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Wait until some of TOS update their rankings. And then look at some 3-star guys that we have had... Do any of you care that Josh Reynolds was a 3-star? I doubt it

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Monthly Newsletter I could subscribe to?

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I don't currently have any printed.... But if you want to read it, I left a rough draft over at Fishin's place.

Sumlin has stated that they have changed their recruiting tactics now that there is depth in place. Maybe they are staying away from grade risk and trouble makers and going after proven hard workers. They are looking for kids that will peak in years three and four in the program and don't have to come in SEC ready.

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After careful evaluation, our coaching staff is getting EXACTLY who they want early on in the recruiting process. This should tell you everything you need to know. They don't give a **** about recruiting service opinions.

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Yes I'm sure they wouldn't prefer to have 20 5* guys already committed...

I am sure the coaches are getting the best guys they can and that some of our internal evaluations are slightly different than the recruiting services, but the often posted idea that somehow a 3* guy committed to us must have been our top target is a little ridiculous.

And that's not a knock on any of our guys, just an acknowledgment that 5* guys aren't usually ratted that way by mistake.

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You might want to see what these guys do their Sr year before giving two ***** about rivals and 247. or, you could be listen to what some guy from some recruiting website thinks.

I can tell you this, the TE that just verbeled is more than a 3* and will contribute in more ways than TE.

There are too many kids for the services to give everyone a proper evaluation. The staff sees what they want in these kids or they would not be offering this early. That is a fact. I guess you think Sumlin and Chavis are just punting and feel like they should give up a full season before signing day.

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Where exactly do you think recruiting services get the info they use to give out stars? They get it FROM COACHING STAFFS. Of course the recruiting guys aren't really evaluating every guy, but what they can do pretty easily is compile lists of visits, camp invites, and offers.

I'm sure our coaches are very good with thier evaluations and I'm sure they aren't offering guys who they don't think can play. Still it's just silly to think that the top rated players on everyone else's boards aren't also probably on the top of ours.

And strangely, when our class is rated in the top 5, almost everyone on here seems to think the recruiting services are doing a great job at talent evaluation....

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Seems like the general consensus out there is that the prospects in Texas are slower to commit this year in general than they have been in the past several years.

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Here are the 46 Texas players who are rated 4 stars or higher by 247 composite. 24 players have committed. A&M has only 3 and tu has only 2. TCU with 5 has as many as A&M and tu combined! Baylor has as many as A&M. Out of state schools have 8 of the 24. There is something wrong with our recruiting.

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Why don't we wait until NSD to determine whether there's something wrong with our recruiting?

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Why don't we wait until NSD to determine whether there's something wrong with our recruiting?

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Because by then it is too late. The fans have stepped up recently and are paying national title type money, both in coaches salaries and facilities. We gave Sumlin a check and are paying our coordinator almost as much as we paid Sherman. We aren't paying Sumlin $2 million and have crappy facilities anymore. We need to be recruiting at a national title contender level aka Ohio St, FSU, Bama level. Last year at this time we were around #2 in the country when you look at avg player rating. This year we are 18th even when it is limited to teams with 8 players or more. Recently we have hit a string of players rated between #500-750. And I'm told we are set to add 2 more.

We need more h&b.

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Where exactly do you think recruiting services get the info they use to give out stars? They get it FROM COACHING STAFFS. Of course the recruiting guys aren't really evaluating every guy, but what they can do pretty easily is compile lists of visits, camp invites, and offers.

I'm sure our coaches are very good with thier evaluations and I'm sure they aren't offering guys who they don't think can play. Still it's just silly to think that the top rated players on everyone else's boards aren't also probably on the top of ours. And strangely, when our class is rated in the top 5, almost everyone on here seems to think the recruiting services are doing a great job at talent evaluation....

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All schools think recruiting services are doing a great job when they have a top ranked class. That's because it's easy to see that a 5 star is a 5 star. It's finding the 2, 3, and 4 star guys that will end up being 5 star guys.

Three of the most dominate players A&M has had in the past few years were three star guys at the end of their HS Jr year.

JFF
Miller
Evans

If it makes you feel less butt hurt...
I'm positive Irvin Smith will be a 4 star before the end of his Sr. season.

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There is a reason a lot of the Texas top 40 isn't committing to us so far. They did the last 2 years, but not this year

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Hmm. I didnt know recruiting was over for this year.And you never expounded on that REASON. So Sumlin is done. Somebody better tell him before he signs too many. Personally I think you're an idiot if you cant see what we are working with now, and what we have been. That.. and I'll just leave the process to Sumlin and Chavis to evaluate what our needs are. Sumlin stated at the Houston Touchdown Club that he has his plan and is working that plan. But to hear you tell it. it's all over but the shoutin.

