Football smack from a t-shirt fan is expected. We tend to get academic smack from tu t-shirt fans. Big difference.

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there will be plenty of T-shirt fans and Ags will be loving it.

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Yep, but if any of our A&M tshirt fans start denegrating t.u. for anything other than a crappy football team, I will politely reprimand them.

I also cannot stand it when people write "Failor" or "Whorns" or any sort of supposed juvenile insult - it really makes it hard to take your point seriously.

I don't think t-shirt fan has anything to do with what school you attended and/or graduated from. It all has to do with what kind of FAN you are.

For instance my former workplace in Austin, Texas had mostly (around 900ish employees) TU grads in engineering areas. I was one of few Former students from A&M although I have not graduated yet.

Over a period of 4 years while I was working there (2005-2009) I would wear A&M colors / Shirt etc Every Friday/weekend and every Monday (sometimes all week long) regardless of how A&M performed. If A&M did really poor I made sure to wear a big aTm on my chest.

The T-shirt fans however you could clearly see every week whether they were tex-exs or not. They would show up on friday and talk smack wear that ugly color etc... Then come Monday IF t.u. won then you would see a sea of puke all over. If t.u. lost you would see maybe a handful of puke.

So to me what defines a t-shirt fan is not whether or not you attended or graduated or even how much you know about a school but how you react upon poor performance by your "team".

A FAN supports his/her team at all times regardless of what is going on.

A T-shirt FAN only supports the team during the good times.

UA01Duke05 as an Aggie that was born and raised in the south I need to point our something you are missing.

I know SEC T-Shirt fans. My whole family on my dad's side is Bama T-Shirt fans (even though my granddad went to AU). My mom's side is all LSU T-Shirt fans.

And I can say with certainty that SEC T-Shirt fans are NOTHING like what Aggies refer to when the mention T-Shirt fans.

When a SEC fan talks smack, it is usually at some superficial level. It is either harping on stereotypes such as "smack about people in Oxford not being able to read" or it is based on on-field performance. Underneath the smack talk is competitiveness and pride. Nothing wrong with that.

When Aggies complain about T-Shirt fans as you can tell we are not talking about my Bama relatives. We are very specifically complaining about Texas T-Shirt fans. Why?

Because when a tu T-Shirt fan talks smack, most of the time is is so support a 100 year old undercurrent in the state that "Aggies are an inferior lot." Many tu T-Shirt fans go beyond stereotypes and bash things like how people died in bonfire -"dumb Aggies can't build a fire"- or they rub in the fact that we will forever be considered inferior to Texas in their minds- "dumb Aggies should just give up, Texas always has been and always will be best."

There is nothing good natured there, nothing competitive. Instead the comments are meant to be belittling and derogatory. What tu T-Shirt fans are really saying is "I don't respect your school or the fact that it represents my state what-so-ever."

Once we are in the SEC we aren't going to start hating T-Shirt LSU fans for telling Aggie jokes. We have hated and will continue to hate the average tu T-Shirt fan that is trying to assert that their favorite team is the only legitimate representation of the state in their opinion. In fact as the "we are running from Texas" narrative builds I imagine it will get much worse.

As far as why we are big on the "did you even attend that school" thing with Texas fans is that most REAL tu grads don't have this bad attitude. Most respect A&M as a decent school because they are intelligent people. Texas's T-Shirt legions on-the-other-hand love to reveal in the Texas superiority complex (I would argue because they have little in their life that would allow them to feel superior to anyone) when dealing with Aggies. So we call them out to shut them down and remind them that while Texas has beaten us more than not for 100 years, they personally have no reason to claim that to feel better about their crappy lives.

[This message has been edited by Cardboardboxer (edited 8/25/2011 11:56a).]

Cardboard Boxer,

I understand what you're saying, the part that I'm having a hard time understanding is why actually having a degree from Texas makes it ok or more acceptable to call Ags idiots or belittle aTm. If anything I would give the t shirt fans a pass and hold the actual UT grads to a higher standard.

I do understand the Texas hatred in general though. It wasn't so long ago that we were in your shoes. Twenty years later I still hate Texas as irrationally as you do. Trust me, joining the SEC won't change that.

[This message has been edited by UA01Duke05 (edited 8/25/2011 11:55a).]

As I said in my above edit, actual Texas fans don't really harp on the things we hate. Most are intelligent enough to recognize A&M is a good school.

It is the fans who have never even considered going to college that believe (because someone told them) that all Aggies are stupid and we call them out to show them that they have no claim to this false belief.

