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We know what he told Paterno. And yes, we can crucify him for doing nothing based on what Paterno said he was told. There are no assumptions to make. I'm going based solely on what Paterno said he was told

McQueery telling multiple versions of the story is irrelevant. Paterno only heard one version.

[This message has been edited by BMX Bandit (edited 2/10/2013 4:05p).]

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"Something of a sexual nature." That is what paterno said he was told. You are willing to crucify because you have already filled in the details in your mind with mcqueery's later testimony and your knowledge of what was in the presentment regarding the other kids. Paterno did not have that knowledge and without it could have easily not understood or watered down the gravity/severity of the issue, particularly since this was a colleague and friend with a sterling reputation.

Fondling or something of a sexual nature.

That's what Paterno says he was told. How can anyone defend him? He didn't understand? That's the excuse? Truly sick

[This message has been edited by BMX Bandit (edited 2/10/2013 4:35p).]

Also, I disagree with you that mcqueery's credibility is not relevant. Your hindsight bias not only assumes knowledge of all the other Sandusky victims, it assumes that mcqueery was telling the truth to paterno and that paterno should have believed him. The jury didn't.

Paterno had no reason to take mcqueery's account as gospel. He was a relatively unknown grad student making accusations about a well respected coach. He did however have reason to be concerned. Paterno referred the matter to administrators who were entrusted to look into it. When nothing came of it, he may have dismissed it as a wild story or a misunderstanding.

If someone who you did not know very well came to you and said they saw your sister molesting a kid, what would you do? Is it "truly sick" that you might not believe that person? What if you had referred the matter to you parents even though you really didn't believe it. Truly sick then? What abou later when nothing came of it and you assume your parents looked into it and found that the guy was mistaken or lying. Is that truly sick? What about even later when it turns out the accusations were true. Is that when it becomes truly sick?

[This message has been edited by 1aggie02 (edited 2/10/2013 5:06p).]

Sorry he should've either asked the dude to resign and turn himself into the authorities. He didn't. That's not innocent.

You people bashing Joe Pa like he was Sandusky need to get a clue.

Sure, in hindsight Joe should have done more but Joe Pa passed on the info from McQueary to his superiors. Joe Pa didn't actually witness anything.

Turn the page. Most all of us were molested somehow! In my case it was my 5th grade teacher (female) and my aunt's friend and my scout master! I am normal and happily married for 40 years! We have raised two generations of weaklings! Move on! Joe Pa for the very most part was a good man! Did he fail ...yes! Have you ever??

[This message has been edited by 67walkon (edited 2/10/2013 5:32p).]

[This message has been edited by 67walkon (edited 2/10/2013 5:35p).]

[This message has been edited by 67walkon (edited 2/10/2013 5:37p).]

Joe Pa already knew Sandusky was a creeper before this incident. Yet all along the way, he let him hang around and bring children. I hope some of you are trolls, because predators rely on spineless, excuse-making cowards like you not to call them on their ****.

NM. See it discussed above.

[This message has been edited by Rx2001 (edited 2/10/2013 5:40p).]

Hold up, so now McQueery was a stranger? Holy hell the Paterno defenders are truly out if their mind

If someone I know comes to me and says that he saw a good friend of mine fondling or doing something of a sexual nature with young boys, I'd so a hell of A lot more than Paterno did. Any person with an ounce of character would.

And taking Paterno 's sworn testimony as true is not viewing something with the benefit of hindsight

Paterno turned his head when evil was happening. And you defend that. Flipping sickening.

Paterno defenders will go to any length of cognitive dissonance to defend the guy. One of the favorite tools in their chest is to say, "well, according to just the facts..." which is a dishonest premise. It's their way of avoiding what we all know: that if you were in Jo Pa's position and knew that one of your employees was witnessed in the process of molesting a kid by another employee that you'd do more than just report it to your titular boss and then wash your hands of it. That at the very least you'd follow up. That you'd ask your boss what happened with the investigation. That if the result was that the guy was forced to resign for being a molester, you'd lock him out of the program and not give him the keys to the kingdom and an open license to molest away.

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• "Sandusky was an exceptionally effective manipulator and deceiver & One of the most respected child sexual victimization experts in the world has concluded that Joe Paterno, like many others, did not recognize Jerry Sandusky as a child molester after the 2001 incident."

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lol. If knowing that someone on your staff is sticking his little chubby in a pre-pubescent boy isn't a giant ducking red flag that someone is a child molester, i don't know what is.

