Give me a mind-blowing history fact

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FJB24
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5:22a, 3/25/24
Very few know/recognize this history.

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Sapper Redux
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In reply to FJB24 • 5:31a, 3/25/24
India-Pakistan is nasty on both sides. The casualties during the partition is one of the great underreported events in modern history and there were repeated outbreaks of new violence in India, particularly towards Muslims.
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Rongagin71
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5:57a, 3/25/24
AG
I've long thought India vs Pakistan was the most likely place for a nuclear war.
But Putin vs NATO seems to have some potential,
and North Korea is crazy enough to even nuke China.
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p_bubel
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2:02p, 3/26/24



In 1973 the Mississippi River almost jumped to a new route along the Atchafalaya River bypassing Baton Rouge and New Orleans completely. It's only been through a massive Army Corps of Engineers project in the 50s that keeps the current route viable.

A sudden new route and outlet would be catastrophic globally.

Link

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Stive
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In reply to p_bubel • 2:26p, 3/26/24
AG
I get regionally catastrophic. In what ways would it be globally catastrophic?

(Not smarmy or disagreeing….genuinely curious).

It's still dumping into the gulf, but a few hundred miles to the west if it were on its new path. Does that change some kind of current in the gulf in a big way? Or is it some other kind of atmospheric shift that would occur?
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p_bubel
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3:14p, 3/26/24
The amount of food shipped down the river, unloaded and then shipped overseas is massive. (60% of US grain supply is sent down barges to the gulf) If those facilities are no longer accessible and have to be replaced along the new channel it would cause a global supply crisis.
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Stive
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In reply to p_bubel • 3:44p, 3/26/24
AG
p_bubel said:
The amount of food shipped down the river, unloaded and then shipped overseas is massive. (60% of US grain supply is sent down barges to the gulf) If those facilities are no longer accessible and have to be replaced along the new channel it would cause a global supply crisis.

Ah gotcha…didn't think about that. Interesting.

So (maybe) a dumb question. If the Miss. changed flow to that new route, would the channels from NO to the gulf back fill with salt water since NO is below sea level? It'd be a longer way around for a while but until new port loading/unloading could be built on the "new" river, could the barges come down the river, circle out into the gulf and go into NO from the south?

(I know ZERO about shipping, ports, etc so all of that may be insanely stupid….just thinking through a wild mess like that happening)
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p_bubel
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4:26p, 3/26/24
" If you're wondering why the Gulf of Mexico is marching up the Mississippi River and threatening to make things very salty, here's a little background on why it's possible.

The river bottom not the surface is actually below sea level all the way to Natchez."

So, it would be possible to use the old channel filled with salt water till it silted up I guess?
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USAFAg
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9:00p, 3/26/24
AG
This is a great thread. Read it every day for something interesting. Good work, y'all!

12thFan/Websider Since 2003
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Quad Dog
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In reply to TellMeMore • 8:16a, 3/27/24
AG
TellMeMore said:
One Summer, America 1927 by Bill Bryson, great read talks about the race across the Atlantic and the NY Yankees.
Due to this recommendation I'm about halfway through this. Fun fact from last night: that in 1927 Beaumont, TX had more 10 story building than Paris.
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ChipFTAC01
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In reply to TellMeMore • 8:40a, 3/27/24
AG
TellMeMore said:
One Summer, America 1927 by Bill Bryson, great read talks about the race across the Atlantic and the NY Yankees.


Kind of a similar book called 'Last Good Sumner' about the '55 Dodgers. Weaves together the story of the '55 Dodgers who finally won the World Series, the behind the scenes machinations around a new stadium for the Dodgers that ultimately lead to them (and the Giants) moving to California, the off the field stories of the players with some aging stars and new talent and the changing story of Brooklyn with demographics and development.
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mike073
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12:06p, 3/27/24
AG
Back in December of 2011 this appeared on Google Earth for about three weeks until someone took it down. When you zoomed in and moved to ground level, there it was.



