Recently, I was surprised to learn that some of my friends were discouraging their grandsons from playing HS football. All of us had played but the concussion issue was apparently the main issue.

While we are all, or most of us, taking a step back from our commitment to football I thought we might solve the problem. Speaking only for my self, I am not impressed by 300+ pound linemen lumbering around the gridiron. I know there are some reading this in their XXXL Hawaiian shirt and cargo shorts who would have me believe that it is all muscle. It is not. Most of that stuff hanging over their belt is flab. I prefer linemen that look more like Ray Childress and Bob Lilly.

If you capped the weights for linemen at 250 lbs. and backs at 230, wouldn't you reduce the concussion issue materially? A 225 pound QB being buried by a 325 pound lineman seems to be a little ridiculous.

I remember when the NFL got its first 300 pounder. I think it was Big Daddy Lipscombe. I don't think the excess weight has helped the game. The line play has become a bore. It has eliminated the scat back. I think the game at both the college and professional level would be much improved. Obviously, you would have to grandfather in the process, but football capped at 250/230 would be much faster and more entertaining.

My son is less than 10. He played one year of flag football and told us he didn't want to play this year. However, he has recently got involved in competitive wrestling and he absolutely loves it.

I doubt it helps much. If a 205# RB ducks his head and takes a helmet from a 215#, how much difference does it make? Would the RB being 220 and the LB 240 really change things? If anything, they probably move faster with less weight. The additional speed probably makes up for the reduced mass.

No background in physics other than HS. Would accept correction from a real scientist.

I don't follow your link from size to concussions. In fact, most of the rules implemented to avoid injury seem focused on avoiding speedy collisions.

So making the game faster is going to lead to fewer concussions?

I really do enjoy watching games like Army-Navy where even the linemen have to have a high level of athleticism, but there are some problems in your idea: Tall guys can weigh more and still have an athletic physique

Let's take one of A&M's best players in the last several years (heheheh) for example: Dan Skipper. He was 6'10" tall and weighs 320 pounds but his stomach ain't hanging down to his knees. He's an athletic build for a lineman but he is SEVENTY pounds over your weight limit! Your metric would have to account for height, and even then, using something like BMI would be a terrible metric. Isaiah Spiller at 6'1" 225 is a top tier build but guess what, he is just a couple of pounds away from being obese by the BMI. Tbh he is probably 6' tall flat and would actually be in the obese category, but we know that isn't the case.

ABATTBQ87 said:

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Weight has nothing to do with concussions.

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Players are bigger today than they ever have been
Players are faster today than they ever have been

It absolutely matters

I say, put football players back into the pads that they played in back in the 80s and 90s

It's not only the concussions, but the ortho injuries. I'm surprised that orthopedic surgeons aren't sponsoring every level of football from HS on down.

I don't think that very many of these concussions are caused by 300+ pound linemen. In fact, that's probably the safest place to be in terms of concussions. Most impact is with an opponent who lines up very close to you. They are way more concerned with getting their legs tangled up and fallen on. I'd guess that most concussions occur when a DB hits a receiver or a RB meets a defender head on.

First, football is a tough sport for tough men. Injuries have always come with the territory. I fully support anyone's decision to not play for safety reasons.There's no shortage of guys who will gladly step up and take those spots.

Secondly, if you want to reduce concussions, improving helmet technology is the way to go. Rule changes have already gone too far in softening the game. Football was almost outlawed at one point due to deaths nationwide, and it was the requirement to wear helmets that saved the sport. Thank Teddy Roosevelt.

Before the comparison to rugby and de-escalating padding comes up...

This is a 2016 article on at least the comparison to rugby. Note the following:

" The assumption that rugby had a better handle on concussions than football, however, might have been flawed from the get-go. The most recent injury audit performed by England's Rugby Football Union (RFU) established that concussions in elite-level professional games were occurring at a rate of 13.4 per 1,000 player hours. On those numbers, you would expect to see a concussion slightly more often than once in every two games.

There were 182 reported concussions in the NFL's 256 regular season games in 2015 -- a higher rate, but hardly by a drastic margin. In both sports, the figures have risen sharply in line with growing awareness. The RFU's audit shows that rugby's rate of identified concussions has doubled in the past two years alone.

