We still have the 17th ranked class after the Kyle Allen/Kyler Murray/Tate "sissy" Martell debacle. We currently have the 6th ranked class for 2016. We have 4-6 legitimate NFL prospects on the roster today. I sometimes want to choke Coach Sumlin for consistently throwing the ball behind the line of scrimmage on bubble screens and hitches or not running the football but if I stopped and asked "what's better than what I have now?" I can't come up with much.

Yes I know we all want to win 11 games, beat Bama and LSU by forty and play in a national championship but i'm a realistic Aggie fan it's going to take time to build the program from the Sherman era and when I mean time I mean 5-7 years. Sumlin is entering that period where he has to start competing and beating the better teams agreed. But I now believe we have one of the best coaching staffs in America to develop our players into top SEC caliber football players.

With recruiting classes continuing to come in, NFL prospects playing on both sides of the ball and now coaches who actually can coach a player up to compete in the SEC I am willing to let Sumlin plant the flag and keep going in the right direction.

Gig Em'

If a&m is 1-9 against bama and lsu in five seasons at the end of this season, I'm not sure what the answer is but that's not any good.

I agree 100% but who else is NOT 1-9 in the last 5 years against those two teams?

He will need at least 4 more 4* players to keep that top 6 ranking. I'm hoping he does, but arecruiting ranking 7 months before signing day isn't worth anything.

We'll need more than 4. Last year the 10th ranked class had 2 five stars and 10 four stars. We will be lucky to land 1 five star, although at this point I don't see us landing any. Without a five star, we pretty much need 13-14 four stars and only have six at this point.

A lot will come down to whether some of our current guys get bumped up, otherwise despite our current ranking, we're looking more at the 13-18 range as of now than top 10.

Shhh! Don't use logic, it will just provoke them

Hugh Freeze is 4-4 against them for one, with less resources than us.

Not that I'm saying we should replace Sumlin with Hugh Freeze, just giving an example because I think there are plenty of coaches that could have more than 1 win against those 2 teams after 5 years. Lets hope Sumlin is one of them, meaning beating 1 or both of them this year.

These are juggernaut teams, no doubt, but that doesn't mean we should just accept our place and think 1-9 is just fine because gee golly, every coach would be 1-9 against them.

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Hugh Freeze is 4-4 against them for one, with less resources than us.

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You sure about that? I think Freeze has had an incredible amount of re$ource$ to work with at Ole Miss IYKWIM. That ridiculous 2013 class he signed reeked of re$ource$.

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I agree 100% but who else is NOT 1-9 in the last 5 years against those two teams?

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Ole Miss, Arkansas, and Auburn.

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Hugh Freeze is 4-4 against them for one, with less resources than us.

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You sure about that? I think Freeze has had an incredible amount of re$ource$ to work with at Ole Miss IYKWIM. That ridiculous 2013 class he signed reeked of re$ource$.

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Plus he has God on his side. That's the only explanation for that Bama game last year.

1. I don't care how other teams do against Bama and LSU, I care only how ATM does.
2. But since the question was posed, in our own division we know Ole Miss is better. Without looking I'm guessing Auburn is as well. If they can be, so can we.

True that. But overall, they still haven't recruited any better than us. They average right around the 11th ranked class, similar to us. We have better 2014 and 2015 classes, they had better 2013 and 2016 classes. Still, there's a huge gap between the 4-4 he is against them and the 1-7 we currently are. We absolutely have to beat one of LSU or alabama this year. This is our best roster we have had on paper since Sumlin has been here. Obviously 2012 came together perfectly and had a better QB and OL, but overall, this should definitely be our best team we have had since 2012. It should also be better than the 2017 team based on what we lsoe after this season.

If you go 0-2 against them again, and basically have 8 straight losses to them, when are we ever going to beat them? Saying that most coaches would be 1-9 against those two teams with a school with our resources just simply isn't giving us credit. We definitely shouldn't have overtaken either of them by now, but we should be competing better than that.

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Hugh Freeze is 4-4 against them for one, with less resources than us.

Not that I'm saying we should replace Sumlin with Hugh Freeze, just giving an example because I think there are plenty of coaches that could have more than 1 win against those 2 teams after 5 years. Lets hope Sumlin is one of them, meaning beating 1 or both of them this year.

These are juggernaut teams, no doubt, but that doesn't mean we should just accept our place and think 1-9 is just fine because gee golly, every coach would be 1-9 against them.

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Less resources. They are straight up paying players and not even trying to hide it.

Oh, I don't disagree with any of what you posted there. Just commenting on the lack of Ole Miss resources. There is exactly zero reasons Ole Miss would be recruiting anywhere near the level of us if they were not paying players. And I think an argument can be made that they have fielded a better and deeper defensive unit than us each and every year - with this year being the first exception. And a good defense is what it will take to win games against Bama and LSU.

