vander54 said:

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Mac94 said:

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Sully stays ... Mond can head out on highway 6

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Both can stay. Mond has a right to his opinion.

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Mac94 said:

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He totally has a right to his opinion ... my issue with him is that in his tweets he's pretty much called those defending Sully as racist /supporters of racism. That is the problem. He attacked the character of a large number of fellow Ags because they have a different opinion than him. That's not leadership nor open and honest discourse ... it's an immature temper tantrum to try and get his way.

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samhoustonag said:

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Please, please stop trying to confuse Mond with facts. These facts don't meet his narrative.

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samhoustonag said:

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Decay said:

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Sparkie said:

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Decay said:

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The writer posted on Twitter about it. He and Mond are cooperating to increase the visibility of the protest.

It doesn't make Mond any less correct... or any more correct. I really appreciate the athletes speaking up with no fear of being kicked out of school, kicked off the team, killed, etc. This is meaningful and important.

I think Mond is wrong. But I want him to speak out on subjects he thinks is right.

I don't think he should call Sully supporters racists, but that's his problem, not yours. I don't think it's an accurate description of Sully supporters and I won't worry about that label.

Bring positivity to the discussion and you might be surprised what you get.

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Being a representative of A&M is a privilege. Mond took to social media to call out a segment of Aggies as racist. He should lose his starting position. A&M deserves better!

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I disagree. It's so easy to coast on the idea that everything's bad-faith nowadays but I hold Aggies - all of us - to a higher standard. He is afforded the space to speak and let's not pretend he hasn't had tons of flak for years. It's okay for him to feel frustrated about this, especially if he feels like he's had to endure potshots for years from all of us, me included.

If he lashes out and called everyone racist, guess what? He probably isn't tweeting about Sully because this is the first time he felt like he's been marginalized on campus.

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Having his play criticized is no excuse for falsely accusing others of racism.

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Quote:

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State School of Methods," Dallas Morning News, 27 June 1897, page 21: "Prof. E. L. Blackshear, principal of the colored state school [Prairie View] "In what way is Gen. Ross connected with your school?" "The Prairie View state normal is a branch of the agricultural and mechanical college of Texas, of which Gen. Ross is president. He is also the treasurer of both institutions. It affords me pleasure here in the home of Gen. Ross [Waco] to testify to the nobility of his character and to his genuine interest in the education of not only white youth, but of the colored youth as well. Gov. Ross recently paid a visit to Prairie View, and in a short talk to the young men, fraught with wisdom, urged them to cultivate true manhood and to prepare themselves for the high duties of citizenship. The Negroes of Texas have never forgotten him as the founder of the colored deaf, dumb and blind institute at Austin, nor have they forgotten that he first in a message urged the establishment for Negroes of a branch university or college as provided for in the state constitution

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Nonregdrummer09 said:

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So let's talk about this document real quick, and its claims.

Massacre at Pease River (and Sul Ross's involvement):

Sul Ross lead of a group of Rangers and army soldiers as they were chasing a large group of Comanches who had been raiding a number of settlements, including killing a pregnant woman, to Pease River, however when they arrived (unknown to them) most of the Comanche soldiers had moved on and they were only met with 15 Comanche villagers, who were surprised and not able to put up much of a fight, one of the survivors (one of the sons of a white woman who had been taken many years earlier and was married to one of the comanches) wrote this account of the experience and how Sul Ross responded to it:

Quote:

---

My dear Friend In reply to your inquiry as to my father's and my own history, I will state that I cannot tell you when or where my father was born. From the best information I have, I was born about 1850 on Elk Creek just below the Wichita Mountains. My first recollection of my parents dates back to a few years before the battle on Pease River, Dec. 18, 1860, between Gov. L. S. Ross and a part of a band of Comanches that was under my father's command, my recollection is that there were about fourteen of our people killed in this fight and two escaping. My father was not there, but my mother, Cynthia Ann Parker and another of my father's wives were there. My mother was made prisoner and the other wife of my father was killed in the fight. My mother was brought back to Texas and restored to her people. Subsequently, she went to Anderson County and there, she and my sister, Prairie Flower, age ten years, both died in 1870. At the time of the battle on Pease River, my father was suffering from a wound received many years before in a battle before the fall of Parkers Fort in 1836. When the Pease River fight took place, my father with the main body of Indians was about seventy or eighty miles away with his Indian wife, my brother and myself. He knew nothing of the fight until the two survivors of the last named fight returned to the camp and informed him of the great disaster which had befallen his people. The main camp of my father, Nocona, was on the west bank of the Pease River close to a little creek of fresh water, it being a branch of the middle Pease River. I remained with my father from this time until his death which occurred two or three years later. I was with him and saw him die, and he was buried near the Antelope Hills in what I now believe is in Lipscomb County near the south bank of the Canadian River, meaning the South Canadian. Before the death of my father, he told me that my mother was a white woman, that he took her into captivity from central or east Texas when she was a child. There were born to her three children, myself being the oldest, a brother who died at an early age, named Peanuts, and my sister who was an infant in her arms when she was captured by Gov. Ross' men. What I state in regard to the death of my father is from my own personal knowledge and recollection which is now as clear in my mind as though it happened yesterday, and there is not a possibility of there being any error in regard to it. I know that Gov. Ross was honest in his belief that he had killed my father in that fight, but he was mistaken in regard to it. After the death and capture of my father's wives, he became very morose and unhappy, and I have seen him shed many tears over it. The object of this letter is not to detract a single honor won by Gov. Ross. He was a brave and honorable foe, and the sod of Texas never covered a purer or nobler hear[t]. During his life he sent me a large beautiful picture of my mother for which I feel deeply indebted to him. If he were living today, I know that he would be glad to know the truth regarding this matter which will necessarily occupy a prominent place in the history of Texas for all time to come. From your friend, Quanah Parker. Canyon News, 29 June 1975, page 2