Gig 'em Aggies!

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p_bubel
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11:49a, 3/28/24
There were hardly any toilets at Versailles and with a court counting several thousand people it turned out to be more than a little problem. The servants, the commoners who came to look at their monarch even the aristocrats would occasionally relieve themselves in corners and courtyards though this was not as often as has later been implied. Visitors - including Horace Walpole - complained about the awful smell that hung over everything; even the gardens were not free for the hideous odour. Thanks to the many reports of ambassadors and foreign visitors the splendid palace became known as one of the filthiest in the world - not exactly what had been expected. The problem became so acute that Louis XIV put a new rule in place according to which the hallways were to be cleansed for faeces (if there was any) and dirt once every week. Also, many of the King's beloved orange trees were put into vases inside the palace in an attempt to mask the smells.
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CanyonAg77
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In reply to p_bubel • 11:51a, 3/28/24
AG
Politicians never change. Instead of fixing the problem, he covered the smell.
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jwoodmd
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In reply to p_bubel • 12:12p, 3/28/24
p_bubel said:
There were hardly any toilets at Versailles and with a court counting several thousand people it turned out to be more than a little problem. The servants, the commoners who came to look at their monarch even the aristocrats would occasionally relieve themselves in corners and courtyards though this was not as often as has later been implied. Visitors - including Horace Walpole - complained about the awful smell that hung over everything; even the gardens were not free for the hideous odour. Thanks to the many reports of ambassadors and foreign visitors the splendid palace became known as one of the filthiest in the world - not exactly what had been expected. The problem became so acute that Louis XIV put a new rule in place according to which the hallways were to be cleansed for faeces (if there was any) and dirt once every week. Also, many of the King's beloved orange trees were put into vases inside the palace in an attempt to mask the smells.
Well, back then, it was common to carry a handkerchief that smothered in perfume or cologne so you could divert your senses.

I don't think people realize that the nose of a 1000 years ago was very different than our sensitive ones today. Most people of today would be vomiting constantly at the smells of other people, city streets, etc. back then.
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aalan94
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2:11p, 3/28/24
AG
Quote:
I've long thought India vs Pakistan was the most likely place for a nuclear war.
But Putin vs NATO seems to have some potential,
and North Korea is crazy enough to even nuke China.
A few thoughts. North Korea is never going to nuke China. The simplest reason is they are allies. A very troubled and difficult alliance, but still an alliance, and China literally keeps North Korea afloat. Even if they had a rupture, it's just not feasible. The Norks have maybe half a dozen Nukes. They could concentrate on cities with populations of 10 million or more and still not hit all of them. Not to mention the 135 or so additional cities with populations over 1 million.

Don't mistake North Korea playing crazy and saying and doing crazy **** for being actually crazy. Their "crazy" is actually a form of terrorism, because it terrorizes the world into giving them free **** every time they start running out of food or heating oil and have to close down their universities to gather the harvest with actual freaking scythes.

India and Pakistan are of course dangerous, but they do have a sort of corollary of MAD going on: mutual assured non-destruction. Which means neither side really knows how strong the other side is and the only thing worse than having your country destroyed is finding out at the last minute that your enemy has 20 nukes more than you. India too has invested a nuclear triad including sub-launched ballistic missiles, which makes their survivability nearly assured. Pakistan, being the (slightly) more nuts country, doesn't want to mess with that.

