Give me a mind-blowing history fact

156,543 Views | 1054 Replies | Last: 2 days ago by p_bubel
Sapper Redux
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AgRyan04 said:

JABQ04 said:

Some very last defenders of Berlin were French SS. Truly an unenviable position. Die fighting or surrender to the Russkies, or survive that to be shot as a traitor by the French Government.




I guess that's one of those digging your own grave with the choices you make type scenarios


The extent to which the French accommodated fascism is really not well understood. De Gaulle did a great job convincing everyone that the French were resisting the Nazis when few did and many of those were from the French colonies.
Ghost of Andrew Eaton
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Sapper Redux said:

AgRyan04 said:

JABQ04 said:

Some very last defenders of Berlin were French SS. Truly an unenviable position. Die fighting or surrender to the Russkies, or survive that to be shot as a traitor by the French Government.




I guess that's one of those digging your own grave with the choices you make type scenarios


The extent to which the French accommodated fascism is really not well understood. De Gaulle did a great job convincing everyone that the French were resisting the Nazis when few did and many of those were from the French colonies.
This is strange since Communism also had a large following in France as well. Did certain regions embrace it more than others?
Sapper Redux
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The FTP was a communist resistance organization that was pretty effective (they waited until the Nazis invaded the Soviets in 41 before joining the fight). The Vichy regime in the South didn't face a ton of internal resistance until the allies had actually invaded. Resistance in the Nazi-occupied parts of France was higher.
Rabid Cougar
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AG
The founder of the Kentucky Derby and builder of Churchill Downs. was Merriweather Lewis Clark Jr..

William Clarks grandson.
BQ78
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And an evil Confederate general
Rabid Cougar
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BQ78 said:

And an evil Confederate general.
That was Senior.
BQ78
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Whoops
Rongagin71
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The Leonid Meteor Shower of 1833 has also been
called "the night the sky fell"


p_bubel
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Monte Testaccio in Rome is a mountain of jars located right next to the ancient Tiber River port, and the Horrea Galbae warehouses, which would have been used to store imported goods like olive oil.

Markings known as "tituli picti" on the jars show that they originated primarily from Spain, Libya, and Tunisia. As many as 80 million pots make up the hill, which now stands 115 feet high, with another 45 feet under the modern street level.






dcbowers
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oragator said:

Don't care if it turns out to be not true….




I was just wondering where this is and then it all made sense.
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p_bubel
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Frederic Auguste Bartholdi had first intended to represent an "Egyptian peasant in Muslim garments." at the entrance to the Suez Canal and called the sculpture "Egypt Carrying the Light to Asia." However, Egyptian officials rejected the statue as too expensive, leading the architect to take his plans to America. He had to drop her Islamic robe and transform her into a Roman Goddess, renaming her "Liberty Enlightening the World."
Cen-Tex
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A few days ago I read the post about the man-made mountain of jars and was reminded about the WW2 debris mountains in Germany, called Schuttbergs. These were places where the rubble from bombed buildings was shoveled and loaded onto trucks and disposed away from the city centers. Heavily bombed cities like Stuttgart, Munich, Berlin, etc. have their own man woman-made Schuttbergs. The majority of the debris clearing workers were women (Trummerfrauen or rubble women), since German men were in short supply after the war.

Berlin has one of the most notable debris mountains named Teufelsberg (Devil's Mountain) located in what was once West Berlin. It stands 394 ft above sea level and is composed of 98 million cu yds of debris. It took 20 years to build the non-natural hill. In addition, 180,000 trees were planted on Teufelsberg.

During the Cold War, the Teufelsberg was occupied by American and British forces. Also a listening post was utilized by the NSA to spy on Soviet bloc countries. In the 1950's, a ski jump was opened and remained in existence until the late 1990's.

Today the Teufelsberg is no longer a spy station, but an out of the way tourist stop. It is a forest with hiking trails and access to the abandoned listening post.







agrams
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kind of similar (but much less morbid) version of the Mimizuka, an "ear tomb" in Japan which "enshrines the severed noses of at least 38,000 Koreans and over 30,000 Chinese killed during Toyotomi Hideyoshi's invasions."

"Traditionally, Japanese warriors brought back the heads of enemies slain on the battlefield as proof of their deeds....However, because of the number of civilians killed along with soldiers, and crowded conditions on the ships that transported troops, it was far easier to just bring back noses instead of whole heads."

oragator
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One more that I've probably posted before, but don't care.

