Right but Chad Morris hasn't had a winning season in three years at the pony express school.

Get Dabo or Briles (if he's innocent like BU's letter says he is) here and within three years we would be in the CFP. Texas is simply the best state for football, bar none. Kyle Field is one of the best stadiums in all of college football. There's no excuse for us not competing for a natty year in and year out after all of the recruits we've picked up since Sumlin arrived. It's embarrassing.

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Texas is simply the best state for football, bar none.

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Not anymore ...

AGGies0311 said:

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Right but Chad Morris hasn't had a winning season in three years at the pony express school.

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That is the main reason he should NOT be considered as a candidate.

TxAg76 said:

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Too many meddling BMAs who think they know what's best, but really have no clue, acting like a pack of wombats who let their ego overthrow sound decision making.

We've never won it big, at least not in the modern era of how players/scholarships get handled since they were regulated, therefore we don't know what it takes, and wouldn't be able to recognize it if it were staring them in the face.

They (we) all wanna win. Big. And now. They just don't know what that means, and in the interim look like a bunch of monkeys trying to F a football.

Change that.
Florida's athletic program and accomplishments are impressive, going beyond football as well.
Replicate that.

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Yes, Florida is a public university that has excelled in athletics (not just one or two sports, but several, including football, basketball, and baseball) and they have a good academic reputation.

gnarley tuna said:

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AGGies0311 said:

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Right but Chad Morris hasn't had a winning season in three years at the pony express school.

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That is the main reason he should NOT be considered as a candidate.

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Football ignorance!

Quote:

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Why is A&M not an elite football program?

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Was pondering this last night, actually. My conclusion is that there are too many cooks (BMA) in the kitchen and we need to outsource hiring. Hire a consulting firm and let them make the hire. We are just doing it wrong.

RGLAG85 said:

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gnarley tuna said:

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AGGies0311 said:

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Right but Chad Morris hasn't had a winning season in three years at the pony express school.

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That is the main reason he should NOT be considered as a candidate.

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Football ignorance!

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Which part are you ignorant of?

Trooper1016 said:

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If we were the only school in Texas to get Texas high school talent we'd be fine. But we split with bama, TU, Baylor, tech, rice, uh, tcu, ou, okie lite, lsu, and ND. Bama compete with auburn and lsu. There is plenty of talent in Texas but they are fanned out to other institutions

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There is a lot of truth in this statement. Texas is a great recruiting ground, but that talent gets diluted to so many D-1 schools pulling on it. OU, tu, tech, Okie State, A&M, Arkie, LSU always pull top talent in different directions. We aren't currently like USC who can pull the best from California and the rest of the scraps go around to everyone else.

Since we are in the SEC, we could be like USC but we have to win a few SEC championships first. That means maxing out what we can get to get there.

JFFFOREVERRR said:

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Let's get down to the real question.. Why is A&M not as good of a program as an Alabama? Is it the resources? facilities/stadium? alumni support? Student body & fan support? Are they in a better football state/region? I think we can all agree that it's none of these things; A&M is as good if not better than an Alabama in all of these categories.

So then what is it that an Alabama has over A&M? That would be a winning tradition, better coaching, and a culture that promotes winning & doesn't tolerate mediocrity.
That's the difference. If A&M wants to take that step, it's going to start with changing this culture that tolerates mediocrity. Once that happens then the better coaching can come and that will lead to a winning tradition over time.

The Aggie mentality and tradition of being loyal to mediocrity is what's keeping this program from reaching its potential. What A&M lacks is a winning culture. Anyone who defends Sumlin or 8-4 seasons at this point is part of the culture problem.

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Reasons:

School is too conservative and No cheerleaders - this stinks of narrow-mindedness and freaks some recruits out
Poor deep south and national recruiting efforts
Offense is too gimmicky
Lack of discipline
Poor assistant hires - imo, Mazzone is more of a problem than Sumlin
Don't go to Houston to make your "splash" hire. Need to hire a big shot away from a big time program.

7v7 isn't helping statewide
Lack of creativity, inability to adjust, no trick play efforts

Need a defensive minded head coach, young creative O coord.
If Sumlin doesn't reach 8 wins via bowl game, he is gone.

