A lot of us who have been on TexAgs lately are from SEC schools. The t-shirt fan comments are sort of bizarre to a lot of us outsiders, so I have a few questions:

1) Why are "t shirt fans" a negative thing? it seems to me that having a large number of t shirt fans would be a positive thing insofar as it brings in extra revenue and is generally indicative of success on the football field.

Schools that come to mind as having large numbers of t shirt fans are Ohio State, Bama, Notre Dame, LSU, Texas, and Florida.

2) What is the alternative to being a t shirt fan if you attended a small college like Arkansas State, UTSA, Baylor, or some random junior college? Or what if you didn't go to college at all? In such instances you don't get much of an experience out of cheering for your own school. Additionally, many individuals who never received a college education still enjoy college football. What's wrong with them picking a team to support?

I'm obviously being a bit of a smart ass, but I would appreciate a full explanation. Thanks!

1.) As it is perceived here, T-shirt fans are often the fans who go off and make themselves (and the school they are supporting) look like idiots. They often know little/nothing about a school and their rival's history/traditions, but try to engage/instigate in heated conversation.

I've pretty much noticed a trending 'un-spoken rule' around here that T-shirt fans should be 'seen but not heard'. Not so much that they shouldn't talk at all, but that they should try very hard not to bring any negative attention to themselves especially to rival schools.

Many forum trolls on this site and others like it for other schools tend to be T-shirt fans.. so this has largely contributed to the negative outlook on such followers.

2.)I think this issue boils down to the degree of one's loyalty/connection to their school. Someone who has attended and graduated from the school they cheer for often has a higher sense of entitlement over supporters who did not attend.

So when a T-shirt fan for a rival school (who graduated elsewhere if at all) comes talking trash, alumni will often resort to a 'get on my level' type of attitude.

My problem with sip t-shirt fans isn't their choice of teams to root for, and certainly not some good natured ribbing, either.

The problem lies with the tendency of the average ignorant t-shirt fan to say things like "why do you like A&M? They suck.", or to make a dig on our academic standing, when said t-shirt sip went to Texas State, or the local junior college, or more likely nowhere, when, truth be told, in national rankings for the degrees offered, we are about the same as tu.

And to clarify, I can't recall any instances where one of these ignorant people were wearing anything but burnt orange. I would simply call somebody who supports any other school they didn't attend a fan.

Also, I don't know how it is in SEC states, but we have a common character in Texas who will have attended UT-Tyler or UTSA that loads up on burnt orange crap and omits the "Tyler" or "SA" when telling someone where they went to school, although they are totally seperate universities other than being part of the same system. My best friend is actually a tu grad, and will say upon finding this out "Oh, well I went to the real UT."

A@M had a better decade than the Whorns beginning in the mid 80s. Didn't y'all have a big t-shirt fan following? I know that in Florida the t-shirt fans tend to migrate toward the flavor-of-the-momment. Stay tuned...you're about to see lots of FSU stuff once again.

T-shirt fans that live and die with their chosen schools are OK. This is more prevalent in smaller states. The State of Texas tends to have bandwagon tu fans that will be rooting for A&M soon and these are the fans that Aggies don't care for. If you are a life long fan of a school and stick by that school through the ups and downs, then I don't care if you attended that school or not.

quote:

---

A@M had a better decade than the Whorns beginning in the mid 80s. Didn't y'all have a big t-shirt fan following? I know that in Florida the t-shirt fans tend to migrate toward the flavor-of-the-momment. Stay tuned...you're about to see lots of FSU stuff once again.

---

This is part of the problem.

In states like Arkansas and Tennessee, you essentially only have one choice for BCS conference schools. (I guess in Tennessee you have 2, but I'm going to go out on a limb and guess not many people wake up and decide one day to cheer for Vanderbilt.) Then in Alabama at least, the hatred is so militant that there isn't much in the way of shifting. You're pretty much a bammer or barner. Speaking of that state though, it was a t-shirt fan that poisoned the trees.

So, what you get instead is a mish mash of a bunch of fair-weather ****-heads that talk an unreasonable amount of trash, and then leave when the going gets rough.

Ultimately, college athletics are just unique. High school affiliation is based on where you lived at the time. Pro affiliation is based on where you live or have lived. College is based on where you chose to go, and more importantly where chose you. Because of that there is a lot more pride involved. It's just a different relationship with the team.

And yes, I'll go ahead and say as well, that I have no problem with people who are fans of whatever team. It's just not the same.