One thing everyone forgets when we develop "doomsday" scenarios about nuclear weapons is that 100 percent of the world's nuclear weapons - even the shipborne ones - and 100 percent of the likely targets, are in the Northern Hemisphere. If there's a nuclear war, you want to be in Brazil or Argentina.
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Jabin
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In reply to aalan94 • 3:00p, 3/28/24
Quote:
One thing everyone forgets when we develop "doomsday" scenarios about nuclear weapons is that 100 percent of the world's nuclear weapons - even the shipborne ones - and 100 percent of the likely targets, are in the Northern Hemisphere. If there's a nuclear war, you want to be in Brazil or Argentina.
Interesting. I never thought about or realized that. It makes sense, though. I suppose New Zealand, Australia, or any other southern hemisphere countries would also be options.
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jwoodmd
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In reply to Jabin • 3:26p, 3/28/24
Jabin said:
Quote:
One thing everyone forgets when we develop "doomsday" scenarios about nuclear weapons is that 100 percent of the world's nuclear weapons - even the shipborne ones - and 100 percent of the likely targets, are in the Northern Hemisphere. If there's a nuclear war, you want to be in Brazil or Argentina.
Interesting. I never thought about or realized that. It makes sense, though. I suppose New Zealand, Australia, or any other southern hemisphere countries would also be options.
Umm, no, if there is a full nuclear war, I guarantee you want to be killed in the first strikes. No place on earth will be survivable for mankind and your remaining life and subsequent death will be a grotesque one if not done immediately.
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Rongagin71
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In reply to jwoodmd • 4:03p, 3/28/24
AG
This is what my father, who was an Air Force officer, once told me.
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nortex97
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5:27p, 3/28/24
AG
History of "Land Sea Air" ("Landseaire") flying yachts as second lives for many PBY's:



I had no idea these were used as such as broadly as described. The story of Langford being fired upon/taken prisoner is described here (Bedouin's thought they were Israeli's). It's still there. These planes had fabric-covered wings.

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Cen-Tex
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10:45a, 3/29/24
AG
Had an uncle that told me stories about building PBY's at Consolidated Aircraft Corp in California during early WW2. He received 3 deferments from the draft while working there. Later he asked that they not submit his name for another deferment knowing he would be drafted. He entered the army in 1944, trained ant Camp Hood and was part of the 77th infantry division. Some of his outfit's first action was to help mop up Japanese forces on Saipan. He remembered seeing civilians committing suicide by jumping from the cliffs. In May of 1945, he was badly wounded in Okinawa and was sent home.
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CanyonAg77
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In reply to Cen-Tex • 11:13a, 3/29/24
AG
Had an uncle who left the South Plains around Lubbock, took his new wife to California, and they both worked in the defense industry. Pretty sure they were with aircraft plants, don't recall which ones. He had tried to enlist in 1942, they told him they didn't have the facilities, just wait for the draft.

When his notice came, he was considered too valuable for the plant to let go, But like your uncle, he choose to go anyway.

Flew several missions in the South Pacific (5th Air Force, I think) as flight engineer and top turret gunner on a B-24
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Cen-Tex
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In reply to CanyonAg77 • 12:16p, 3/29/24
AG
CanyonAg77 said:
Had an uncle who left the South Plains around Lubbock, took his new wife to California, and they both worked in the defense industry. Pretty sure they were with aircraft plants, don't recall which ones. He had tried to enlist in 1942, they told him they didn't have the facilities, just wait for the draft.

When his notice came, he was considered too valuable for the plant to let go, But like your uncle, he choose to go anyway.

Flew several missions in the South Pacific (5th Air Force, I think) as flight engineer and top turret gunner on a B-24
I read somewhere that Consolidated Aircraft in San Diego had around 45,000 employees during the war.

Besides assembling PBYs, I remember my uncle talking about working on the different B-24 nose turrets. I know B24's had several nose styles during the war, but he never mentioned which conversion he worked on. All I know is it had something to do with increasing the maneuverability of the machine guns.
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Rongagin71
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1:19p, 3/29/24
AG
Back in the 70's I visited Corpus Christi NAS where they still had a hangar for PBY's.
The bay has a circular current that deposited lots of seashells on the shore by that
last? PBY installation and I was there to pick up samples for a class at A&M.
The base was restricted but I could get on with a visitor pass.
The PBY's flew missions to Central America and the Carribean.
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Belton Ag
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In reply to CanyonAg77 • 1:36p, 3/29/24
AG
CanyonAg77 said:
Had an uncle who left the South Plains around Lubbock, took his new wife to California, and they both worked in the defense industry. Pretty sure they were with aircraft plants, don't recall which ones. He had tried to enlist in 1942, they told him they didn't have the facilities, just wait for the draft.

