If you guys knew what was going on at our campus in Qatar, you would be disgusted.

strbrst777 said:

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The Top 10 percent rule has run its course and should be adjusted to a lesser percentage around Top 5. Why? Because not all school are equal. A Top 10 stodent in one school might be far from a Top 10 were he or she in another school. Surely A&M has stats to support this fact. And the population growth is another factor that inflates Top 10 numbers.

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Almost 2/3 of the student body wasn't top 10% in 2017. If we are just letting in so many 10% students that we can't handle it why is the majority not top 10%?

Macarthur said:

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Muy said:

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touchdown96 said:

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Wait...what? What evidence exists that A&M has become a diploma mill?

Admissions standards are up but demand is still so high that A&M gets more top flight students applying than previous years.

Yes the school has grown by over 30,000 students since the mid to late 90s but if the university is admitting qualified students of higher academic caliber, what's the problem?

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Speaking as a parent of a junior at A&M, calling it a "diploma mill" is an insult to the kids busting their asses to get in and get a good degree. Eff any old Ags on that high horse.

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Agree. Get really tired of this mentality. Having a kid in college and two more coming up, I can tell you without question, my kids are working much harder than I had to work in school.

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YOUR kids might be working harder than YOU did but the stories I hear from other students and recent grads doesn't tell a similar story compared to me and my contemporaries. Not saying that makes it a diploma mill but don't assume YOUR experience is the only relevant thing out there. I think this is at least a fair concern.

O'Doyle Rules said:

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strbrst777 said:

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The Top 10 percent rule has run its course and should be adjusted to a lesser percentage around Top 5. Why? Because not all school are equal. A Top 10 stodent in one school might be far from a Top 10 were he or she in another school. Surely A&M has stats to support this fact. And the population growth is another factor that inflates Top 10 numbers.

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Especially due to grade inflation at the HS level....a 93 is now a 101 GPA overall. If you can fog a mirror you can graduate HS with a 95+.

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Grade inflation has nothing to do with top 10%.

Quote:

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Kudos to UT that they recognized that a long tome ago and started major satellite schools like UTA, UTD, UTSA, and UTEP. Canyon, Commerce, Stephenville, and Kingsville are not attractive places for faculty and staff.

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It wasn't that they recognized much of anything here; it just sort of worked out that way. And they didn't start these schools. UTA used to be Arlington State College. It was actually a part of the A&M system until 1965. Now it is probably the best university in north Texas and has been for a number of years (yes, you read that right -- better than SMU and TCU). Until the '90s, UTD was an upper level only school that took in students mainly from Dallas County community colleges. They grew first by their grad programs and then their tech undergrad programs. Now, along with UTA, they're busting ass. I'm sure the resources of the UT system helped, but it wasn't anything the UT system recognized as prior to the '90s no one outside of Richardson knew UTD existed and until recently, UTA has almost always been thought of as a DFW commuter school. Hell, many DFW area students have preferred to go to North Texas even though UTA is the far superior school (as is UTD). Maybe it has changed recently, but almost anyone can get into UTA even though it is a good school. It wasn't foresight -- UT "lucked" out.

The A&M system campuses you mentioned had their own culture and weren't going to change much academically. There's also UT Tyler, UT Permian Basin, and UT Pan American. Have you ever even HEARD of those schools? If not, don't feel bad because few others have either. They suffer from the same issues the A&M campuses you mentioned suffer from.

Macarthur said:

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strbrst777 said:

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The Top 10 percent rule has run its course and should be adjusted to a lesser percentage around Top 5. Why? Because not all school are equal. A Top 10 stodent in one school might be far from a Top 10 were he or she in another school. Surely A&M has stats to support this fact. And the population growth is another factor that inflates Top 10 numbers.

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This is very true and needs to happen quickly. No doubt there needs to be something in place for rural students that are qualified, but I can tell you my kids school is a large, affluent school and we have probably 200 kids in a graduating class that would be top 10 in your average 2a or 3a high school.

I just don't think many folks realize how much the population of the state has grown, esp with young people.

Hell, didn't Frisco just announced something like their 11th HS opening? Their only HS was a 3a school 15 years ago, weren't they?