People like you and Bone6 must really be a joy to be around. And just in case you havent noticed. Sumlin is a better coach than the last few we've had. So dont forget where we come from. Let the man earn his money. We are not in the SWC or the BDF anymore. The level of competition we have faced is brutal. And I think he has held his own with the pitfalls that he has had to overcome with a defunct QB last year and injuries sustained to key positions at which he hasnt up until this year had a chance to get some depth at. That, and all the true freshman and redshirt freshman we had to play. Let it play out, and stop removing the doubt of your ignorance on the game of football in general.

I'm the bad guy because I'm talking about reality now. You guys who over rationalize everything are the problem. We've underperformed on the field And we've lost some recruiting momentum. Acknowledging that truth doesn't mean that big picture that the course which is set for this program is still a really good one.

The irony is when we lose a game or something doesn't go our way this fall, I'll be called a "sunshine pumper" when I say it's not the end of the world/our staff shouldn't be fired (probably by some of the same people on this thread).

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I'm the bad guy because I'm talking about reality now. You guys who over rationalize everything are the problem. We've underperformed on the field And we've lost some recruiting momentum. Acknowledging that truth doesn't mean that big picture that the course which is set for this program is still a really good one.

The irony is when we lose a game or something doesn't go our way this fall, I'll be called a "sunshine pumper" when I say it's not the end of the world/our staff shouldn't be fired (probably by some of the same people on this thread).

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No, you're bad because you are overreacting. We are a long way away from signing day and you have no idea what Sumlin's new recruiting tactic is. We know he has a different tactic this year because he has said so.

What he stated indicated that they don't need to depend on guys coming in a contributing from day one this year. That tells me that they are choosing guys that are low risk with room to grow for big upside. There are also some guys in there that just have not received the respect they deserve from the services.

Two that stand out to me are Charles Oliver (6'2" 185# CB) and Irvin Smith. And don't forget the 3 star Anderson twins. The have offers coming out of their ears yet chose Texas A&M.

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Why don't we wait until NSD to determine whether there's something wrong with our recruiting?

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Because by then it is too late. The fans have stepped up recently and are paying national title type money, both in coaches salaries and facilities. We gave Sumlin a check and are paying our coordinator almost as much as we paid Sherman. We aren't paying Sumlin $2 million and have crappy facilities anymore. We need to be recruiting at a national title contender level aka Ohio St, FSU, Bama level.

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Lets look at a few facts:

Fact: when we entered the SEC, we were predicted by everyone to be blown off the field. Instead Sumlin has given us three seasons that have far exceeded expectations and for the first time in A&M history, 3 straight bowl wins.

Fact: by the numbers, we are recruiting at a far higher level with Sumlin than before. Only in the peak Jackie/RC years have we recruited this good. Yes, we can give some credit to the SEC and JFF. Still, kids like Sumlin and his offensive system. You can't deny that. Out of state guys 5 star guys like Kyle Allen, Christian Kirk, and Speedy Noil prove it.

Fact: our only flaw has been defense. We have cherry picked some guys like Miles Garrett and Daylon Mack, but our overall defensive recruiting has been mediocre at best. So what does Sumlin do, he not only goes and gets one of the best DC's in college football, but the only man in the SEC who has stopped our offense. How friggin smart is that?

To me Sumlin has done a great job in most aspects of his job. When he has had problems ( law breaking players/ poor defense) he has stepped up and worked hard to fix things. That's all you can ask of any coach. Lets be realistic, A&M is not Alabama or Ohio State, Sumlin has more obstacles to overcome than Saban or Meyers. Still, Sumlin is doing a great job, and to imply otherwise, is sheer stupidity.

The only thing wrong is with the things you write on this forum!!!!

I've spent enough time on this board to know when there's a fabricated narrative, and this is one of those times.

I'm going to leave this thread to continue living my life now, so rest assured you can continue talking about Santa being real amongst yourselves and I won't reject your fragile reality.

I'm much more impressed by a recruit's offer list than their 24/7 composite or what Ketch thinks.

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I've spent enough time on this board to know when there's a fabricated narrative, and this is one of those times.

I'm going to leave this thread to continue living my life now, so rest assured you can continue talking about Santa being real amongst yourselves and I won't reject your fragile reality.

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Sure! Sumlin and Chavis are going to start grabbing 3 stars in June because it's all they can get LMAO.


GTFO with your illogical reasoning.

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I've spent enough time on this board to know when there's a fabricated narrative, and this is one of those times.

I'm going to leave this thread to continue living my life now, so rest assured you can continue talking about Santa being real amongst yourselves and I won't reject your fragile reality.

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Now you're just playing the petulant child.

I'm 52 years old and have followed A&M football since I was 18. I've witnessed the ups and downs of the program. Trust me, Sumlin is taking this program to new highs. To deny that is just being obstinate.

