Give me a mind-blowing history fact

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whoop1995
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11:12a, 6/2/24
AG
There were over seven hundred POW camps for German soldiers in the US during ww2 holding over 425,000 pow's. One of the biggest was in Hearne, Texas housing over 4000 POW. The town of Hearne at the time had only 3000 residents and the army camp only had about 500 guards. There were also Italian and Japanese pow prisioners there as well. One of the only camps to have all three axis powers housed at the same camp.

If you have a spare afternoon you might want to take a drive to Hearne to check out the small museum there. They will tell you stories of how the prisoners lived, how some died brutally by their own code, spy rings inside the camp, show you stuff that they have dug up and what happened to the prisoners after the war. You can participate in an escape room involving the camp. Pretty interesting and fun.


https://camphearne.com/


Also Texas had one of the biggest Japanese internment camps for families but that's another story. Crystal city.
I collect ticket stubs! looking for a 1944 orange bowl and 1981 independence bowl ticket stub as well as Aggie vs tu stubs - 1926 and below, 1935-1937, 1939-1944, 1946-1948, 1950-1951, 1953, 1956-1957, 1959, 1960, 1963-1966, 1969-1970, 1972-1974, 1980, 1984, 1990, 2004, 2008, 2010
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spud1910
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In reply to whoop1995 • 6:56p, 6/2/24
AG
There was a POW camp in Orange, TX and the POWs worked in the rice fields. The first time my dad ever chewed gum was there. His mom sent him down the street to the store to get something and the POWs were coming back from the fields. One of them gave him a piece of gum which they got with the rations they were provided.
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CanyonAg77
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In reply to whoop1995 • 7:49p, 6/2/24
AG
On mobile right now, so not going to post a lot of photos and links . Italian POW camp in the panhandle near Hereford. They helped in the fields near the German community of Umbarger. The farmers fed them at a time when POW rations were short.

To thank the community, they produced several extraordinary art works for St Mary's Church in Umbarger.

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Slicer97
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8:12a, 6/3/24
AG
Our campus sits next to Camp Swift between Bastrop and Elgin and used to be part of Swift. Tons of old concrete foundations left over from WWII on our campus and neighboring properties.

Supposedly, 3 German officers were hanged during that time for killing a prisoner they caught acting as an informant.
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Cen-Tex
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9:52a, 6/3/24
AG
Interesting Camp Swift factoids -

1. Many of the German POW's were former Africa Corps soldiers
2. There were about 300 Russians held as POW's. They were forced to fight w/the Germans.
3. After the war, Camp Swift was downsized. Many of the buildings and barracks were given to the surrounding communities. I attended Sunday School in one of those buildings.
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Tyrannosaurus Ross
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10:01a, 6/3/24
AG
The VA hospital and complex in Temple is on the site of a German POW camp during WWII.
“A crowded world thinks that aloneness is always loneliness, and that to seek it is perversion.”

John Graves
Goodbye to a River
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Cen-Tex
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In reply to Tyrannosaurus Ross • 12:21p, 6/3/24
AG
Tyrannosaurus Ross said:
The VA hospital and complex in Temple is on the site of a German POW camp during

Weren't the POW's housed across the street from the hospital on the grounds of what's now Temple College?
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Rabid Cougar
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In reply to Tyrannosaurus Ross • 12:26p, 6/3/24
AG
Tyrannosaurus Ross said:
The VA hospital and complex in Temple is on the site of a German POW camp during WWII.
The POW camp was where Temple College is now located there on 1st Street.. The VA hospital was there before the POW camp. The hospital opened in June of 1942 as McCloskey Hospital. The first POWs didn't show up until June 1943. They were all Italians and Germans Afrika Corps from North Africa.

The Temple POW camp was a satellite camp for the Camp Hood POW camp which held about 4,000 prisoners.. They rotated the POWs from the Camp Hood to McGloskey where they worked on work details and stayed in the POW "camp". which was located across the road from the hospital complex. The hospital also treated wounded and injured POWs.