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In 2017 almost 2/3 of the student body was not in the top 10%. If these kids in "large, affluent schools" have so much trouble getting in when a majority of the spots are still available then maybe they didn't deserve to be there. Just because you came from money doesn't make you smarter, it just makes you a snobby elitist.

Also acting like small rural schools are just filling up all the spots is ridiculous. Only 15% of the state's population is rural. Assuming the amount of high school students is evenly distributed based on the overall population, that's only 1.5%, leaving a whole 8.5% for the "affluent" kids.

Drum5343 said:

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What the **** is this offseason BS doing in the middle of my football season?

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The sip OP's season went to **** and they have to trot out academic smack

There are way too many students now.
You olds can't even imagine how long the line at the Zachry Starbucks is now! I'm sure old army just walked right up to the counter and ordered. Now the line is so long that sometimes I just have to go to the Starbucks vending machine! When will this madness end Mr. Sharp???

91AggieLawyer said:

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Macarthur said:

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Muy said:

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touchdown96 said:

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Wait...what? What evidence exists that A&M has become a diploma mill?

Admissions standards are up but demand is still so high that A&M gets more top flight students applying than previous years.

Yes the school has grown by over 30,000 students since the mid to late 90s but if the university is admitting qualified students of higher academic caliber, what's the problem?

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Speaking as a parent of a junior at A&M, calling it a "diploma mill" is an insult to the kids busting their asses to get in and get a good degree. Eff any old Ags on that high horse.

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Agree. Get really tired of this mentality. Having a kid in college and two more coming up, I can tell you without question, my kids are working much harder than I had to work in school.

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YOUR kids might be working harder than YOU did but the stories I hear from other students and recent grads doesn't tell a similar story compared to me and my contemporaries. Not saying that makes it a diploma mill but don't assume YOUR experience is the only relevant thing out there. I think this is at least a fair concern.

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Fair point. No doubt that there are some kids not working as hard, but I think the same could be said when we went to school.

Aggie_Swag18 said:

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Macarthur said:

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strbrst777 said:

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The Top 10 percent rule has run its course and should be adjusted to a lesser percentage around Top 5. Why? Because not all school are equal. A Top 10 stodent in one school might be far from a Top 10 were he or she in another school. Surely A&M has stats to support this fact. And the population growth is another factor that inflates Top 10 numbers.

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This is very true and needs to happen quickly. No doubt there needs to be something in place for rural students that are qualified, but I can tell you my kids school is a large, affluent school and we have probably 200 kids in a graduating class that would be top 10 in your average 2a or 3a high school.

I just don't think many folks realize how much the population of the state has grown, esp with young people.

Hell, didn't Frisco just announced something like their 11th HS opening? Their only HS was a 3a school 15 years ago, weren't they?

---

In 2017 almost 2/3 of the student body was not in the top 10%. If these kids in "large, affluent schools" have so much trouble getting in when a majority of the spots are still available then maybe they didn't deserve to be there. Just because you came from money doesn't make you smarter, it just makes you a snobby elitist.

Also acting like small rural schools are just filling up all the spots is ridiculous. Only 15% of the state's population is rural. Assuming the amount of high school students is evenly distributed based on the overall population, that's only 1.5%, leaving a whole 8.5% for the "affluent" kids.

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I can see where you might have read this a certain way. I certainly didn't mean to imply elitism, but simply the larger schools have so many more resources than most of the rural districts. As I do still have family that lives rural, I get the sense that many of us city folks are viewed this way. I can't speak for everyone, but I simply went where the jobs were. I suspect most are in the same boat.

I think my son is going to graduate with around 11 AP courses. There are many schools in Texas that he could have never done that. Not saying it's right; just the way it is.

Oh no! The sky is falling the sky is falling!!!

Top Chef said:

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If you guys knew what was going on at our campus in Qatar, you would be disgusted.

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Please enlighten me. I'm genuinely curious.

If the College of Engineering could somehow identify kids who want to actually BE engineers instead of just getting PAID like engineers, that would be a big step forward.

