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DMN article about Bonfire

6,539 Views | 112 Replies | Last: 15 yr ago by AggBock
txaggies07
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Off Campus Bonfire has been going well for a few years now. In my opinion, they have fixed a few of the problems and that would translate into an on-campus bonfire. I was there from 03-07 and worked on 2 off-campus bonfires.

As for sexism in what I experienced, there were girls at cut working right with us (Moore hall). The girls were treated just like the guys, which means they were subject to random jokes just like I was.

As for racism, it was no worse than any group of guys hanging out. Everyone got ribbed in some way or another. It was all in good fun and thickens your skin a bit.
getme
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It's an opinion piece and well we all know what opinions are like...

CHEEZE WHIZ! Opinions are like CHEEZE WHIZ, no matter how much you can pile on a cracker, uh hmm...DAMN IT, I was thinking about @ssholes.
AGSWON
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If Bonfire returns to campus, I guarantee it will be attended by more people than ever in its storied history!! Bank on it. The traditions of this school is the glue which holds us together and sets us a part from the others.

May it burn again on campus.
aggiese03
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This article is spot on in many ways, like it or not.
AGSPORTSFAN07
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Double Bubble must have written that article. And it's very anti-Aggie!!!!
BigAggie06
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Like I posted on the article comments section ... Despite what may or may have not occured at previous bonfires (class of '06 here so no first hand experience) why can't bonfire come back and evolve?

The writer said it himself that the university is now one of openess and diversity ... well ... if open and diverse students are bringing back the tradition wouldn't it follow that it would be a more open and diverse tradition?

I am not in any way saying that I believe what the writer is trying to sell (first I have ever heard of it). Regardless, if the univeristy as a whole can eveolve from a all white male school to a truly diverse university why can't the tradition of bonfire overcome any unsavory past deeds which may or may not have occured? I think that bringing back bonfire would be a great way to reunite former and current students at a time where it appears more and more former students are feeling distanced from the university because of the period of rapid change that is ongoing.

Thats just my opinion...
FullDraw
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I read it.

It's not worthy to wipe my ass with.

It's DMN. I wasn't surprised. Another tool writer in a long line of tool writers.
Dr. Mephisto
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quote:
This article is spot on in many ways, like it or not.


Only if you decide your world is composed of knowing half or less than half of the truth.

The article is an inflamatory attempt to sell papers, generate emotional responses, and reduce a brilliant tradition to buzzwords that are meant to agitate, anger, and upset.

Then, of course, like the yellow journalism it is, it will claim free-speech-one-man's-opinion-just-telling-it-like-I-see-it, bullcrap nonsense. We are supposed to take it seriously because this guy was on the "inside."

I submit this guy was never "inside" at all. He simply "went to college", while the rest of us adopted a spirit that this guy side-stepped completely.

This article will make the pc crowd very happy. I would never trade being an Aggie, or be shamed by her great and unique traditions, just because I wanted to please the collective of "journalists" that lie to us and themselves, having sold out to outside agendas.

This guy is trying to make himself out to be a champion of responsibility, equality, racial harmony, blahblahblah, by attacking a target he thinks an easy one.

I say he's made himself a prostitute.

He sold out because he thinks he can gain from it. He sacrifices something powerful, and wonderful, and unique, and character building, and a thousand other positives because it's easier to throw out some inflammatory rhetoric, prtened to cast yourself in some sainted light, then bask when non-thinkers begin to heap accolades upon his fake image of himself he's desperately tried to create.

The guy is a w h o r e begging for the easy dime of the groups that will praise his "boldness". We know who these people and groups are. We know the DMN is all about controversy. They'll galdly pay the w h o r e his price, just to listen to the sounds of toil that follow that to them means $. There is no desire for honesty, integrity, or truth in any of them.

I feel bad for the writer, who "went to A&M" but has no idea of what being an Aggie in this respect means. I don't think he missed the point. I think he gets the point, and actively opposes it.

Well then, so be it.

I will probably never meet this writer. But something tells me if I did, he would have a lot more shame about being an Aggie than pride.

For that reason, to me any ring he wears is just as much of a lie as his article.

God bless this place, and protect it from the gutless, the weak, the apologists, the pessimist, the legislators, the false leaders, the bad leaders, the treacherous, the "looters" (you A.R. people get this one!), the insipid, the liars, the selfish, and all the others who would damage out Brilliant and Strong Mother.

