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Summary of whats wrong with the program...Little long.

24,345 Views | 225 Replies | Last: 16 yr ago by Furious
TheFirebird
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nwhoustonag:

Please tell me how many more games we will win if we have cheerleaders on the sidelines and stop putting money in the hands of the athletic department.

You want to know a fanbase that "demands accounatibility" in the form of not showing up to games and has cheerleaders?

SMU, North Texas.......
gunan01
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quote:
yes it is possible to turn around a program in a very short time. It happens, but for every coach you listed there, there are a dozen other coaches who don't. Quick turn arounds are not the norm they are the exception
This is exactly the problem with the massive groupthink that suggests we should wait and "build the program" etc. We have been doing that for over a decade!!! And your quote "Quick turn arounds are not the norm they are the exception" doesn't apply to my point. My point is that certain coaches have IT, and you know it right away. In this decade, winning the national championship within 4 years is the RULE, not the exception. Coach Sherman is a nice man, but he does not have IT.

quote:
Now, to be truly fair, please post ALL coaching changes at DI schools for the time periods covered. I think you will find that the Carrolls, Meyers, and Stoops are exceptions rather than the rule.

In the instant gratification society of today I think alot of people have failed to remember that it can take three, sometimes even four years to take a team from the basement to the top.
Oh brother, you mediocrity-loving Aggie brothers and sisters of mine just don't get it. My point is that we NEED to keep up the hiring and firing of coaches every 2-3 years (especially when there are no signs of improvement) until we find the coach that has IT. Waiting four years is reasonable if there are signs of improvement. Getting blown out in every game we play outside of Kyle Field by teams not in the top 25 is not showing signs of improvement. Our administration does not owe anything to ANYONE such as Fran or Sherm. They should not feel obligated to keep a failing coach around forever....
AggieSouth06
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I agree on all points.


I would like to point out that #1 is compounded by the fact that we are in Texas, where the "my state can kick your state's ass" mentality has been around since we joined the Union. Texas is generally hated across the country.

Longhorn and Tech fans are just as hardcore as we are, they just don't catch as much flack because it's more acceptable to be braggadocios when you are successful.
TempleAg97
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If you haven't noticed, Jackie Sherril works for M&W now. Ask him if he agrees with number one? Better yet, I wish you could ask him in person so he could rip you a new one.
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FHUAggie
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quote:
In fact, good coaches and winning and placement in the NFL made A&M a good place to play. If/when we make a good coaching hire, they will again.

What we really have at A&M is a fanbase that is delusional to the point that they think they have any sort of control over making the team a good team.


Post of the Year, my friends.

And I'm as big an Aggie fan as they come.

[This message has been edited by FHUAggie (edited 10/19/2009 11:56a).]
Huktaz04
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Arguments should be weighted by popularity. Vision 2020, indeed!
AggieSouth06
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The agreement with this post is directly related to the age of the receiver.

Old Ags are unwilling or unable to accept that this place is undergoing an overhaul. That is their prerogative. I don't fault them for that. People have every right to be nostalgic and hold on to the past.

But guess what, guys? It's happening.
TAMU24
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Sorry...but personally I believe we need cheerleaders. How can anyone honestly argue against this?
ArmyDoc
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Gunan,

You think it is a good idea to continue to hire and fire every 2-3 years until we find the next Meyer or Saban? You sir just revealed your idiocy. It is a horrible idea to change personel and schemes every 3 years.

Actually, I'm going to stop there. Obviously someone dense enough to equate giving someone time to build a program with "accepting mediocrity" is not worth arguing with. Give me one example of a program that changed coaches every 3 years and was subsequently successful.
Zen Guerilla
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quote:
The OP is full of crap.... we could dress up our University to look just like a more traditional "big high school" type environment like tu and OU and it wouldn't change a thing.


Yea nothing screams "big high school" like Texas and OU. Idiotic.
texasred08
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The 'peace of mind' is a good thing. We don't have to have our identity 100% wrapped in our football program. There was plenty of great years with the exact same traditions. Like it or not, the 3 national championships reflect a commitment to excellence. im confident it will eventually spill over back to football. BUT even were not to, I would NEVER change the traditions out of respect for the many aggies who gave their lives for greater and more profound ideals than football.
Citizen Reign
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quote:
We all know that A&M is a great place for an education but I have Notre Dame friends, OU friends etc. that are just as loyal to their school as we.


bingo!