The hospital's Chapel is the only remaining structure/evidence of the POWs time in Temple.

Source - My Dad. His house was right down the road from the hospital. He and his friends used to play in the old barracks buildings. I remember them tearing the last barracks building down in 1977 to make room for more buildings for the college.

.

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Tyrannosaurus Ross
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12:42p, 6/3/24
AG
Thanks for clarifying the camp location. My dad is also an old Temple guy. He grew up just south of the POW camp. As a kid he found a spoon around the camp or hospital with MDUSA stamped on the handle. Any idea what that stands for? I used it that spoon at my grannie's my entire childhood and now it's the spoon I use to scoop coffee into my coffee maker every day.
“A crowded world thinks that aloneness is always loneliness, and that to seek it is perversion.”

John Graves
Goodbye to a River
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whoop1995
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In reply to Tyrannosaurus Ross • 12:54p, 6/3/24
AG
Tyrannosaurus Ross said:
Thanks for clarifying the camp location. My dad is also an old Temple guy. He grew up just south of the POW camp. As a kid he found a spoon around the camp or hospital with MDUSA stamped on the handle. Any idea what that stands for? I used it that spoon at my grannie's my entire childhood and now it's the spoon I use to scoop coffee into my coffee maker every day.
Medical department USA - typical cutlery stamp used in military hospitals during ww2

I collect ticket stubs! looking for a 1944 orange bowl and 1981 independence bowl ticket stub as well as Aggie vs tu stubs - 1926 and below, 1935-1937, 1939-1944, 1946-1948, 1950-1951, 1953, 1956-1957, 1959, 1960, 1963-1966, 1969-1970, 1972-1974, 1980, 1984, 1990, 2004, 2008, 2010
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Tyrannosaurus Ross
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2:01p, 6/3/24
AG
Awesome! That's the spoon. Thanks.
“A crowded world thinks that aloneness is always loneliness, and that to seek it is perversion.”

John Graves
Goodbye to a River
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Windy City Ag
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3:06p, 6/3/24
AG
I was served up a youtube video recently on "Perpetual Stew" or a pot that never stops boiling.

Some place in Perpignan, France claimed to have kept the same stew going from the 15th century all the way until World War II, when its custodian ran out of ingredients to keep it going during the German occupation.

There is a place in Japan that has had a perpetual stew running since 1945.

https://www.odditycentral.com/foods/this-japanese-restaurant-has-been-using-the-same-broth-for-nearly-65-years.html
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Rabid Cougar
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In reply to Tyrannosaurus Ross • 4:16p, 6/3/24
AG
Tyrannosaurus Ross said:
Thanks for clarifying the camp location. My dad is also an old Temple guy. He grew up just south of the POW camp. As a kid he found a spoon around the camp or hospital with MDUSA stamped on the handle. Any idea what that stands for? I used it that spoon at my grannie's my entire childhood and now it's the spoon I use to scoop coffee into my coffee maker every day.
What year did your dad go to Temple High? Mine was 55-59
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Tyrannosaurus Ross
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4:30p, 6/3/24
AG
Class of 1960
“A crowded world thinks that aloneness is always loneliness, and that to seek it is perversion.”

John Graves
Goodbye to a River
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agrams
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4:57p, 6/3/24
AG
Project Azorian has to be one of the wildest secret stories of the cold war:

the old government line of "We can neither confirm nor deny......" is known as the Glomar response (the full quote being "We can neither confirm nor deny that our agency has any records matching your request").

It was named so after the Glomar Explorer, a special ship from a company with Howard Hughes that was a front for recovering a sunken Russian Submarine. It had a hidden/underwater carriage to hoist of the sunken submarine. It failed in its efforts when 2/3 of the submarine broke off and sank to the sea floor. 2 nuclear torpedos were recovered, along the bodies of six crewmen, who were given a memorial service and with military honors, buried at sea in a metal casket because of radioactivity concerns.