AggCoryC
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It will never come back and if it does it wont be the same. Too many liabilities involved with having the student body at risk doing all manual labor in the construction. If you take that away it's not the same bonfire
Stove Top
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Dr. Mephisto,

You do a pretty good job of name calling. To begin your post you mentioned half-truths and such.

Please provide a point by point rebuttal for all of this guy's points. Otherwise, you are acting just as double bubble predicted.

I can hear it now....."from the outside looking it, you can't understand it, from the inside...."

[This message has been edited by Stove Top (edited 9/11/2009 9:02a).]
spherical
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well how about blaming bonfire for someone being dumb enough to let it fail him out of school?

quote:

In fact, he more or less stopped going to class to make sure we’d have a bonfire that year. His grades never fully recovered, and he eventually left A&M — with tons of great stories, but no degree.


you don't think that's a bit of a sensational implication? i had a BQ buddy who's grades were falling hard... you know what he did? even tho he loved the band, because he couldn't handle his grades and the BQ time commitment, he switched to non-reg.
Dr. Mephisto
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Yeah, well there are a few names in there, but if the shoe fits . . . You can feel free to disagree with my assessment. You paint the guy a noble saint of righteousness. Or just one guy giving his opinion. Or whatever you want.

You may be able to see this means a whole lot more to me then it ever meant to dear Mr. Landauer. And there a whole lot more like me.

I say he compromises himself when he writess a VERY NEGATIVELY SLANTED article, then acts like all he really wants is peace and harmony.

The guy's got an agenda. It's one the DMN will pay for. How about if someone wrote an article that was the exact opposite of Landauer's? Do you think they'd be in a hurry to print how Bonfire seals lifelong friendships, builds character, teaches sacrifices, creates an incredible pride and connection to your alma mater, propagates a strong work ethic, team building, etc?

Their only question would be "would it sell?"

Tell me if you think this was printed for any other reason than to inflame?
NASAg03
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there's "racist" and "sexist" language where i work, and that's in a diverse white-collar engineering business with 1000+ employees. people play on each other's differences. we joke and give each other a hard time. you don't need bonfire to have racism and sexism.

we all have stereotypes of every type, whether that's of fratties, sorority girls, white people, rednecks, city boys, black people, or anyone else. and when we fit into those stereotypes and our friends notice it, we poke fun at it.

that's life. life isn't PC. if you try to be PC you will always offend someone. instead of pretending we don't have any differences and we are all the same (PC crap), why not promote and celebrate our differences?

That's what I see happening here at work. That happens in my social circles. My Asian friend has a Mexian wife, and her and her family call him "panda". is that racist? no, they love him and his family deeply.

sorry for the rant. i'm class of 99, and worked on bonfire with OCA my freshman year. it wasn't perfect, but at least there was unity, a common goal, and that exposure to diversity and life. now, people just sit in their ethnic or classist circles, going to their "type" of bar and being around their "type" of friends.

"racism" and "sexism" still exist, only now they are swept under the rug of PC and stuffed in closet.

at least with Cut and Bonfire, peoples faults and stereotypes were out in the open and could be confronted and discussed. now we just pretend they don't exist.

i witnessed the change after bonfire died. it was an overnight difference from '99 to '00. i was involved in off campus bonfire, and it is different but has changed for the better. it has evolved, and it can be brought back.

there are so many more organizations now on campus that can get involved in some aspect of bonfire, even if it's not cutting logs. even if bonfire is smaller, with different materials, it can be brought back with a different but just-as-good unity, diversity, and spirit.

the students make the bonfire, and with university oversight, this tradition can come back better. just look at Big Event for an example.
NASAg03
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quote:
Bonfire seals lifelong friendships, builds character, teaches sacrifices, creates an incredible pride and connection to your alma mater, propagates a strong work ethic, team building, etc?



+1

people think you are going to get all that without racism and sexism. give me a break. the world is full of crappy people, and those same crappy people helped build bonfire.

those same crappy people end up in the military, and i'm sure they contribute to a racist and sexist attitude in the armed forces.

so what, we should do away with the American military because of racism and sexism??? such a lazy, ignorant train of thought.
Jim Benson 63
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Sure, I would like to see Bonfire return. But if it ever does, certainly not in the "wedding cake" stack, but in the "tepee" stack configuration, like we had for many years (whatever happened to that tradition?). Whoever changed that design into the inherently unstable wedding cake configuration is a complete idiot and is in large part to blame for what happened. The collapse was no accident, it was the result of poor design and a culture that refused to change and take advice from highly qualified structural engineers. It was negligence, and even with governmental immunity, that is the reason we settled the lawsuits.