A&M doesn't have a monopoly on loyalty and pride. There are plenty of schools that have as much or more.
TAMU24
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Dogs are also extremely loyal...but every once in a while they piss on the carpet because they are mad about something.
Ernest Tucker
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To OP and everyone who feels this way on #1. Your misguided and here is why: you knew what you were getting into when you went to A&M. Sorry, but it's true. There are plenty of other schools that fit what you wanted and I feel bad for you because you decided to spend 4 years of what are supposed to be the best days in your youth at a place that you just didn't research very well. Do you know why there are different restaurants out there? because people enjoy variety. I don't know about you, but I cannot stand "suburbia hell" where you have all the same chain restaurants. I do not want to see A&M become like every other university. From a marketing perspective it is good to differentiate yourself! Why try to be UT when UT will always be better than us at being UT. Going to Fishcamp was special and my friends that went to other universities wished they had something like that when we were all excited to go to college and they stayed home for that week because thier school did not have something like that. Now don't get me wrong, an arrogant attitude is just setting yourself up to be humbled, and IMO there is no reason for it, it is rudeness. but our traditions and being arrogant are not mutually exclusive. It is as if you are trying to reason that we have no right to be proud of our culture as Aggies. You are probably the same type of a*shat that says we should be ashamed to be Americans because of past wrongs and our culture as American's is arrogant while all the other cultures of the world are so "colorful". Dude, fact is, if you were so ashamed of A&M you could have gone somewhere else. Grow some nuts and be confident of where you planted your roots, not arrogant, confident. Seems like you are confusing real Aggies with T-shirt longhorn fans bud.
obscureag
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The agreement with this post is directly related to the age of the receiver.

Old Ags are unwilling or unable to accept that this place is undergoing an overhaul. That is their prerogative. I don't fault them for that. People have every right to be nostalgic and hold on to the past.

But guess what, guys? It's happening.
_______________________________________________

We were saying the same thing when I graduated in '96. Yep, A&M changes (albeit slowly)with time. The problem is that you just haven't been able to witness any good Aggie football in your generation. That doesn't mean our traditions are the problem. Hell, USC was down for 15 years. LSU was irrelevant for at least that long. And to the OP, you can say the 80s and 90s were our only good decades until you are blue in the face, but your opinions are based on ignorance of the facts. It is worth noting (should you actually read the information) that our three worst decades were - in order - the 1890s, this one, and the 1960s (we get credit for a conference championship, a major bowl appearance, and a major bowl victory, thereby ranking us ahead of where we are this decade, despite the fact that we have a slightly better winning percentage this decade). So yes, we're worse than at any time in our programs's history since the 1890s, but our traditions are the problem only now. That's because we didn't have any stoners and Democrats in the state or at A&M in the 80s and 90s (insert sarcasm for those without a sense of such things). Only in the last ten years have people began to think A&M is a little strange. Brilliant analysis. Now we take back what we said about you not knowing anything about football.
Die Hard
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The OP is right on all points.

The biggest problem of all is that we don't demand performance of our football program.
TAMU24
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Thank you Die Hard...and demanding excellence does not make you a bad fan or Aggie.
olarmy69
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We need cheerleaders and we will win games. It's that simple. Wow
Citizen Reign
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quote:
As far as "at least"....all I have to do is say that it's true. The degree on my wall is worth far more to me, as a person, than the football team's record this year or any year. I imagine that Texas Tech's 11-2 record looks mighty impressive on that resume.....


Hate to burst your bubble, but more often than not, people are hired for who they are and not what university they attended. Ags do seem to hire Ags though, even if they aren't the best candidate for the job.

I grew up in the Amarillo and many of my HS friends attended tech. They are ALL doing very well for themselves. So don't fool yourself, the work that a student puts in is what determines the relevance of the degree.
E-3Ag
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TheFirebird--please, please, please continue to post! You couldn't be more right. Thanks.

OP--please! I know I am probably biting off on troll drivel but...REALLY? Others have refuted your statements but this I can't get over--"3) Incestuous history of hiring coaches. This is somewhat back to the big cigar issue but we felt deserves its own topic. We seem to be the only University that goes out of its way hire and overpay coaches formerly associated with the program as long as they know not to walk on the MSC grass." Can you please tell me what association ,Emory Bellard had with A&M? Sherrill? Fran? heck, even Saint Bryant didn't have anything to do w/A&M. Tom Wilson took over when Bellard left quickly. He was a competent asst that knew the players (didn't work out). Stallings? Yeah, he was a junction boy but he was also a darn good coach that Oh by the way won a National Championship (even if it was for the wrong school). Slocum? He was a brilliant Def Coord that Knew the players, loved the school and could fill in without missing a beat when Jackie blew it (and nearly got us the death penalty). Slocum was such a sorry coach that he was considered for a couple of pro teams. Quit trying to "spin" things when things get tough. Some of you (and I find this hard to say to truly believe you are Ags) so-called Aggies make me want to puke.

