Texas and Viet Nam

2,247 Views | 23 Replies | Last: 3 days ago by one safe place
Rongagin71
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Here is a sad commentary that, judging by the WW2 generation / Boomers that I knew, is a good description of how the war changed attitudes in Texas including the switch to Republicans.
CanyonAg77
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Full of platitudes, but no information, in my opinion.

Your mileage may vary.
one safe place
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My lottery number was 12 and I rode a bus to Houston for my physical. (Got classified 1-A so it was a matter of time.) When I got home my dad seemed a bit down and later that evening he told me that if I got drafted, he expected me to report. But that he did not want me to go to Viet Nam if I was ordered to go. He said we were not trying to win the war, it wasn't our war, and not to go.

Sounded strange coming from him, and three of my classmates heard similar things from their fathers. All those fathers had served, mine was wounded on Tarawa and Saipan, one of the other fathers fought in the Battle of the Bulge, another on Peleliu, and so it seemed strange to me at the time that they felt that way. Definitely a change in attitude from the time they served and the time for their sons to serve.

But the draft was stopped so I never had to make the decision.
Rongagin71
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It was a very upsetting time. My father was retired USAF officer but was conflicted.
Johnson started as a very popular President and his "Great Society" was passed with both parties support.
But he blundered into an Asian war that we had no business being in as far as I can tell.
My best friend in HS and fish old lady both went, and both came back with shrapnel in their legs.
I wasn't doing all that well in chemical engr so was running getting physically ready to volunteer when they held the birthday lottery where my birthdate drew such a high number I no longer had to worry about the draft.

I ran that video because it seemed to me like both a praise of Texas and an explanation of why the state went Republican that is more accurate than the "they are racist" explanation.
aalan94
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The percentage of people protesting the war, burning draft cards, etc. was actually really small nationwide, and even smaller in Texas. It's the squeaky wheel that gets the grease of media attention.

Most people who opposed the war did so quietly by simply getting deferments (most of those college kids already had one, so burning their draft cards is gratuitous), and that was behind the scenes and didn't get a lot of attention.

As for the video's explanation of the shift to the GOP, I think there is a tie, but I don't think that's a very accurate description of how that happened. The video's author posits that Vietnam created skepticism about big government that shifted people away from the Democrats. I don't think this is true, because even though the South was solidly Democratic, they were skeptical of big government going back decades. The skepticism of big government in Democratic circles in Texas can be traced back to VP John Nance Garner basically deciding to run against FDR's new deal in 1940, and was on his way when FDR engineered a coup in the DNC and outflanked Garner to get a third term.

There were other factors not involving race that were helping in the shift to the GOP. The state had been rapidly developing industry and commerce since the 1940s, and those fields are closely aligned with the GOP, so more and more Texans were aligned with the GOP on some of those issues.

The real shift in the party that occurred relative to Vietnam was I think the reaction to the extremes of the anti-war left, and the belief that the Democratic Party was moving in an anti-American direction. LBJ was still able to win by attacking Goldwater, but when you get people like McGovern becoming the standardbearer (even though he flew B-24s in WWII, he was basically an anti-war pinko), a lot of Democrats really started losing faith in their party on the national level (though they still stayed loyal to local politicians).
CanyonAg77
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Best explanation of why Texas and the South became Republican

OldArmyCT
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Back in the day there were options to the draft, and the most honorable was to volunteer. The Army has more jobs involving brains than they do involving shooting people but testosterone gets in the way sometimes. Despite what you may read on Facebook there were a ton of cooks and clerks and mechanics in Vietnam, for some reason they just don't admit it. The draft was a 2 year commitment, I volunteered for helicopter pilot training, that was 3 years after flight school, or 4 years. It wasn't much safer but the living conditions were much better. Friend of mine got drafted while in law school, they let him finish but he went to Vietnam as an 11B grunt. He also didn't have 4 years to waste he said.
CanyonAg77
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Had a cousin who graduated from TTech, and had a low draft number, He just wanted to finish his stuff and get back to the family farm. So he volunteered Army when he could have easily gone to OCS or Air Force enlisted. Those would have taken too much of his time, in his book.