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Jaybird-Woodpecker Incident:

Sul Ross was Governor by this time, Kellen insinuates that he was responsible for the killing of multiple people by his order, but that is inaccurate. By the time Sul Ross sent military to calm the situation, all of the fighting had already commenced. He sent a representative there to negotiate a peace, and sometime later the Republican representatives were forced out of town. It is difficult to know exactly how much Sul Ross would have had involvement in that:

Quote:

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Austin, Tex., Aug. 16 The following dispatches were received by Governor Ross tonight. Rosenberg, Tex. Governor L. S. Ross: Sheriff Garvey and Blakeny killed; several others badly wounded. Troops needed. [Signed] J. M. Weston, County Judge, Richmond, Tex. Governor L. S. Ross, Austin Altercation amongst Jaybirds and Woodpeckers. Several shot, the sheriff Included. Send militia. [Signed] N. A. Aten, Sergeant of Rangers. A dispatch has just been received from Capt. Reichardt of the Houston Light Guards saying Richmond is in the hands of a mob and several are killed. At this writing 9 p. m. there is great excitement in the city and especially in government circles. Governor Ross has just ordered by wire the Light Guards of Houston under Capt. Reichardt to go to Richmond at once. He also telegraphed orders to the Brenham Grays to be ready to leave at a moment's notice for the scene of trouble. Governor Ross has just telegraphed the military that he will leave himself by the first train for Richmond. The Jaybirds is the name for the white citizens of Fort Bend county or straight Democrats numbering about four hundred. The Woodpeckers include the Negroes and a few white Democrats who went with them in order to get office. The Woodpeckers constitute the vast majority in the county

---

There is just not enough clear information of exactly what happened in that county, we only know what the aftermath was.

The Confederacy Declaration:

I don't think anyone would deny one of the main causes of the confederacy was preserving slavery, however this is not why Sul Ross joined.

By the time the war broke out, Sul Ross had left the Rangers and was intent on being a farmer, maybe because of what happened at Pease River, we'll never really know exactly, but his brother Pete Ross raised a regiment (what became the Texas 6th Regiment) and Sul Ross joined his brother at his request.

Here is what Sul Ross said about slavery specifically:

Quote:

---

Ross' application for a Presidential pardon states in part: Austin, Texas Aug 4th, 1865 To the President of the United States ... 169 He feels should occasion requires in the future History of the United States, that he can serve then as his country with the same devotion and energy, and does most conscientiously say that he desires the prosperity of the Government and trust that the wounds so unhappily inflicted during the late struggle may be speedily healed and all animosities forgotten. He would further say that he regards the slavery question as finally settled, and would view any attempt to reestablish slavery in the South as injudicious & impolitic. He believes that the People of the South should regard the question as settled for ever, and that it devolves upon the Southern States in their respective conventions to so provide in their organic laws. Respectfully submitted, L. S. Ross. Confederate Applications for Presidential Pardons, 1865-1867, National Archives and Records Service, in Ancestry Library Edition database

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Quote:

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Confederate Reunion ... Addresses by Gov. Ross," Galveston Daily News, 26 October 1892, page 6. "When the million and a half of bronzed veterans of the two armies had melted away like the dew of the morning before the rising sun, I believe if the rank and file of the federal soldiers instead of the politicians had been left to direct the destiny of their southern foes, I believe we would have escaped that Iliad of woes unnumbered and ineffable which were scattered with such lavish hand throughout our borders. Those gallant soldiers, like the noble Stanley against whom we had so long contended, were willing to dignify their great triumph with magnanimity and mercy and were ready to stretch their compassion over us like the wings of a mighty angel while making lasting friends of the old Confederates into whose brave faces they had for four years been looking across locked sabers and bayonets. In behalf of thousands of old Confederates I want to record the fact today, that while slavery was undoubtedly an element which served to keep the public mind of the country like an angry sea that was continually casting up mire and dirt, it did not represent the principles for which the great majority of Confederates contended. As an evidence of this fact I simply illustrate a general truth by saying that not 100 of the 1200 men composing the regiment in which I enlisted at the commencement of the struggle ever owned or expected to own a slave. Very many of them had not left their former northern homes long enough to entitle them to vote here and yet when their adopted state took the fatal step, though subjected to the severest ordeal through which men wore ever called upon to pass, they determined to share her fate and they adhered to her cause with consistent and unshaken fidelity until it perished by war

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And finally the big money quote he uses about someone calling Sul Ross the "Negro Killer."