A gesture of good will, Director of Central Intelligence Robert Gates presented a film of the burial ceremony to Russian President Boris Yeltsin in 1992.
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jwoodmd
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5:07p, 6/3/24
The British nuclear sub had quite a year in 1982. She became the first nuclear powered submarine to sink an enemy warship (in the Falklands War). Later that year, using special pincer/cutters she stole a Soviet towed sonar array and recovered it in order to learn its secrets (especially, if it came from Western tech that was stolen). Had the British sub been discovered trying to cut away the Soviet sonar array it would have been considered an act of war.

HMS Conqueror was a Churchill-class nuclear-powered attack submarine and one of the most powerful ships in the Royal Navy in the 1980s. During the Falklands War she sank the Argentine Navy light cruiser ARA General Belgrano] when it was determined the ship posed a threat to the Royal Navy task force steaming south to retake the Falkland Islands. The sinking was only the second sinking by submarine torpedo since the Second World War and first by a nuclear powered submarine.
Just two months later, the nuclear-powered Conqueror was nine thousand miles away, in the Barents Sea. She had been outfitted with an unusual set of tools: a pair of remote-controlled heavy steel cutting blades and television cameras. All in the interest of stealing a top secret Russian towed sonar array.


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Stive
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5:33p, 6/3/24
AG
How close did they have to get to the actual sub to cut off the towed sonar?
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jwoodmd
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In reply to Stive • 5:51p, 6/3/24
Stive said:
How close did they have to get to the actual sub to cut off the towed sonar?
Think the array was on a cable about two miles long as the passive array had to be far away from the ship towing it so there was not interference. Sounds simple but....

1. The sub had to maintain the exact speed of the ship and the array (otherwise it would be heard) for quite some time.
2. The tool to cut the cable could not make a clean cut - otherwise it would be obvious it was cut. So, the tool had to sever the cable making it look like it was snagged on something (and do it "quietly")
3. Once the array was severed, they had to wait for the towing ship to be far away before divers could retrieve it from the seabed.
4. There is speculation that they were not in international waters so if discovered, they could immediately be attacked.

The other part that was interesting but I'm not entirely sure of accuracy, is that once the array was sent back to the US and inspected, it was clear it was designed using stolen US/Western technology. I believe this information led to the discovery of a big time spy in the US Navy.
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p_bubel
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9:58a, 6/4/24


In 1876, veteran salesman Pete McManus and his young partner, John Warne Gates, made their first demonstration in San Antonio's bustling Military Plaza, it was here in the quiet "mudhole" of Alamo Plaza that McManus and Gates set up a barbed wire corral and then drove cattle into the pen. It is said that after the corral held the thundering animals under the astonished eyes of cowboys and cattlemen, the flamboyant Gates invited spectators in the Menger Hotel to place their orders. After the theatrical demonstration in Alamo Plaza, the market for barbed wire fencing suddenly exploded with large sales to Texas ranchers and others along the frontier.

Pete McManus reportedly sold more barbed wire fencing than any salesman in the world. John W. "Bet-A-Million" Gates became the world's largest barbed wire manufacturer. He helped found the Texas Company (later Texaco) and develop the town of Port Arthur.

Barbed wire fencing changed the landscape of the American west and with it the industries of ranching and agriculture. It made possible the introduction of cultivated cattle stock into the beef industry and opened up the fertile land to farmers and other homesteaders. Within 25 years nearly all the open range had become privately owned and under fence.

This led to disputes known as the range wars between open range ranchers and farmers in the late 19th century. These were similar to the disputes which resulted from enclosure laws in England in the early 18th century. These disputes were decisively settled in favor of the farmers, and heavy penalties were instituted for cutting a barbed wire fence. Within 2 years, nearly all of the open range had been fenced in under private ownership. For this reason, some historians have dated the end of the Old West era of American history to the invention and subsequent proliferation of barbed wire.