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Paterno defenders will go to any length of cognitive dissonance to defend the guy. One of the favorite tools in their chest is to say, "well, according to just the facts..." which is a dishonest premise. It's their way of avoiding what we all know: that if you were in Jo Pa's position and knew that one of your employees was witnessed in the process of molesting a kid by another employee that you'd do more than just report it to your titular boss and then wash your hands of it. That at the very least you'd follow up. That you'd ask your boss what happened with the investigation. That if the result was that the guy was forced to resign for being a molester, you'd lock him out of the program and not give him the keys to the kingdom and an open license to molest away.

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So its less dishonest to just make up your own facts and judge him on those? Brilliant. Please let the lawyers know next time you are called for jury duty. You will get to go home immediately.

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If someone I know comes to me and says that he saw a good friend of mine fondling or doing something of a sexual nature with young boys, I'd so a hell of A lot more than Paterno did. Any person with an ounce of character would.

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A bit vague. Can you be more precise with what "a hell of a lot more" means? What exactly would you do? You would immediately believe that person without question? You would call the cops on your good friend immediately? What exactly?

Again, I have never once said what Paterno did was enough or that I approve of how he handled it. All I am saying is that he may fall short of the "knowing child sex predator enabler" that everyone now assumes he is. He may simply be a "negligent child sex predator enabler." He should have known, he should have done more, but he may not have known or believed Sandusky to be what he was. He may have believed McQueery was wrong or mistaken. He may have thought the school investigated and nothing came of it. He should not have thought that, but that does not make him a monster. We simply do not have much evidence of what Paterno's actual state of mind was regarding these allegations.

But I guess cause I am not quite ready to employ all my self righteous hindsight bias to crucify Paterno as a monster, that makes me sick too. Your right BMX. Can you please run for judge? You show an outstanding aptitude for reason and impartiality.

I started to type our what is do, then realized you have to be trolling.

No one us making up facts. We know what he was told & what he did. He's not a monster. He's a gutless coward POS that put his glory over kids.

Congrats. You've defended doing nothing when told kids are being molested. You should be proud.



[This message has been edited by BMX Bandit (edited 2/10/2013 6:51p).]

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Congrats. You've defended doing nothing when told kids are being molested. You should be proud.

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If this is what you think Paterno did, I really can't expect you to think critically about the events that transpired and for you to be able to put them into a real world context. Like all humans, you like to classify things. Your meager little brain just has less boxes, and I can't help with that.

BTW, respond with whatever you want, I am going to give you the last word. I am done talking about this subject. At a minimum, I think we can both agree that Paterno should have done more and that Sandusky is a monster that should rot in hell.

[This message has been edited by 1aggie02 (edited 2/10/2013 6:54p).]

That's exactly what he did.

Sorry my brain lacks the box to shrug off a report of child molestation. Maybe I can evolve to your level where foundling boys is gray area

Guess you are tired of defending the indefensible.



[This message has been edited by BMX Bandit (edited 2/10/2013 6:58p).]

1aggie02 preparing for a visit from his special friend.

Mid-level managers entrenched in bureaucracy simple "tell their supervisors" and never follow up. Joe Paterno was the CEO of Penn State football and had a statue in his honor. People don't build statues to mid-level managers. They build statues of great leaders. Great leaders hold people accountable and make sure stuff like this don't go on.

Joe Paterno knew. He admitted it to the grand jury. He was in a position to do something and did nothing.

[This message has been edited by Burdizzo (edited 2/10/2013 7:38p).]

no way to white wash the penn state scandal. the sandusky affairs had to be known by many in the penn state organization. problem:no one had the guts to be the whistle blower because of the long term problems for the school and athletic programs. so everything was swept under the rug!

also...JoePa built the culture, the beast that is/was Penn State football such that when an assistant coach (McQueery) saw a young boy being raped...he seriously never considered calling the police because that would embarrass the program -- it was ingrained into McQueery's head that the program had to be protected at all costs

The Freeh report was a pile of poo. Whether you want to piece evidence together or not for yourself, fine. Everyone has a right to their opinion, but there was ZERO information of value in the Freeh report. And I read the whole thing.
I hope noone paid him for pulling random pieces of information from various media stories cause he did no additional research for that garbage report.
Either way, JoePa got too much acclaim for his program while he was alive and too much vile hatred in his passing.
Probably the truth lies in between and it doesn't matter here on Earth. Glory on Earth doesn't matter to him anymore and if he did anything vile, he'll have to answer above.

Forget the Freeh Report and the new pro-Joe Report. The Grand Jury testimony and Spanier's emails speak for themselves. They clearly establish the following:

1. JoePa knew about Sandusky "fondling" (his words) a kid in the shower. He reported it to higher-ups.

2. The higher-ups wanted to cover it up rather than report it to the authorities.

3. JoePa spoke with the higher-ups because he was uncomfortable with a cover-up, but suggested rather than reporting Sandusky to the authorities that Sandusky be called in, presented with the information, and given counseling. JoePa did not want to see one of his friends go to prison, but was also uncomfortable with shoving everything under the rug.

