AgPrognosticator said:
If anyone thinks Sumlin could have righted the ship like Sherman did, send me a PM, I have some oceanfront property to sell you....
Sherman was and is a better football coach the Sumlina and it's not even close.
AgPrognosticator said:
If anyone thinks Sumlin could have righted the ship like Sherman did, send me a PM, I have some oceanfront property to sell you....
Sherman was and is a better football coach the Sumlina and it's not even close.
Quote:
Sherman was a great coach, must be why he got another head coaching job right away.
Showstopper said:
Yeah but Fran left the cupboard bare in Miami, that high school in Massachusetts, and Montreal.
Agvet12 said:
Ever been to Easthamm Mass?? It's a beach town, with maybe 1500 residents year around, and it's one of the few high schools on the upper cape. He's lucky to have a full team.
Agsuffering@bulaw said:Quote:
Sherman was a great coach, must be why he got another head coaching job right away.
First, UA was desperate because of bad timing. Rich Rod was not fired until January 3, 2018. Most know, but early-mid December is the time to hire College HC's.* We hired Jimbo on Dec 1, 2017.
Arizona fired Rich Rod over a slew of Title IX claims. He was only fired after UA's outside counsel concluded it's internal investigation in late December.
UA hired Sumlin because the options were limited. Anybody doubt, see below. They were considering names like Jeff Tedford, Seth Littrell, and Butch Jones...retreads
https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/arizona-coaching-candidates-jeff-tedford-seth-litrell-butch-jones-among-top-choices/
Second, Sherman got a job as the OC for the Dolphins. Sumlin will never get hired as a pro coordinator, and probably never again be a college OC.
Currently, Sherman is now JFF's HC in Canada.
Stoops gave him the Co-OC title for resume fluff. Sumlin has not called plays since 2002 and is probably not capable. It is why Sumlin did not strip Spav of play-calling. Sumlin knew that he could not do a better job. A real Offensive HC would have stepped in and taken over play-calling in 2015.
Sumlin will never be a professional HC, nor OC, nor positions coach, nor anything else. He does not know enough football.
Sumlin will crash so unbelievably hard at Arizona. He might have a good year initially because of Khalil Tate, but he will tank by year 3 or 4. Arizona cannot recruit against USC and UCLA. About the only programs with inferior recruiting positions to UA are Washington St and Oregon St.
And, most middle class PAC programs have superior coaches: Utah, WSU, Colorado, Oregon. ASU doesn't and Cal's is unproven.
Sumlin is a decent recruiter, but look at his situations. At UH, he was able to recruit AAC level athletes without going more than an hour from home. He was at a huge advantage. At A&M, he was the only SEC program in the state. He had far greater resources than the majority of the conference.
Sumlin won most of his games at UH and A&M after KK left by, out-athleting opponents. Superior coaches like Dan Mullen and Hugh Freeze pushed it in him when they had halfway decent athletes.
Sumlin has never built anything. Sherman rebuilt us about 3/4 of the way (where we still are today). Briles rebuilt UH.
*Most NFL wait until either their team is out of the playoffs, or gets knocked out.
Seersucker Ag 2011 said:
Absolutely zero other schools wanted to hire Sherman before or after he coached at A&M. He literally can't win anything unless he has Brett Favre in his prime under center. He got fired from coaching high school and will get fired in the CFL.
He recruited worse and had a worse record than Fran. He didn't want to coach in the SEC. The love affair with him and the revisionist history is bizarre. He was terrible by every metric. Facts over feelings.
Sumlin > Fran > Sherman... and I'm no real fan of any of these coaches.
Seersucker Ag 2011 said:Agvet12 said:
Ever been to Easthamm Mass?? It's a beach town, with maybe 1500 residents year around, and it's one of the few high schools on the upper cape. He's lucky to have a full team.
The school has 1103 students. They were a few seasons removed from 6-5 and 9-2 records.
Agsuffering@bulaw said:
The Dolphins are a poorly run organization. Sherman had success as an OC with the Texans.
Sherman could have found another college job if he wanted it. He did not. I don't blame him. College coaches have to spend a good chunk of time selling recruits and politicking with alums.
Sherm's bread and butter is scouting and development. Sumlin is all about talking, his only marketable skill.
The one concession I will make is that Sherman could not have done what Sumlin did in 2012, even though Sumlin caught several breaks. Pressure got to Sherman, especially in games we were expected to win. The pressure does not get to Sumlin, because he believes his own lies. He is supremely self-confident.
