The first point is spot on. Durkin never once adjusted off his awful scheme. Just because App State only scored 17. Isn't the point. They controlled the game and the d could never get off the field. Sure the offense was awful. But app state ran 80 plays. And was happy to just eat clock as Durkin just let them. Time and time again the d couldn't get a stop.
Durkin's D
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Last: 3 yr ago by Batman96
aggieland09 said:
The only reason we have the #1 pass d is teams never needed to pass to win, even ap state. That's how horrible our run d was.
The question is, why does a #1 pass defense and an almost last place rush defense come out to a #26 scoring defense?
My favorite is how he smiles on the sideline while our run defense is getting shredded by inferior talent
Beat40 said:aggieland09 said:
The only reason we have the #1 pass d is teams never needed to pass to win, even ap state. That's how horrible our run d was.
The question is, why does a #1 pass defense and an almost last place rush defense come out to a #26 scoring defense?
Mainly because we only gave up 0 and 3 points against the two worst teams we played. If you throw those out, we would've given up 24.5 ppg which would've tied us at 53rd with TCU.
Yeah, I realize that is cherry picking the stats. But when you are talking ordinal rankings instead of absolute figures, small things like that can cause large shifts.
It's kind of like RPI. People always look at the rankings and not the actual RPI when there could be a huge gap between two teams and then a bunch with virtually the same RPI.
Did you take out TCU's against the two worst teams they played? If not, what would TCU have been if you did that?Emilio Fantastico said:Beat40 said:aggieland09 said:
The only reason we have the #1 pass d is teams never needed to pass to win, even ap state. That's how horrible our run d was.
The question is, why does a #1 pass defense and an almost last place rush defense come out to a #26 scoring defense?
Mainly because we only gave up 0 and 3 points against the two worst teams we played. If you throw those out, we would've given up 24.5 ppg which would've tied us at 53rd with TCU.
Yeah, I realize that is cherry picking the stats. But when you are talking ordinal rankings instead of absolute figures, small things like that can cause large shifts.
It's kind of like RPI. People always look at the rankings and not the actual RPI when there could be a huge gap between two teams and then a bunch with virtually the same RPI.
Every power 5 school plays at least 1 bad team on their schedule. I think it's fair to look at the numbers as a whole from that regard since the ordinal rankings are taking them into account.
I get the point you're making and don't necessarily disagree that you have to dig deeper. Even if you limit it to in conference teams it's hard to compare as not having to play Georgia and Tennessee this year would cause a huge shift in numbers.
We were terrible at some things and great at others. Year 2 should give better data. I think this year was an outlier.
i think there is some Chicken or The Egg here.. i do think the O was bad… and D pretty bad… not sure i'd solely blame one on the other.. Go back and look at game 2 App State.. App had drives of 15 and 13 plays in the first half (D was healthy).. can't blame all that on the offense… that 13 play drive went for 38 yards.. how is that possible?? it's possible with a Durkin defense.. second half vs App they had drives of 11 and 18 plays… can't put that all on our bad O…. yes O was very bad vs App.. but the D was not good either… just one game
MROD92 said:
My favorite is how he smiles on the sideline while our run defense is getting shredded by inferior talent
Why do people keep bringing this up? It is clearly a nervous reaction. Everyone has one, and his manifests in what appears to be a smile. There are multitudes of things to knock Durkin about, but focusing on the nervous smile is starting to get over played here.
Stinky T said:MROD92 said:
My favorite is how he smiles on the sideline while our run defense is getting shredded by inferior talent
Why do people keep bringing this up? It is clearly a nervous reaction. Everyone has one, and his manifests in what appears to be a smile. There are multitudes of things to knock Durkin about, but focusing on the nervous smile is starting to get over played here.
You are correct but I'll be honest when we give up a 20 yard run on third and 8 and they pan to Durkin smiling on the sideline I'm filled with rage anyway.
bulverdeaggie93 said:
i think there is some Chicken or The Egg here.. i do think the O was bad… and D pretty bad… not sure i'd solely blame one on the other.. Go back and look at game 2 App State.. App had drives of 15 and 13 plays in the first half (D was healthy).. can't blame all that on the offense… that 13 play drive went for 38 yards.. how is that possible?? it's possible with a Durkin defense.. second half vs App they had drives of 11 and 18 plays… can't put that all on our bad O…. yes O was very bad vs App.. but the D was not good either… just one game
Of the FBS DI schools on the schedule:
The defense faced 7 top 50 scoring offenses in 11 games.
The offense faced 2 top 50 scoring defenses in 11 games.
The defense by far had the tougher schedule.
If our offense would have just been 65th overall, the record would have been 8-4.
If the offense would have had the same scoring offense rank as the scoring defense rank, 26th, we ould ahve been 10-2.
So yes, you can almost solely blame this season's poor results on the offense.
We keep talking about App State - the offense only had 1 drive over 3:20 minutes, and that was the last drive of the game. The defense certainly should have gotten off the field sooner, no question. But the offense was just as good as App State's offense of keeping our defense on the field.
cherry pick certain stats all day if people want… was the defense horrible? no… were they good? no… it could be said if the defense makes one stop against App, we win 14-10
Understand. But I just don't think it is relevant in a discussion about his performance as a defensive coordinator.
Thought ^^^ many, many times this year. But, I'd add the DB's (and most everyone else on the D for that matter) really need to work on tackling. May be a function of youth, but it was painful to watch.Meximan said:
Grammar isn't great but this is all pretty spot on. Durkin basically had only 4 men in the box every single game of the year, often even less than that. Offenses literally only needed their basic 5 men to have a numbers advantage. That's setting your defense up to fail.
The pass defense looked better because the Aggies had Vikings Syndrome; about a decade back, the Vikings had such an outstanding defensive line that teams just could not run on them. So what did they do? They passed it, and they passed it a lot; that team wound up with the #1 rush defense but almost the worst pass defense.
