This makes my head hurt...

MooreTrucker said:

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I will never be not convinced that if Johnny had gone somewhere better than CLE and sat for a year or two behind an established QB like Mahomes did with Alex Smith, he'd still be playing now.

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That would highly depend on if Johnny took his job seriously, which he admitted he didn't. The problem wasn't the Browns, it was his lack of commitment to being a professional. He could've left after his contract to a better team but he didn't give himself that chance.

12mn95 said:

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MooreTrucker said:

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I will never be not convinced that if Johnny had gone somewhere better than CLE and sat for a year or two behind an established QB like Mahomes did with Alex Smith, he'd still be playing now.

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That would highly depend on if Johnny took his job seriously, which he admitted he didn't. The problem wasn't the Browns, it was his lack of commitment to being a professional. He could've left after his contract to a better team but he didn't give himself that chance.

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What you say is true, but IMO, he had no mentoring/leadership to help with that either. He had a coach that didn't want him and didn't know how to use his skills effectively and a veteran QB that actively pushed against him.

Scotty Appleton said:

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By and large QB's who play on stacked/dominant college programs struggle in the NFL. They don't take enough hits, literally/figuratively until they are in an environment where it's mostly an even playing field and they aren't the best person on the field. Most have been able to coast from HS through college and now grown men are in their faces within 3 seconds.

Most NFL QB's that make it play on solid/good college teams where they elevated the team, but still got their butts kicked from time to time. As weird as it may sound, if you have designs on being a good NFL QB, one of the worst things to do is go play on a college team where you are only challenged 1-2 times a year.

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I will just note that until the recent Hurts/Tua/Jones run, lowly Cal had more starting QBs in the NFL - Aaron Rodgers, Jared Goff - than not just 'Bama, but I think the entire SEC (Dak being the only one I can think of.)

Scotty Appleton said:

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By and large QB's who play on stacked/dominant college programs struggle in the NFL. They don't take enough hits, literally/figuratively until they are in an environment where it's mostly an even playing field and they aren't the best person on the field. Most have been able to coast from HS through college and now grown men are in their faces within 3 seconds.

Most NFL QB's that make it play on solid/good college teams where they elevated the team, but still got their butts kicked from time to time. As weird as it may sound, if you have designs on being a good NFL QB, one of the worst things to do is go play on a college team where you are only challenged 1-2 times a year.

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A prime example of the was Miami after they established themselves as 'the U'. When the first rise to success, guys like Jim Kelly and Bernie Kosar had great to good pro careers. Even Vinnie Testeverde managed to stick around forever. But when they were a dominant team later on, they had a litany of QBs that either got drafted high or won the Heisman and never did squat. Guys like Steve Walsh, Gino Toretta, and Ken Dorsey.

MooreTrucker said:

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I will never be not convinced that if Johnny had gone somewhere better than CLE and sat for a year or two behind an established QB like Mahomes did with Alex Smith, he'd still be playing now.

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Are you serious? JFF wasnt willing to put in the work, he just wanted the lifestyle.

MooreTrucker said:

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I will never be not convinced that if Johnny had gone somewhere better than CLE and sat for a year or two behind an established QB like Mahomes did with Alex Smith, he'd still be playing now.

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100% agree. He didn't help himself, for sure, but he was also put in a position to fail by his coaches and Cleveland in general.

ATL Aggie said:

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MooreTrucker said:

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I will never be not convinced that if Johnny had gone somewhere better than CLE and sat for a year or two behind an established QB like Mahomes did with Alex Smith, he'd still be playing now.

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Are you serious? JFF wasnt willing to put in the work, he just wanted the lifestyle.

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Yes, I'm serious. I guess I think a little more highly of him than you do.

It doesn't have anything to do with thinking highly of him or not. People in any job who don't take their job seriously, don't follow directions don't put in the necessary preparation generally fail. Doesn't that pretty well describe him and his outcome?

PaulTony said:

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Rumor is Tua is done at Miami trading for Watson
J Hurts is terrible in PHL
Mack Jones jury still out in NE but lost to Tua

Bama for a QB is fools gold like having a scratch handicap at a par 3 golf at Caldwell CC.

Arch Manning should talk to Jimbo

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Unfortunately he will probably be a sip.

S.A. Aggie said:

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PaulTony said:

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Rumor is Tua is done at Miami trading for Watson
J Hurts is terrible in PHL
Mack Jones jury still out in NE but lost to Tua

Bama for a QB is fools gold like having a scratch handicap at a par 3 golf at Caldwell CC.

Arch Manning should talk to Jimbo

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Unfortunately he will probably be a sip.

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MooreTrucker said:

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ATL Aggie said:

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MooreTrucker said:

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I will never be not convinced that if Johnny had gone somewhere better than CLE and sat for a year or two behind an established QB like Mahomes did with Alex Smith, he'd still be playing now.

