too many other factors can affect total yards
Was the player being pulled after 3 quarters
How fast was the offensive tempo
How bad was the defense
Just to name a few

I've never seen someone turn a game around the way Johnny did in the bowl game against Duke.

derekjohnson15 said:

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I've never seen someone turn a game around the way Johnny did in the bowl game against Duke.

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Amen! in that game Johnny was beyond phenomenal.

bglass85 said:

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derekjohnson15 said:

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I've never seen someone turn a game around the way Johnny did in the bowl game against Duke.

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Amen! in that game Johnny was beyond phenomenal, and in that game he did it with his play and his leadership.

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BMX Bandit said:

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Total yards should not be the measure of GOAT. It's a factor, but not the most important one.

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Looking at some of the other stats (2012 Johnny to 2010 Newton):

Games played: Johnny 13, Cam 14

Completions: Johnny (295 to 185)
Comp. Pct.: Johnny (68.0 to 66.1)
Yards (passing): Johnny (4114 to 2854)
Passing TDs: Cam (30 to 26)
INTs: Cam (7 to 9)
QB Rating: Cam (182 to 155.3)

Yards (rushing): Cam (1473 to 1410)
Rush Avg: Johnny (7.0 to 5.6)
Rushing TDs: Johnny (21 to 20)
Receiving TDs: Cam (1 to 0)

Definitely a debate, but I still take 2012 Manziel over 2010 Newton on my dream team.

PATs
Johnny 0-1
Cam 0-0?

Cam 2010 and Marcus Allen 1981 are about the only players in the conversation, and RB doesn't have quite the impact on a game that a QB does. Johnny had the greatest 2 year run I've ever seen. And I'm freaking old.

dixichkn said:

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Cam 2010 and Marcus Allen 1981 are about the only players in the conversation, and RB doesn't have quite the impact on a game that a QB does. Johnny had the greatest 2 year run I've ever seen. And I'm freaking old.

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Marcus Allen over Barry Sanders?

b4-4 at home in conference games IIRC
IMO JFF is not even in the conversation on that one stat
People getting excited about how the Ags gashed Duke in the 2 nd half why did the ags have a great comeback because the team offense and JFF included were not very good in the first half

If he finds away to win the Bama game at kyle he plays for championships and maybe he is in the conversation but as it turned out no div title much less conf title

JFF was not good enough that day IIRC
a red zone int near the end of the first and
another int early in the seconf half after the D forced a punt on Bama's first possession

regarding Cam Stats vs JFF total offensive plays and number of offensive possessions would be helpful

I'm with you on the 4-4 stat, as I understand to be in the GOAT conversation you've got to have a championship ring on your finger most of the time, but that's about it here honestly. I may be mistaken but pretty sure we put up 24 points in the first half against Duke in '13. To call that a bad offensive performance is false. He then went on to completely take over the second half. As far as the bama game goes, to say "Johnny wasn't good enough that day" is absolutely crazy man. The dude put up 500yds on a saban coached defense that had like 8 or 9 NFL caliber players on it. If we have any defense at all that day we win by 10+ IMO.

Sq 17 said:

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b4-4 at home in conference games IIRC
IMO JFF is not even in the conversation on that one stat
People getting excited about how the Ags gashed Duke in the 2 nd half why did the ags have a great comeback because the team offense and JFF included were not very good in the first half

If he finds away to win the Bama game at kyle he plays for championships and maybe he is in the conversation but as it turned out no div title much less conf title

JFF was not good enough that day IIRC
a red zone int near the end of the first and
another int early in the seconf half after the D forced a punt on Bama's first possession

regarding Cam Stats vs JFF total offensive plays and number of offensive possessions would be helpful

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Should Johnny be penalized for playing on a team with one of the worst defenses in A&M history? The problem with the "championships" arguement is that you're putting teammates into the equation instead of just focusing on the individual player.

that 2012 defense wasn't one of the worst in A&M history.

BMX Bandit said:

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that 2012 defense wasn't one of the worst in A&M history.

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but 2013 was

Sq 17 said:

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regarding Cam Stats vs JFF total offensive plays and number of offensive possessions would be helpful

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Johnny had 635 plays, Cam had 544.
Not sure on possessions.

I don't really care about stats. My eyes don't lie and I've never seen **** like this before on any level, have you?

The_chum said:

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. I may be mistaken but pretty sure we put up 24 points in the first half against Duke in '13.

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it was 38-17 in the third based on the clip that is above this post and the offense was terrible too many 3 and outs and a couple turnovers

still to be in the conversation of being an all time great he has to beat bama in kyle and go on to beat Auburn a few weeks later then not get hurt late in the season. Durability ( which is sometimes just being fortunate ) is part of being on the list of all time greats

I am old enough to remember the cougar high run n'. shoot so points and yards dont impress me much

The run JFF had to end his fish year and win the heisman was epic and the team was as good as any team in the nation at the end of the year. Scheduling really hurt the ags that year with bothUF and LSU early in the season. So JFF was in postion to make the list of all time greats if he could have had a great soph year but that didnt happen

17 points in a half isn't too terrible by an offense though IMO. Absolutely though I can respect all of that. My only argument to your run 'n shoot point is that those teams were doing that against the same caliber competition JFF was, I don't really think that's debatable

One of his most impressive plays is when he ran down that guy that picked up the goal line fumble and knocked the ball loose and got a tackle.