[This message has been edited by sshm (edited 8/25/2011 5:58a).]

The point of one or two school per state in SEC country is very well put. I originally was going to mention that but decided to leave it out.

5 BCS conference teams in the State of Texas allows for plenty of 'fair-weathering'.

quote:

---

A@M had a better decade than the Whorns beginning in the mid 80s. Didn't y'all have a big t-shirt fan following?

---

Yes. Yes we did. A&M owned the t-shirt fandom in the 80's. I personally thought it was great and look forward to a return of the A&M t-shirt fan.

I suspect that a lot of the posters who are down on the casual t-shirt fan are just too young to have experienced it.

To echo above i will describe my wife's uncle

"die hard" t.u fan who has never been to austin or seen any t.u game in person. Hes as hillbilly redneck conservative as it gets and if he thought for one second that t.u was full if hippies he would vomit. Then he feels the need to tell me why a&m sucks and drops every aggie joke in the book despite never having gone to college.

Thats your type 1 t.u t shirt fan.

Type 2 is every illegal immigrant in the country wearing burnt orange. I dont mind them because they are not obnoxious.

To compare, i have a friend who is a huge bama fan but he went to a small school in louisiana. He owns all kinds of memoribillia, goes to games regularly, talks about "the bear", and knows the ends and outs of every tradition.

If you want to cheer for a school you didn't go to fine. Be my guest. I really have no problem with it.

What does become a problem, is when I hear trash talk about my university. The university where I spent thousands of dollars, and invested years of my life to. So when some jack*** tshirt fan tells me my school sucks when the most they invested into "their" school was the $20 or so at walmart to buy the shirt, I take offense to it.

Look, if you want to say "the Aggies are going to struggle against my team today because of X,Y, and Z" that's fine. I can take football talk and commentary/analysis. But don't give me crap for attending a school that's playing Texas, when you didn't even go there.

[This message has been edited by byxaggie00 (edited 8/25/2011 6:31a).]

Being a loyal tshirt fan is great. My father has been an A&m fan since my brother and I attended there. I have no problem with these people, but my father would never criticize UT as an institution. How could he? He didn't go to college.

I have a problem with those who like to run A&M down as a university when they themselves have never been to college or went to an inferior one, based on rankings. Hearing a guy that never went to college say, "A&M sucks. I would never go there," gets old when it comes from a guy with no sheepskin.

No one has problem with good, respectful t-shirt fans.

The reasons I hate t shirt fans.

typical T shirt fan:

2000: OU rules! we just won a national championship! I know cause I got this shirt at walmart.

same fan, a few years later

Texas Rules! we just won a national championship! I know cause I got this shirt at walmart.

All the while they talk smack, "so, were you sad you couldn't get into OU after High School?"

It's mostly the academic smack, "dumb Aggies," or hick angles. For someone who went to San Marcos, or didn't go to college at all, to venture into those subjects is just ludicrous, yet, you'd be surprised how often you see it. Hell, some of the media idiots who are constantly blowing the Horns' trumpet and belittling A&M are "t-shirt" sip fans, and engage in this stuff all the time.

One more thing I have a problem with is the media hyping texas as the state school of texas and having their gear EVERYWHERE. Then people think it is their job to root for and defend texas university. Even if they have no ties to the school in any way other than buying the garbage. I was really happy when the Texas Rangers started playing well and made the World Series because all the people that used to buy the burnt orange texas shirts were now buying blue and red texas shirts instead. Keeping money away from those liberals in austin.

Pretty much agree with everyone else. I can respect someone who went to t.u. and can take some good natured ribbing. But to have someone knock on my school, especially the academics, because they bought a sip shirt after they failed out of Southwest Texas State, 0 tolerance there.

I'd also say the disdain for shirt fans is exaggerated on the tough guy Internet. when I meet a sip, I don't immediately ask when they graduated or anything. That only comes up if they're being obnoxious.

90 percent of sec fans are t-shirt fans. This will not go over well with them. They are going to hate atm.

Typical t-shirt fan interaction: (true story)

I am in Texas and am in line buying some Aggie gear for my boys.
t-shirt: Hey what are you buying that aggie crap for?
Me: Excuse me?
t-shirt: Why are you buying that crap? They suck!
me: You do know your sips only won 5 games this year, right? Do you even know your quarterbacks name?
t-shirt: hook'em horns.
my youngest son (8): You guys are the ones who suck! Mack Brown is an idiot!
Me: Alijah calm down. The Bible says not to argue with a fool.
t-shirt: Whatever dude!