Long term, sports teams that consistently do well have the right people making the decisions. And I think you could also say that teams that consistently don't do well have the wrong people making decisions. Unfortunately, after watching Aggie football for thirty five years, I think A&M has the wrong people making decisions.

JFFFOREVERRR said:

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Let's get down to the real question.. Why is A&M not as good of a program as an Alabama? Is it the resources? facilities/stadium? alumni support? Student body & fan support? Are they in a better football state/region? I think we can all agree that it's none of these things; A&M is as good if not better than an Alabama in all of these categories.

So then what is it that an Alabama has over A&M? That would be a winning tradition, better coaching, and a culture that promotes winning & doesn't tolerate mediocrity.
That's the difference. If A&M wants to take that step, it's going to start with changing this culture that tolerates mediocrity. Once that happens then the better coaching can come and that will lead to a winning tradition over time.

The Aggie mentality and tradition of being loyal to mediocrity is what's keeping this program from reaching its potential. What A&M lacks is a winning culture. Anyone who defends Sumlin or 8-4 seasons at this point is part of the culture problem.

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I don't know about academics comparisons, but I would have to believe standards are lower there than at A&M. With our current growth though in our student body size, I am unsure.

Why is Alabama Alabama and A&M is A&M?

I'll tell you why.

Because they walked in here one day and took Bear Bryant from us; we returned the favor several decades later by taking Dennis Franchione from them.

This x a million!

We knew Sumlin wasn't going to work out after 59-0, but yet he's still here. Those schools you mentioned let a coach go immediately when it is apparent he isn't going to get it done. We keep a coach 3-5 years after we figure out the same thing. We are too nice and have no killer instinct; and that's why we don't win titles.

My thoughts after reading these posts in this thread is that a common theme is easily seen. We have had very few hard nosed, no nonsense coaches that preach toughness, grit, a never ****ing quit attitude, and a killer instinct. Oddly enough these are the same attributes that we seek in our military war fighters, instilled in our contract Corps, and celebrated in our Former Students both in military service, in government, and business.

Coaches like Saban and Meyer are those type of coaches. These types of men attract certain types of players -those who embody the characteristics mentioned and who are physical and who are committed to a process.

The hallmark of Alabama's success, I believe hinge on the coaches mentality and also two other key ingredients:

1. Having players understand that "the process" is key. This means that when they sign they realize that they will likely not play as freshmen - but they will be developed. It seems like Alabama continually reloads but they do so with juniors and seniors who have waited their turn and earned the playing time. You have to be damn good to play early at 'bama. I believe that Saban does not woo recruits with promises of playing time as true fish or even redshirt freshmen or sophomores. Hopefully we can build to that but I personally think that we land a good many recruits by promising early playing time. Thats why we are perpetually a young team. Again this takes time but it also takes kids who are committed to "the process" and who are willing to wait their turn. Sadly this is antithetical to our societal culture these days.

2. Alabama and other elite programs recruit nationally. We have some exceptional talent in Texas but we need to do a better job of expanding our reach into all parts of the country. Another post mentioned this when debating whether Texas is producing elite level defensive talent. We have got to shed this regional, Texas centric mindset and go get the best football talent in Florida, New Jersey, Mississippi, California, etc. Then we will be a truly national program.

I don't know if we have the right guy at this time. KDS certainly has not shown a killer instinct, thats for damn sure. I, for one. am tired of style over substance. I don't care if kids celebrate when they make plays to a point but also act like you've been there and for God's sake don't take your foot off the pedal until the game clock hits 00:00.

A&M leadership (for lack of a better term) just doesn't know how to create an elite athletic program. A&M has more money than brains.

JFFFOREVERRR said:

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Let's get down to the real question.. Why is A&M not as good of a program as an Alabama? Is it the resources? facilities/stadium? alumni support? Student body & fan support? Are they in a better football state/region? I think we can all agree that it's none of these things; A&M is as good if not better than an Alabama in all of these categories.

So then what is it that an Alabama has over A&M? That would be a winning tradition, better coaching, and a culture that promotes winning & doesn't tolerate mediocrity.
That's the difference. If A&M wants to take that step, it's going to start with changing this culture that tolerates mediocrity. Once that happens then the better coaching can come and that will lead to a winning tradition over time.