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BQ78
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In reply to p_bubel • 10:02a, 6/4/24
AG
I've heard but never confirmed that it is still illegal to have wire cutters in your pocket in Texas.
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Slicer97
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In reply to BQ78 • 1:56p, 6/4/24
AG
I've heard this too.
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CanyonAg77
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In reply to BQ78 • 2:03p, 6/4/24
AG

https://www.chron.com/neighborhood/eastex/opinion/article/Dodson-Antiquated-laws-still-on-the-books-9694911.php

Quote:
An ordinance from the days of the "wild west" stating that wire cutters can not be carried in your pocket remained on the books in Austin, Texas, for many years. The Texas Legislature finally updated the Penal Code in 1973 and removed the law from the books. It is now legal to carry wire cutters in your pocket on your own property.

Don't see how that's an update, if it only applies to your own property.

They can have my pair of pliers when they pry my cold, dead fingers off of them.


Totally unrelated: We were always told that if your girlfriend was in the car with you, was under 18, and took off her shoes, you could be charged with statutory rape.
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LMCane
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2:04p, 6/4/24
After graduating from West Point in 1852, Second Lieutenant Phil Sheridan was assigned to the 1st U.S. Infantry Regiment at Fort Duncan, Texas on the Rio Grande River.

Sheridan would go on to become General of the Armies in the 1880s.
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LMCane
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2:07p, 6/4/24
350 yards in front of you is the Hackwood House, constructed in 1777 by John Smith, a Winchester area politician and militia leader.

Hessian prisoners of war from the Battle of Saratoga hewed stone from a nearby rock outcropping and built the home.

During Union Gen. George Crook's mid-afternoon attack, combat swirled around the Hackwood House and adjoining fields.

When Crook's soldiers crossed Red Bud Run, Confederate Col. George S. Patton's Brigade, posted behind a stone wall lining the lane that ran west from the house to the Valley Pike, fired heavy volleys at the Federals as they charged past the house.

The Virginians put up an obstinate fight, but reinforcements from Union Col. Joseph Thoburn's division poured into the battle from behind you while Union cavalry operating in the distance beyond the interstate joined the attack.

Hit on three sides, Patton attempted to fight his way back 1,000 yards toward another stone wall where Gen. John B. Gordon was rallying his men, but Patton's troops were overwhelmed by "converging columns of infantry and cavalry," the cavalry hacking with their sabers. Patton's brigade was effectively destroyed, and Patton himself was mortally wounded by a shell fragment; he died 6 days later.

Meanwhile, Crook quickly consolidated his command, advanced, and engaged the Confederates behind the second wall, located today about 1,000 yards to your left on the west side of the interstate.

Patton's grandson was the famed World War II general, George S. Patton.

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CanyonAg77
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In reply to LMCane • 2:08p, 6/4/24
AG
Wonder how many famous generals were stationed in Texas at one time. I know that Robert E. Lee was.
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Jabin
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In reply to CanyonAg77 • 2:27p, 6/4/24
CanyonAg77 said:
Wonder how many famous generals were stationed in Texas at one time. I know that Robert E. Lee was.
Just as a start, the following were part of the 1st and 2nd Calvary Regiments when they were stationed in Texas. At least that's what the googletron tells me.

Robert E. Lee
JEB Stuart
Albert Sidney Johnston
Joseph Johnston
George Thomas
John Bell Hood
Edmund Kirby Smith
Earl Van Dorn
William Hardee
John Sedgwick

And then a bunch more later as part of the pre-Civil War Department of Texas and the post-Civil War efforts to subjugate the Comanches.

Then through the years, you might be hard-pressed to find a senior officer who was not stationed in Texas at one time or another. Wasn't Ft. Sam the largest Army post up until World War 2?
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Hey Nav
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In reply to Jabin • 2:37p, 6/4/24
AG
Is Ft Sam going to be on the name change list?
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p_bubel
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In reply to CanyonAg77 • 2:44p, 6/4/24
CanyonAg77 said:
Wonder how many famous generals were stationed in Texas at one time. I know that Robert E. Lee was.
Philip Sheridan was at Fort Duncan. (Eagle Pass)
Lee was at Fort Mason, along with John Bell Hood
Gen. Frederick Funston, John Persing, Eisenhauer, William 'Billy' Mitchell at Fort Sam Houston
Claire Chennault at Kelly Field
McArthur at West Texas Military Academy (TMI) - Not really "stationed" though.
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p_bubel
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In reply to Hey Nav • 2:45p, 6/4/24
Hey Nav said:
Is Ft Sam going to be on the name change list?
Nah.
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BigJim49 AustinNowDallas
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In reply to Slicer97 • 2:48p, 6/4/24
AG
Slicer97 said:
Our campus sits next to Camp Swift between Bastrop and Elgin and used to be part of Swift. Tons of old concrete foundations left over from WWII on our campus and neighboring properties.