When his notice came, he was considered too valuable for the plant to let go, But like your uncle, he choose to go anyway.

Flew several missions in the South Pacific (5th Air Force, I think) as flight engineer and top turret gunner on a B-24


I believe the Consolidated bomber plant where they produced B24 Liberators sat on what is now LAX airport.
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Cinco Ranch Aggie
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In reply to Belton Ag • 2:33p, 3/29/24
AG
Belton Ag said:
CanyonAg77 said:
Had an uncle who left the South Plains around Lubbock, took his new wife to California, and they both worked in the defense industry. Pretty sure they were with aircraft plants, don't recall which ones. He had tried to enlist in 1942, they told him they didn't have the facilities, just wait for the draft.

When his notice came, he was considered too valuable for the plant to let go, But like your uncle, he choose to go anyway.

Flew several missions in the South Pacific (5th Air Force, I think) as flight engineer and top turret gunner on a B-24


I believe the Consolidated bomber plant where they produced B24 Liberators sat on what is now LAX airport.
Pretty sure that was Willow Run in Michigan, where they built B-24s.

Edit to add, there was a plant in Ft. Worth where B-24s were built as well. The Willow Run factory appears to have built roughly half the total number of B-24s produced. The B-24 was the most produced bomber in history.
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jwoodmd
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In reply to Cinco Ranch Aggie • 2:38p, 3/29/24
Cinco Ranch Aggie said:
Belton Ag said:
CanyonAg77 said:
Had an uncle who left the South Plains around Lubbock, took his new wife to California, and they both worked in the defense industry. Pretty sure they were with aircraft plants, don't recall which ones. He had tried to enlist in 1942, they told him they didn't have the facilities, just wait for the draft.

When his notice came, he was considered too valuable for the plant to let go, But like your uncle, he choose to go anyway.

Flew several missions in the South Pacific (5th Air Force, I think) as flight engineer and top turret gunner on a B-24


I believe the Consolidated bomber plant where they produced B24 Liberators sat on what is now LAX airport.
Pretty sure that was Willow Run in Michigan, where they built B-24s.
Two places - Consolidated's Ft. Worth plant where the F-16 and others were later built and Ford plant in Michigan as stated above.
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Belton Ag
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In reply to Cinco Ranch Aggie • 2:54p, 3/29/24
AG
Cinco Ranch Aggie said:
Belton Ag said:
CanyonAg77 said:
Had an uncle who left the South Plains around Lubbock, took his new wife to California, and they both worked in the defense industry. Pretty sure they were with aircraft plants, don't recall which ones. He had tried to enlist in 1942, they told him they didn't have the facilities, just wait for the draft.

When his notice came, he was considered too valuable for the plant to let go, But like your uncle, he choose to go anyway.

Flew several missions in the South Pacific (5th Air Force, I think) as flight engineer and top turret gunner on a B-24


I believe the Consolidated bomber plant where they produced B24 Liberators sat on what is now LAX airport.
Pretty sure that was Willow Run in Michigan, where they built B-24s.

Edit to add, there was a plant in Ft. Worth where B-24s were built as well. The Willow Run factory appears to have built roughly half the total number of B-24s produced. The B-24 was the most produced bomber in history.


Well, dammit. Was it North American that had a facility at LAX, then?