Informed sports smack from a t-shirt fan = acceptable.
Uninformed sports smack from a t-shirt fan = unacceptable.
Smack of any form from a t-shirt fan against the actual academic institution = unacceptable.

Probably because we would never be able to match tu's volume of t-shirt fans. If you can't beat it, hate it.

I don't think the majority of SEC fans will automatically hate A&M. There isn't that long history of disdain, first off. And most SEC fans know next to nothing about Texas A&M.

The only schools we have a history with are Arkansas and LSU, and they are largely supportive of the move.

The Gator fans are going to be surprised to find out we are pretty darn close to them in size and academics, endowments, etc. There may a small amount of a negative stereotype about us we have to overcome. But for alot of people we will be starting with a blank slate.

Creating a marketing position for Aggie Athletics and hiring a gal from Alabama to be in charge allows us to shape our public perception going forward.

Also, I think ten years down the road, when tu and A&M have been in separate conferences, the casual t-shirt fan for tu will no longer really care that much about the Aggies.

"If you are a life long fan of a school and stick by that school through the ups and downs, then I don't care if you attended that school or not."

Couldn't agree more.

And I see no problem with belittling someones education/fandom that did not attend a college they support IF they are going to try and belittle the academics of the school I did attend.

turtleeater,

You should have figured out by now that the Aggies only have a problem with one set of t-shirt fans.

I don't care one way or the other. People can pull for whatever team they want. I, on the other hand, will go to my grave with a loyalty to only one university.

True fan = wears the gear and supports the team through ups and downs no matter what.

tshirt fan = goes out and gets gear once a team breaks the top 10 or wins a championship and promptly puts it away as soon as the team sucks.

T-shirt fan = Bandwagon fan

Pass the word.

My take on it, the "tshirts" have been bought and paid for my a marketing department that has done an excellent job.

Remember neither Austin or San Antonio have a pro football team(why do you think their revenues are so large). They have the Longhorns to root for. This niche has been taken up quite nicely for them, and they have convinced a populace that they are "their" team. This brings a lot of the same attitude of NFL teams.

Add into that the State of Texas politics and you have a powder keg of sorts.

I literally fear the day they have the political will to get our funding on the ballot. The masses will vote against us.

I think byxaggie said it best.

I have a friend that we have annual bet on the turkey day game. It started in the mid 80's. He didn't go to Texas - his wife did. He has season tickets and they donate to the school. He stuck with them all through the 80's and 90's, lamented over Macks I and II. He handled the turn around in the last 10 years with grace and giving me an appropriate amount of crap about the football team (I earned it in the 90's). He never talked bad about A&M's academics or anything in general about the school.

If I thought all Texas tshirt fans (or any other schools) were like him, I would say good for them. But I think he is 1 in a thousand - at best.

It is less about whether or not the person went to the university they are cheering for and more of how much of a good/bad sport they are.

I had relatives that ran a farm in West Texas and they rooted for Texas Tech. They went to football games, basketball games, any sport they could as often as they could. They also congradulated my wife and I when A&M won and we did the same with them.

Meanwhile I also had a new inlaw that was a Texas fan. However, he had never been to Austin, or to a game, and skoffed at my Aggie ring even though it was something I had been looking forward to for three years. Meanwhile, he didn't know any traditions (like that Bevo was named after 13-0) and would laugh when I brought up A&M beating tu at any other sport. The last straw was when A&M beat tu 12-7 in 2006, which I attended in Austin. I knew for a fact he was at his family's house watching the loss. The next day was the first time I saw him without a burnt orange shirt and he kept saying that he missed the game and didn't watch it this year.


It seems to be more like who you would play chess with even if they lose. The guy/gal who says "Sneaky checkmate, play again?" or the sore loser who kicks over the table and acts like a three year old.

If 90% of the SEC fans are three year olds, then I would be worried.

I think too many people look at this in a glass half-empty kind of way.

What you guys are failing to see is that the birth of the t-shirt fan talk was due to the fact that Aggies actually have a little more respect from tu grads than a lot of tu fans that did not go to school there.

There is a reason for this. Despite all of the ribbing between the two schools, a good portion of tu grads are actually reasonable, intellegent people. Without fail, the worst tu fans are always people who never attended Texas university.

The t-shirt fan thing is there not because we hate t-shirt fans. Try finding anything in the archives of this board about how much the Nebraska t-shirt fans suck. It won't be there. We just hate tu t-shirt fans.

