a really bad look from my perspective. Even if you ignore the human component of giving the care needed to a guy raking in millions for you, it's pretty obvious to see how this behavior destroyed our locker room for years to come. Watch this documentary and you can easily see the foundation laid for Kenny Hill to pass out in a planter before the Alabama game just a year after Johnny left.

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I honestly think this movie is a black eye on the former football program and the school. I wonder if A&M will respond. It was the #1 Movie on Netflix all day yesterday. I see why he waited to do a "tell all" until after he was inducted into the Hall of Fame. The stuff that was going on with him while he was here was shocking, especially the coaches allowing him to do whatever he wanted instead of actually helping him to be accountable. So sad!

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I enjoyed the show. Tough path. Wish we'd won an NC.

It was sad to see the rally where Chace Murphy introduced Johnny.

jb 00 said:

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Seanzy2012 said:

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rootube said:

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Some other observations.

Manziel's dad blamed A&M for not being tough enough on him like they were at Tivy in one breath and then talked about the family going along with his cover stories and laundering money in the next.

It wasn't a great look for Kingsbury in this this show. He basically admitted Johnny was allowed to do anything he wanted as long as he won games. No wonder Sumlin didn't agree to talk to them.

I like how they conveniently skipped the LSU game in the story arc.

The most entertaining part was his poor agent who tried to keep him on track through the workouts and combine.

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The agent seemed like the only one trying to get Johnny straight.

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Ha, his poor agent

The only one trying to get him straight

He directly profits the MOST by tricking some NFL team into drafting him at a higher position

That is his job

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Ah, yes. His agent who tried to get him straight then still covered for him when Johnny screwed up. He was just another enabler who stood to profit from Johnny.

Frag said:

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None of this is shocking or unknown.

phillytex24 said:

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Ugly said:

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My biggest takeaway from watching the documentary is how important it is to have a team shrink. There's no telling whether any of it would have stuck, but the blind eye our staff turned to Johnny's mental issues was a really bad look from my perspective. Even if you ignore the human component of giving the care needed to a guy raking in millions for you, it's pretty obvious to see how this behavior destroyed our locker room for years to come. Watch this documentary and you can easily see the foundation laid for Kenny Hill to pass out in a planter before the Alabama game just a year after Johnny left.

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I honestly think this movie is a black eye on the former football program and the school. I wonder if A&M will respond. It was the #1 Movie on Netflix all day yesterday. I see why he waited to do a "tell all" until after he was inducted into the Hall of Fame. The stuff that was going on with him while he was here was shocking, especially the coaches allowing him to do whatever he wanted instead of actually helping him to be accountable. So sad!

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For my family it was shocking. We heard the rumors about his partying but we just didn't believe it was anything other than a beer or frat party. And we had no clue the extent of the partying here in College Station and the revelation by the coaches that they knew and didn't do anything was hard to swallow.

Also, the hundreds of thousands of dollars he was making and hid under his bed. We were always told he came from a very wealthy family & when he explained that they made that story up to hide all the stuff he was buying with the illegal money, well, we were shocked.

I thought the movie would be a shining light on Texas A&M, but it really was very shocking in that it was hyper negative. I hope to see A&M's official response to it.

UNTOLD: Johnny Football is still the NUMBER ONE movie in the nation on Netflix for the second day in a row. This is huge exposure for A&M and it's not very positive. It's sad. Just glad Johnny is doing so much better these days.

barstoolexpert said:

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Please don't paint Texas A&M in a bad light

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Too late for that!

Everyone I know who's watched this, including a UT guy, has loved the sh*t out of it. "He was everything I'd hoped he was"

This is only growing his legend and nobody gives a rip that the coaches (not the athletic dept) let it happen.

This is a non-issue when it comes to a black eye on the program. Everyone has moved on, especially since a lot worse has happened elsewhere in the past ten years.. And everyone to a man agreed at the time that he deserved to monetize his success.

phillytex24 said:

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Frag said:

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None of this is shocking or unknown.

phillytex24 said:

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Ugly said:

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My biggest takeaway from watching the documentary is how important it is to have a team shrink. There's no telling whether any of it would have stuck, but the blind eye our staff turned to Johnny's mental issues was a really bad look from my perspective. Even if you ignore the human component of giving the care needed to a guy raking in millions for you, it's pretty obvious to see how this behavior destroyed our locker room for years to come. Watch this documentary and you can easily see the foundation laid for Kenny Hill to pass out in a planter before the Alabama game just a year after Johnny left.