And dear Lord, could we churn out a few who can write a coherent technical report? Amen.

Top Chef said:

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If you guys knew what was going on at our campus in Qatar, you would be disgusted.

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So, what's going on?

PFG said:

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schmellba99 said:

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NOT a fan of turning A&M into a fuggin diploma mill.

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Obtuse. Yeah you.

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You are one to talk. Go back to the OB and make a fool of yourself there.

Toodles.

SECTAMU#1 said:

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Top Chef said:

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If you guys knew what was going on at our campus in Qatar, you would be disgusted.

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So, what's going on?

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They are ordering white gold rings

Texas A & M said:

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Given the capacity of Kyle, Reed, etc., the majority of students will not attend games or Muster. It will be a very different student experience.

Quote:

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The unprecedented growth in student enrollment since 2012 has strained every aspect of the campus environment, imposing burdens on staffing, faculty and teaching resources, space, transportation, technology and virtually every campus service. The university has not yet caught up.

Although growth has significantly slowed, with freshman class sizes holding relatively steady for the past few years, slow growth is expected to continue. Over the next few years enrollment is likely to approach 75,000 students

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https://provost.tamu.edu/Strategic-Planning

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Won't matter at Reed!

tjholley16 said:

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schmellba99 said:

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NOT a fan of turning A&M into a fuggin diploma mill.

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you do realize how high the admission standards are now right? There are many former students from the 80s and 90s who wouldn't even make it in now.

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I do. I also realize that growing to 75k students is not a good thing. How this is hard to see is beyond me, and tells me that our diploma mill is cranking diplomas out left and right.

We have increased the student enrollment by 20k in 9 years. You cannot convince me that was done methodically, rationally, logically and with all contingencies planned for and that the students get the same type of education and experience now that they did when we were a much smaller and better managed school.

Quote:

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In 2017 almost 2/3 of the student body was not in the top 10%. If these kids in "large, affluent schools" have so much trouble getting in when a majority of the spots are still available then maybe they didn't deserve to be there. Just because you came from money doesn't make you smarter, it just makes you a snobby elitist.

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There's so much gaming of the GPA system, it's ridiculous. People have extenuating circumstances. One girl took a dance class, and they thought they were rewarding her by giving her both a fine arts credit and a PE credit - nope, all it did was double her grade points for level work. One child spent the last day of the semester hospitalized. Because she was officially registered for school at the hospital, all her AP credits (tests she passed that year) counted as "on level" grade points (AP Spanish IV as a 9th grader, AP Geography). One child took a Credit By Exam, and the school counted the passing score and computed it as grade points.

The message is clear - don't get sick, don't challenge yourself too much, don't take anything on-level because you enjoy learning...but then they get to college and the message is repeated.

With all of the money and resources, maybe A&M could spend a little time trying to find new students who can be trained to solve real problems beyond mastering a scantron. Wishful thinking, I know...

The texas system is far superior than ours and how it happened, intentional or not is moot. Every year this is a hot topic debate, and I read every excuse on why that is. We have no system school that compares to UTD or UTSA at this point.

This boils down to conflicting views on what the main campus's mission is. Growing the alum base isn't a pillar for that mission. If'were growing for the sake of population growth then why bother even having an A&M system? I remember before I was admitted they'd tell me you can't throw a stick in Texas without hitting an Aggie.

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We have no system school that compares to UTD or UTSA at this point.

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Add Cougar High and Tech and we could have A&M-Houston and A&M-Lubbock. That's about what it would take.

Other than Galveston and Qatar, what is our next best school - Commerce?

94chem said:

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Other than Galveston and Qatar, what is our next best school - Commerce?

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When I was at A&M, I didnt even know PVAMU was part of our system. I understand the history behind HBCUs, but there's maybe three that carry some prestige- Howard, Hampton and Morehouse. With all the resources behind A&M, there's no reason why PV couldn't be on the same tier as those.

Our system is a joke compared to texas.

Spyderman said:

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schmellba99 said:

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NOT a fan of turning A&M into a fuggin diploma mill.

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Ummmm...I dunno...more Aggies in this world might be a good thing?