Here is the events that transpired:

Quote:

---

Ross' brigade returned to Benton on the 28th of February, and was in the act of going into camps at Ponds, four miles down the plank road towards Yazoo City, when a squadron of Negro cavalry from the city came in sight. General Ross ordered detachments of the Sixth and Ninth Texas to charge them. The Negroes after the first fire broke in disorder and ran for dear life. The Negro troops, a short time previous to this, had caught and murdered two of the Sixth Texas, and as these fellows were generally mounted on mules very few of them got back inside the breastworks, these few being mostly the white officers, who were better mounted than the Negroes. Among the killed along the road was found a Negro that belonged to Charley Butts, of Company B, he having run away to join the First Mississippi Colored Cavalry. On the evening of March 4 Brigadier-General Richardson, with his brigade of West Tennessee Cavalry, joined General Ross for the purpose of assisting in driving the enemy from Yazoo City, which is situated on the east bank of Yazoo River. The city with its surroundings was occupied by a force of about 2000 white and Negro troops, commanded by Colonel James H. Coats, supported by three gunboats. About eight o'clock on the morning of March 5, 1864, the city was attacked by Ross' and Richardson's brigades, Brigadier-General L. S. Ross in command. Our fighting strength was about 1300 men, with two or three batteries; but as we dismounted to fight, taking out the horseholders, every fourth man, this would reduce our fighting strength to about 1000 men. The enemy had the advantage of several redoubts and riflepits, the main central redoubt being situated on the plank road leading from Benton to Yazoo City. We fought them nearly all day, and at times the fighting was terrific. With the Third Texas in advance we drove in their pickets and took possession of all the redoubts but the larger central one. This one was in command of Major George C. McKee, of the Eleventh Illinois Regiment with nine companies: about four companies of the Eighth Louisiana Negro regiment; Major Cook, with part of his First Mississippi Negro cavalry, the same that had murdered the two Sixth Texas men; and one piece of artillery. The Third and Ninth Texas and Fourteenth Tennessee cavalry found themselves confronting this redoubt. Two of our batteries were placed so as to obtain an enfilading fire at easy range, and threw many shells into the redoubt, but failed to drive the enemy out. In the meantime General Richardson, with the rest of his brigade, the Sixth Texas and the Legion, drove the remainder of the enemy's forces entirely through the city to the protection of their gunboats, and gained possession of the entire place except one or two brick warehouses near the bank of the river, behind which their troops had huddled near the gunboats. The Sixth Texas and Legion took position on the plank road in rear of the large redoubt, and thus at four o'clock in the afternoon we had it entirely surrounded, we being in front some 150 yards distant. At this juncture General Ross sent Major McKee a flag of truce and demanded an unconditional surrender. The firing ceased and the matter was parleyed over for some time. The first message was verbal, and Major McKee declined to receive it unless it was in writing. It was then sent in writing, and from the movements we could see, we thought they were preparing to surrender. But they refused, 68 owing perhaps to the fact that General Ross declined to recognize the Negro troops as soldiers; and how they would have fared at the hands of an incensed brigade of Texas troops after they had murdered two of our men in cold blood was not pleasant to contemplate. As for the Negro troops, well, for some time the fighting was under the black flag no quarter being asked or given. Retaliation is one of the horrors of war, when the innocent are often sacrificed for the inhuman crimes of the mean and bloodthirsty. The parley in reference to surrendering being at an end, little more firing was indulged in, as both parties seemed to have grown tired of shooting at each other. The troops were under the impression that we were to assault the redoubt, but instead of doing so we quietly retired just before nightfall, and returned to our camp on the Benton road. This was explained by General Ross in his report in this way: "To have taken the place by assault would have cost us the loss of many men, more, we concluded, than the good that would result from the capture of the enemy would justify." Barron, S. B., The Lone Star Defenders; a Chronicle of the Third Texas Cavalry, Ross Brigade, New York: The Neale Publishing Company, 1908, pages 181-183

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Here is the letter Sul Ross wrote to the Union commander, frustrated with the capture and murder of two of his men:

Quote:

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Hdqrs. Texan Brigade, Jackson's Cavalry Division, March 4, 1864. Colonel Coates, Comdg. U. S. Forces, Yazoo City': Sir: Some few weeks ago 2 men belonging to the Sixth Regiment Texas Cavalry were captured by one Colonel Wood, of the U. S. Army, near Mechanicsburg, Miss., and executed, without trial and in cold blood. From threats made by officers and men of your command during their recent raids through this country, I am led to infer that yourself and command indorse the cold-blooded and inhuman proceedings of Colonel Wood. My object in addressing you now is to know whether or not such is the case. What kind of treatment shall members of this brigade expect, should the fortunes of war make them prisoners, in your hands? Will they receive the treatment due prisoners of war, or be murdered as were the 2 unfortunate men above referred to? Regard for the feelings of humanity and a strong desire to see the struggle in which we are engaged conducted as becometh a civilized people are the motives which have prompted the above inquiries. Up to the time of the death of the 2 men who were murdered by Colonel Wood, prisoners captured by this command were invariably treated kindly and with the considerations due them as prisoners of war; indeed, it is the boast of the Texans, that while they have always damaged the enemies of their country to the utmost of their ability on the battlefield and in open, fair fight, they had never yet injured nor in any way maltreated prisoners. If, however, the sad fate that befell the 2 men captured at Mechanicsburg await all who may hereafter be taken, we are prepared to accept the terms, and will know what course henceforth to pursue. I trust your answer may be satisfactory to my command, and that there may be no necessity for any change in the treatment heretofore given to prisoners. I am, colonel, respectfully, &c., L. S. Ross, Brigadier- General C. S. Army. The War of the Rebellion: A Compilation of the Official Records of the Union and Confederate Armies. Series 1, volume 32, part 1, pages 326-327

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[url=https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EarCMrIXsAEDt52?format=jpg&name=large][/url]

Sul Ross made a retaliatory attack against those men, not because they were black, but because they had killed two prisoners from his regiment. It may still be brutal, but that's war. They were all soldiers, and it was a battlefield.

Racism, Violence, Slavery, and Segregation:

It is hard to know exactly what Sullivan Ross's views were on race, but we do know the following:

1. Sullivan Ross did not own any slaves, his Father did, and his grandmother. One of the slaves remained with Sul Ross as a freed man until he bought land of his own. He passed in 1883 and is buried in Waco.

2. Sullivan Ross voted against poll taxes in the constitutional convention and supported full suffrage for black voters.

Quote:

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Ross apparently was one of the people in the constitutional convention who supported unlimited suffrage (that is, opposing having already the payment of already existing poll taxes linking to the right to vote, and giving African Americans the same voting rights as whites). A series of votes on the poll tax question took place; they are complicated, and I encourage people to study the record carefully. It appears that Ross voted against the poll tax (Journal of the Constitutional Convention of the State of Texas: Begun and Held at the City of Austin, September 6th, 1875, Galveston, 1875, pages 307-310).

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3. Sul Ross was a Texas Ranger and a confederate soldier, and he encountered violence, I don't know what to say about that particular point that is just part of his life till he was 26.

4. Segregation was part of the Texas Constitution and nothing Sul could do to change that either as Governor or the President of the University, we do know the following under his tenure of both though (I can provide additional quotes and sources if requested):


Ross often fought as Governor for more funds for Prairie View and for rural schools for black Texans than the legislator was wanting to do, often putting them at odds with each other fairly often.

While President of Texas A&M he allowed women to study there every year as "special cadets" some of them even wore Cadet uniforms.

The first Aggie to score a touchdown for a football team (that was established under Ross' tenure) was scored by Mr.N Valdez from Hidalgo Mexico.

Point being, this history is not as clear cut as Mind wants to make it. It won't matter though, he has the platform, I'm just a guy posting citations on TexAgs.

I leave this quote as my closing statement:

Quote:

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The known record is not adequate to make confident conclusions about Ross' feelings about and actions concerning race and ethnicity. Even less is known about his views on gender or class. Anyone who examines these references hoping to find either a demon or an angel will be disappointed. Life is complicated, and Sul Ross led a very full life

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Thanks for reading!


Edit: I am more than willing to read anything anyone has on Sul Ross that they feel contradicts what I've written here, I'm not above having my mind changed.

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JonSnow said:

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Nonregdrummer09 said:

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So let's talk about this document real quick, and its claims.