Give some credit where it's due, however; A&M really does have a lot of outstanding corners and safeties on the roster, and most are really, really young. You could torch most of them, but you weren't going to do it twice. If Durkin would just go to a 4-2-5 alignment the pass rush and coverage would align correctly. Edge Cooper is the real f&&&in' deal and he should be leveraged, not left on an island.
I also wonder how much of what we saw resulted from Durkin trying to "hide" weak LB play? You know...sticking the worst fielding kid in RF in little league.
Is it cherry picking to say the defense has a much harder schedule than the offense?bulverdeaggie93 said:
cherry pick certain stats all day if people want… was the defense horrible? no… were they good? no… it could be said if the defense makes one stop against App, we win 17-10
It could also be said if the offense didn't fumble twice in the App State game, we win by whatever score.
I don't care much about the App State game. That was a bad game for both sides of the ball. The overall season trends pretty clearly show the offense was most responsible for the season's poor performance.
Bill Superman said:
After countless threads calling for Durkin's head, the zoo never fails to miss the mark. Y'all continue to show a complete lack of football knowledge with all of the failed Durkin takes.
The only legitimate gripe is the overused 3 man front which had a lot to do with our run D not being so great, not to mention our lack of LB's on the roster.
Literally everything else was above par all things considered. The #1 pass D in cfb. #26 scoring defense. The lack of LB talent, our Injury plagued issues, depth issues and extreme youth - none of these problems are Durkin's fault. Not to mention the O was among the worst all season and kept our D on the field the entire game.
The results are far from fireable. He deserves another year at minimum, but any amount of progress would give us more than solid results.
All that being said, please don't change, we need the entertainment.
I was in the fire durkin wagon after the ole miss game, but for the reasons you mentioned he should get another year
If the offense improves to even an average offense and durkins d improves slightly, the 2023 team will win a lot of games
Gotta get that run defense shored up , though
That's the key to this d going to another level
Cut the rushing yards allowed in half and we've got a great d
Sorry about the grammar, I typed that on a phone. I am honesty amazed it wasn't more of a grammar nightmare. That last bit you wrote I completely agree with, we have great secondary players and Cooper is great as well.Meximan said:Grammar isn't great but this is all pretty spot on. Durkin basically had only 4 men in the box every single game of the year, often even less than that. Offenses literally only needed their basic 5 men to have a numbers advantage. That's setting your defense up to fail.btglow87 said:
Watching Durkin's defense is literally painful.
Why? He runs a 3-2-6 and his adjustment off of it is a 4-1-6. He will not take the overhang safeties (what is typically OLB in a 50 or 3-4) off the field for any reason ever. He also has those overhang safeties tied to #2 (the inside receiver) which is also why Kiffin did wide bunch sets to remove them from the alley where he wanted to run it. Kiffin also ran Dart (pull the tackle) over 15 times in that game because we have no edge defenders.
If you line up like cones you will get treated like cones. I have never seen a DC with some much talent... have said talent get treated like cones. Its embarrassing..... Key game this was incredible true was App State.... they got in Trips with a tight end numb opposite ( 3 wide outs one way and just a tightend the other way) would see where they had numbers and either run the play that way, motion to get what they wanted, or boot action to the uncounted flat (that over and over completion to the tightend). Ohhh they didn't score that much ... ohhh I am sorry the team with a nut hair worth of talent compared to us didn't score much... wow what a job DJ ... oh wait they ran 80 plays and controlled the game and won.
He leaves gaps uncounted for often.... oh oh I am sorry he has backers 2 gapping or multiple interior guys 2 gapping which is why it looks like a gap wider than gurney's gash when we get ripped. Go watch the the TD run for LSU the other night from from the edge of the redzone.... Have yourself count the gaps and count the interior defenders and math might be hard but I will assure you the numbers of gaps to defenders does not match... I could name a ton of examples but that is a recent one.... while we are on the topic of that game.... the best DC in that game was the OC for LSU.... the fact he kept throwing and having the QB read zone was beyond me...… if the QB would of handed it on the scoop and score.... go look at our interior on that play... the damn running back would of hits his head on the goal post... I will take being lucky but god damn..
Also for you folks hanging your hat on that stellar pass defense... understand this.... Miss State ran for over 150 and they are the epitome of Air Raid...… WHY the hell would you throw it when you know you can run it, move the sticks, keep the other offense on the sideline and shorten the game?
In addition to that, we suck in underneath coverage in zone especially the hook/curl.... and for having 6 DBs on the field and drop 8 regularly.... he still does pattern match which is why we void the middle so often.... like if you are going to drop 8 why the hell are you doing match up man? and having guys turning and running with receiver a in 3 MAN PRESSURE look??? why?....
Speaking of pressure.... his blitzes are the most telegraphed nonsense ever.... and he without fail plays man behind it.... maybe Man Free. I bet most of yall could tell when he was bringing "pressure" and have never drawn a blitz in your life. Alabama comes to mind on this one because they gashed us on pressure in that game.... so did South Carolina.... hell so did everyone else.
The most frustrating thing to me is we have some of the most amazing player we could ever ask for.... yet they are ask to make extraordinal efforts to make routine plays in this defense. It hurts to watch those kids play so *********hard in such a asinine scheme. He got this scheme from Jim Heacock ….. but the problem is he didn't take the run game scheme from him... Jim never leaves inside gaps uncounted for in his 3-3!-5.... because he has 3! at the second level to help fill the edges off of the other 4 inside..... somewhere in going to visit with him while he was at old miss.... that part was lost on him..... What he ask our "lone survivor backer" (what I have decided to call it) to do in his asinine front..... its so ridiculous that even prime Rey Lewis couldn't do it with any regular success....
Which is another problem..... what Linebacker recruit or portal transfer Linebacker is going to watch tape of this defense and say ..."oh ya I wanna play in that..." not many if any would be my guess.....