His weakness is that because he believes his lies, he is unable to correct problems. He only hired Chavis and then Mazzone b/c the bigs made him.
I am NOT saying that Sherm was SEC champion material, he was not. But he was good enough to show up in 2008 and restock the cupboard, mostly by scouting and development. Sherman did not have the SEC to sell until late in 2011. The sips and ou were both rolling. Sumlin could not have righted the ship.
EDIT: And I believe Sherman was good enough to win 9 games most years in the SEC. The SEC brand is an awesome recruiting weapon. IF anyone doubts, watch Sumlin attempt to recruit to Arizona.
Boy...you have really been googling Mike Sherman a lot lately....or I guess you just have all of his info bookmarked.HoustonAg2106 said:Agsuffering@bulaw said:
The Dolphins are a poorly run organization. Sherman had success as an OC with the Texans.
Sherman could have found another college job if he wanted it. He did not. I don't blame him. College coaches have to spend a good chunk of time selling recruits and politicking with alums.
Sherm's bread and butter is scouting and development. Sumlin is all about talking, his only marketable skill.
The one concession I will make is that Sherman could not have done what Sumlin did in 2012, even though Sumlin caught several breaks. Pressure got to Sherman, especially in games we were expected to win. The pressure does not get to Sumlin, because he believes his own lies. He is supremely self-confident.
His weakness is that because he believes his lies, he is unable to correct problems. He only hired Chavis and then Mazzone b/c the bigs made him.
I am NOT saying that Sherm was SEC champion material, he was not. But he was good enough to show up in 2008 and restock the cupboard, mostly by scouting and development. Sherman did not have the SEC to sell until late in 2011. The sips and ou were both rolling. Sumlin could not have righted the ship.
EDIT: And I believe Sherman was good enough to win 9 games most years in the SEC. The SEC brand is an awesome recruiting weapon. IF anyone doubts, watch Sumlin attempt to recruit to Arizona.
His "success" with the Texans equated in back to back last place finishes in the AFC South (and didn't Kubiak call the plays anyway?). Sherman has been a coach on a team with a winning record ONE time since 2005, try to spin that doctor.
I am well aware that he is a respected coach, but the above post that I quoted even alludes to him not being a good head coach in collegeCobra39 said:Boy...you have really been googling Mike Sherman a lot lately....or I guess you just have all of his info bookmarked.HoustonAg2106 said:Agsuffering@bulaw said:
The Dolphins are a poorly run organization. Sherman had success as an OC with the Texans.
Sherman could have found another college job if he wanted it. He did not. I don't blame him. College coaches have to spend a good chunk of time selling recruits and politicking with alums.
Sherm's bread and butter is scouting and development. Sumlin is all about talking, his only marketable skill.
The one concession I will make is that Sherman could not have done what Sumlin did in 2012, even though Sumlin caught several breaks. Pressure got to Sherman, especially in games we were expected to win. The pressure does not get to Sumlin, because he believes his own lies. He is supremely self-confident.
His weakness is that because he believes his lies, he is unable to correct problems. He only hired Chavis and then Mazzone b/c the bigs made him.
I am NOT saying that Sherm was SEC champion material, he was not. But he was good enough to show up in 2008 and restock the cupboard, mostly by scouting and development. Sherman did not have the SEC to sell until late in 2011. The sips and ou were both rolling. Sumlin could not have righted the ship.
EDIT: And I believe Sherman was good enough to win 9 games most years in the SEC. The SEC brand is an awesome recruiting weapon. IF anyone doubts, watch Sumlin attempt to recruit to Arizona.
His "success" with the Texans equated in back to back last place finishes in the AFC South (and didn't Kubiak call the plays anyway?). Sherman has been a coach on a team with a winning record ONE time since 2005, try to spin that doctor.
You don't want him to be, but Sherman is a respected football coach at all levels. Sumlin is a borderline "fraud".
The above post that you quoted is a good summary of the two.
Cobra39
This GIF is just painful to watch. As much as I'd like Sherman to be successful he just looks like a confused old man.PooDoo said:
Ronnie Mund said:
Literally lol'ing at people that think Sherman is somehow a good coach. Then again, this board's overall football IQ is really, really low.
51 - 26 in the SEC and Sumlin is a fraud?Cobra39 said:Boy...you have really been googling Mike Sherman a lot lately....or I guess you just have all of his info bookmarked.HoustonAg2106 said:Agsuffering@bulaw said:
The Dolphins are a poorly run organization. Sherman had success as an OC with the Texans.