Massacre at Pease River (and Sul Ross's involvement):

Sul Ross lead of a group of Rangers and army soldiers as they were chasing a large group of Comanches who had been raiding a number of settlements, including killing a pregnant woman, to Pease River, however when they arrived (unknown to them) most of the Comanche soldiers had moved on and they were only met with 15 Comanche villagers, who were surprised and not able to put up much of a fight, one of the survivors (one of the sons of a white woman who had been taken many years earlier and was married to one of the comanches) wrote this account of the experience and how Sul Ross responded to it:

Quote:

---

My dear Friend In reply to your inquiry as to my father's and my own history, I will state that I cannot tell you when or where my father was born. From the best information I have, I was born about 1850 on Elk Creek just below the Wichita Mountains. My first recollection of my parents dates back to a few years before the battle on Pease River, Dec. 18, 1860, between Gov. L. S. Ross and a part of a band of Comanches that was under my father's command, my recollection is that there were about fourteen of our people killed in this fight and two escaping. My father was not there, but my mother, Cynthia Ann Parker and another of my father's wives were there. My mother was made prisoner and the other wife of my father was killed in the fight. My mother was brought back to Texas and restored to her people. Subsequently, she went to Anderson County and there, she and my sister, Prairie Flower, age ten years, both died in 1870. At the time of the battle on Pease River, my father was suffering from a wound received many years before in a battle before the fall of Parkers Fort in 1836. When the Pease River fight took place, my father with the main body of Indians was about seventy or eighty miles away with his Indian wife, my brother and myself. He knew nothing of the fight until the two survivors of the last named fight returned to the camp and informed him of the great disaster which had befallen his people. The main camp of my father, Nocona, was on the west bank of the Pease River close to a little creek of fresh water, it being a branch of the middle Pease River. I remained with my father from this time until his death which occurred two or three years later. I was with him and saw him die, and he was buried near the Antelope Hills in what I now believe is in Lipscomb County near the south bank of the Canadian River, meaning the South Canadian. Before the death of my father, he told me that my mother was a white woman, that he took her into captivity from central or east Texas when she was a child. There were born to her three children, myself being the oldest, a brother who died at an early age, named Peanuts, and my sister who was an infant in her arms when she was captured by Gov. Ross' men. What I state in regard to the death of my father is from my own personal knowledge and recollection which is now as clear in my mind as though it happened yesterday, and there is not a possibility of there being any error in regard to it. I know that Gov. Ross was honest in his belief that he had killed my father in that fight, but he was mistaken in regard to it. After the death and capture of my father's wives, he became very morose and unhappy, and I have seen him shed many tears over it. The object of this letter is not to detract a single honor won by Gov. Ross. He was a brave and honorable foe, and the sod of Texas never covered a purer or nobler hear[t]. During his life he sent me a large beautiful picture of my mother for which I feel deeply indebted to him. If he were living today, I know that he would be glad to know the truth regarding this matter which will necessarily occupy a prominent place in the history of Texas for all time to come. From your friend, Quanah Parker. Canyon News, 29 June 1975, page 2

---

Jaybird-Woodpecker Incident:

Sul Ross was Governor by this time, Kellen insinuates that he was responsible for the killing of multiple people by his order, but that is inaccurate. By the time Sul Ross sent military to calm the situation, all of the fighting had already commenced. He sent a representative there to negotiate a peace, and sometime later the Republican representatives were forced out of town. It is difficult to know exactly how much Sul Ross would have had involvement in that:

Quote:

---

Austin, Tex., Aug. 16 The following dispatches were received by Governor Ross tonight. Rosenberg, Tex. Governor L. S. Ross: Sheriff Garvey and Blakeny killed; several others badly wounded. Troops needed. [Signed] J. M. Weston, County Judge, Richmond, Tex. Governor L. S. Ross, Austin Altercation amongst Jaybirds and Woodpeckers. Several shot, the sheriff Included. Send militia. [Signed] N. A. Aten, Sergeant of Rangers. A dispatch has just been received from Capt. Reichardt of the Houston Light Guards saying Richmond is in the hands of a mob and several are killed. At this writing 9 p. m. there is great excitement in the city and especially in government circles. Governor Ross has just ordered by wire the Light Guards of Houston under Capt. Reichardt to go to Richmond at once. He also telegraphed orders to the Brenham Grays to be ready to leave at a moment's notice for the scene of trouble. Governor Ross has just telegraphed the military that he will leave himself by the first train for Richmond. The Jaybirds is the name for the white citizens of Fort Bend county or straight Democrats numbering about four hundred. The Woodpeckers include the Negroes and a few white Democrats who went with them in order to get office. The Woodpeckers constitute the vast majority in the county

---

There is just not enough clear information of exactly what happened in that county, we only know what the aftermath was.

The Confederacy Declaration:

I don't think anyone would deny one of the main causes of the confederacy was preserving slavery, however this is not why Sul Ross joined.

By the time the war broke out, Sul Ross had left the Rangers and was intent on being a farmer, maybe because of what happened at Pease River, we'll never really know exactly, but his brother Pete Ross raised a regiment (what became the Texas 6th Regiment) and Sul Ross joined his brother at his request.