But you are right, this is the year we need to see something change.

So, you're just thinking we should be upsetting them more often, right?

We have the resources, yes, but we're still behind the Bamas and LSUs from a program standpoint and in combined talent + depth. Most of the country is too.
Look at the quantity of players they put in the NFL, on average. Now look at ours. They probably double us up? And then they reload and do it again the next year. And the next year.

We're getting there. Let it cook. Don't lose sight of how far behind them we really started from. Doesn't mean we weren't decent, just not a tough, consistent, week in week out SEC beatdown ax grinding good.
JFFs ability covered up a lot of the program shortcomings, in terms of SEC caliber. His 2nd year shed some light on the lack of depth, particularly on defense. And then his first year away is when the curtain got pulled back and we could see how young we really were, and how thin we were in SEC talent and depth.

It still takes +/-9 months to make a healthy baby. Now you can go out and get 9 women pregnant and hope for a 1 month delivery if you want, but i don't think that's how that math works.

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I agree 100% but who else is NOT 1-9 in the last 5 years against those two teams?

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So the standard should be let's just beat everyone but those two teams?

No wonder John Sharp is our Chancellor and so many people accept his version of mediocrity.

You people are soft.

i don't share op's optimism.

chavis is the only check mark sumlin gets from me.

don't have any confidence that mazzone will work out any better than the christensen hire.

2012 provided a perfect launch pad for sumlin and he pissed it away.

As stated us and Miss St are the sole teams that have but one win against Bama and LSU. Arkansas, Ole Miss and Auburn have all won more against Bama and LSu since Sumlin has been here. So when you ask who could do better against them, perhaps the better question is who could do worse (apparently nobody currently coaching in the SEC west).

It's year 5 and there has been plenty of time to have built something for this upcoming season. We need to win at least one out of Bama and LSU and start winning at home more if we are to make that next step and if Sumlin is the right guy.

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i don't share op's optimism.

chavis is the only check mark sumlin gets from me.

don't have any confidence that mazzone will work out any better than the christensen hire.

2012 provided a perfect launch pad for sumlin and he pissed it away.

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I'm pretty meh about Sumlin, but I can just about guarantee that Turner + Mazzone will be much better than Christensen + Spav. Forcing Christensen, a knowledgable but notoriously cantankerous fifty four year old, to report to Spav, an incompetent twenty nine year old, was destined to end up with a staff mutiny, exactly like it did. Mazzone is a little older than Turner, and more important, he's competent and a professional. I expect the two of them to bring some much needed stability and consistency to that side of the ball. That is, at minimum, the OL won't to be hopelessly confused as a result of being caught in the middle of a schematic cold war between two coordinators vying for control.

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Hugh Freeze is 4-4 against them for one, with less resources than us.

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You sure about that? I think Freeze has had an incredible amount of re$ource$ to work with at Ole Miss IYKWIM. That ridiculous 2013 class he signed reeked of re$ource$.

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When we sign a top five class this year, will it reek of resources or will we just say its solid recruiting? And if we have a mediocre year , who's fault will it be this time?.....we've run out of coordinators to blame.

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Hugh Freeze is 4-4 against them for one, with less resources than us.

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You sure about that? I think Freeze has had an incredible amount of re$ource$ to work with at Ole Miss IYKWIM. That ridiculous 2013 class he signed reeked of re$ource$.

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When we sign a top five class this year, will it reek of resources or will we just say its solid recruiting? And if we have a mediocre year , who's fault will it be this time?.....we've run out of coordinators to blame.

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That's not just sour grapes; they've literally said they paid players

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Hugh Freeze is 4-4 against them for one, with less resources than us.

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You sure about that? I think Freeze has had an incredible amount of re$ource$ to work with at Ole Miss IYKWIM. That ridiculous 2013 class he signed reeked of re$ource$.

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When we sign a top five class this year, will it reek of resources or will we just say its solid recruiting? And if we have a mediocre year , who's fault will it be this time?.....we've run out of coordinators to blame.

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ole miss has been 20s even down to 41 in 2012, then suddenly in 2013 #7. Immediately back to the 20s then right back to #8 last year. Interesting, no?

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i don't share op's optimism.

chavis is the only check mark sumlin gets from me.

don't have any confidence that mazzone will work out any better than the christensen hire.

2012 provided a perfect launch pad for sumlin and he pissed it away.