1) Bandwagon fans universally have no cred. That I follow.

2) Aside from a barb every now and then I think you'll find most SEC don't sit around and critique the quality of education provided by other schools. If you're intelligent it's obvious fairly quickly, and if not it doesn't take long to show.

3) The t-shirt designation sounds a tad odd given a) many of us were fans of a school long before attending and b) almost everyone but Drew Pearson would be a t-shirt fan of the Cowboys.

4) If a guy panhandling wants to talk trash about Tennessee I'm fine with that. I'd like to help the guy if I can, but I'm not particularly concerned with his opinion of the school - or anything else. Maybe he hates my vehicle or clothes too? So what? I don't spend much time trying to impress strangers.

[This message has been edited by murfvol (edited 8/25/2011 8:41a).]

Yea, I have to say that the t-shirt fan thing isn't something I've ever seen referenced in the SEC. It's a bit silly imo. It'd be like saying I can't be a Dolphins fan unless I've lived in Miami...

quote:

---

Why are "t shirt fans" a negative thing? it seems to me that having a large number of t shirt fans would be a positive thing insofar as it brings in extra revenue and is generally indicative of success on the football field.

---

When my in-laws who attended The University of Houston-Victoria and The University of Phoenix make it a point to show up to every family function sporting tu crap and give me s*** about A&M, that's where you lose me with your arguement.

quote:

---

Additionally, many individuals who never received a college education still enjoy college football. What's wrong with them picking a team to support?

---

Nothing. It's called the NFL. Pick one.

Like most everything else that makes up the Aggie psyche, the disdain for "t-shirt fans" is a hate-filled reaction against everything Longhorn.

They'll grow out of it, eventually, if they do in fact join the SEC.

I transferred from Houston to Milwaukee 12 years ago. When I first got here I saw a lot of peope walking around with t.u. gear on which I though was a little strange considering the fact that this state has only one Div. I school and you would think the cheeseheads would be totally loyal to the Badgers like they are to the Packers. Anyway when when I walk behind one of them at a Home Depot or Wal-Mart I start to whistle the first bar of "Texas Fight." At no time has anyone EVER turned around and looked at me. If the roles were reversed and someone behind me in Germantown, WI starts whistling "Recall", I would be breaking the sound barrier turning around to see who that was. I asked one of them one time "Why are you wearing that shirt"? He said "I like the Longhorn logo I think it looks cool". I said "why don't you wear a Badger shirt, aren't you loyal to them since they are the only Div I football school in this state?" He goes "why are you so interested in what I am wearing"? I said because I find it very interesting that in a state that is so fiercely and fanatically loyal to their NFL team that you would foresake the state's only college football team because you like the logo of a school that is 1400 miles away from here and you can't even tell me the name of the town in Texas where that school resides. "YES I CAN... they are in Dallas". I replied "thanks for making my point".

I think interesting correlations can be be made when you take a look at statistics related to college attendance and graduation. For example, the SEC states rank as following in terms of percentage adults (25+) who have earned at least a bachelor's degree:

#25-Florida
#27-Georgia
#40-Tennessee
#42-Alabama
#44-Louisiana
#45-South Carolina
#47-Kentucky
#50-Mississippi
#51-Arkansas

In the above states combined, there are only 8.2 million college graduates combined with over a third of those coming from Florida alone; By comparison Texas has 3.2 million college graduates.

Maybe these figures aren't too surprising, but they do tell a tale regarding the phenomenon of t-shirt fans. Being a college graduate is considered somewhat of a novelty in many of these states, especially in rural areas, and allegiances are forged for different reasons than attendance and graduation. For example, here in Arkansas, the U of A is almost held in a sacred light by many residents. They call it "The Hill", and you can sense a Mecca-like devotion amongst the faithful. Sadly, too many of the young people here seem to think of it as an unattainable dream to be a part of that experience.

*stats from 2003 Census data

[This message has been edited by Little Rock Ag (edited 8/25/2011 9:04a).]

As long as no one has a superiority complex I'm fine. I was just concerned too many different types of fans were being hit with the same label.

Give bandwagon fans a hard time all you want, laugh at the antics of the less bright overly earnest die-hard fan (though be nice to him), but say everyone who isn't in "x" club is worthy of dersion or not legitimate and I've got a problem.

Can the season start now so we can actually talk football?



[This message has been edited by murfvol (edited 8/25/2011 9:35a).]