The Aggie mentality and tradition of being loyal to mediocrity is what's keeping this program from reaching its potential. What A&M lacks is a winning culture. Anyone who defends Sumlin or 8-4 seasons at this point is part of the culture problem.

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This should be sent out to the entire Aggie network. If people can't give honest real criticism because they are hiding behind their "I bleed maroon, etc, etc", then they are part of the problem. The Aggie faithful need to cut the crap and start getting real.

No one else tolerates the level of mediocrity that we do in Aggieland. That coach should have been looooooooong gone! Heck with class, fire him like yesterday!

JFFFOREVERRR said:

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Let's get down to the real question.. Why is A&M not as good of a program as an Alabama? Is it the resources? facilities/stadium? alumni support? Student body & fan support? Are they in a better football state/region? I think we can all agree that it's none of these things; A&M is as good if not better than an Alabama in all of these categories.

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Actually, I would not agree that we're as good or better than Bama in those. Both schools have resources. Student body and fan support: our students, despite the perpetual New Army complaints are fine. But we don't have the level of Wal-Mart t-shirt fans. Whether those matter; I don't know. But if having fans who are freaking insane helps, Bama probably has more.

The football state/region comparison is flawed because as others have pointed out, Bama recruits nationally while A&M recruiting is more regional. This is where history matters. You can't just tell our staff to go out and recruit nationally. We do that to some extent. But tradition = brand recognition = more success at national recruiting.

Quote:

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So then what is it that an Alabama has over A&M? That would be a winning tradition, better coaching, and a culture that promotes winning & doesn't tolerate mediocrity.
That's the difference. If A&M wants to take that step, it's going to start with changing this culture that tolerates mediocrity. Once that happens then the better coaching can come and that will lead to a winning tradition over time.

The Aggie mentality and tradition of being loyal to mediocrity is what's keeping this program from reaching its potential. What A&M lacks is a winning culture. Anyone who defends Sumlin or 8-4 seasons at this point is part of the culture problem.

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It is correct that winning tradition comes from better coaching - in the absence of cheating, luck in coaching hires and recruiting is also a factor. But what is not clear to me is where the line is between toxic impatience and overly tolerating mediocrity. And that line is probably different at A&M than it is at established powers like Bama. The problem has a couple of aspects IMO, that lead to tu "cesspool" territory.

There's a vicious feedback cycle where fans think that they should be able to hire a Saban or Meyer level coach. That leads to hiring someone who comes in knowing that they weren't the first choice, with that idea also broadcast to every recruit in the country. Which in turn makes in hard for a coach to focus on their process vs. handling the meddling of the armchair coaches among the big cigars.

This also biases fans to want to hire established coaches who may not be at the phase of their career to take a program from 8 wins to 12 or more. It makes it much harder for an AD to hire an Urban Meyer out of Utah, or a Jim Harbaugh out of San Diego. Or Saban out of Mich State. I suspect that if we had replaced Synder with Dave Aranda as DC in 2015 instead of with Chavis, a large part of this board would have freaked out.

None of this means Sumlin is the right guy. IMO, Sumlin's problem is that he had early success with JFF and the HUNH Air Raid. The SEC, and especially Saban adapted, the rules changed, and KDS was smart enough to eventually realize that the long term success required moving away from the offense that worked with Johnny. But replacing it with anything more conventional is trying to beat Saban at his own game.

Agnzona said:

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Op is dead on. Loyalty to mediocre is our weaknesses not a strength.

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Loyal to mediocrity? I'm sorry, but when did this become a thing?
I keep seeing it, but it doesn't make any sense to me.

If we're so "loyal to mediocrity" why do we keep firing our coaches? Wouldn't we still have Fran? Sherm was a great mediocre coach. Why didn't we keep him? Am I missing something here?
Why is everyone so upset we lost to UCLA? Why did we spend like half a zillion dollars renovating Kyle Field?

Hi, Im Brett said:

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Agnzona said:

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Op is dead on. Loyalty to mediocre is our weaknesses not a strength.

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Loyal to mediocrity? I'm sorry, but when did this become a thing?
I keep seeing it, but it doesn't make any sense to me.