Since the likelihood of Durkin being fired is out of the picture the only solution I could see is this... Since he has gone in an offseason before to visit with another DC (Heacock of Iowa State), have him go meet with a run heavy 3-3-5 scheme guy since he is married to that scheme.... maybe if he does that, than the defense might improve next year and linebackers might actually want to play for A&M.
Last thing I am sure DJ knows football I don't think he is completely ignorant or he wouldn't be the DC at a major university. But what was put on the field this year was not acceptable and if he is truly a good coach like Jimbo thinks he is than maybe he fixes it.... I just don't see it... hope I am wrong but every week this year my hope disappeared like the defenders responsible for the gaps he never had anyone for.
The pass defense looked better because the Aggies had Vikings Syndrome; about a decade back, the Vikings had such an outstanding defensive line that teams just could not run on them. So what did they do? They passed it, and they passed it a lot; that team wound up with the #1 rush defense but almost the worst pass defense.
Give some credit where it's due, however; A&M really does have a lot of outstanding corners and safeties on the roster, and most are really, really young. You could torch most of them, but you weren't going to do it twice. If Durkin would just go to a 4-2-5 alignment the pass rush and coverage would align correctly. Edge Cooper is the real f&&&in' deal and he should be leveraged, not left on an island.
I am all for us running a 4-2-5 with our personnel, but the problem is getting into a 4-2-5. This past year he wasn't going to go from 6 DBs to 5 DBs. Because to do that, he would have to fundamentally change the basis of his scheme, or that's what I saw. My example is pretty simple, when he switched from the 3-2-6 it was to the 4-1-6 look. The reason being that it doesn't fundamentally change his secondary scheme or his box scheme, it merely adjust 1 defender in the box, that's it. The closest we every got to a true 4-2-5 look was when he started playing Diggs as his stand up end, but even when he did that it was typically a single backer look. Yes, you can put a DB in there and call that your second backer, but that guy wasn't recruited to fill the B gap, shed blockers, or scrap to clear.
And for everyone who says, "we don't have the linebacker depth." Fine how about you run a 5-1-5? How about you take a DB off the field and put 5 D-linemen on the field.... you can even stand the ends and give the threat of them as flat defenders vs the pass.
The point is not that my suggestion is the solution but a good defensive coordinator is willing to adjust himself to his players, and to put them in position to accentuate their strengths while reducing the exposure of their weaknesses. My issue is not only did he not do that, he left players like Cooper in situations that were basically a no win situation. I hated seeing that especially since those kids played theirs hearts out.
Beat40 said:Did you take out TCU's against the two worst teams they played? If not, what would TCU have been if you did that?Emilio Fantastico said:Beat40 said:aggieland09 said:
The only reason we have the #1 pass d is teams never needed to pass to win, even ap state. That's how horrible our run d was.
The question is, why does a #1 pass defense and an almost last place rush defense come out to a #26 scoring defense?
Mainly because we only gave up 0 and 3 points against the two worst teams we played. If you throw those out, we would've given up 24.5 ppg which would've tied us at 53rd with TCU.
Yeah, I realize that is cherry picking the stats. But when you are talking ordinal rankings instead of absolute figures, small things like that can cause large shifts.
It's kind of like RPI. People always look at the rankings and not the actual RPI when there could be a huge gap between two teams and then a bunch with virtually the same RPI.
Every power 5 school plays at least 1 bad team on their schedule. I think it's fair to look at the numbers as a whole from that regard since the ordinal rankings are taking them into account.
I get the point you're making and don't necessarily disagree that you have to dig deeper. Even if you limit it to in conference teams it's hard to compare as not having to play Georgia and Tennessee this year would cause a huge shift in numbers.
TCU is kind of a strange case. I only mentioned them specifically because that where our PPG landed. Their two lowest points allowed games were the sips at 10 (lol) and Colorado at 13. They gave up17 to Tarleton who one might consider the patsy on their schedule. So sure, their PPG was helped a little by playing a patsy, but by less than a point per game whereas our two patsy games improved our PPG by nearly 4 points.
So yeah, it would take a serious deep dive of every team throwing out patsy games to see where we really ranked but I think it is pretty safe to say that because our defense pretty much shut out the two patsies, it biased our overall PPG standings compared to a lot of other teams.
And to show how bunched up teams are, Utah was 19 at 20.08 ppg and Mizzou was 57 at 25.00 ppg. So you had 29 teams within a little under 5 ppg difference.
3rd and Chavis has nothing on 3rd and Durkin. Could never seem to get off the field when they needed to.
Durkin needs to commit to a 4-2-5 or GTFO! And 4 DL, not 3 DL and an LB. Twisting / stunting an LB lined up at DE into an OL that outweighs him by 60+ pounds is not the same as having 4 DL and having an LB come on a blitz or spy the QB or set the edge.
And this defense was absolutely horrific at setting an edge vs. Bama, Ole Miss, App State, somewhat improved vs. lsu.
And this defense was absolutely horrific at setting an edge vs. Bama, Ole Miss, App State, somewhat improved vs. lsu.
agree 1000%… we stunt and twist waaaaay to much… most times we're still "stunting and twisting" as the RB runs right by us… or the QB is sitting back there with zero pressure
How can see this and the coaches can't?
Like you said, the schemes you mentioned aren't solutions. With our secondary talent, lack of LB's and young DL depth, Durkin's approach only makes sense, at least half of the time.btglow87 said:Sorry about the grammar, I typed that on a phone. I am honesty amazed it wasn't more of a grammar nightmare. That last bit you wrote I completely agree with, we have great secondary players and Cooper is great as well.Meximan said:Grammar isn't great but this is all pretty spot on. Durkin basically had only 4 men in the box every single game of the year, often even less than that. Offenses literally only needed their basic 5 men to have a numbers advantage. That's setting your defense up to fail.btglow87 said:
Watching Durkin's defense is literally painful.