Until those figures stabilize, it will be easy to believe that they underrepresent the scale of the issue. Dr. Willie Stewart, consultant neuropathologist at the University of Glasgow and a member of World Rugby's independent concussion advisory panel, says any claim that rugby players experience a lower risk of brain injury than football players is essentially unproven."

https://www.espn.com/espn/story/_/id/16029747/rugby-nfl-concussion-issue-figured-out

It was a quick search so there might be more recent info. But I think part of the issue is now that it's gotten attention we are doing a better job of testing for it on the field and therefore acknowledging more incidents in both sports. And probably others like soccer, baseball, and basketball.

The question is whether a zero-risk childhood or complete bans on sports are reasonable. I'd argue they aren't but parents should be just as concerned about safety and health as they are about success. The parent must be a risk manager.

Why don't all players wear the same padded helmets in games that linemen do in practice?

Concussions won't kill football... it will die of a thousand small cuts.

Mascots are bad
Team names are bad
Fight songs are bad
National Anthem is bad
Physical play is bad
even fly-overs are bad

What have I missed?

JustisWalkert said:

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Why don't all players wear the same padded helmets in games that linemen do in practice?

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Probably would have more neck injuries from the friction. Idk, just a thought.

sleepybeagle said:

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Concussions won't kill football... it will die of a thousand small cuts.

Mascots are bad
Team names are bad
Fight songs are bad
National Anthem is bad
Physical play is bad
even fly-overs are bad

What have I missed?

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You left out that it's almost exclusively boys that play football.

You must be a "little feller" to come up with BS like this.

Possibly the worst non-Mond thread ever. Congrats OP

(to make this directly Aggie related)
Go to the 2:30 mark. Those are the hits causing concussions. Those and when a players' head hits the ground violently. They certainly can and do happen in the trenches, but not like they do in the open field. It's not the 3 yards in a cloud of dust game it used to be. It's open and fast and that creates a lot of force.

TMartin said:

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sleepybeagle said:

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Concussions won't kill football... it will die of a thousand small cuts.

Mascots are bad
Team names are bad
Fight songs are bad
National Anthem is bad
Physical play is bad
even fly-overs are bad

What have I missed?

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You left out that it's almost exclusively boys that play football.

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Everything is bad if it fits the agenda of everyine who has an axe to grind!!!

I don't want my grandson to play football!!!! I let my son make up his mind what sport if any he wanted to play, he didn't play football. Now he is saying his son is going to play football. "Varsity Blues" situation! I am discouraging it! Players are much larger, stronger and faster now than they were during my high shool day in the mis 60's. A large percentage of these young players have not physically matured and have injuries that stay with them a life time. Football has evolved into a very risky activity.

agent-maroon said:

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It's not only the concussions, but the ortho injuries. I'm surprised that orthopedic surgeons aren't sponsoring every level of football from HS on down.

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Team physicians: edit to say that every large district has a dedicated team of doctors and trainers.

https://www.katyisd.org/dept/athletics/Pages/Team-Physicians.aspx

Concussions and CTE aren't a thing anymore. Just covid and it's 99,999,999/100,000,000 survival rate for football players. With those odds, football should just be shut down forever. Too dangerous. Stop the curve. Stay safe. We're all in this together. It's the new normal. Everyone wear a helmet and a gas mask and live in your basement for the rest of your life and order grub hub.

In short, no.

The issue is one of athletic evolution and the pushing of the human envelope. Go look at just about any sport and how what is considered "elite" has changed over the last several decades. Swimming is a perfect example. If you look at some of the Olympics and world championship events from the 30's and 40's, the men's gold medalists would have trouble even qualifying against today's women. High school swimmers could beat them by double digit seconds. Even more recent Olympic champions from the 70's and 80's would be crushed by the modern HS athlete (world record at '76 Olympics in men's 100m free wouldn't even qualify for Texas State championships). Everything about the modern athlete is becoming fine tuned, and the technology and knowledge on how to push it even further permeates through sports further everyday.

Athletes at all levels today are simply leaps and bounds better because they get better nutrition, coaching, and development. They are bigger, faster, and stronger even earlier. Capping the linemen won't do anything when the linebackers are running 4.7-4.9 40's and weigh 210-220 pounds. DB's are smaller, but they're much faster than their historic counterparts. The problem is the pure athleticism today and how it is much different than it used to be. Some modern, elite HS players could arguably have played in the NFL of the 1950's. Hell, the modern QB is the size of a 1950's lineman. The simple fact is, we have refined athletics to the point that a full contact sport like football pages the physical boundaries of the human body at every position. The only way to curb injuries like concussions is better protective equipment or to slow the players down.