---

I honestly think this movie is a black eye on the former football program and the school. I wonder if A&M will respond. It was the #1 Movie on Netflix all day yesterday. I see why he waited to do a "tell all" until after he was inducted into the Hall of Fame. The stuff that was going on with him while he was here was shocking, especially the coaches allowing him to do whatever he wanted instead of actually helping him to be accountable. So sad!

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For my family it was shocking. We heard the rumors about his partying but we just didn't believe it was anything other than a beer or frat party. And we had no clue the extent of the partying here in College Station and the revelation by the coaches that they knew and didn't do anything was hard to swallow.

Also, the hundreds of thousands of dollars he was making and hid under his bed. We were always told he came from a very wealthy family & when he explained that they made that story up to hide all the stuff he was buying with the illegal money, well, we were shocked.

I thought the movie would be a shining light on Texas A&M, but it really was very shocking in that it was hyper negative. I hope to see A&M's official response to it.

UNTOLD: Johnny Football is still the NUMBER ONE movie in the nation on Netflix for the second day in a row. This is huge exposure for A&M and it's not very positive. It's sad. Just glad Johnny is doing so much better these days.

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There was nothing illegal about the money. Don't confuse the NCAA with statutory laws. They are a non-profit association of which we are a members whose rules we agree to follow, but there was nothing federally, state, or locally illegal about where Johnny got that money. Ten years after the fact the SCOTUS has said he was entitled to earn it.

bmks270 said:

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ea1060 said:

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Seanzy2012 said:

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I did come out of that documentary thinking that Sumlin and Kliff didn't really care about Johnny. They knew what they could get out of him, and man did both of them profit from it. Let the kid be a danger to himself, as long as he scores touchdowns.

Not taking away fault from Johnny, but when I was his age I still had a monkey brain that just wanted to drink beer and chase women.

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I didnt get this feeling after watching the documentary. Kliff said something to the effect of that if you try and cage Johnny too much and give him rules, the more he rebels. Johnny's mom even said there was nothing they could say or do to discipline him after he comes home from partying with Drake and celebrities.

JFF was on another level when he was in college, and Im sure Kliff and Sumlin knew they had to toe a fine line with him or else he would explode.

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They could bench him and reward players who show up to practice and sober for games.

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You don't bench the best player in the country.

IslanderAg04 said:

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You don't bench the best player in the country.

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Best player of all time.

I don't entirely buy the narrative about them concocting a total lie about the Manziel family's wealth.

Manziel is a household name in Tyler. They own land, car dealerships, entertainment venues, restaurants, etc. Anyone who lives in Tyler long enough knows their name. Johnny's grandad has been busted for running a drug ring, cockfighting, and who knows what else. But they own a lot stuff (and yes, have almost certainly received a fat chunk of oil and gas lease royalties over the years). Maybe they exaggerated just how wealthy the family is, but they were known to have plenty of resources long before Johnny became a celebrity.

phillytex24 said:

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Frag said:

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None of this is shocking or unknown.

phillytex24 said:

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Ugly said:

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My biggest takeaway from watching the documentary is how important it is to have a team shrink. There's no telling whether any of it would have stuck, but the blind eye our staff turned to Johnny's mental issues was a really bad look from my perspective. Even if you ignore the human component of giving the care needed to a guy raking in millions for you, it's pretty obvious to see how this behavior destroyed our locker room for years to come. Watch this documentary and you can easily see the foundation laid for Kenny Hill to pass out in a planter before the Alabama game just a year after Johnny left.

---

I honestly think this movie is a black eye on the former football program and the school. I wonder if A&M will respond. It was the #1 Movie on Netflix all day yesterday. I see why he waited to do a "tell all" until after he was inducted into the Hall of Fame. The stuff that was going on with him while he was here was shocking, especially the coaches allowing him to do whatever he wanted instead of actually helping him to be accountable. So sad!

---

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For my family it was shocking. We heard the rumors about his partying but we just didn't believe it was anything other than a beer or frat party. And we had no clue the extent of the partying here in College Station and the revelation by the coaches that they knew and didn't do anything was hard to swallow.

Also, the hundreds of thousands of dollars he was making and hid under his bed. We were always told he came from a very wealthy family & when he explained that they made that story up to hide all the stuff he was buying with the illegal money, well, we were shocked.