Here is what Sul Ross said about slavery specifically:

Quote:

---

Ross' application for a Presidential pardon states in part: Austin, Texas Aug 4th, 1865 To the President of the United States ... 169 He feels should occasion requires in the future History of the United States, that he can serve then as his country with the same devotion and energy, and does most conscientiously say that he desires the prosperity of the Government and trust that the wounds so unhappily inflicted during the late struggle may be speedily healed and all animosities forgotten. He would further say that he regards the slavery question as finally settled, and would view any attempt to reestablish slavery in the South as injudicious & impolitic. He believes that the People of the South should regard the question as settled for ever, and that it devolves upon the Southern States in their respective conventions to so provide in their organic laws. Respectfully submitted, L. S. Ross. Confederate Applications for Presidential Pardons, 1865-1867, National Archives and Records Service, in Ancestry Library Edition database

---

Quote:

---

Confederate Reunion ... Addresses by Gov. Ross," Galveston Daily News, 26 October 1892, page 6. "When the million and a half of bronzed veterans of the two armies had melted away like the dew of the morning before the rising sun, I believe if the rank and file of the federal soldiers instead of the politicians had been left to direct the destiny of their southern foes, I believe we would have escaped that Iliad of woes unnumbered and ineffable which were scattered with such lavish hand throughout our borders. Those gallant soldiers, like the noble Stanley against whom we had so long contended, were willing to dignify their great triumph with magnanimity and mercy and were ready to stretch their compassion over us like the wings of a mighty angel while making lasting friends of the old Confederates into whose brave faces they had for four years been looking across locked sabers and bayonets. In behalf of thousands of old Confederates I want to record the fact today, that while slavery was undoubtedly an element which served to keep the public mind of the country like an angry sea that was continually casting up mire and dirt, it did not represent the principles for which the great majority of Confederates contended. As an evidence of this fact I simply illustrate a general truth by saying that not 100 of the 1200 men composing the regiment in which I enlisted at the commencement of the struggle ever owned or expected to own a slave. Very many of them had not left their former northern homes long enough to entitle them to vote here and yet when their adopted state took the fatal step, though subjected to the severest ordeal through which men wore ever called upon to pass, they determined to share her fate and they adhered to her cause with consistent and unshaken fidelity until it perished by war

---

And finally the big money quote he uses about someone calling Sul Ross the "Negro Killer."

Here is the events that transpired:

Quote:

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Ross' brigade returned to Benton on the 28th of February, and was in the act of going into camps at Ponds, four miles down the plank road towards Yazoo City, when a squadron of Negro cavalry from the city came in sight. General Ross ordered detachments of the Sixth and Ninth Texas to charge them. The Negroes after the first fire broke in disorder and ran for dear life. The Negro troops, a short time previous to this, had caught and murdered two of the Sixth Texas, and as these fellows were generally mounted on mules very few of them got back inside the breastworks, these few being mostly the white officers, who were better mounted than the Negroes. Among the killed along the road was found a Negro that belonged to Charley Butts, of Company B, he having run away to join the First Mississippi Colored Cavalry. On the evening of March 4 Brigadier-General Richardson, with his brigade of West Tennessee Cavalry, joined General Ross for the purpose of assisting in driving the enemy from Yazoo City, which is situated on the east bank of Yazoo River. The city with its surroundings was occupied by a force of about 2000 white and Negro troops, commanded by Colonel James H. Coats, supported by three gunboats. About eight o'clock on the morning of March 5, 1864, the city was attacked by Ross' and Richardson's brigades, Brigadier-General L. S. Ross in command. Our fighting strength was about 1300 men, with two or three batteries; but as we dismounted to fight, taking out the horseholders, every fourth man, this would reduce our fighting strength to about 1000 men. The enemy had the advantage of several redoubts and riflepits, the main central redoubt being situated on the plank road leading from Benton to Yazoo City. We fought them nearly all day, and at times the fighting was terrific. With the Third Texas in advance we drove in their pickets and took possession of all the redoubts but the larger central one. This one was in command of Major George C. McKee, of the Eleventh Illinois Regiment with nine companies: about four companies of the Eighth Louisiana Negro regiment; Major Cook, with part of his First Mississippi Negro cavalry, the same that had murdered the two Sixth Texas men; and one piece of artillery. The Third and Ninth Texas and Fourteenth Tennessee cavalry found themselves confronting this redoubt. Two of our batteries were placed so as to obtain an enfilading fire at easy range, and threw many shells into the redoubt, but failed to drive the enemy out. In the meantime General Richardson, with the rest of his brigade, the Sixth Texas and the Legion, drove the remainder of the enemy's forces entirely through the city to the protection of their gunboats, and gained possession of the entire place except one or two brick warehouses near the bank of the river, behind which their troops had huddled near the gunboats. The Sixth Texas and Legion took position on the plank road in rear of the large redoubt, and thus at four o'clock in the afternoon we had it entirely surrounded, we being in front some 150 yards distant. At this juncture General Ross sent Major McKee a flag of truce and demanded an unconditional surrender. The firing ceased and the matter was parleyed over for some time. The first message was verbal, and Major McKee declined to receive it unless it was in writing. It was then sent in writing, and from the movements we could see, we thought they were preparing to surrender. But they refused, 68 owing perhaps to the fact that General Ross declined to recognize the Negro troops as soldiers; and how they would have fared at the hands of an incensed brigade of Texas troops after they had murdered two of our men in cold blood was not pleasant to contemplate. As for the Negro troops, well, for some time the fighting was under the black flag no quarter being asked or given. Retaliation is one of the horrors of war, when the innocent are often sacrificed for the inhuman crimes of the mean and bloodthirsty. The parley in reference to surrendering being at an end, little more firing was indulged in, as both parties seemed to have grown tired of shooting at each other. The troops were under the impression that we were to assault the redoubt, but instead of doing so we quietly retired just before nightfall, and returned to our camp on the Benton road. This was explained by General Ross in his report in this way: "To have taken the place by assault would have cost us the loss of many men, more, we concluded, than the good that would result from the capture of the enemy would justify." Barron, S. B., The Lone Star Defenders; a Chronicle of the Third Texas Cavalry, Ross Brigade, New York: The Neale Publishing Company, 1908, pages 181-183