Why? He runs a 3-2-6 and his adjustment off of it is a 4-1-6. He will not take the overhang safeties (what is typically OLB in a 50 or 3-4) off the field for any reason ever. He also has those overhang safeties tied to #2 (the inside receiver) which is also why Kiffin did wide bunch sets to remove them from the alley where he wanted to run it. Kiffin also ran Dart (pull the tackle) over 15 times in that game because we have no edge defenders.
If you line up like cones you will get treated like cones. I have never seen a DC with some much talent... have said talent get treated like cones. Its embarrassing..... Key game this was incredible true was App State.... they got in Trips with a tight end numb opposite ( 3 wide outs one way and just a tightend the other way) would see where they had numbers and either run the play that way, motion to get what they wanted, or boot action to the uncounted flat (that over and over completion to the tightend). Ohhh they didn't score that much ... ohhh I am sorry the team with a nut hair worth of talent compared to us didn't score much... wow what a job DJ ... oh wait they ran 80 plays and controlled the game and won.
He leaves gaps uncounted for often.... oh oh I am sorry he has backers 2 gapping or multiple interior guys 2 gapping which is why it looks like a gap wider than gurney's gash when we get ripped. Go watch the the TD run for LSU the other night from from the edge of the redzone.... Have yourself count the gaps and count the interior defenders and math might be hard but I will assure you the numbers of gaps to defenders does not match... I could name a ton of examples but that is a recent one.... while we are on the topic of that game.... the best DC in that game was the OC for LSU.... the fact he kept throwing and having the QB read zone was beyond me...… if the QB would of handed it on the scoop and score.... go look at our interior on that play... the damn running back would of hits his head on the goal post... I will take being lucky but god damn..
Also for you folks hanging your hat on that stellar pass defense... understand this.... Miss State ran for over 150 and they are the epitome of Air Raid...… WHY the hell would you throw it when you know you can run it, move the sticks, keep the other offense on the sideline and shorten the game?
In addition to that, we suck in underneath coverage in zone especially the hook/curl.... and for having 6 DBs on the field and drop 8 regularly.... he still does pattern match which is why we void the middle so often.... like if you are going to drop 8 why the hell are you doing match up man? and having guys turning and running with receiver a in 3 MAN PRESSURE look??? why?....
Speaking of pressure.... his blitzes are the most telegraphed nonsense ever.... and he without fail plays man behind it.... maybe Man Free. I bet most of yall could tell when he was bringing "pressure" and have never drawn a blitz in your life. Alabama comes to mind on this one because they gashed us on pressure in that game.... so did South Carolina.... hell so did everyone else.
The most frustrating thing to me is we have some of the most amazing player we could ever ask for.... yet they are ask to make extraordinal efforts to make routine plays in this defense. It hurts to watch those kids play so *********hard in such a asinine scheme. He got this scheme from Jim Heacock ….. but the problem is he didn't take the run game scheme from him... Jim never leaves inside gaps uncounted for in his 3-3!-5.... because he has 3! at the second level to help fill the edges off of the other 4 inside..... somewhere in going to visit with him while he was at old miss.... that part was lost on him..... What he ask our "lone survivor backer" (what I have decided to call it) to do in his asinine front..... its so ridiculous that even prime Rey Lewis couldn't do it with any regular success....
Which is another problem..... what Linebacker recruit or portal transfer Linebacker is going to watch tape of this defense and say ..."oh ya I wanna play in that..." not many if any would be my guess.....
Since the likelihood of Durkin being fired is out of the picture the only solution I could see is this... Since he has gone in an offseason before to visit with another DC (Heacock of Iowa State), have him go meet with a run heavy 3-3-5 scheme guy since he is married to that scheme.... maybe if he does that, than the defense might improve next year and linebackers might actually want to play for A&M.
Last thing I am sure DJ knows football I don't think he is completely ignorant or he wouldn't be the DC at a major university. But what was put on the field this year was not acceptable and if he is truly a good coach like Jimbo thinks he is than maybe he fixes it.... I just don't see it... hope I am wrong but every week this year my hope disappeared like the defenders responsible for the gaps he never had anyone for.
The pass defense looked better because the Aggies had Vikings Syndrome; about a decade back, the Vikings had such an outstanding defensive line that teams just could not run on them. So what did they do? They passed it, and they passed it a lot; that team wound up with the #1 rush defense but almost the worst pass defense.
Give some credit where it's due, however; A&M really does have a lot of outstanding corners and safeties on the roster, and most are really, really young. You could torch most of them, but you weren't going to do it twice. If Durkin would just go to a 4-2-5 alignment the pass rush and coverage would align correctly. Edge Cooper is the real f&&&in' deal and he should be leveraged, not left on an island.
I am all for us running a 4-2-5 with our personnel, but the problem is getting into a 4-2-5. This past year he wasn't going to go from 6 DBs to 5 DBs. Because to do that, he would have to fundamentally change the basis of his scheme, or that's what I saw. My example is pretty simple, when he switched from the 3-2-6 it was to the 4-1-6 look. The reason being that it doesn't fundamentally change his secondary scheme or his box scheme, it merely adjust 1 defender in the box, that's it. The closest we every got to a true 4-2-5 look was when he started playing Diggs as his stand up end, but even when he did that it was typically a single backer look. Yes, you can put a DB in there and call that your second backer, but that guy wasn't recruited to fill the B gap, shed blockers, or scrap to clear.
And for everyone who says, "we don't have the linebacker depth." Fine how about you run a 5-1-5? How about you take a DB off the field and put 5 D-linemen on the field.... you can even stand the ends and give the threat of them as flat defenders vs the pass.
The point is not that my suggestion is the solution but a good defensive coordinator is willing to adjust himself to his players, and to put them in position to accentuate their strengths while reducing the exposure of their weaknesses. My issue is not only did he not do that, he left players like Cooper in situations that were basically a no win situation. I hated seeing that especially since those kids played theirs hearts out.