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It depends on how you define Aggie and if the graduates fit the definition. I'm not sure SOME (maybe even "many", probably not "most") of the students/grads I've encountered display what I think many view as the requisite traits of "Aggies."

redd38 said:

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There are way too many students now.
You olds can't even imagine how long the line at the Zachry Starbucks is now! I'm sure old army just walked right up to the counter and ordered. Now the line is so long that sometimes I just have to go to the Starbucks vending machine! When will this madness end Mr. Sharp???

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FYI, I'm old and we used to wait in long lines at the creamery to get a milkshake! I wouldn't wait 5 seconds for anything they sell at Charbucks....just sayin!

94chem said:

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Quote:

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We have no system school that compares to UTD or UTSA at this point.

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Add Cougar High and Tech and we could have A&M-Houston and A&M-Lubbock. That's about what it would take.

Other than Galveston and Qatar, what is our next best school - Commerce?

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Galveston and Qatar are considered campuses and not separate schools.

rsf0626 said:

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I would assume alot of this is directly related to the population explosion in the state of Texas. Demand is insanely high

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Hmm... if only we had a case study, say, an hour drive down the freeway...

tu has kept their undergrad population hovering around 50k for decades. They let in less than 40% of applicants. We let in over 70%.
They outrank is in literally every single academic discipline.

Bigger does not equal better. We aren't Arizona State.

I had a small paragraph typed out here. But I've decided to change it just in case the wrong person reads it. I'm just going to keep things to myself for the time being.

Bo Darville said:

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94chem said:

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Quote:

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We have no system school that compares to UTD or UTSA at this point.

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Add Cougar High and Tech and we could have A&M-Houston and A&M-Lubbock. That's about what it would take.

Other than Galveston and Qatar, what is our next best school - Commerce?

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Galveston and Qatar are considered campuses and not separate schools.

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You don't say...

touchdown96 said:

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Wait...what? What evidence exists that A&M has become a diploma mill?

Admissions standards are up but demand is still so high that A&M gets more top flight students applying than previous years.

Yes the school has grown by over 30,000 students since the mid to late 90s but if the university is admitting qualified students of higher academic caliber, what's the problem?

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What, 68-69% acceptance rate?

It's a good education, but it's hard to call it elite.

Acceptance rate has proven to be an almost useless metric with the 10% rule. You have to look at the quality of the students over time and compare that to our peers. As far as I can tell from SAT score, ACT scores, GPAs, etc, the quality of A&M students has increased at a similar or better rate than other TX schools which is incredible given our growth.

BlackBear1 said:

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Acceptance rate has proven to be an almost useless metric with the 10% rule. You have to look at the quality of the students over time and compare that to our peers. As far as I can tell from SAT score, ACT scores, GPAs, etc, the quality of A&M students has increased at a similar or better rate than other TX schools which is incredible given our growth.

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70% of the applicants are just super bright.

We know kids are getting dumber and have less mastery over subjects leaving high school than they did 20-30 years ago. Yet colleges everywhere are increasing their incoming class GPA and SATs? It's an illusion.

Again, the 70% number includes Blinn Team and PSA. Most of those kids never step foot on campus.

Bo Darville said:

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Again, the 70% number includes Blinn Team and PSA. Most of those kids never step foot on campus.

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Why include them? Then we don't know what the real acceptance rate is. A breakdown should be provided. Are this Blinn and PSA admits GPA and SAT factored into the average as well? If we cut them out maybe we will have a real idea of the incoming class.

Bo Darville said:

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Again, the 70% number includes Blinn Team and PSA. Most of those kids never step foot on campus.

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No, Blinn TEAM students take at least one class on the A&M campus every semester (normally). They can live on campus, and they have access to just about everything a "normal" A&M student would.

Been seeing a lot of articles come out lately about the huge career gap that's happening because everyone is pushing getting a 4 year degree at a college. I think if one wants to make some serious money, because of these shortages, they should start considering the trade industry. Here's just one of many articles...

https://www.npr.org/sections/ed/2018/04/25/605092520/high-paying-trade-jobs-sit-empty-while-high-school-grads-line-up-for-university