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Here is the letter Sul Ross wrote to the Union commander, frustrated with the capture and murder of two of his men:

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Hdqrs. Texan Brigade, Jackson's Cavalry Division, March 4, 1864. Colonel Coates, Comdg. U. S. Forces, Yazoo City': Sir: Some few weeks ago 2 men belonging to the Sixth Regiment Texas Cavalry were captured by one Colonel Wood, of the U. S. Army, near Mechanicsburg, Miss., and executed, without trial and in cold blood. From threats made by officers and men of your command during their recent raids through this country, I am led to infer that yourself and command indorse the cold-blooded and inhuman proceedings of Colonel Wood. My object in addressing you now is to know whether or not such is the case. What kind of treatment shall members of this brigade expect, should the fortunes of war make them prisoners, in your hands? Will they receive the treatment due prisoners of war, or be murdered as were the 2 unfortunate men above referred to? Regard for the feelings of humanity and a strong desire to see the struggle in which we are engaged conducted as becometh a civilized people are the motives which have prompted the above inquiries. Up to the time of the death of the 2 men who were murdered by Colonel Wood, prisoners captured by this command were invariably treated kindly and with the considerations due them as prisoners of war; indeed, it is the boast of the Texans, that while they have always damaged the enemies of their country to the utmost of their ability on the battlefield and in open, fair fight, they had never yet injured nor in any way maltreated prisoners. If, however, the sad fate that befell the 2 men captured at Mechanicsburg await all who may hereafter be taken, we are prepared to accept the terms, and will know what course henceforth to pursue. I trust your answer may be satisfactory to my command, and that there may be no necessity for any change in the treatment heretofore given to prisoners. I am, colonel, respectfully, &c., L. S. Ross, Brigadier- General C. S. Army. The War of the Rebellion: A Compilation of the Official Records of the Union and Confederate Armies. Series 1, volume 32, part 1, pages 326-327

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[url=https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EarCMrIXsAEDt52?format=jpg&name=large][/url]

Sul Ross made a retaliatory attack against those men, not because they were black, but because they had killed two prisoners from his regiment. It may still be brutal, but that's war. They were all soldiers, and it was a battlefield.

Racism, Violence, Slavery, and Segregation:

It is hard to know exactly what Sullivan Ross's views were on race, but we do know the following:

1. Sullivan Ross did not own any slaves, his Father did, and his grandmother. One of the slaves remained with Sul Ross as a freed man until he bought land of his own. He passed in 1883 and is buried in Waco.

2. Sullivan Ross voted against poll taxes in the constitutional convention and supported full suffrage for black voters.

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Ross apparently was one of the people in the constitutional convention who supported unlimited suffrage (that is, opposing having already the payment of already existing poll taxes linking to the right to vote, and giving African Americans the same voting rights as whites). A series of votes on the poll tax question took place; they are complicated, and I encourage people to study the record carefully. It appears that Ross voted against the poll tax (Journal of the Constitutional Convention of the State of Texas: Begun and Held at the City of Austin, September 6th, 1875, Galveston, 1875, pages 307-310).

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3. Sul Ross was a Texas Ranger and a confederate soldier, and he encountered violence, I don't know what to say about that particular point that is just part of his life till he was 26.

4. Segregation was part of the Texas Constitution and nothing Sul could do to change that either as Governor or the President of the University, we do know the following under his tenure of both though (I can provide additional quotes and sources if requested):


Ross often fought as Governor for more funds for Prairie View and for rural schools for black Texans than the legislator was wanting to do, often putting them at odds with each other fairly often.

While President of Texas A&M he allowed women to study there every year as "special cadets" some of them even wore Cadet uniforms.

The first Aggie to score a touchdown for a football team (that was established under Ross' tenure) was scored by Mr.N Valdez from Hidalgo Mexico.