If we don't pick up some LB talent in the portal this off-season then I'm going to be worried.
Durkin certainly sees his weaknesses from this season or he wouldn't be a P5 D coordinator. I expect to see some schematic changes that reflect the roster talent next season and a much improved run D. Just don't expect the pass D to be the best again.
Leaving gaps uncounted for never makes sense.... ever. Yes the scheme I mentioned isn't THE solution but its A solution to the problem as an example. The problem with your position is Durkin didn't offer a single solution outside of 4-1-6 instead of his base 3-2-6. Which again doesn't change anything outside one individual from the second level to the first level and keeps the box numerically the same. You still only have 5 defenders for 6 gaps (C/B/A/A/B/C). That's if they don't have a tightend or even worse a tightend wing.... which many teams did and we didn't offer up any more defenders to the front..... why????? Because he won't take 1 of 6 DBs off the field.... if the excuse is that we don't have the linebacker depth then why not put 5 defensive linemen on the field? and stand the two ends as traditional 50 (3-4) ends? Elko's base, which a lot of yall tend to forget, was a 50 (3-4) front when he got here. He adjusted to a more 4-2-5 look because he was a good DC and adapted his scheme to the personnel he had.Bill Superman said:Like you said, the schemes you mentioned aren't solutions. With our secondary talent, lack of LB's and young DL depth, Durkin's approach only makes sense, at least half of the time.btglow87 said:Sorry about the grammar, I typed that on a phone. I am honesty amazed it wasn't more of a grammar nightmare. That last bit you wrote I completely agree with, we have great secondary players and Cooper is great as well.Meximan said:Grammar isn't great but this is all pretty spot on. Durkin basically had only 4 men in the box every single game of the year, often even less than that. Offenses literally only needed their basic 5 men to have a numbers advantage. That's setting your defense up to fail.btglow87 said:
Watching Durkin's defense is literally painful.
Why? He runs a 3-2-6 and his adjustment off of it is a 4-1-6. He will not take the overhang safeties (what is typically OLB in a 50 or 3-4) off the field for any reason ever. He also has those overhang safeties tied to #2 (the inside receiver) which is also why Kiffin did wide bunch sets to remove them from the alley where he wanted to run it. Kiffin also ran Dart (pull the tackle) over 15 times in that game because we have no edge defenders.
If you line up like cones you will get treated like cones. I have never seen a DC with some much talent... have said talent get treated like cones. Its embarrassing..... Key game this was incredible true was App State.... they got in Trips with a tight end numb opposite ( 3 wide outs one way and just a tightend the other way) would see where they had numbers and either run the play that way, motion to get what they wanted, or boot action to the uncounted flat (that over and over completion to the tightend). Ohhh they didn't score that much ... ohhh I am sorry the team with a nut hair worth of talent compared to us didn't score much... wow what a job DJ ... oh wait they ran 80 plays and controlled the game and won.
He leaves gaps uncounted for often.... oh oh I am sorry he has backers 2 gapping or multiple interior guys 2 gapping which is why it looks like a gap wider than gurney's gash when we get ripped. Go watch the the TD run for LSU the other night from from the edge of the redzone.... Have yourself count the gaps and count the interior defenders and math might be hard but I will assure you the numbers of gaps to defenders does not match... I could name a ton of examples but that is a recent one.... while we are on the topic of that game.... the best DC in that game was the OC for LSU.... the fact he kept throwing and having the QB read zone was beyond me...… if the QB would of handed it on the scoop and score.... go look at our interior on that play... the damn running back would of hits his head on the goal post... I will take being lucky but god damn..
Also for you folks hanging your hat on that stellar pass defense... understand this.... Miss State ran for over 150 and they are the epitome of Air Raid...… WHY the hell would you throw it when you know you can run it, move the sticks, keep the other offense on the sideline and shorten the game?
In addition to that, we suck in underneath coverage in zone especially the hook/curl.... and for having 6 DBs on the field and drop 8 regularly.... he still does pattern match which is why we void the middle so often.... like if you are going to drop 8 why the hell are you doing match up man? and having guys turning and running with receiver a in 3 MAN PRESSURE look??? why?....
Speaking of pressure.... his blitzes are the most telegraphed nonsense ever.... and he without fail plays man behind it.... maybe Man Free. I bet most of yall could tell when he was bringing "pressure" and have never drawn a blitz in your life. Alabama comes to mind on this one because they gashed us on pressure in that game.... so did South Carolina.... hell so did everyone else.
The most frustrating thing to me is we have some of the most amazing player we could ever ask for.... yet they are ask to make extraordinal efforts to make routine plays in this defense. It hurts to watch those kids play so *********hard in such a asinine scheme. He got this scheme from Jim Heacock ….. but the problem is he didn't take the run game scheme from him... Jim never leaves inside gaps uncounted for in his 3-3!-5.... because he has 3! at the second level to help fill the edges off of the other 4 inside..... somewhere in going to visit with him while he was at old miss.... that part was lost on him..... What he ask our "lone survivor backer" (what I have decided to call it) to do in his asinine front..... its so ridiculous that even prime Rey Lewis couldn't do it with any regular success....
Which is another problem..... what Linebacker recruit or portal transfer Linebacker is going to watch tape of this defense and say ..."oh ya I wanna play in that..." not many if any would be my guess.....
Since the likelihood of Durkin being fired is out of the picture the only solution I could see is this... Since he has gone in an offseason before to visit with another DC (Heacock of Iowa State), have him go meet with a run heavy 3-3-5 scheme guy since he is married to that scheme.... maybe if he does that, than the defense might improve next year and linebackers might actually want to play for A&M.
Last thing I am sure DJ knows football I don't think he is completely ignorant or he wouldn't be the DC at a major university. But what was put on the field this year was not acceptable and if he is truly a good coach like Jimbo thinks he is than maybe he fixes it.... I just don't see it... hope I am wrong but every week this year my hope disappeared like the defenders responsible for the gaps he never had anyone for.