Which plants produced the B-25?
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Cen-Tex
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In reply to Belton Ag • 3:00p, 3/29/24
AG
Belton Ag said:
Cinco Ranch Aggie said:
Belton Ag said:
CanyonAg77 said:
Had an uncle who left the South Plains around Lubbock, took his new wife to California, and they both worked in the defense industry. Pretty sure they were with aircraft plants, don't recall which ones. He had tried to enlist in 1942, they told him they didn't have the facilities, just wait for the draft.

When his notice came, he was considered too valuable for the plant to let go, But like your uncle, he choose to go anyway.

Flew several missions in the South Pacific (5th Air Force, I think) as flight engineer and top turret gunner on a B-24


I believe the Consolidated bomber plant where they produced B24 Liberators sat on what is now LAX airport.
Pretty sure that was Willow Run in Michigan, where they built B-24s.

Edit to add, there was a plant in Ft. Worth where B-24s were built as well. The Willow Run factory appears to have built roughly half the total number of B-24s produced. The B-24 was the most produced bomber in history.


Well, dammit. Was it North American that had a facility at LAX, then?

Which plants produced the B-25?
Douglas had a plant near Los Angeles. The El Segundo Division produced a lot of fighter planes for the navy.
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BQ78
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In reply to Belton Ag • 3:00p, 3/29/24
AG
B-24s were also built at Consolidated's factory in San Diego next to Lindbergh Field. Perhaps that is what you are thinking about. Some of the factory buildings are still there and occupied by NAVSEA.
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Cinco Ranch Aggie
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In reply to Belton Ag • 3:01p, 3/29/24
AG
Belton Ag said:
Cinco Ranch Aggie said:
Belton Ag said:
CanyonAg77 said:
Had an uncle who left the South Plains around Lubbock, took his new wife to California, and they both worked in the defense industry. Pretty sure they were with aircraft plants, don't recall which ones. He had tried to enlist in 1942, they told him they didn't have the facilities, just wait for the draft.

When his notice came, he was considered too valuable for the plant to let go, But like your uncle, he choose to go anyway.

Flew several missions in the South Pacific (5th Air Force, I think) as flight engineer and top turret gunner on a B-24


I believe the Consolidated bomber plant where they produced B24 Liberators sat on what is now LAX airport.
Pretty sure that was Willow Run in Michigan, where they built B-24s.

Edit to add, there was a plant in Ft. Worth where B-24s were built as well. The Willow Run factory appears to have built roughly half the total number of B-24s produced. The B-24 was the most produced bomber in history.


Well, dammit. Was it North American that had a facility at LAX, then?

Which plants produced the B-25?
Looks like North American had a plant in Kansas City.

Regarding LAX, it does look like the area that became that airport had something to do with manufacturing aircraft during WWII

https://flightpathlax.com/lax-history/

The link includes a photo of P-51 Mustangs, which also were a North American aircraft. I believe the 'Stang was produced mostly at a North American plant in Inglewood, CA. I'm not up on CA geography, so no idea if Inglewood is close to LA or not. (Although I could just look it up)
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Cen-Tex
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3:04p, 3/29/24
AG
Quote:
Which plants produced the B-25?
The Mitchell's were produced in Inglewood, Calif by North American
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BQ78
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In reply to Cinco Ranch Aggie • 3:08p, 3/29/24
AG
The old LTV plant in Grand Prairie made P-51s. That is where my grandfather worked during the war.
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Chipotlemonger
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3:45p, 3/29/24
AG
Ironically, I got to see a nice and shiny P-51 getting towed at the local airport earlier this week. I got extremely excited at first because I thought it was taxiing. Still was neat, and I was with my toddler and I he got pretty excited as well when he saw my reaction. I think this particular one is in flying condition still. They auctioned off a flight in it at a car show last year.
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p_bubel
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12:07a, 4/1/24
Australia has moved 4.9 feet north since 1994, an annual shift of 2.7 inches. This is combined with a clockwise rotation and is incredibly fast by geological standards.

This causes GPS issues that need to be "fixed."
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