4. For some reason Sandusky was allowed to stay around the program.

Only a Penn State alum would actually believe a Paterno family generated report.

People who are only talking about what McCleary told him are forgetting that Paterno knew of previous allegations against Sandusky.

If you knew of previous allegations of child molestation against some one and then you get a report that he is "fondling or something sexual in nature" a boy in the shower, you make sure the guy gets fired, you distance yourself as far as possible, and you try to get him arrested. Its really that simple.

[This message has been edited by tiger08 (edited 2/10/2013 10:48p).]

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Turn the page. Most all of us were molested somehow! In my case it was my 5th grade teacher (female) and my aunt's friend and my scout master! I am normal and happily married for 40 years! We have raised two generations of weaklings! Move on! Joe Pa for the very most part was a good man! Did he fail ...yes! Have you ever??

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Do go on.

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quote:
Turn the page. Most all of us were molested somehow! In my case it was my 5th grade teacher (female) and my aunt's friend and my scout master! I am normal and happily married for 40 years! We have raised two generations of weaklings! Move on! Joe Pa for the very most part was a good man! Did he fail ...yes! Have you ever??


Do go on.

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If there was one TexAgs idiot I'd want to drink beer with IRL, it would be Harry Lime

He's dead, it doesn't matter now, let's reassess his legacy in ten or twenty years.

[This message has been edited by njohn87 (edited 2/11/2013 6:20a).]

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No one us making up facts. We know what he was told & what he did. He's not a monster. He's a gutless coward POS that put his glory over kids.

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This!

Everyone who wishes to honor Paterno's "legacy" of winning a bunch of football games must do so in the context that when presented with the opportunity...the obligation...to do the right thing, to make a difference in real life terms, he failed miserably. While he continued to win football games, dozens of boys were abused, all because Joe Paterno did not have the guts to do what should be done.

Joe Paterno will always represent what happens when one's ego stands between right and wrong. Those who defend him are merely voicing their approval of that mindset.

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Everyone who wishes to honor Paterno's "legacy" of winning a bunch of football games must do so in the context that when presented with the opportunity...the obligation...to do the right thing, to make a difference in real life terms, he failed miserably.

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IMO if he had done the right thing he's be MOER of a hero. Everyone loves the guy who puts morals/duty over winning. Especially when you consider it was one of his closest friends and someone he's know for decades.

Think about the person you know best. The last thing you want to believe is they are a horrible monster and probably the hardest thing you'd ever do in your life is turn them in.

He could have said he was going to resign b/c of his "failure" and the board, students, EVERYONE would have hailed him as a hero and he keeps his job.

Funny, I recall as a kid being tough that lies catch up with you. When you keep telling them, they catch up part only get worse for each lie. Jo Pa's lies caught up with him.

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People who are only talking about what McCleary told him are forgetting that Paterno knew of previous allegations against Sandusky.

If you knew of previous allegations of child molestation against some one and then you get a report that he is "fondling or something sexual in nature" a boy in the shower, you make sure the guy gets fired, you distance yourself as far as possible, and you try to get him arrested. Its really that simple.

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Blue star for you. People keep forgetting that Joe knew about the previous allegation when McQuery came to him with this new situation. At that point Joe had to know this was an ongoing situation and not a one time thing.

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Exactly.

http://online.wsj.com/article/PR-CO-20130422-905271.html?mod=wsj_share_facebook

And this is a reason the Freeh report needs to be eliminated. He is relying on his name from his past career and not doing the work. Often getting paid to find results to fit what someone wants. In this case, PSU regents trying to let JoePa since he's dead and Sandusky take all the heat for this. Frankly, I thikn Joe knew the LEAST and that includes the Board.

Would I believe a thing from the Paterno's report, no. Though the intent of the Paterno report was to discredit Freeh and demand an INDEPENDENT report, opened by the NCAA, not PSU. The Freeh report was full of false and 'mixed' commentary. What came from where and when looks like it was written by an 80 year old man.

Alas, the story has gone mostly cold and likely nothing new will come of it. And frankly, it doesn't matter anymore for the most part. BUT getting real facts about who was responsible for the coverup to prevent them in the future (like several Regents that resigned and ran away from it for one). People liked to attack JoePa since he was public and that's what the Regents played on so they could escape themselves. Its called a Patsy. Hell, check Joe's blood, he was probably poisoned too. A dead Patsy is even better.

Again, not claiming Joe is free of this, but I think the true secondary guilt (behind Sandusky, which sounds bad to say...) is at large and escaping to their lovely homes.

sure