He's the GOAT... imagine if he had a halfway competent defense in 2012

The_chum said:

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17 points in a half isn't too terrible by an offense though IMO. Absolutely though I can respect all of that. My only argument to your run 'n shoot point is that those teams were doing that against the same caliber competition JFF was, I don't really think that's debatable

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in 2012 when JFF put on his run the ags had already played and lost to 2 out of 3 of the best teams on the schedule. La Tech was our marquee OOC gameIirc

great win over bama even better win over OU

auburn was bad arky was bad ( Petrino canned after motorcycle crash ) in ooc the ags played 2 FCS opponents (Sam & SCSU) SMU & LaTech
once you get past UF, LSU, bama it was not a strong schedule and the ags were 1-2 in those three games and the offense scored 17,19,29

LSU was closer to mid season and JFF did not get the win so to be among the all time greats he needed to beat LSU in year one and/or Bama in year 2 If the ags win either game the ags are likely in the SEC CCG and playing for the MNC

JFF was slightly better than Ware or Klingler or Kingsbury The ags those two years looked very similar to cougar high of the early 80's or tceh when The Pirate was running thngs in Lubbock

Gregg Papivich said:

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He's the GOAT... imagine if he had a halfway competent defense in 2012

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Did you watch our team 2012? doesn't sound like it.

Espn showed an infographic one day a couple of years ago that showed how many extra points a game the top college players of all time were worth to their team. JFF was worth like an extra 3 touchdowns. The next closest was mariota I think, and he was worth like 15 extra points a game.

It's not even debatable.

Champ Bailey said:

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Espn showed an infographic one day a couple of years ago that showed how many extra points a game the top college players of all time were worth to their team. JFF was worth like an extra 3 touchdowns. The next closest was mariota I think, and he was worth like 15 extra points a game.

It's not even debatable.

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almost everything is debatable and since when did texags start giving any cred to ESiPN opinions

I think a lot of people call him the GOAT because he beat Bama in their house and won the Heisman, thus bringing us a lot of attention. This is all great but it is limited in scope. Very reminiscent of Brian Bosworth

I'm sure Cam Newton is called the GOAT on the Auburn boards for winning both a National title and Heisman.

IMO there is no such thing as a GOAT for just one part of your life. You have to be consistently great. Two of the best years in A&M football history doesn't exactly equate to being the Greatest of All time if you can't continue to be successful. That would be like Michael Phelps being called the GOAT after winning gold in Athens and then not even being on the podium at the next three Olympics.

Earl Campbell, Bo Jackson, Barry Sanders and Herschel Walker are IMO GOATS. Is Johnny on the same level as them?

GOAT at Texas A&M, most likely.

Sq 17 said:

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Champ Bailey said:

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Espn showed an infographic one day a couple of years ago that showed how many extra points a game the top college players of all time were worth to their team. JFF was worth like an extra 3 touchdowns. The next closest was mariota I think, and he was worth like 15 extra points a game.

It's not even debatable.

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almost everything is debatable and since when did texags start giving any cred to ESiPN opinions

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It's not their opinions, it was statistics. Big difference.

And not really. The job of the offensive player is to score points. Johnny was worth more points per game than anyone else in the history of the sport.

For those questioning why anyone would call him the GOAT, it's certainly not unreasonable to argue that he had the best first two years of a college career ever. The best college player ever almost certainly had to play three or four years, but looking at the first two years and leaving Manziel out of the conversation is madness.

2/7Marine0311 said:

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I think a lot of people call him the GOAT because he beat Bama in their house and won the Heisman, thus bringing us a lot of attention. This is all great but it is limited in scope. Very reminiscent of Brian Bosworth

I'm sure Cam Newton is called the GOAT on the Auburn boards for winning both a National title and Heisman.

IMO there is no such thing as a GOAT for just one part of your life. You have to be consistently great. Two of the best years in A&M football history doesn't exactly equate to being the Greatest of All time if you can't continue to be successful. That would be like Michael Phelps being called the GOAT after winning gold in Athens and then not even being on the podium at the next three Olympics.

Earl Campbell, Bo Jackson, Barry Sanders and Herschel Walker are IMO GOATS. Is Johnny on the same level as them?

GOAT at Texas A&M, most likely.

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hard to deny any of that. I'm obviously bias, but for the young bucks like me (24 and under), I think he's the best player of our generation IMHO. I understand he didn't win the big one, but the numbers speak for themselves and so do the highlights.

Could have been the greatest if he stuck around for two more years. The NFL flameout was easy to predict.

JW said:

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Could have been the greatest if he stuck around for two more years. The NFL flameout was easy to predict.

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Have to disagree to an extent... whether or not his skill set would transfer to the NFL was always in question, but i don't think we expected him to flam eout. Hell, we knew he'd party, but never guessed that he'd prioritize booze/drugs over football (especially during the season). More of an epic fail at maturity.

I'm still rooting for the JFF comeback, but it's more likely to occur in the Great White North than the NFL. I'm still looking for that one team willing to give him one more chance because that's about the extent of his extra chances. Good luck Johnny.

I love these threads where a few come off as highly critical, perfection demanding ***** that "aren't impressed" by things that they couldn't even imagine doing in 10 lifetimes. Johnny Manziel was the most exciting player I've ever seen in college football. Period.

In my lifetime of watching college football:
1) Tim Tebow
2) Cam
3) Johnny
4) Vince Young

Don't get me wrong, Tebow is my guy, but severely overrated IMO. They padded his stats pretty bad during his four years at UF. He was also surrounded by some unbelievable talent. He's a competitor and great dude, but I'd take JFF and Cam over him every day if the week. Coin flip between him & VY

bglass85 said:

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derekjohnson15 said:

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I've never seen someone turn a game around the way Johnny did in the bowl game against Duke.

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Amen! in that game Johnny was beyond phenomenal.

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TAKE IT!!