I thought the movie would be a shining light on Texas A&M, but it really was very shocking in that it was hyper negative. I hope to see A&M's official response to it.

UNTOLD: Johnny Football is still the NUMBER ONE movie in the nation on Netflix for the second day in a row. This is huge exposure for A&M and it's not very positive. It's sad. Just glad Johnny is doing so much better these days.

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Not surprising that ignorant people are surprised

And here's another shocker for ya: they prob only covered just a mild surface of what was actually happening, and was all already publicized previously

It's nothing that hasn't happened before with plenty of others at all levels of sports, he was just under heavier scrutiny cause of how great he was on the field and polarizing as a character

I enjoyed it. Really needed more detail.

Can you imagine the stuff we don't know?

Social media in 2012-2013 was really taking off as well as the 24/7 news cycle. I wonder if the exact same situation played out today how different Johnny & the people around him would have handled it all.

I remember an interview with his high school coach saying something to the effect of Johnny having the potential of being great if he didn't blow things up/implode (I don't remember how he worded it). This was before he played a down at A&M. JFF's raw talent got him past undesirable behavior from early on (IMO).

Agree with everything except your last sentence. The Supreme Court case specifically did not deal with NIL.

Delete everything, but as I said earlier, I don't see how any person can look back and think it was wrong for Manziel to get paid for autographs. It was ridiculous, then, and even more so in hindsight. There really is no rational basis to keep kids from making money on NIL

Scotts Tot said:

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I don't entirely buy the narrative about them concocting a total lie about the Manziel family's wealth.

Manziel is a household name in Tyler. They own land, car dealerships, entertainment venues, restaurants, etc. Anyone who lives in Tyler long enough knows their name. Johnny's grandad has been busted for running a drug ring, cockfighting, and who knows what else. But they own a lot stuff (and yes, have almost certainly received a fat chunk of oil and gas lease royalties over the years). Maybe they exaggerated just how wealthy the family is, but they were known to have plenty of resources long before Johnny became a celebrity.

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Owning lots of stuff doesn't actually make you wealthy, and it doesn't mean they're old oil money, which was claimed and everyone bought. I can't tell you how many times I heard that from others. It was a brilliant scheme!

I'm most shocked at how so many are willing to ignore the Aggie values here. The problem was the coaching staff then. They should've coached him. He was missing practices, stealing, lying, the entire gambit. They failed Johnny.

So what exactly happened between Nate and Johnny?

GW Ag said:

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So what exactly happened between Nate and Johnny?

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Johnny just cut the friendship off without any warning when his NFL agent entered the picture. They never talked again.

I'm betting there is more to it than that. You don't cut ties with your best friend because your agent that you don't listen to anyways says so.

Frisco said:

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I'm betting there is more to it than that. You don't cut ties with your best friend because your agent that you don't listen to anyways says so.

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Gotta be. Granted it is a media production and could be heavily skewed, but the way that segment is presented in the documentary it seems like Nate was/is pretty upset about it, while Johnny didn't seem as bothered by it.

phillytex24 said:

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GW Ag said:

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So what exactly happened between Nate and Johnny?

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Johnny just cut the friendship off without any warning when his NFL agent entered the picture. They never talked again.

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Not exactly, they secretly got back together to create this new narrative for the documentary. If you learned anything from the documentary, it's that maybe you shouldn't take everything they say at face value.

I thought it was odd that in the documentary they just kinda glossed over that breakup.

THE_CHOSEN_ONE said:

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phillytex24 said:

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GW Ag said:

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So what exactly happened between Nate and Johnny?

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Johnny just cut the friendship off without any warning when his NFL agent entered the picture. They never talked again.

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Not exactly, they secretly got back together to create this new narrative for the documentary. If you learned anything from the documentary, it's that maybe you shouldn't take everything they say at face value.

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Who knows what we should believe then. Seems like a lot of lies and cheating. So sad!

phillytex24 said:

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Scotts Tot said:

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I don't entirely buy the narrative about them concocting a total lie about the Manziel family's wealth.

Manziel is a household name in Tyler. They own land, car dealerships, entertainment venues, restaurants, etc. Anyone who lives in Tyler long enough knows their name. Johnny's grandad has been busted for running a drug ring, cockfighting, and who knows what else. But they own a lot stuff (and yes, have almost certainly received a fat chunk of oil and gas lease royalties over the years). Maybe they exaggerated just how wealthy the family is, but they were known to have plenty of resources long before Johnny became a celebrity.