We've moved the younger kids in our program to flag and rookie tackle and haven't looked back. Our hs coaches pushed the hardest for it. My kids learn to play and enjoy the game the right way. Sure dont miss those parents shouting at their 7 year old kid to "just hit someone!"

The long term problems are far more likely to develop as a result of youth football. Repetitive small head hits to an 8 year old so much worse damage than an occasional big shot on a 17 year old.

Ban youth tackle football. Let it start in 7th grade. Brett Favre agrees. The Mannings didn't play it.

McDadeTXAggie said:

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ABATTBQ87 said:

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Weight has nothing to do with concussions.

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Players are bigger today than they ever have been
Players are faster today than they ever have been

It absolutely matters

I say, put football players back into the pads that they played in back in the 80s and 90s

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I played football in the 70s and early 80s in HS, and we weren't very big but I had teammates get concussions. I'd say the average weight of our varsity team in 1982 was 175 pounds

Weight doesn't matter

We had put my son in football this year despite me being hesitant. What we found is that the volunteer coaches have no idea what they're doing. The practices had kids doing stuff that could lead to injury and the games were worse. The last game I let my son play in, half of his team ended up injured... one of which was a concussion. These kids are 10. We pulled him after that. Football is exciting, but there will always be consequences to colliding bodies.

Trying to simply the problem to just weight or just speed doesn't cut it; F=ma -- so both contribute to the forces being impacted to cause the injuries. These injuries have been happening for decades, but athletes are a bit bigger now and a bit faster now... thus more force. Add on top of that we've been conditioned to be in awe of super huge hits... each generation of player seems to be more focused on achieving these types of hits rather than the fundamental one. Everything accumulates to a perfect storm of violent hits and players ending up with life long problems. No thanks.

All that to say we're just going to move our son to baseball.

Eric Forma said:

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All that to say we're just going to move our son to baseball.

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Make sure you secure him in bubble wrap as you drive him to and from practice.

And a high inside fastball from a lack of control pitcher who has no idea where that ball is heading.

There is always soccer........oops basketball...oops, track.....oops....


Never mind. How about computer games in his room....as long as his room is downstairs .

Sorry my post offended you. I hope your day gets better.

Edit: Of course all sports come with risk of injury... but football's risk to head trauma is bad. So you can take your slippery slope passive aggressive nonsense and shove it.

My son started 7th grade and football this year. We live in a middle class/upper middle class school district. I let him decide if he wanted to play and will let him continue to choose. Athletically, he's average/little below average and I think it's highly likely he will choose not to play within a couple of years (practicing but not playing sucks and kids will usually choose to do things in which they excel).

He's on B team and - through one scrimmage and one game - he's been in about 4 quarters total. I haven't observed much actual hitting yet. The lineman stand straight up when the ball is snapped and push and sorta stand in each others way. The rest arm tackle or try to piggy back tackle. There are some big boys, but most of them are soft-bodied and, as aforementioned, aren't really using their size except maybe as an obstacle. A team is slightly different (couple of kids on the teams willing to hit), but not much.

This was not the way it was when I was in 7th grade football for the most part. I'm 48 so Atari came out when I was about 12. We played outside for hours every day. I also grew up in a middle class/lower middle class school district. I'd say our team was comprised of at least 1/4 bruisers from day one of 7th grade football and very few kids were afraid to hit/be hit.

So, from where I'm sitting, not a lot to worry about from football. Too much Xbox, iPhone, PC and 200 tv channels has bred fear of actual, physical conflict in at least the kids I'm seeing. Apparently, though, kids are meaner and "tougher" with their mouths than ever. That's what I'm dealing with regularly.

why dont you require that everyone has to be 300 plus pounds - slow the game down a bit - Love to see fat WRs running routes..

The non-aerobic nature of football probably also contributes to concussions. Every play is all-out followed by 40 seconds of standing around, mixed in with a penalty or commercial every 3rd play. It's easier to blow somebody up when you're not focused on keeping your own lungs inflated. I'd like to see quarters reduced to 10 - 12 minutes and the play clock reduced to 20 seconds. Make the game much faster, more aerobic, more entertaining, and finished in 2.5 hours, max.