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why actually having a degree from Texas makes it ok or more acceptable to call Ags idiots or belittle aTm.

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I'm not sure you read the thread. Almost every post I've seen referencing actual grads has been that actual grads don't act this way. Goodnatured ribbing? Sure bring it on! Personal attacks like "what, you weren't smart enough to get in to OU?" wtf?

aggies are the only people i have ever seen that have such a big problem with t-shirt fans. pretty much every other fanbase realizes that its actually a good thing. if texas didnt have so many "t-shirt" fans then it wouldnt be an issue.

basically if texas does it, its bad. if the tide turns and aggies have more "tshirt fans" its good.

ezed - read the thread before you post. Thanks.

goofy - i have been on here and seen the daily tshirt fan whining posts for years now. i know exactly what people on here think about tshirt fans. its dumb

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pretty much every other fanbase realizes that its actually a good thing.

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It IS a good thing. Aggies realize this just as well as anyone else. We had our share of them in the 90s. Jackass fans are the ones we hate and ANY graduate of ANY university should hate fans who represent their school that way.

Did you even read the thread?

i did read the thread and i still think it stupid. there are bad apples in every fanbase. it happens. tshirt or not who cares.

i also hear strange rationalizations on this site as to why people are not tshirt fans... "well my uncle was an aggie fan and took me to games as a kid, i didnt go to college but i have always been an aggie so i am not a tshirt fan" and then they follow that with "sips are dumb"

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there are bad apples in every fanbase. it happens. tshirt or not who cares.

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you're missing the point. tshirt fans ARE the bad apples. Everyone else are just "fans."

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you're missing the point. tshirt fans ARE the bad apples. Everyone else are just "fans."

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i disagree, do you remember the tech student section shoving a goal post up your ass. were they just fans. was that ok because they were students?


[This message has been edited by ezed (edited 8/25/2011 12:32p).]

I think the Aggies have covered the issues involved here pretty well.

- T-shirt fans are by far the most obnoxious
- Graduates or people that at least attended one of the universities in Texas tend to have respect for one another and results in good natured ribbing
- T-shirt fans are tolerable if they stick to issues of sports, but become unbearable if they chart a course for ignorance and begin talking smack outside of sports
- 90% of t-shirt fans in the state of Texas are t.u. fans. This just makes the above worse from our perspective
- A&M recognizes the value of t-shirt fans in terms of support, revenue and future students. How can anyone look at t.u. and not recognize what it has done for them?

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I understand what you're saying, the part that I'm having a hard time understanding is why actually having a degree from Texas makes it ok or more acceptable to call Ags idiots or belittle aTm.

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Think of it this way...in HS, you worked and saved up and finally bought yourself a Dodge truck. You get to school the next morning, and somebody who just got off the bus starts talking about how much Dodges suck and how much better Chevy is. You laugh and walk away, and each morning he constantly tells you how much your truck sucks, all the while, thumbing it on the yellow limo.

Part of it as I can tell is that Aggies have all the military history and other very particular traditions. Those who have actually attended have been part of something that can be quite different from other institutions.

Therefore, there's a bit of an inside-vs-outside psychological interchange going on. People who say they're A&M fans but have never gone here are certainly welcome, but they're somehow different. It is, I would assume, related to the same set of emotional differences between dealing with someone with whom you went to battle versus someone with whom you didn't.

I love seeing people in Aggie gear. It's more money for the school and more general notoriety in the public eye. That's a good thing. I want us to have lots, and lots of t-shirt fans. Having said that, however, it's difficult to approach them with the same affection that I would someone who shared this school with me for four to five years.

T-shirt fans fall away, while we bleed and die as Aggies.

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UA01Duke05 as an Aggie that was born and raised in the south I need to point our something you are missing.

I know SEC T-Shirt fans. My whole family on my dad's side is Bama T-Shirt fans (even though my granddad went to AU). My mom's side is all LSU T-Shirt fans.

And I can say with certainty that SEC T-Shirt fans are NOTHING like what Aggies refer to when the mention T-Shirt fans.

When a SEC fan talks smack, it is usually at some superficial level. It is either harping on stereotypes such as "smack about people in Oxford not being able to read" or it is based on on-field performance. Underneath the smack talk is competitiveness and pride. Nothing wrong with that.

When Aggies complain about T-Shirt fans as you can tell we are not talking about my Bama relatives. We are very specifically complaining about Texas T-Shirt fans. Why?