If we're so "loyal to mediocrity" why do we keep firing our coaches? Wouldn't we still have Fran? Sherm was a great mediocre coach. Why didn't we keep him? Am I missing something here?
Why is everyone so upset we lost to UCLA? Why did we spend like half a zillion dollars renovating Kyle Field?

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Let me help you. If you read the following from the Coaches Hot Seat, mediocrity is literally just above average...

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Overall: 44-22
SEC: 21-19
Against FBS Teams: 26-22
Against Group of 6 Teams: 12-0
Against FCS Teams: 6-0

Yep...take away the 18 Cupcakes that Kevin Sumlin has played and beat at A&M and we are talking about winning percentages of...

SEC: .525
Against FBS Teams: .542

...and for the above Very Average Records Kevin Sumlin has already been paid north of...

$25 Million Dollars

...and Texas A&M still owes Sumlin over $11 Million Dollars if they fired him today!

$35+ Million Dollars for a .542 record against FBS teams and .525 record in SEC play?
What kind of Damn Idiots are running Texas A&M University exactly?

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Three words: Fran, Sherman, Sumlin

Quote:

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Loyal to mediocrity? I'm sorry, but when did this become a thing?
I keep seeing it, but it doesn't make any sense to me.

If we're so "loyal to mediocrity" why do we keep firing our coaches?

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We do fire coaches, but we take too long to do it:

Fran lasted 5 years (probably at least 2 years too long)

Sherman lasted 4 (argument was there to fire after year 2 and he prob was on his way to maybe getting axed after year 3, but then he had the strong finish in year 3 so he was retained)

Sumlin is here 6 (probably at least 2 years too long, maybe even 3)

Imho, we wasted 5-7 seasons on mediocre coaches

Make the moves quicker and we could have tried at least 1, possibly 2 more coaches if need be and we'd have a better chance of having "our guy" by now

Blind loyalty is our biggest problem.

How many threads do we see that tell us to "back the team, back the coach..." etc? Or Aggies don't quit?

Blind loyalty keeps us from admitting the truth about coaches that aren't working out.

Hi, Im Brett said:

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Agnzona said:

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Op is dead on. Loyalty to mediocre is our weaknesses not a strength.

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Loyal to mediocrity? I'm sorry, but when did this become a thing?
I keep seeing it, but it doesn't make any sense to me.

If we're so "loyal to mediocrity" why do we keep firing our coaches? Wouldn't we still have Fran? Sherm was a great mediocre coach. Why didn't we keep him? Am I missing something here?
Why is everyone so upset we lost to UCLA? Why did we spend like half a zillion dollars renovating Kyle Field?

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I truly hope that this was done in sarcasm and doesn't reflect a rational thought .
Our problem go back a lot further than the memories of probably the majority of the posters on this thing. The biggest mistake in our football history ( besides keeping Sumlin 3 years too long) was the promotion of RC when we abandoned Jackie. RC was a DC that absolutely maxed out as a DC ( he was also the bag man on the staff) . His record is worse than Sumlins when you look at his winning pct vs teams ranked at the end of the season. Just like today we had the sips on the ropes thanks to the momentum , Jackies talent and weakness of the dying SWC yet we failed to capitalize. Winning 8 or 9 games in the SWC was about as meaningful as winning the MAC....yet we kept him for years and years as the world passed us by. Since Jackie we have hired exactly ONE quality national acclaimed coach ( Fran) and he turned out to be our biggest bust.
We have made EXACTLY TWO correct coaching hires since Emery ...Jackie and Fran and went .500 on that. Other than those guys not a SINGLE Aggie HC has had any national status and has excited the football world. NOT ONE was ever recruited by another quality program and NOT ONE has achieved 1/2 of what Jackie and even Emery accomplished.
The sips have done it right since DKR... They did not accept mediocrity , they screwed up on about 3 hires, cut them QUICK and ended up with ole Yellow Teeth and a MNC or 2.... They will do it again in about 3 years if Herman doesn't work out. They GET IT !!!

RC is the winningest coach in our history, so...........

AGGies0311 said:

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RC is the winningest coach in our history, so...........

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You would be also IF you played his schedule ....thats the point. Show me the bowl wins ..show me the top 5 finishes, show me the W's over top 10 teams ( ranked at the end of the season) .... When our WINNINGEST coach in our program history has so FEW national accomplishments to show THATS proof enough for me'

MY MOTHER would be the winningest coach playing a SWC schedule where you are spotted 8 wins before a single Sept snap !!!