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Why don't we wait until NSD to determine whether there's something wrong with our recruiting?

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Because by then it is too late. The fans have stepped up recently and are paying national title type money, both in coaches salaries and facilities. We gave Sumlin a check and are paying our coordinator almost as much as we paid Sherman. We aren't paying Sumlin $2 million and have crappy facilities anymore. We need to be recruiting at a national title contender level aka Ohio St, FSU, Bama level.

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Lets look at a few facts:

Fact: when we entered the SEC, we were predicted by everyone to be blown off the field. Instead Sumlin has given us three seasons that have far exceeded expectations and for the first time in A&M history, 3 straight bowl wins.


Honest question...do you truly believe this when evaluating his true performance, ie take away the OOC schedule with no p5 teams and multipe D2 teams and he is 2 games over .500 in conference, right where they were in the Big 12, and only two wins coming vs SEC teams with winning conf records.

Has he truly "far exceeded expectations" or has he been given some help by hype based on quantity of wins vs quality. Not a flame, just want to know the context if this is how you truly feel.

I'll hang up and listen

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Lets look at a few facts:

Fact: when we entered the SEC, we were predicted by everyone to be blown off the field. Instead Sumlin has given us three seasons that have far exceeded expectations and for the first time in A&M history, 3 straight bowl wins.

Fact: by the numbers, we are recruiting at a far higher level with Sumlin than before. Only in the peak Jackie/RC years have we recruited this good. Yes, we can give some credit to the SEC and JFF. Still, kids like Sumlin and his offensive system. You can't deny that. Out of state guys 5 star guys like Kyle Allen, Christian Kirk, and Speedy Noil prove it.

Still, Sumlin is doing a great job, and to imply otherwise, is sheer stupidity.

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Sumlin "far exceeded expectations" in year 1. Not all 3 years. At least according to my expectations. Maybe yours were lower?

Yes, our recruiting was higher in 2014 and 15. But this thread is about 2016 recruiting. Why has our avg player rating dropped this year when it should be going up? And it's dropped quite a bit.

Lastly, this thread isn't a complete evaluation of the job Sumlin is doing, so don't make this thread something that it isn't with your strawman. Address the concerns about our 2016 recruiting. Thank you.

Bone6 is a sip sock. He does this schtick constantly.

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Trust me, Sumlin is taking this program to new highs. To deny that is just being obstinate.

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We finished in the top 10 in 5 of the 10 years from 1985-94. We all hope Sumlin exceeds this, but it's dumb to call people obstinate if they don't think Sumlin will take us to new highs.

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Why don't we wait until NSD to determine whether there's something wrong with our recruiting?

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Because by then it is too late. The fans have stepped up recently and are paying national title type money, both in coaches salaries and facilities. We gave Sumlin a check and are paying our coordinator almost as much as we paid Sherman. We aren't paying Sumlin $2 million and have crappy facilities anymore. We need to be recruiting at a national title contender level aka Ohio St, FSU, Bama level. Last year at this time we were around #2 in the country when you look at avg player rating. This year we are 18th even when it is limited to teams with 8 players or more. Recently we have hit a string of players rated between #500-750. And I'm told we are set to add 2 more.

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How is it too late then? We have no idea what our class will look like. Do you honestly think it would be better if we had 25 5* commits right now and they all flipped on NSD? No matter how much you want to, you simply can't judge a program's recruiting until it's actually done.

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We have no idea what our class will look like.

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Half our class is full. We have a good idea what our class will look like. Probably around 15th on a per star basis using composite ratings, which has proven to be the best indicator. With 3 good classes (2013-2015), we really needed to be top 10 and probably top 5 to be considered a legitimate title contender in 2016.

Sure, we might win anyways, but the odds aren't as good if we were recruiting top 5 classes. Don't get upset that everyone isn't mainlining maroon koolaid. We all want A&M to win the title. Some of us are discussing some potential shortcomings that we see. This doesn't mean we want Sumlin fired today.

Remember in 2013 when we gave Sumlin a huge raise that paid him more than several coaches that have won national championships, and everybody justified it by saying "look at his recruiting"

Right now is exactly why some of us said "not this again"

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which has proven to be the best indicator

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As opposed to?

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We have no idea what our class will look like.

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Half our class is full. We have a good idea what our class will look like. Probably around 15th on a per star basis using composite ratings, which has proven to be the best indicator. With 3 good classes (2013-2015), we really needed to be top 10 and probably top 5 to be considered a legitimate title contender in 2016.

Sure, we might win anyways, but the odds aren't as good if we were recruiting top 5 classes. Don't get upset that everyone isn't mainlining maroon koolaid. We all want A&M to win the title. Some of us are discussing some potential shortcomings that we see. This doesn't mean we want Sumlin fired today.