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I'm pretty meh about Sumlin, but I can just about guarantee that Turner + Mazzone will be much better than Christensen + Spav. Forcing Christensen, a knowledgable but notoriously cantankerous fifty four year old, to report to Spav, an incompetent twenty nine year old, was destined to end up with a staff mutiny, exactly like it did. Mazzone is a little older than Turner, and more important, he's competent and a professional. I expect the two of them to bring some much needed stability and consistency to that side of the ball. That is, at minimum, the OL won't to be hopelessly confused as a result of being caught in the middle of a schematic cold war between two coordinators vying for control.

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Exactly.

And not only is the Mazzone / Turner combo mucho better than the Spav / DC combo, Knight provides stability and leadership at QB, something the Allen / Cryler combo lacked.

Our O will be much improved and The Chief is getting our D up to speed. Yeah, we may not be at the level of Bama and LSWho yet, but we are gaining ground on them. And we can definitely compete against Ole Miss, Auburn, Miss St and the Pigs.

This is a solid staff now. I agree that it took awhile to get here but better late than never.

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We'll need more than 4. Last year the 10th ranked class had 2 five stars and 10 four stars. We will be lucky to land 1 five star, although at this point I don't see us landing any. Without a five star, we pretty much need 13-14 four stars and only have six at this point.

A lot will come down to whether some of our current guys get bumped up, otherwise despite our current ranking, we're looking more at the 13-18 range as of now than top 10.

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You guys take these rankings waaay too seriously.

Would you rather have a 5 star smurf at QB who played against suspect competition or a 3 star 6' 6" QB who played against tough competition? We all know who Mazzone preferred.

His teammate from Pearland isn't ranked all that high either but he is a 6'3" Corner that can lay the wood. Not many of those. Hence why The Chief likes tall DBs. I think we all remember how Harris would get manhandled by big WRs.

Likewise, Green is a smart, athletic 6'6" 270
O Lineman that Turner can turn into a beast in a couple of years.

Bottom line is that Mazzone, Chavis and Turner scout talent better than these recruiting services. If these three are getting the players they want, we will compete against Bama and LSU.

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I agree 100% but who else is NOT 1-9 in the last 5 years against those two teams?

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Ole Miss, Auburn, LSU, Alabama....

Don't care about recruiting anymore (I'm past the mythical recruiting titles, #SWAGCOPTER, #WRTS, #YESSIR blah blah blah.) I'm glad our program hasn't tanked in that regard (especially if there has to be a "next guy") but the end of this year will only be telling for me in the W-L column.

I certainly don't expect perfection however, the mid-season crashes the last two years were ridiculous. There isn't any reason why our team can't win 8-9 games with our defense alone. We shall see...

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He will need at least 4 more 4* players to keep that top 6 ranking. I'm hoping he does, but arecruiting ranking 7 months before signing day isn't worth anything.

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Hezekiah Jones and Ceedee Lamb are both 4* WRs and considered heavy Aggie leans, so he's probably already halfway there.

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I agree 100% but who else is NOT 1-9 in the last 5 years against those two teams?

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Well who else has our facilities and the luxury of recruiting in their home state of Texas which is arguably the best football state to recruit in? To put it another way I am tired of A&M doing less with more. It seems all our other sports have more consistent success than the football program.

Regarding Hugh Freeze - his coaching level is above Sumlin's so far. His talent level on the field is no better than what we've had to work with. In fact I'd argue we have had much more talent on campus than he has had to work with.

But but we have resources...we have to win!!!

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Hugh Freeze is 4-4 against them for one, with less resources than us.

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You sure about that? I think Freeze has had an incredible amount of re$ource$ to work with at Ole Miss IYKWIM. That ridiculous 2013 class he signed reeked of re$ource$.

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When we sign a top five class this year, will it reek of resources or will we just say its solid recruiting? And if we have a mediocre year , who's fault will it be this time?.....we've run out of coordinators to blame.

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That's not just sour grapes; they've literally said they paid players

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well mom's $300 electric bill isn't going to pay itself.

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But but we have resources...we have to win!!!

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I know... Sounds very sip like.

These posts are for January. Right now he's our coach for this season and we'd best support him. If the results aren't there at the end of November then it's time to light fires.

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I agree 100% but who else is NOT 1-9 in the last 5 years against those two teams?

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Ole Miss, Auburn, LSU, Alabama....

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LSU can't play themselves, and they're 0-5 against bama the last 5 years. auburn has won one more game against those two teams than we have in the last 5 years.

Another setback the program has had under Sumlin in addition to a few coaching hires is the horrendous attrition of the highly rated 2013 class. Those guys would be RS Jrs or Srs this year and obviously one year less last year. But the point is that they would/should be the heart of the team right now. Imagine what the predictions for this coming season would be if we had all those guys as experienced starters.