The pass defense looked better because the Aggies had Vikings Syndrome; about a decade back, the Vikings had such an outstanding defensive line that teams just could not run on them. So what did they do? They passed it, and they passed it a lot; that team wound up with the #1 rush defense but almost the worst pass defense.
Give some credit where it's due, however; A&M really does have a lot of outstanding corners and safeties on the roster, and most are really, really young. You could torch most of them, but you weren't going to do it twice. If Durkin would just go to a 4-2-5 alignment the pass rush and coverage would align correctly. Edge Cooper is the real f&&&in' deal and he should be leveraged, not left on an island.
I am all for us running a 4-2-5 with our personnel, but the problem is getting into a 4-2-5. This past year he wasn't going to go from 6 DBs to 5 DBs. Because to do that, he would have to fundamentally change the basis of his scheme, or that's what I saw. My example is pretty simple, when he switched from the 3-2-6 it was to the 4-1-6 look. The reason being that it doesn't fundamentally change his secondary scheme or his box scheme, it merely adjust 1 defender in the box, that's it. The closest we every got to a true 4-2-5 look was when he started playing Diggs as his stand up end, but even when he did that it was typically a single backer look. Yes, you can put a DB in there and call that your second backer, but that guy wasn't recruited to fill the B gap, shed blockers, or scrap to clear.
And for everyone who says, "we don't have the linebacker depth." Fine how about you run a 5-1-5? How about you take a DB off the field and put 5 D-linemen on the field.... you can even stand the ends and give the threat of them as flat defenders vs the pass.
The point is not that my suggestion is the solution but a good defensive coordinator is willing to adjust himself to his players, and to put them in position to accentuate their strengths while reducing the exposure of their weaknesses. My issue is not only did he not do that, he left players like Cooper in situations that were basically a no win situation. I hated seeing that especially since those kids played theirs hearts out.
If we don't pick up some LB talent in the portal this off-season then I'm going to be worried.
Durkin certainly sees his weaknesses from this season or he wouldn't be a P5 D coordinator. I expect to see some schematic changes that reflect the roster talent next season and a much improved run D. Just don't expect the pass D to be the best again.
The reason I think Durkin doesn't adjust out of his 6 DB look is … either 1.) He doesn't know how to scheme a front without his 2 overhang safeties, or .. 2.) He is unwilling to believe its a problem at all..... if either are true that's not good.
That adjustment he did this year. (3-2-6 to the 4-1-6).. Looked like a coach who was playing lip service to "trying" a different scheme when in reality he didn't change a damn thing. Look if you want to be optimistic awesome and I am glad you can be. I have seen enough of him here and going back in his past to suck the hope right out of my body.
Final note... We better have the best recruiter ever to sell that front to a linebacker out of the portal because its going to be tough to say the least..... I hope I am totally wrong I really do.
We posted similar numbers in DJ Durkin's first year in 2022 to John Chavis' first year in 2015.
2015: 4th in pass defense (166.3 passing yards allowed per game), 107th in rush defense (213.7 rushing yards allowed per game), 51st in total defense (380.0 total yards allowed per game), and 28th in scoring defnese (22.0 points per game.
2022: 1st in pass defense (156.3 passing yards per game), 124th in rush defense (208.8 rushing yards allowed per game), 54th in total defense (365.0 total yards allowed per game), and 26th in socring defnese (20.67 points allowed per game).
Opponents didn't need to throw much against us, but we allowed 5.73 yards per passing attempt, which ranks 6th in the nation. That's how we finisehd 26th in scoring defense, allowing 20.67 points per game. In summary, Durkin was not great, but he was solid last year. Still, our run defnese must imrpove significantly for our defense to reach the next level. If we can allow 30% less rushing yards per game, our defense will move to the Top 20 in points allowed per game. With an even average offense and a great defense, we should improve to 9-3 or 10-2 in 2023.
2015: 4th in pass defense (166.3 passing yards allowed per game), 107th in rush defense (213.7 rushing yards allowed per game), 51st in total defense (380.0 total yards allowed per game), and 28th in scoring defnese (22.0 points per game.
2022: 1st in pass defense (156.3 passing yards per game), 124th in rush defense (208.8 rushing yards allowed per game), 54th in total defense (365.0 total yards allowed per game), and 26th in socring defnese (20.67 points allowed per game).
Opponents didn't need to throw much against us, but we allowed 5.73 yards per passing attempt, which ranks 6th in the nation. That's how we finisehd 26th in scoring defense, allowing 20.67 points per game. In summary, Durkin was not great, but he was solid last year. Still, our run defnese must imrpove significantly for our defense to reach the next level. If we can allow 30% less rushing yards per game, our defense will move to the Top 20 in points allowed per game. With an even average offense and a great defense, we should improve to 9-3 or 10-2 in 2023.
We allowed just 5.73 passing yards per attempt, which ranks 6th in the nation.Beat40 said:Agsrback12 said:
Opposing defense literally would have hurt themselves had they taken the ball off the line and thrown the ball (other than 3rd and Urkin)
Give up 250 on the ground and get the number 1 pass D because nobody attempted a pass. Genius.
You're right, I don't recall having to defend a pass this season.