Because when a tu T-Shirt fan talks smack, most of the time is is so support a 100 year old undercurrent in the state that "Aggies are an inferior lot." Many tu T-Shirt fans go beyond stereotypes and bash things like how people died in bonfire -"dumb Aggies can't build a fire"- or they rub in the fact that we will forever be considered inferior to Texas in their minds- "dumb Aggies should just give up, Texas always has been and always will be best."

There is nothing good natured there, nothing competitive. Instead the comments are meant to be belittling and derogatory. What tu T-Shirt fans are really saying is "I don't respect your school or the fact that it represents my state what-so-ever."

Once we are in the SEC we aren't going to start hating T-Shirt LSU fans for telling Aggie jokes. We have hated and will continue to hate the average tu T-Shirt fan that is trying to assert that their favorite team is the only legitimate representation of the state in their opinion. In fact as the "we are running from Texas" narrative builds I imagine it will get much worse.

As far as why we are big on the "did you even attend that school" thing with Texas fans is that most REAL tu grads don't have this bad attitude. Most respect A&M as a decent school because they are intelligent people. Texas's T-Shirt legions on-the-other-hand love to reveal in the Texas superiority complex (I would argue because they have little in their life that would allow them to feel superior to anyone) when dealing with Aggies. So we call them out to shut them down and remind them that while Texas has beaten us more than not for 100 years, they personally have no reason to claim that to feel better about their crappy lives.

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Spot on. Thread over. If you need examples, you've been living under a rock since around 2004-2005.

I'm an Arkansas fan - Went to a community college while still in high school, then went to Astate(Closer to home and my work). If your a football fan in the state of Arkansas then most likely you are a Razorback fan.

Just because I didn't attend UofA doesn't mean I don't hold season tickets or donate money to the University. With all that in mind sounds like I'm still considered a "t-shirt fan" to some of you Ags.

With that in mind a simple :.|.. will do.

Duke05

It's all semantics. In these parts a bandwagon fan is a t-shirt fan.

Bandwagon - jump on, jump off
T-shirt - put it on, take it off

A fan is someone that stays with there team regardless of the team on field success.

Fan - Stays on the wagon with their maroon shirt on.

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I didn't attend UofA doesn't mean I don't hold season tickets or donate money to the University.

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Do you donate money to Arkansas State?

That's what is kind of strange to me. Just being honest. These guys that don't go to the school but give them money to be in the club don't make sense to me. It just seems like setting your self up to have to give some very awkward answers at banquets when asked about classes, profs, or things you did while attending that university. I'm not trying to sound mean, but I really just don't understand it.

I think a fair definition of t-shirt fan to most Aggies would simply be 'someone who in my/our opinion doesn't have the right to knock our University'.

In other words the term mostly gets used if someone is stepping out of line.

The problem, as far as the SEC goes, is that 't-shirt fan' to a large portion of the SEC means something different.

It's a knock on their fandom, which isn't determined by whether or not you attended but rather the time and money you devote to your chosen school's team(s).

It's just different mindsets.

Aggies can rightfully claim they don't need the condescension of t-shirt fans. And SEC fans can rightfully claim they don't need the condescension of the term 't-shirt' fan.

I went to AState for a education not for fun.

The place sucks.

I have more of a connection to UofA than to Astate. That easy enough?

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The Gator fans are going to be surprised to find out we are pretty darn close to them in size and academics, endowments, etc. There may a small amount of a negative stereotype about us we have to overcome.

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What negative stereotype? In terms of mission in service to the state, A&M = UF.



[This message has been edited by AgEng98 (edited 8/25/2011 7:50p).]

Bama fan Harvey Updyke is a good example of general disdain for t-shirt fans.

Here he's dressed for cooler weather:



For any of you who hasn't read about him, here's a taste:

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2011/04/harvey_updyke_story.html

A long as public money (taxes) are funding an institution, shouldn't a fan be able to root for anyone that they wish to? Like it or not, many schools would not be in existence without their $$.But that doesn't give anyone an excuse to act like trash.

great thread. not really.

who is ready to play sum dagum football?

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I'm an Arkansas fan - Went to a community college while still in high school, then went to Astate(Closer to home and my work). If your a football fan in the state of Arkansas then most likely you are a Razorback fan.

Just because I didn't attend UofA doesn't mean I don't hold season tickets or donate money to the University. With all that in mind sounds like I'm still considered a "t-shirt fan" to some of you Ags.

With that in mind a simple :.|.. will do.