BTW--I guess Bama didn't hire Stallings or Shula because of their association with the school. Rodriguez and WVU? Weiss--Notre Dame ring a bell? Neuheisel>UCLA? FSU and their asistant? John Blake at OU? Pellini/Nebraska? Gundy--OSU? Is that argument sounding stupid yet? How about Snyder--K-State (Hell they went back to their old coach)? Solich/Nebraska? Wannstedt--Pittsburgh? I could go on and on (which I may already have) BUT A&M is the only school that has an "Incestuous history of hiring coaches."... Right...
TAMU24
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We do need cheerleaders...sorry...we do.
sleepybeagle
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quote:
It's nice to see how many people agree with me ...and even more so supportive to see all of the replies such as, "you don't know anything about football."..."The OP is full of crap, etc."

...I'm sorry you don't agree but then again you're part of the problem. Hell, you're probably on your third maroon tahoe and would give your first born to sniff the sweatband in Bear Bryant's 1956 fedora.



I laughed - so calling people maroon tahoe sweatband sniffers is considered a good argument?

Go back and read CapCityAg89’s comments on the 1st page. He’s 100% correct.
Mowdy Ag
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Our traditions are to blame for our won-loss record?

...sounds like something Al Gore would dream up.

Go Firebird.

MA
AgDotCom
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Anyone who agrees with #1 is damn near out of their mind.

While success in the 80's and 90's don't make a program, we never get to this level if #1 is an issue. We don't even get close.

I agree with much of #2 and #3. But #1....not even in the same solar system.
pagerman @ work
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quote:
1) Our biggest problem as a University is our University. Beginning at Fish Camp we drill this “holier than thou” mentality into our students who then somehow blindly expect that things are great or things will miraculously get better. Why? Because we’re Aggies. This devalues accountability by strengthening a “us against the world” perspective. In other words, it’s better to whoop in public, drive maroon SUV’s, teach your 2 year old the War Hymn, etc. even if it means embracing the status quo (which is a football doormat). In other words, most Ags have peace of mind and will just keep on waving their towels as long we continue to honor the big cigars and don’t change the traditions.

The notion that someone that attended Texas A&M University would think or agree with the above statement is sad (much less do so in public). If all you got from attending Texas A&M was a sheepskin, then I can understand thinking this way. Besides the fact that it is illogical, it displays a fundamental lack of understanding of the uniqueness of being an Aggie.

It is correct to note that driving maroon SUV's and teaching your 2 year old the War Hymn is not the sum total of "Aggieness". These are merely outward indications of the pride and love we have for our school. Supporting the football team is the same thing. A&M is a university with a football team, and not the other way around.

The traditions of the school are the things that make A&M unique. An education can be aquired from many fine schools throughout the country and state. An Aggie education, however, provides more than the classroom experience. It is also the sense of duty to, love of and respect for our country, state and school, and a willingness to sacrifice for those things. The traditions also seek to honor those that came before us and passed on those things to us. If fish camp is simply telling incoming fish that mere acceptance into A&M makes them special, then it is doing a disservice. I doubt, however, that this is the case.

I am sorry that you are upset with the rest of us lemming-like Aggies that haven't yet had the epiphanous moment of great religiosity to understand that the very thing that keeps the Aggies from football greatness is our own Aggieness. I suppose I will have to leave the pitching of fits and the forming of internet lynch mobs to the enlightened ones that understand that we are a cheerleading squad away from football greatness, as I am too busy teaching my 4 year old the war hymn (that, and trying to teach her a sense of perspective and emotional balance so that every time, oh I don't know, say time runs out on the football team it doesn't ruin her week).

[This message has been edited by pagerman @ work (edited 10/19/2009 12:38p).]
AgDotCom
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quote:
We seem to think every coach who has a little success should be treated like Paterno or Bowden. It's laughable.

We fired our all time winningest coach. Exactly how does this equate to the Bowden / Paterno "treatment"?
sleepybeagle
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[This message has been edited by sleepybeagle (edited 10/19/2009 12:40p).]
halfastros81
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IMO, the reasons the OP and neighbors gave are largely a non-factor although there certainly is some truth to the point that the old Big Money donors have far too much influence on hiring and firing of football coaches at A&M. Why you'd do a seven yr contract for a relatively unproven program leader, at the college level anyway, is also puzzling for sure.