The article addressed "sexism" as well as "racism."

Does anyone know what the sexism allegations are?

I do, and it's not something I am going to repeat on this thread. Try to read some of the depositions that resulted from the lawsuits.

Another question that has been raised is location.

Would you put Bonfire on campus? On the same field where our memorial is? To me, that field is sacred ground.

To continue with the off-campus bonfire as it has occurred this decade? I have no problem with that.

Bonfire will not continue on campus without having a professional construction company build it. Any construction company would have to put up a performance bond, liability insurance, along their normal umbrella policy. I wonder what that insurance would cost. I would suggest to those of you who want to bring it back that you volunteer to pay that insurance premium and we can get started right away.

Since students would have only a small part, if any at all, in Bonfire construction thus lessening its value as a bonding endeavor.

Just a practical observation of reality.

[This message has been edited by Jim Benson 63 (edited 9/11/2009 10:04a).]
CDub06
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Wait. Before it fell, how exactly did Bonfire "derail lives"?
lotoarmy
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My reply to the article:

The tallest bonfire ever was during my junior year (Sergebutt), the fall of 1969. It was 109' 10" tall. It was a very skinny, ugly affair, but safe. Sometime after that was when the restrictions were put on the size. At that time it was located south of the Duncan Corps area.

I endured August football practice in the old days, Corps PT, and the Army, but the most exhausted I ever was in my life was working on the cut for bonfire. It was something very special. It tied together Corps guys, non-regs, black and white and brown, athletes, and generations of Ags that had the same experience.

It could be made safe again. A&M needs it to bring it back.


Last of the Old Army

[This message has been edited by lotoarmy (edited 9/11/2009 10:12a).]
AggieLit
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Other schools with bonfires:

Princeton, Dartmouth, Duke

Somebody get this article to them fast, they need to know that burning logs is causing their school to be racist, chauvinist, and academically underachieving.
AGSPORTSFAN07
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quote:
it was the result of poor design and a culture that refused to change and take advice from highly qualified structural engineers


Wasn't the wedding cake design supposed to have like 5 center poles? I'm not sure the design was poor. It was the lack of sticking to the original design and cutting corners. It was like playing telephone for years and years and years. Eventually much needed data is left out at the end of the passed down message.
Windy City Ag
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quote:
Other schools with bonfires:

Princeton, Dartmouth, Duke

Somebody get this article to them fast, they need to know that burning logs is causing their school to be racist, chauvinist, and academically underachieving.


Maybe it is just me, but I am guessing the allegations come from the behavior of the people involved in the event rather than the actual act of burning logs.

Call me crazy . . . .
texan80
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dubble bubble please return to orangebloods where you obviously came from with you liberal garbage......if you want to be more "openminded" then go to a tu website for God's sake!!!

[This message has been edited by texan80 (edited 9/11/2009 10:41a).]
Windy City Ag
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quote:
Wasn't the wedding cake design supposed to have like 5 center poles? I'm not sure the design was poor. It was the lack of sticking to the original design and cutting corners. It was like playing telephone for years and years and years. Eventually much needed data is left out at the end of the passed down message


Not sure,. What is pointed out ad naseum in the review, however, is that construction went on without any real documentation, building plans, etc. We built bonfire like Tennesse hillbilly's remembered their great grandpappy, namely through stories passed down verbally. That is the gist of the report at least. I am sure there was more to it than that. I was only at cut and stack as the OCA grunt work and never involved in the overall planning.
H.E. Pennypacker
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Regardless of the whether the article is sensationalizing the truth, this thread is the exact type of response noted as a problem in the Bonfire review posted by Double Bubble. Of course, Double Bubble posting "facts" as found by the committee led some of you to call for banning him, because your opinion did not agree with the "facts." It would be funny if it wasn't sad.

BTW, your definition of "racism" and "sexism" isn't going to match everyone elses.
94 Aggie
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Pro-Bonfire. Bring it back!