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Are you serious? JFF wasnt willing to put in the work, he just wanted the lifestyle.

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Yes, I'm serious. I guess I think a little more highly of him than you do.

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I love Johnny. Not only was he incredibly fun to watch but he also was instrumental in A&M taking a huge step forward to becoming a powerhouse. As fans we owe him a lot of gratitude. He has my respect. I think he is one of the greatest college QB's of all time. The fact that he didnt last in the NFL doesn't change my opinion of him.

People are accountable for their own actions. Its time to stop blaming everyone else for Johnny's failure as an NFL QB. First people blamed Sumlin and Kliff for not teaching him how to read a defense. Then they blamed Cleveland for being a dumpster fire of an organization. The fact is that Johnny didnt spend any time in the film room (in college or the pro's). In college he got by on athleticism, instincts, and play calling. That isnt enough to cut it in the NFL. You either put the work in to learn or you dont. Johnny didnt and therefore didnt last.

It is what it is. Johnny was a great college QB.

4.05063291e-9

Chances of being an NFL starting Quarterback.

S.A. Aggie said:

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PaulTony said:

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Rumor is Tua is done at Miami trading for Watson
J Hurts is terrible in PHL
Mack Jones jury still out in NE but lost to Tua

Bama for a QB is fools gold like having a scratch handicap at a par 3 golf at Caldwell CC.

Arch Manning should talk to Jimbo

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Unfortunately he will probably be a sip.

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I know they have made top 3, but I will believe that when I see it. I don't think getting your butt beat for a couple years when Texas transitions to the SEC is a good look for the draft. And now isn't like when we came in, the SEC is used to Big XII style offenses. If it were my kid, I'd tell him to go to Georgia or Bama, win a ton of games, set yourself up with success.

Hell, if you like Texas that much, go to one of those for a year or two and if you don't win the job, odds are pretty good Texas will still be searching for a QB, so you could transfer.

I don't know who said it, but historically it makes a lot of sense:

(1) Nick Saban's players are almost always NFL ready from the git go.
(2) That is usually their ceiling

MooreTrucker said:

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12mn95 said:

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MooreTrucker said:

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I will never be not convinced that if Johnny had gone somewhere better than CLE and sat for a year or two behind an established QB like Mahomes did with Alex Smith, he'd still be playing now.

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That would highly depend on if Johnny took his job seriously, which he admitted he didn't. The problem wasn't the Browns, it was his lack of commitment to being a professional. He could've left after his contract to a better team but he didn't give himself that chance.

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What you say is true, but IMO, he had no mentoring/leadership to help with that either. He had a coach that didn't want him and didn't know how to use his skills effectively and a veteran QB that actively pushed against him.

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Josh McCown? I never heard that version that you are mentioning here. I did look it up and this is what I did find and it seems genuine from McCown. You are welcome to read it here

https://www.businessinsider.com/josh-mccown-touching-response-to-johnny-manziel-party-video-2015-11

12mn95 said:

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MooreTrucker said:

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12mn95 said:

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MooreTrucker said:

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I will never be not convinced that if Johnny had gone somewhere better than CLE and sat for a year or two behind an established QB like Mahomes did with Alex Smith, he'd still be playing now.

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That would highly depend on if Johnny took his job seriously, which he admitted he didn't. The problem wasn't the Browns, it was his lack of commitment to being a professional. He could've left after his contract to a better team but he didn't give himself that chance.

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What you say is true, but IMO, he had no mentoring/leadership to help with that either. He had a coach that didn't want him and didn't know how to use his skills effectively and a veteran QB that actively pushed against him.

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Josh McCown? I never heard that version that you are mentioning here. I did look it up and this is what I did find and it seems genuine from McCown. You are welcome to read it here

https://www.businessinsider.com/josh-mccown-touching-response-to-johnny-manziel-party-video-2015-11

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I think he's talking about Hoyer

Yes Hoyer

Troy Aikman was 1-15 in year one. Easy does it regardless whom your team is.

wangus12 said:

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Mac Jones has looked perfectly fine for a rookie and I think he'll make a pretty dang good QB

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Mac Jones strikes me as a very smart kid, hes doing very good for a rookie, he will do good in the NFL in New Englands system

Jalen Hurts accounts for somewhere around 83% of his offense's passing and rushing yardage. Maybe it's not Hurts that sucks, but rather the Eagles who suck.

Bingo. To put it another way, most college coaching staffs are not on par with NFL coaching, so with better training, teaching, nutrition, etc., players can further develop. Saban is so good that development has usually already occurred.

As for QBs, with Alabama's talent a QB doesn't have to carry the team as much.

someone needs to start a thread on Alabama's 1st round WR's.

it has not been a good week.

Ridley, Ruggs, et al

W said:

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someone needs to start a thread on Alabama's 1st round WR's.

it has not been a good week.

Ridley, Ruggs, et al

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taking a victory lap after someone died is total scum