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I don't understand. A good indicator of what? You're telling me that the composite rankings in June are a good predictor of composite rankings in February? Do you have data to back this up? I'm not saying it's not true, but I'd be interested in seeing it.

And again, I'm not saying stars don't matter. I'm saying that it doesn't make sense to complain about recruiting until we've actually seen the recruiting classes. Getting verbal commitments is nice, but nothing counts until they've signed on the dotted line.

Agree with above.

A kids rating in June doesn't mean squat. IF the same kid has a lower rating in February, then i'll worry or wonder.

But right now, I'm good with this. These kids highlight reels look good and let's face it,, alot of our higher rated talent on the offensive side hasn't panned out.

I'll take 3* Josh Reynolds Or 2* Mike Evans over those higher rated guys any day.

This thread would have been more appropriate in February.

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which has proven to be the best indicator

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As opposed to?

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As opposed to any singular recruiting service. Especially when it comes to national champs. 3 of the 4 teams in the playoffs had composite top 3 recruiting classes for the prior 4 years. Oregon was the exception.

And in the SEC West we have to recruit at a high level or we probably never win our division which means no conference title and no national title. Bama, Auburn and LSU recruit at an elite level.

We were 3-5 in conference and blown out in 3 of those losses. This was in year 3. Not year 1.

Again the fans have made the financial commitment. We need to see the return. We need to start getting top 200 players not top 750.

Plus, lets face it, at least at Wide Receiver, we are deep deep. Alot of 5* prima donna types aren't going to want to take a chance here and find themselves sitting on the bench when they think they ought to be getting 100 catches a year.

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Agree with above.

A kids rating in June doesn't mean squat. IF the same kid has a lower rating in February, then i'll worry or wonder.

But right now, I'm good with this. These kids highlight reels look good and let's face it,, alot of our higher rated talent on the offensive side hasn't panned out.

I'll take 3* Josh Reynolds Or 2* Mike Evans over those higher rated guys any day.

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Would you take Joe Harrison over Luke Joeckel and Jake Matthews? Does Myle Garrett look like a good player to you? How about Kyle Allen and Speedy Noil?

5 stars are no-brainers.

But I'll take the June opinion (and scholarship offers) from Harbaugh, Patterson, Miles, Sumlin, etc. over those from Ketch, Burton, etc.

YMMV

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Agree with above.

A kids rating in June doesn't mean squat. IF the same kid has a lower rating in February, then i'll worry or wonder.

But right now, I'm good with this. These kids highlight reels look good and let's face it,, alot of our higher rated talent on the offensive side hasn't panned out.

I'll take 3* Josh Reynolds Or 2* Mike Evans over those higher rated guys any day.

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Would you take Joe Harrison over Luke Joeckel and Jake Matthews? Does Myle Garrett look like a good player to you? How about Kyle Allen and Speedy Noil?

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Absolutely not, but a kid like khalil mack is also a take every time, regardless of stars

Stop Crying. It's called player development and scheme fit. You haven't a clue when it comes to this. Top 20 classes are enough to compete for conference and national titles. I will spare you the examples so you don't have to get too schooled on the subject. Plus these guys haven't played their senior years yet.

We have enough talent along side the last few recruiting classes to do this...with mature development.

Do you get how this works? I'll answer for you...



Recruiting is only a part of the battle. USC sure did kill it with those perennial 5 star laden classes under Lane Kiffen. I trust Sumlin and Chief.

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5 stars are no-brainers.

But I'll take the June opinion (and scholarship offers) from Harbaugh, Patterson, Miles, Sumlin, etc. over those from Ketch, Burton, Jeff Hamilton82 etc.

YMMV

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Fify

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which has proven to be the best indicator

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As opposed to?

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As opposed to any singular recruiting service. Especially when it comes to national champs. 3 of the 4 teams in the playoffs had composite top 3 recruiting classes for the prior 4 years. Oregon was the exception.

And in the SEC West we have to recruit at a high level or we probably never win our division which means no conference title and no national title. Bama, Auburn and LSU recruit at an elite level.

We were 3-5 in conference and blown out in 3 of those losses. This was in year 3. Not year 1.

Again the fans have made the financial commitment. We need to see the return. We need to start getting top 200 players not top 750.

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You're *****ing about recruit rankings, then citing schools (Bama, LSU, Auburn) who have offered some of those same kids your upset about us taking.

I'd rather load up on 3* talent that will work hard, stay out of trouble, be coached, and want to win over 5* attention hoars that never see the field or may leave us at the last hour. The 2013 class is a prime example. This works well for TCU.

And as mentioned above, I suspect that much of the current commitments add a star or two before February.