Point being, this history is not as clear cut as Mind wants to make it. It won't matter though, he has the platform, I'm just a guy posting citations on TexAgs.

I leave this quote as my closing statement:

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The known record is not adequate to make confident conclusions about Ross' feelings about and actions concerning race and ethnicity. Even less is known about his views on gender or class. Anyone who examines these references hoping to find either a demon or an angel will be disappointed. Life is complicated, and Sul Ross led a very full life

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Thanks for reading!


Edit: I am more than willing to read anything anyone has on Sul Ross that they feel contradicts what I've written here, I'm not above having my mind changed.

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I just finished Empire of the Summer Moon. The auther believes and gives evidence that Quanah Parker is intentionally not telling the truth about this incident and his father to "save face" for his father being defeated so easily at this battle. I have no idea how this affects anything just FYI.

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Decay said:

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samhoustonag said:

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Decay said:

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Sparkie said:

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Decay said:

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The writer posted on Twitter about it. He and Mond are cooperating to increase the visibility of the protest.

It doesn't make Mond any less correct... or any more correct. I really appreciate the athletes speaking up with no fear of being kicked out of school, kicked off the team, killed, etc. This is meaningful and important.

I think Mond is wrong. But I want him to speak out on subjects he thinks is right.

I don't think he should call Sully supporters racists, but that's his problem, not yours. I don't think it's an accurate description of Sully supporters and I won't worry about that label.

Bring positivity to the discussion and you might be surprised what you get.

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Being a representative of A&M is a privilege. Mond took to social media to call out a segment of Aggies as racist. He should lose his starting position. A&M deserves better!

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I disagree. It's so easy to coast on the idea that everything's bad-faith nowadays but I hold Aggies - all of us - to a higher standard. He is afforded the space to speak and let's not pretend he hasn't had tons of flak for years. It's okay for him to feel frustrated about this, especially if he feels like he's had to endure potshots for years from all of us, me included.

If he lashes out and called everyone racist, guess what? He probably isn't tweeting about Sully because this is the first time he felt like he's been marginalized on campus.

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Having his play criticized is no excuse for falsely accusing others of racism.

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What if legitimately racist things have been said to or about him? Or, let's take it a step further... what if he perceives that's what was said? Remember he's been playing since UCLA/Sumlin. Maybe he feels like firing Sumlin was racist and that's always bothered him?

Again, I don't think it's impossible to be more than one thing here.

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Nonregdrummer09 said:

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Well here is the process they want to go about dealing with this, feels like it is kind of shielding Young and Sharp from being the ones responsible for

removing Sully (or keeping it depending on which side you're on I guess).

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aggiebrad94 said:

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Nonregdrummer09 said:

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Well here is the process they want to go about dealing with this, feels like it is kind of shielding Young and Sharp from being the ones responsible for

removing Sully (or keeping it depending on which side you're on I guess).

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Apparently vandalism is now accepted because he still won't address that.

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PikesPeakAg said:

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I don't know Kellen personally and I don't know if he actually wrote what is posted. (Strange that he would call his coach by their full name instead of Coach Fisher) but regardless, he is entitled to his opinion. His opinion matters no more or less than any other Aggie. I believe his error is in demanding action. He would have been better off, in my opinion, stating why he believes the change is needed after a thorough review of the facts. He is one football QB in the long history of the university. Many will come after him. Playing such a position does not afford your voice more weight than anyone else's off the field.The original post on this thread does a great job of presenting information regarding Sully, however, at this point I personally believe almost zero on the internet. So many times my own children reference items on the internet as if it is fact when it was fiction.

At this point I believe the administration of the University should have an open forum for dialogue. They should present actual facts with regard to the good and the bad, not opinionated pieces for either side. They should solicit opinions and then obtain a majority vote from the former students and current students on a solution. The results should then posted transparently. Clearly not everyone can or will be happy with result. It would just help if everyone could see unbiased information on both sides. (Of course this only works if people actually understand that we are all Ags, brother and sisters, looking at an issue from different sides. Also that we are willing to consider another's opinion's and accept what a majority of the Aggie family had decided.)

I don't have an opinion either way on this. If we collectively feel he needs to removed or moved so be it. If not, ok as long we haven't created a situation where a false reality now exists and new students believe an inanimate object projects some racism that supposedly exists on campus. When I attended Texas A&M 30 + years ago I did so as a minority student. Not once did I see or experience discrimination. Quite the opposite, the place was open and friendly. Our beef back then was that the students weren't saying Howdy enough. I never payed much attention to Sully. I just knew that he was once president of A&M and that's where we met for silver taps. So much effort is going into dividing us, creating problems where maybe they didn't exist and that extends well beyond the boundaries of Texas A&M. Texas A&M is a special place. It is not based off a building or an or any item present on campus. It is the people. Hopefully we can remember this.

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