Sherman could have found another college job if he wanted it. He did not. I don't blame him. College coaches have to spend a good chunk of time selling recruits and politicking with alums.
Sherm's bread and butter is scouting and development. Sumlin is all about talking, his only marketable skill.
The one concession I will make is that Sherman could not have done what Sumlin did in 2012, even though Sumlin caught several breaks. Pressure got to Sherman, especially in games we were expected to win. The pressure does not get to Sumlin, because he believes his own lies. He is supremely self-confident.
His weakness is that because he believes his lies, he is unable to correct problems. He only hired Chavis and then Mazzone b/c the bigs made him.
I am NOT saying that Sherm was SEC champion material, he was not. But he was good enough to show up in 2008 and restock the cupboard, mostly by scouting and development. Sherman did not have the SEC to sell until late in 2011. The sips and ou were both rolling. Sumlin could not have righted the ship.
EDIT: And I believe Sherman was good enough to win 9 games most years in the SEC. The SEC brand is an awesome recruiting weapon. IF anyone doubts, watch Sumlin attempt to recruit to Arizona.
His "success" with the Texans equated in back to back last place finishes in the AFC South (and didn't Kubiak call the plays anyway?). Sherman has been a coach on a team with a winning record ONE time since 2005, try to spin that doctor.
You don't want him to be, but Sherman is a respected football coach at all levels. Sumlin is a borderline "fraud".
The above post that you quoted is a good summary of the two.
Cobra39
Ronnie Mund said:
Literally lol'ing at people that think Sherman is somehow a good coach. Then again, this board's overall football IQ is really, really low.
What is better 25-23 in the SEC or 15-18 in the Big 12?Slicer97 said:
He wasn't 51-26 in the SEC. He was 25-23 in the SEC. He was 14-16 against the SEC West. That's what makes him a fraud.
So Sumlin's conference record (playing in the SEC) is still better than Sherman's overall record (playing powerhouses like Arkansas State).Slicer97 said:
He wasn't 51-26 in the SEC. He was 25-23 in the SEC. He was 14-16 against the SEC West. That's what makes him a fraud.
Yes and Sherman lost to teams that were both the class of the conference as well as inferior opponents. Take away the top 2 conference opponents on both of their resumes and Sumlin's conference record is 24-12 while Sherman is 13-12.Agsuffering@bulaw said:
OK, let's talk about the Texans. Kubiak took over a team that went 2-14. They won 6 in year 1 and 8 in year 2. By year 2, the offense was good. The defense was the problem.
Let's talk about the SEC. Programs with comparable resources and recruiting position:
-LSU (0-6)
-Bama (1-5)
-Auburn (3-3)
-UGA (NA)
-UF (1-1)
-UT (1-0) [this one is debatable, their recruits must come from other states]
Total: 6-15
Sumlin could not hang with the class of the conference. He won by out-athleting lesser programs.
Slicer97 said:
He wasn't 51-26 in the SEC. He was 25-23 in the SEC. He was 14-16 against the SEC West. That's what makes him a fraud.
ShermanAgsuffering@bulaw said:
OK, let's talk about the Texans. Kubiak took over a team that went 2-14. They won 6 in year 1 and 8 in year 2. By year 2, the offense was good. The defense was the problem.
Let's talk about the SEC. Programs with comparable resources and recruiting position:
-LSU (0-6)
-Bama (1-5)
-Auburn (3-3)
-UGA (NA)
-UF (1-1)
-UT (1-0) [this one is debatable, their recruits must come from other states]
Total: 6-15
Sumlin could not hang with the class of the conference. He won by out-athleting lesser programs.
Agsuffering@bulaw said:
OK, let's talk about the Texans. Kubiak took over a team that went 2-14. They won 6 in year 1 and 8 in year 2. By year 2, the offense was good. The defense was the problem.
Let's talk about the SEC. Programs with comparable resources and recruiting position:
-LSU (0-6)
-Bama (1-5)
-Auburn (3-3)
-UGA (NA)
-UF (1-1)
-UT (1-0) [this one is debatable, their recruits must come from other states]
Total: 6-15
Sumlin could not hang with the class of the conference. He won by out-athleting lesser programs.
Agsuffering@bulaw said:
Sherman didn't have the SEC to sell until late in 2011...
And I believe Sherman was good enough to win 9 games most years in the SEC. The SEC brand is an awesome recruiting weapon. IF anyone doubts, watch Sumlin attempt to recruit to Arizona.