He served as a medic. Spent about 8 months with a combat unit (Redcatchers) until he finally got R&R. He was so sick by then, that he was hospitalized after R&R (should have been hospitalized during)

Doctor in the hospital got him transferred to hospital orderly, he finished his two years in Hawaii working at a hospital.
Sapper Redux
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That's an awful straw man of an argument. I expect nothing less from "PragerU."
CanyonAg77
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NM

Believe what you need to
Sapper Redux
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This is a topic WELL covered by historians and the idea that there wasn't a massive ideological realignment of the parties with conservative white Southerners transitioning to the Republican Party and African Americans transitioning to the Democratic Party beginning in the 20s is just comical. It's also comical to ignore the ideological diversity within the parties until very recently.
Rongagin71
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Yeah it is comical, so why did you set up such any easy to knock over straw horse?
BQ78
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She's from Vandy, it is a Praeger video.

What specifically did she get wrong?
CanyonAg77
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BQ78 said:

She's from Vandy, it is a Praeger video.

What specifically did she get wrong?

She failed to follow the left wing narrative.
Jabin
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Quote:

the idea that there wasn't a massive ideological realignment of the parties with conservative white Southerners transitioning to the Republican Party and African Americans transitioning to the Democratic Party beginning in the 20s is just comical.
You obviously didn't take the time to watch the video. She discusses that very point.

I lived through much of that transition and watched my folks and family members change from Dems to Republicans. That change had nothing to do with racism, but everything to do with the growing dominance of the anti-military mindset within the Dem party, the fiscal liberalism of the Dem party, and the stripping of power from the states to the federal government.

During the 60s and 70s, the primary issue that united the Republican party was opposition to the Soviet Union and support for our military. The Democratic party was virulently anti-military.
rackmonster
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Jabin said:

Quote:

the idea that there wasn't a massive ideological realignment of the parties with conservative white Southerners transitioning to the Republican Party and African Americans transitioning to the Democratic Party beginning in the 20s is just comical.
You obviously didn't take the time to watch the video. She discusses that very point.

I lived through much of that transition and watched my folks and family members change from Dems to Republicans. That change had nothing to do with racism, but everything to do with the growing dominance of the anti-military mindset within the Dem party, the fiscal liberalism of the Dem party, and the stripping of power from the states to the federal government.

During the 60s and 70s, the primary issue that united the Republican party was opposition to the Soviet Union and support for our military. The Democratic party was virulently anti-military.
Not to far from where I grew up in Philly, there was a public high school (I went to the Catholic High) ., Thomas Edison HS. Thomas Edison lost more graduates in the Vietnam War (64) than any other HS in America. It was all-boys, mostly Black. They sure weren't Republicans. Every Veterans Day, here in my suburban Philly town, they bring up Thomas Edison High. And I quip to myself "You sure won't hear that on FOX or NEWSMAX.(or even TEXAGS)

My hometown in Pa. was wall-to wall GOP when I was growing up. My dad was the only Dem for miles around. He was active in State and Local politics. In 1980, when Reagan was elected, 2 of my father's 3 sons were serving. I was flying off a Carrier, my brother was in his jet training in the USMC. And all my dad heard was all the GOP Reagan types beating their chests about how "pro-military" they were, and how "anti-military" he was. Simply because they voted for Reagan. None of their kids were serving. It was a lonely time for my parents. They simply weren't part of the Flag-Waving Tribe.

Things aren't as simple as the whole generation that grew up on FOX and Rush Limbaugh want to make them out to be.




CanyonAg77
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The experience of your family does not negate the reality of the Democrat party in the 1960s and since
Cen-Tex
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Quote:

My lottery number was 12
#325 here. Man was I happy!
clarythedrill
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Cen-Tex said:

Quote:

My lottery number was 12
#325 here. Man was I happy!
Could someone explain how the lottery draft worked?
BQ78
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Number was assigned based on your birhdate. High number good, low number hello Vietnam.
clarythedrill
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BQ78 said:

Number was assigned based on your birhdate. High number good, low number hello Vietnam.
But how was the number assigned?
CanyonAg77
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clarythedrill said:

BQ78 said:

Number was assigned based on your birhdate. High number good, low number hello Vietnam.
But how was the number assigned?

As the name says: Lottery

I seem to recall they had a big drum that was filled with ping pong balls with dates. Roll the drum, pull out a ball, You Lose!
CanyonAg77
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one safe place
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Cen-Tex said:

Quote:

My lottery number was 12
#325 here. Man was I happy!
lol, I bet you were! A great many of my friends had low numbers like me. My cousin was #3 and a close friend was in the top ten, but I forget his actual number. I was working at a plant and nearly every guy there had served their time and gave me grief about the upcoming draft lottery. I did not know my number until I got to work the day after the numbers were pulled but they sure let me know, lol.
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