Supposedly, 3 German officers were hanged during that time for killing a prisoner they caught acting as an informant.

High school - we drove thru the POW camp at Bastrop.

Gave the firnger to POWS! Felt good and safe.
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p_bubel
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2:53p, 6/4/24



Geronimo, the Apache war chief confined at Fort Sam Houston (in the Quadrangle) in 1886. Captured with 32 other Apache warriors in Arizona, he was sent to Fort Sam while the federal government decided whether they were to be treated as prisoners of war or turned over to civil authorities. The Apaches including the warriors' women and children were housed in Army tents along the Quadrangle's north wall, then home to its blacksmith and wheelwright shops for about six weeks until they were moved to Florida.



I still need to visit the revamped musuem.
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p_bubel
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In reply to Jabin • 2:59p, 6/4/24
Jabin said:
CanyonAg77 said:
Wonder how many famous generals were stationed in Texas at one time. I know that Robert E. Lee was.

Then through the years, you might be hard-pressed to find a senior officer who was not stationed in Texas at one time or another. Wasn't Ft. Sam the largest Army post up until World War 2?

In 1876, upon completion of the Quadrangle, the Army began to move its facilities to the new site. As it expanded, additional facilities were built to meet the Army's needs. The headquarters and garrison have always constituted one of the Army's most important commands. Prior to the Civil War, the headquarters controlled 25 percent of the Army's forces.

From 1910 until World War II, Fort Sam Houston was the largest Army post in the continental United States. Many of the most distinguished American soldiers have served here, including no less than 13 Army Chiefs of Staff and two United States presidents.

During this period, Fort Sam Houston also gave birth to military aviation. On 2 March 1910, the first entirely military owned, piloted, and planned flight took place here, providing the first step in the formation of the U.S. Air Force.

In the post-war years, as space for combat training exceeded what Fort Sam Houston could offer, warfighters were assigned elsewhere and Fort Sam focused on medical training, and earning the nickname "Home of Army Medicine." In the Quadrangle, Headquarters, Fourth Army oversaw Cold War activities until 1971 when it merged with Fifth Army and was inactivated.

In 2003, U.S. Army South moved to Fort Sam Houston, and in 2008 its lineage was consolidated with that of the Sixth U.S. Army. In 2012, all the numbered field armies were re-designated, and Fifth U.S. Army became U.S. Army North. Between the two, they oversee defense activities for all of North and South America.
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p_bubel
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3:12p, 6/4/24

Veramendi Street and Main Avenue, San Antonio. (1910) Built,1734 Demolished, 1910.

Jos Antonio de la Garza was commissioned in 1818 by the Spanish government to mint the first coins struck in Texas. On one side of the coin were his initials, "JAG," and the date 1818; on the other side was a single star.

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Hey Nav
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In reply to p_bubel • 3:22p, 6/4/24
AG
I am being serious about this (even though I do not agree about the name changing).

Sam Houston was a slave owner.

What about NAS Kingsville? Kingsville was named after Richard King of King Ranch fame, another slave owner.
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p_bubel
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In reply to Hey Nav • 3:44p, 6/4/24
Hey Nav said:
I am being serious about this (even though I do not agree about the name changing).

Sam Houston was a slave owner.

What about NAS Kingsville? Kingsville was named after Richard King of King Ranch fame, another slave owner.
He was also a Unionist.

I think the iconoclasm movement has either burned itself out or moved on to other things.

Hell, San Antonio installed a statue to a confederate slave holder not too long ago.
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