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And if you start talking down to a LSU, Alabama, etc grad and telling them how much their school sucks and how much better Arkansas is than their alma mater, then you would be a t-shirt fan. You didn't attend Arkansas and do not have any skin in the game. You would be Arkansas' equvalent to a Texas State grad.

I think it's different than most SEC fans will understand. If you live in Alabama you are born an Alabama or Auburn fan. Most SEC states have one or two options. It's probably split about even.

In Texas, you have t.u, TAMU, Baylor, TTU, TCU, and then even Rice, SMU, etc

The t.u marketing department won the fight and the vast majority of lay people choose to follow t.u. for whatever reason. Probably because it's the popular/fad option. Whatever, you can get over it, but it can be a regular thing to get crap in a grocery line, pumping gas, whatever, and aggies tend to be a main target.

The best comparison: Your average t shirt t.u fan is like any ****** wearing a yankees hat. They bought it because it's popular and they claim they are fans. You go up to the guy and ask him to name 3 starters and they stop after Derek Jeter and then tell you your team sucks.

I'm an Ag tshirt fan and have been since 1985. My problem with tshirt tu fans is most of them mow my yards and have never played football.

As a lifelong Bama fan, A&M alum, and STH at both schools I would offer these observations:

1 - most SEC states do not have an NFL team to root for, so it is natural for citizens of the state to be fans of the State U.
2 - most SEC states only have one, or two, major programs at a flagship U (AL and Miss have 2 SC if you want to count SC and Clemson, an SEC school in ACC clothing LSU and Tenn are essentially solo, UGA too though Ga. tech does exist).  As such, combined with #1, again logical for folks to choose a team and be a fan of said team.  Candy and Memphis don't take anything from UT.  La. has a bunch of directional schools and Tulane and La. Tech, again no impact on LSU, etc., etc.
3 - most SEC t-shirt fans are NOT what A&M fans consider a true t-shirt fan.  Speaking from my Bama experience, such fans are lifelong fans, maybe even multiple generations of the family, and are fans in good times and in bad.  They can tell you who the coach was 20 years ago, they know more about the team than just the last name of the QB, etc.

Contrast this with the State of Texas: 2 NFL teams, 2 flagship U football teams, 2 other current BCS teams, 3 other major programs that at one time or another have been good (SMU, UH, TCU), Rice, then I think 3 or 4 Div 1AA programs, not to mention D2 teams.

"T-Shirt fans" in Texas are bandwagoners, coat-tail riders, they only support the team in good times, abandon  them at the first sign of trouble, have never been to a game,  don't know anything about the team other than maybe the name of the coach and QB, get their gear solely at Wal-Mart, could not tell you the last time the school won a conference title before their current run of good form, could not tell you who the previous coach was much less 20 years ago, etc., etc., etc.

In Texas there is no reason to be a t-shirt fan and thus our disdain for such.  I think most SEC t-shirt fans are not the same and my guess is Aggies will not have a problem with them.

Easy to spot a horn t-shirt fan, not so much for LSU, Bama, Ark, UGA, etc.

The thing with SEC "t-shirt" fans is that they grew up rooting for their team. Their grandfather rooted for them, their father rooted for them, their brothers rooted for them. An SEC fan was rooting for their team at the age of 6 or 7 or whenever. They were rooting for them long before they got to high school, much less college. College football in the southeast is a part of the social makeup of a lot of the people's lives.

That is what the Aggie folks should realize. People here don't root for a college football team because they went to school there, they root for them because they have been rooting for them all of their life.

[This message has been edited by Bamatab (edited 8/25/2011 8:44p).]

Bama, we do realize it. And i think once we come to the sec you will rarely see t shirt fan mentioned on this board unless it is in reference to t.u. Sec t shirt fans do not equal t.u t shirt fans. And its not even close

EOT

It is just hard to explain.

I grew up on SEC, but lived in texas because of my parents. The vols were the pro team to my patents who liked the cowboys because they were the closest pro team.

However, the Vols were the tshirt team for the whole family, and even the ones that didn't go to school at Tennessee.

Here in texas, you see a different type of fan. The sip fans are fickle and different. This same difference is part of the reason I think they'd be terrible for the SEC if they were to want in. They'd be great for cash, but they are just so different. Think USC bandwagon fans I guess.

*I just read Jarrin' Jay's post.. that is some great insight to how I feel and what makes it different.

[This message has been edited by Signel (edited 8/25/2011 9:01p).]