I see what you're saying, but surely we didn't recruit the DL class we did only to run the 3 man frontbtglow87 said:Leaving gaps uncounted for never makes sense.... ever. Yes the scheme I mentioned isn't THE solution but its A solution to the problem as an example. The problem with your position is Durkin didn't offer a single solution outside of 4-1-6 instead of his base 3-2-6. Which again doesn't change anything outside one individual from the second level to the first level and keeps the box numerically the same. You still only have 5 defenders for 6 gaps (C/B/A/A/B/C). That's if they don't have a tightend or even worse a tightend wing.... which many teams did and we didn't offer up any more defenders to the front..... why????? Because he won't take 1 of 6 DBs off the field.... if the excuse is that we don't have the linebacker depth then why not put 5 defensive linemen on the field? and stand the two ends as traditional 50 (3-4) ends? Elko's base, which a lot of yall tend to forget, was a 50 (3-4) front when he got here. He adjusted to a more 4-2-5 look because he was a good DC and adapted his scheme to the personnel he had.Bill Superman said:Like you said, the schemes you mentioned aren't solutions. With our secondary talent, lack of LB's and young DL depth, Durkin's approach only makes sense, at least half of the time.btglow87 said:Sorry about the grammar, I typed that on a phone. I am honesty amazed it wasn't more of a grammar nightmare. That last bit you wrote I completely agree with, we have great secondary players and Cooper is great as well.Meximan said:Grammar isn't great but this is all pretty spot on. Durkin basically had only 4 men in the box every single game of the year, often even less than that. Offenses literally only needed their basic 5 men to have a numbers advantage. That's setting your defense up to fail.btglow87 said:
Watching Durkin's defense is literally painful.
Why? He runs a 3-2-6 and his adjustment off of it is a 4-1-6. He will not take the overhang safeties (what is typically OLB in a 50 or 3-4) off the field for any reason ever. He also has those overhang safeties tied to #2 (the inside receiver) which is also why Kiffin did wide bunch sets to remove them from the alley where he wanted to run it. Kiffin also ran Dart (pull the tackle) over 15 times in that game because we have no edge defenders.
If you line up like cones you will get treated like cones. I have never seen a DC with some much talent... have said talent get treated like cones. Its embarrassing..... Key game this was incredible true was App State.... they got in Trips with a tight end numb opposite ( 3 wide outs one way and just a tightend the other way) would see where they had numbers and either run the play that way, motion to get what they wanted, or boot action to the uncounted flat (that over and over completion to the tightend). Ohhh they didn't score that much ... ohhh I am sorry the team with a nut hair worth of talent compared to us didn't score much... wow what a job DJ ... oh wait they ran 80 plays and controlled the game and won.
He leaves gaps uncounted for often.... oh oh I am sorry he has backers 2 gapping or multiple interior guys 2 gapping which is why it looks like a gap wider than gurney's gash when we get ripped. Go watch the the TD run for LSU the other night from from the edge of the redzone.... Have yourself count the gaps and count the interior defenders and math might be hard but I will assure you the numbers of gaps to defenders does not match... I could name a ton of examples but that is a recent one.... while we are on the topic of that game.... the best DC in that game was the OC for LSU.... the fact he kept throwing and having the QB read zone was beyond me...… if the QB would of handed it on the scoop and score.... go look at our interior on that play... the damn running back would of hits his head on the goal post... I will take being lucky but god damn..
Also for you folks hanging your hat on that stellar pass defense... understand this.... Miss State ran for over 150 and they are the epitome of Air Raid...… WHY the hell would you throw it when you know you can run it, move the sticks, keep the other offense on the sideline and shorten the game?
In addition to that, we suck in underneath coverage in zone especially the hook/curl.... and for having 6 DBs on the field and drop 8 regularly.... he still does pattern match which is why we void the middle so often.... like if you are going to drop 8 why the hell are you doing match up man? and having guys turning and running with receiver a in 3 MAN PRESSURE look??? why?....
Speaking of pressure.... his blitzes are the most telegraphed nonsense ever.... and he without fail plays man behind it.... maybe Man Free. I bet most of yall could tell when he was bringing "pressure" and have never drawn a blitz in your life. Alabama comes to mind on this one because they gashed us on pressure in that game.... so did South Carolina.... hell so did everyone else.
The most frustrating thing to me is we have some of the most amazing player we could ever ask for.... yet they are ask to make extraordinal efforts to make routine plays in this defense. It hurts to watch those kids play so *********hard in such a asinine scheme. He got this scheme from Jim Heacock ….. but the problem is he didn't take the run game scheme from him... Jim never leaves inside gaps uncounted for in his 3-3!-5.... because he has 3! at the second level to help fill the edges off of the other 4 inside..... somewhere in going to visit with him while he was at old miss.... that part was lost on him..... What he ask our "lone survivor backer" (what I have decided to call it) to do in his asinine front..... its so ridiculous that even prime Rey Lewis couldn't do it with any regular success....
Which is another problem..... what Linebacker recruit or portal transfer Linebacker is going to watch tape of this defense and say ..."oh ya I wanna play in that..." not many if any would be my guess.....
Since the likelihood of Durkin being fired is out of the picture the only solution I could see is this... Since he has gone in an offseason before to visit with another DC (Heacock of Iowa State), have him go meet with a run heavy 3-3-5 scheme guy since he is married to that scheme.... maybe if he does that, than the defense might improve next year and linebackers might actually want to play for A&M.
Last thing I am sure DJ knows football I don't think he is completely ignorant or he wouldn't be the DC at a major university. But what was put on the field this year was not acceptable and if he is truly a good coach like Jimbo thinks he is than maybe he fixes it.... I just don't see it... hope I am wrong but every week this year my hope disappeared like the defenders responsible for the gaps he never had anyone for.
The pass defense looked better because the Aggies had Vikings Syndrome; about a decade back, the Vikings had such an outstanding defensive line that teams just could not run on them. So what did they do? They passed it, and they passed it a lot; that team wound up with the #1 rush defense but almost the worst pass defense.
Give some credit where it's due, however; A&M really does have a lot of outstanding corners and safeties on the roster, and most are really, really young. You could torch most of them, but you weren't going to do it twice. If Durkin would just go to a 4-2-5 alignment the pass rush and coverage would align correctly. Edge Cooper is the real f&&&in' deal and he should be leveraged, not left on an island.