DMN writer is an idiot.
Chief77
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Fellow Ags.....THAT and other articles that I have read in that "newspaper" are the reasons that I DO NOT subscribe to it anymore. I dropped the paper about 3 years ago and have not missed it one bit. I dropped the Fort Worth star telegram when they came out with the headlines that "Bush Knew". This was the story about 9-11 that he knew in advance. Screw 'em all!!
H.E. Pennypacker
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And you guys ripping the article haven't addressed the numerous ags (in this thread and elsewhere) who were there and concur with the sentiment of the article. Is everyone who doesn't agree with you wrong?
Windy City Ag
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quote:
Is everyone who doesn't agree with you wrong?


Yes, except for Dr. Mephisto. He sees Bonfire criticism as grounds for summary execution and the placement of said critics head on a pike near the interection of Texas and University.
S.A. Aggie
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DMN is much like the new administration. They want Socialism in universities. Everyone the same. Allot of leftist new army is much the same. Wanting to drop old traditions. They want to be like all the other universities but want to be the best at it. They're too confused to change their underwear much like DMN.
BigAggie06
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quote:
And you guys ripping the article haven't addressed the numerous ags (in this thread and elsewhere) who were there and concur with the sentiment of the article. Is everyone who doesn't agree with you wrong?



I frankly don't give a rats a about the "numerous ags who were there and concur with the sentiment". IF those Ags were there and IF these accusations actually occured then I am obliged to feel that THEY were part of the problem. The fact of the matter is that racisim and sexism exist outside the world of A&M and to think that we are exempt from the idiots who would adhere to such bigotry is classic denial. If a few idiots insist on committing racist/sexist acts then it is up to the rest of the idiots to stop them. Grow a pair.

To deny the current student body the tradition of bonfire because of acusations of misconduct of past generations is completly unjustified. As I said, if the university has evolved into a more diverse culture then that should carry over to any activity current students undertake, including Bonfire. The whole argument supporting the article is that I should be punished for crimes committed by my father, grandfather, and great grandfather.
DevilD77
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If I remember correctly, the wedding cake design when I was there had four secondary support poles placed in a square arround the center pole. They were cut to the same height as the lower stack.
Dr. Mephisto
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quote:
Yes, except for Dr. Mephisto. He sees Bonfire criticism as grounds for summary execution and the placement of said critics head on a pike near the interection of Texas and University



You're being nicer than I would be.
NASAg03
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quote:
And you guys ripping the article haven't addressed the numerous ags (in this thread and elsewhere) who were there and concur with the sentiment of the article. Is everyone who doesn't agree with you wrong?



nobody is saying bonfire was perfect, or that there weren't issues that should be corrected or resolved.

our main problem with the article is that it is very screwed towards the left, and misrepresents what bonfire was about. the article was not objective, even though the author attempts to make it objective by stating his involvement with A&M and Bonfire.

his primary purpose was to villify bonfire and all associated with it, including Rick Perry, NOT to present facts.
SRFL
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Here's your racism...along with Robert Gate's address to it.

http://blackademic.com/?p=162

It happens all over, unfortunately. ATM isn't immune to it as much as your would like to think you are. Just go read the politics forum.
Dr. Mephisto
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Nas gets it.

quote:
nobody is saying bonfire was perfect, or that there weren't issues that should be corrected or resolved.


Nas, Please don't post facts or common sense, or . . .

the DMN will never consider publishing you;

you'll infuraite the knee-jerk apologists who just want sound bites and easy targets for their Two-Minutes of Hate;

you'll be labeled racist, sexist, hillbilly, and redneck.






quote:
our main problem with the article is that it is very screwed towards the left, and misrepresents what bonfire was about.



Again, please stop interfering with "attack-first" predilection.




quote:
the article was not objective, even though the author attempts to make it objective by stating his involvement with A&M and Bonfire.



You're disrupting their appeal-to-authority. That will hurt their feeling AND their argument.



quote:
his primary purpose was to villify bonfire and all associated with it, including Rick Perry, NOT to present facts.



What can be done about people like Nas who have COMMON SENSE, are RATIONAL, and won't KNEEL TO ATTEMPTS TO CONFUSE OPINION AND FACT UNDER THE VALIDATION OR GUISE OF JOURNALISM?

bleedmaroondad
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S
consider the source and move on...

BTHO everyone and let God sort them out
 
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