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He ran Urban Meyer out of the SEC...

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Blaming Saban for other schools' lack of success is really pushing it. Meyer was stressed at Florida because of the criminal antics of the players. He had complete control while at Utah and few of the players gave him any problems (one got suspended for shoplifting, of all things). Saban's teams have had their own collapses from time to time as well.

RC's last year. Beat OU (#1) at Kyle Field

2000... beat #10 KState....

A lot of his losses at the end were to ranked (top 10) teams

AGGies0311 said:

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RC's last year. Beat OU (#1) at Kyle Field

2000... beat #10 KState....

A lot of his losses at the end were to ranked (top 10) teams

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you are making my point....

SORRY for the thread derail..... I was simply refuting the notion that we " fire" coaches to often ..Didnt mean to get into the RC debate..waste of time ..this has been beaten to death..NOTHING will change my mind nor the RC lovers minds...

JFFFOREVERRR said:

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Let's get down to the real question.. Why is A&M not as good of a program as an Alabama? Is it the resources? facilities/stadium? alumni support? Student body & fan support? Are they in a better football state/region? I think we can all agree that it's none of these things; A&M is as good if not better than an Alabama in all of these categories.

So then what is it that an Alabama has over A&M? That would be a winning tradition, better coaching, and a culture that promotes winning & doesn't tolerate mediocrity.
That's the difference. If A&M wants to take that step, it's going to start with changing this culture that tolerates mediocrity. Once that happens then the better coaching can come and that will lead to a winning tradition over time.

The Aggie mentality and tradition of being loyal to mediocrity is what's keeping this program from reaching its potential. What A&M lacks is a winning culture. Anyone who defends Sumlin or 8-4 seasons at this point is part of the culture problem.

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Oh my goodness, dude. Please.

Some of y'all act like since A&M got a facilities upgrade a few years ago that every other school's facilities are completely prehistoric in comparison. That is not the case whatsoever.

Look, I think A&M fans are unique and passionate just as much as any other, but literally 30-40 schools if your including basketball schools have claims to the degree of "we're the best fans" or "we have the best alumni"

You honestly think that A&M's stadium is perceived better than Bama's just because it's slightly newer and a little bigger? You honestly think that alumni support is better when the school is literally in the middle of a situation where a BoR member publicly called out the head coach? You think the student body and fan support is better just because you think it is? Do you know how many Bama fans there are WORLDWIDE??

The reason A&M football isn't as good of a program as Alabama is because a.) almost all football programs aren't as good as Alabama, and b.) they win and we haven't. Plain and simple. End of story.

A&M hasn't won a national championship since 1939. No, that doesn't mean we should accept it for absolute truth and not strive for it. But that also means that Texas A&M has so very far to go before they're even in that discussion. I mean, you're talking about a program that has 1 10-win season in the past 18 years. What did you expect this guy to do when he showed up and everyone expected A&M to win 4-5 games in his first season in the SEC.

The choke was bad. There's no denying that it was mediocre-level football that lead to an 18-min collapse like that.

However, you can't sit here and bellow that A&M is mediocre just because they can't beat LSU or Bama, teams that most opponents can't beat. No one's being loyal to mediocrity. If Sumlin doesn't win enough games this year, he'll be released.

But seriously, if you really wonder why A&M isn't on the same footing as Bama, Ohio State, or Notre Dame... there are 78 years worth of reasons why

I agree that he had to go. Fran was seen as the next best thing, but Bama was sure willing to part with him....

Claiming premier program status by asserting we should is pushing on a string. Doesn't do absolutely anything except prove one can piss and moan at the same time.

The Original AG 76 said:

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The sips have done it right since DKR... They did not accept mediocrity , they screwed up on about 3 hires, cut them QUICK and ended up with ole Yellow Teeth and a MNC or 2....

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Sure, if by "QUICK" you mean giving each as much or more time than we gave Fran & Sherm


Akers - 10 seasons
McWilliams - 5 seasons
Mackovic - 6 seasons

Fran - 5 seasons
Sherm - 4 seasons

I'm not sure there is anything on the planet more overrated than Texas high school football.