I am all for us running a 4-2-5 with our personnel, but the problem is getting into a 4-2-5. This past year he wasn't going to go from 6 DBs to 5 DBs. Because to do that, he would have to fundamentally change the basis of his scheme, or that's what I saw. My example is pretty simple, when he switched from the 3-2-6 it was to the 4-1-6 look. The reason being that it doesn't fundamentally change his secondary scheme or his box scheme, it merely adjust 1 defender in the box, that's it. The closest we every got to a true 4-2-5 look was when he started playing Diggs as his stand up end, but even when he did that it was typically a single backer look. Yes, you can put a DB in there and call that your second backer, but that guy wasn't recruited to fill the B gap, shed blockers, or scrap to clear.
And for everyone who says, "we don't have the linebacker depth." Fine how about you run a 5-1-5? How about you take a DB off the field and put 5 D-linemen on the field.... you can even stand the ends and give the threat of them as flat defenders vs the pass.
The point is not that my suggestion is the solution but a good defensive coordinator is willing to adjust himself to his players, and to put them in position to accentuate their strengths while reducing the exposure of their weaknesses. My issue is not only did he not do that, he left players like Cooper in situations that were basically a no win situation. I hated seeing that especially since those kids played theirs hearts out.
If we don't pick up some LB talent in the portal this off-season then I'm going to be worried.
Durkin certainly sees his weaknesses from this season or he wouldn't be a P5 D coordinator. I expect to see some schematic changes that reflect the roster talent next season and a much improved run D. Just don't expect the pass D to be the best again.
The reason I think Durkin doesn't adjust out of his 6 DB look is … either 1.) He doesn't know how to scheme a front without his 2 overhang safeties, or .. 2.) He is unwilling to believe its a problem at all..... if either are true that's not good.
That adjustment he did this year. (3-2-6 to the 4-1-6).. Looked like a coach who was playing lip service to "trying" a different scheme when in reality he didn't change a damn thing. Look if you want to be optimistic awesome and I am glad you can be. I have seen enough of him here and going back in his past to suck the hope right out of my body.
Final note... We better have the best recruiter ever to sell that front to a linebacker out of the portal because its going to be tough to say the least..... I hope I am totally wrong I really do.
forever. Durkin is a respected name in the business and I'm not convinced he runs this scheme if he has the LB's he needs (like Hill) when we clearly had trouble stopping the run. Instead, he opted to try to make teams more one dimensional and have a bend don't break approach that eventually breaks when they are in the field the whole game.
Durkin has a lot to work on, but he deserves the chance after his first season with those results and has a clear area of focus as we build for next season.
That said, what personnel do you propose Durkin run those schemes with that would have kept more points off the board?
Durkin ran this same stuff in his one year at Michigan. This is who Durkin is.
It is going to be the Texas A&M way. Fix the offense and then pretend that we didn't see this coming.
Our amazing offense sits on their helmet because our D can't get off the field. We are giving up 200 yards a game and only give up big plays on 3rd down.
Who saw this coming? Just have to laugh about it.
Our amazing offense sits on their helmet because our D can't get off the field. We are giving up 200 yards a game and only give up big plays on 3rd down.
Who saw this coming? Just have to laugh about it.
Our success and failures all fall at the feet of Jimbo. He should be turning over every stone imaginable by seeking out advice from knowledgeable people, watching NFL tape etc. It's his legacy and if he thinks Durkin will get him a MNC that could be his downfall.
Bill Superman said:
After countless threads calling for Durkin's head, the zoo never fails to miss the mark. Y'all continue to show a complete lack of football knowledge with all of the failed Durkin takes.
The only legitimate gripe is the overused 3 man front which had a lot to do with our run D not being so great, not to mention our lack of LB's on the roster.
Literally everything else was above par all things considered. The #1 pass D in cfb. #26 scoring defense. The lack of LB talent, our Injury plagued issues, depth issues and extreme youth - none of these problems are Durkin's fault. Not to mention the O was among the worst all season and kept our D on the field the entire game.
The results are far from fireable. He deserves another year at minimum, but any amount of progress would give us more than solid results.
All that being said, please don't change, we need the entertainment.
"The only legitimate gripe is the overused 3 man front"
So it is not legitimate to gripe about having a run defense ranked 125th out of 133 at one one of the wealthiest schools in the country that throws millions into coaching and recruiting?
Pardon me for "my complete lack of football knowledge" !!!
Here's another feather in Durkins cap. His defense was on the field so much that it ranked 119th out of 133. Chart is actually offensive time of possession but works both ways.
I can't believe some of you want another year of this.
Quote:
Y'all continue to show a complete lack of football knowledge
I do my best!
Batman96 said:Bill Superman said:
After countless threads calling for Durkin's head, the zoo never fails to miss the mark. Y'all continue to show a complete lack of football knowledge with all of the failed Durkin takes.
The only legitimate gripe is the overused 3 man front which had a lot to do with our run D not being so great, not to mention our lack of LB's on the roster.
Literally everything else was above par all things considered. The #1 pass D in cfb. #26 scoring defense. The lack of LB talent, our Injury plagued issues, depth issues and extreme youth - none of these problems are Durkin's fault. Not to mention the O was among the worst all season and kept our D on the field the entire game.
The results are far from fireable. He deserves another year at minimum, but any amount of progress would give us more than solid results.
All that being said, please don't change, we need the entertainment.
"The only legitimate gripe is the overused 3 man front"
So it is not legitimate to gripe about having a run defense ranked 125th out of 133 at one one of the wealthiest schools in the country that throws millions into coaching and recruiting?
Pardon me for "my complete lack of football knowledge" !!!
A little reading comprehension and you won't have to go through life arguing with yourself all the time.
Football don't need no steenkin' grammar!!!Meximan said:
Grammar isn't great but this is all pretty spot on.
If you can scheme our defense to have five or fewer in the box we are begging you to run. If you can scheme it to delete edge defenders we are daring you to sweep. If you have six dbs and zero spies, we are pleading for you to run delays and routes that engage our dbs and then run the QB. So some teams just did what our tactics demanded they do.
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