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Owning lots of stuff doesn't actually make you wealthy, and it doesn't mean they're old oil money, which was claimed and everyone bought. I can't tell you how many times I heard that from others. It was a brilliant scheme!

I'm most shocked at how so many are willing to ignore the Aggie values here. The problem was the coaching staff then. They should've coached him. He was missing practices, stealing, lying, the entire gambit. They failed Johnny.

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The only reason it worked to launder the cash through Johnny's grandad was because so many people knew about the Manziel family already, so none of the shady activity would be surprising. I didn't say they were billionaires. I said they have resources. Folks around Tyler think of them like the East Texas mafia (at least previous generations). As I said previously, they probably exaggerated reality, but it only worked because there was a kernel of truth in it.

phillytex24 said:

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Scotts Tot said:

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I don't entirely buy the narrative about them concocting a total lie about the Manziel family's wealth.

Manziel is a household name in Tyler. They own land, car dealerships, entertainment venues, restaurants, etc. Anyone who lives in Tyler long enough knows their name. Johnny's grandad has been busted for running a drug ring, cockfighting, and who knows what else. But they own a lot stuff (and yes, have almost certainly received a fat chunk of oil and gas lease royalties over the years). Maybe they exaggerated just how wealthy the family is, but they were known to have plenty of resources long before Johnny became a celebrity.

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Owning lots of stuff doesn't actually make you wealthy, and it doesn't mean they're old oil money, which was claimed and everyone bought. I can't tell you how many times I heard that from others. It was a brilliant scheme!

I'm most shocked at how so many are willing to ignore the Aggie values here. The problem was the coaching staff then. They should've coached him. He was missing practices, stealing, lying, the entire gambit. They failed Johnny.

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This. JFF said it himself, that they sold the idea that his family had a lot more money than they really had. I dont know any "trust fund" kids whose father worked as a GM of a car dealership.

phillytex24 said:

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Frag said:

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None of this is shocking or unknown.

phillytex24 said:

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Ugly said:

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My biggest takeaway from watching the documentary is how important it is to have a team shrink. There's no telling whether any of it would have stuck, but the blind eye our staff turned to Johnny's mental issues was a really bad look from my perspective. Even if you ignore the human component of giving the care needed to a guy raking in millions for you, it's pretty obvious to see how this behavior destroyed our locker room for years to come. Watch this documentary and you can easily see the foundation laid for Kenny Hill to pass out in a planter before the Alabama game just a year after Johnny left.

---

I honestly think this movie is a black eye on the former football program and the school. I wonder if A&M will respond. It was the #1 Movie on Netflix all day yesterday. I see why he waited to do a "tell all" until after he was inducted into the Hall of Fame. The stuff that was going on with him while he was here was shocking, especially the coaches allowing him to do whatever he wanted instead of actually helping him to be accountable. So sad!

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For my family it was shocking. We heard the rumors about his partying but we just didn't believe it was anything other than a beer or frat party. And we had no clue the extent of the partying here in College Station and the revelation by the coaches that they knew and didn't do anything was hard to swallow.

Also, the hundreds of thousands of dollars he was making and hid under his bed. We were always told he came from a very wealthy family & when he explained that they made that story up to hide all the stuff he was buying with the illegal money, well, we were shocked.

I thought the movie would be a shining light on Texas A&M, but it really was very shocking in that it was hyper negative. I hope to see A&M's official response to it.

UNTOLD: Johnny Football is still the NUMBER ONE movie in the nation on Netflix for the second day in a row. This is huge exposure for A&M and it's not very positive. It's sad. Just glad Johnny is doing so much better these days.

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What were you expecting, that the Browns give him a second chance and he wins a Super Bowl? I just hope he can move on with his life and we don't have a Johnny Football untold story 2.

Johnny was always good with the media as well...which makes me question his sincerity in his pro-A&M comments and support these days. I hope the guy has found peace and gotten the demons worked out, but is the whole "I couldn't wait to get out of college station when I was playing, but now I can't wait to get back" stuff actually genuine or just a PR thing to support the new bar venture?

Sumlin lost control of Netflix.

Definitely Not A Cop said:

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Sumlin lost control of Netflix.

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Why did it take 7 pages for this response?