Why did OU and tu have so much trouble getting their football programs rited in the 80's and 90's. Because they had ineffective program leadership, that's why. (Gibbs, Schnellenberger, Blake at OU before Stoops and McWilliams, Mackovic at tu before Mack Brown) How did they fix it? By hiring effective leadership.

If it were primarily cultural, as the OP and his neighbors seem to suggest, then why does A&M have success in other athletic arenas (Golf, track, basketball for recent examples).. and why do various and sundry college football programs rise and fall cyclically in seemingly endless fashion (examples Southern Cal, Alabama, Miami Fla, LSU, etc, etc). The cultures of the schools don't change that much over time , but the leadership does.

$9MM says that Sherman is going to get his fair chance to sink or swim but if he sinks, Bill Byrne (or whoever the AD is at the time) needs to be the primary decision maker on the next HFC hire. That was not the case with Fran and I don't believe it was the case with Sherman either.

[This message has been edited by halfastros81 (edited 10/19/2009 12:49p).]
rke82
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On #1. Traditions and the Aggie culture on the peripheral of the football program have no direct correlation to winning or losing. Although I am disappointed in the KSU loss, I am in no way embarrassed to be an Aggie and all that stands for. Our traditions make us unique and were highlighted during the Sherrill/Slocum years only because we were winning. Prior to that, nobody gave a rat’s a** what we did at A&M. The traditions themselves did not build winning programs, they only supported it. And I whoop in public, proudly display my Former Association of Students decal and wear maroon as often as is socially acceptable. My Michigan and Florida loving friends find their one Aggie and all things Texas A & M interesting and unique. I haven’t been in TX for a while. Maybe it’s tougher with sips, bears and Raiders everywhere.

On #2. I don’t think it’s delusional to expect a competitive football program given what the staff has said in press conferences. But reality is a real b****! And we ARE young. KSU was unfriendly, cold, quiet and a long way from home. Some kids buckled under that situation, who knows why. KSU was on the coaches and players, not delusional Aggies. And based on reading TexAgs for the past year, the vast majority of poster had no illusion that we would be better than 6-6 or 5-7. The silver lining in this giant gray cloud is that all of them (coaches and players) are used to winning from wherever they came from prior to being on the Aggie sideline. If an implosion is what it takes to bring them all back to reality, then so be it. I expect the team to fix whatever the problem is. I don’t expect world beaters at this point, but they should be competitive.

On #3. If I were Sherman, I would have asked for a long contract too. What coach, unless he’s at a much smaller college or HS, would have wanted to step into the cluster**** that was our football program? Our newly chosen DC bolted for a seemingly better gig and Sherman had to scramble to find somebody else to fill the bill. Believe me, if we fire Sherman prematurely, we will wander in the desert searching for a coach that wants to make a name for himself at A & M. And if we found somebody, he would be a fool not to ask for as many years and dollars he would deem necessary to build a program from scratch. Like it or not, we have Sherman for a few more years. I’m patient.
mhayden_original
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While having cheerleaders has no real impact on the success or failures of our football program, it's a real easy test question to see who is holding onto the past way too much.

Though I will say, if I'm a stud high school athlete watching a national broadcast of Texas A&M vs Miami and I see this one one sideline:





and this on the other:





it's not hard to see which school I might have a bit more fun at.


By the way... Army, Air Force, Navy and Virginia Tech all have female cheerleaders.
TAMU24
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LMAO...nice...
AGSPORTSFAN07
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quote:
1) Our biggest problem as a University is our University. Beginning at Fish Camp we drill this “holier than thou” mentality into our students who then somehow blindly expect that things are great or things will miraculously get better. Why? Because we’re Aggies. This devalues accountability by strengthening a “us against the world” perspective. In other words, it’s better to whoop in public, drive maroon SUV’s, teach your 2 year old the War Hymn, etc. even if it means embracing the status quo (which is a football doormat). In other words, most Ags have peace of mind and will just keep on waving their towels as long we continue to honor the big cigars and don’t change the traditions.



LOL. Yup. no one else does this do they....













Nope....we're the only ones.

[This message has been edited by AGSPORTSFAN07 (edited 10/19/2009 1:01p).]
Ernest Tucker
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I do agree that it should not be considered taboo to consider cheerleaders, but this would be in addition to yell leaders. There is no way the 12th man would be as loud and coordinated as they are during yells without the yell leaders. If not cheerleaders then we need an equivelant to florida state cowgirls on the 1st row... at least.

[This message has been edited by brd79 (edited 10/19/2009 1:03p).]
 
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