The single most important document in US history, and likely one of the five most important documents in world history, is missing.
The copy of the DOI in the Smithsonian is the one that was signed when they got back at the end of summer. The one that was signed the week of July 4 (the fair copy) has been lost to history, if founders recollections are to be believed.
It was either destroyed so that the British could t get it, destroyed in the printing process when copies were made (26 of those copies called the Dunlap Broadsides are known to exist, many found in the last century and are worth millions on their own), or maybe, just maybe it's out there. Waiting to be one of the biggest and most important historical finds ever to happen.
So keep your eyes open at garage and estate sales.
Cinco Ranch Aggie
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Someone needs to call Nicholas Cage.
Cen-Tex
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oragator said:

One more that I've probably posted before, but don't care.

The single most important document in US history, and likely one of the five most important documents in world history, is missing.
The copy of the DOI in the Smithsonian is the one that was signed when they got back at the end of summer. The one that was signed the week of July 4 (the fair copy) has been lost to history, if founders recollections are to be believed.
It was either destroyed so that the British could t get it, destroyed in the printing process when copies were made (26 of those copies called the Dunlap Broadsides are known to exist, many found in the last century and are worth millions on their own), or maybe, just maybe it's out there. Waiting to be one of the biggest and most important historical finds ever to happen.
So keep your eyes open at garage and estate sales.
Interesting that the July 4th copy was signed only by John Hancock and Charles Thomson. As you mentioned, the gathering of signatures we see on the 'engrossed' copy we see today with the 56 signatories began on August 2nd.
LMCane
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The battle of Midway was the US Navy's first victory in World War II.

However, until the dive bombers of Wade McCluskey hit the Japanese fleet carriers, the vast amount of US planes had been shot down or missed their target. Over 150 American planes had attacked the Japanese fleet without hitting a single target!!

The torpedo bombers had it the worst- 39 of 42 would be shot down without scoring a single hit on a Japanese warship.

VT-8's first and best-known combat mission came during the Battle of Midway on 4 June 1942. Flying obsolete Douglas TBD Devastators, all of Lieutenant Commander John C. Waldron's fifteen planes were shot down during their unescorted torpedo attack on Imperial Japanese Navy aircraft carriers.

The squadron failed to damage any Japanese carriers or destroy enemy aircraft.

Only one member of VT-8 who flew from Hornet on that day survived in the action, Ensign George Gay.

Gay was rescued the day following the battle. VT-8 was afterwards awarded the American Presidential Unit Citation.

Cinco Ranch Aggie
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And Ensign George Gay is an Aggie. Class of 1940 with a degree in Mechanical Engineering.
LMCane
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The Confederate Rebel Yell sounded like a pack of hungry hyenas

LMCane
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Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

And Ensign George Gay is an Aggie. Class of 1940 with a degree in Mechanical Engineering.

he was the only survivor so was floating in the entire Pacific Ocean watching the Japanese carriers get hit by our SBD bombers..

then was alone with the waves around him for another day until rescued by a US submarine.

so you are first flying in a crappy torpedo bomber, then you are being shot down and your other crew man is killed, then you are crashing into the Pacific Ocean, then you are seeing aircraft carriers blow up, then you are hiding from the Japanese ships, then you are alone in the entire ocean, then you see a submarine surface next to you.

all in 24 hours.

USAFAg
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LMCane said:

Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

And Ensign George Gay is an Aggie. Class of 1940 with a degree in Mechanical Engineering.

he was the only survivor so was floating in the entire Pacific Ocean watching the Japanese carriers get hit by our SBD bombers..

then was alone with the waves around him for another day until rescued by a US submarine.

so you are first flying in a crappy torpedo bomber, then you are being shot down and your other crew man is killed, then you are crashing into the Pacific Ocean, then you are seeing aircraft carriers blow up, then you are hiding from the Japanese ships, then you are alone in the entire ocean, then you see a submarine surface next to you.

all in 24 hours.




Makes for an interesting day at work. Wonder what you could do to top that?

12thFan/Websider Since 2003
Aggie1205
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Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

And Ensign George Gay is an Aggie. Class of 1940 with a degree in Mechanical Engineering.


He did attend A&M but I believe he left prior to graduating.
Cen-Tex
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LMCane said:

The Confederate Rebel Yell sounded like a pack of hungry hyenas


Liked the Don Troiani artwork in the clip
Cinco Ranch Aggie
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Aggie1205 said:

Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

And Ensign George Gay is an Aggie. Class of 1940 with a degree in Mechanical Engineering.


He did attend A&M but I believe he left prior to graduating.
He is listed in the Aggie Network directory with a class year. It does say in the listing in light grey text "No Degree".
Rabid Cougar
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LMCane said:

Cinco Ranch Aggie said:

And Ensign George Gay is an Aggie. Class of 1940 with a degree in Mechanical Engineering.

he was the only survivor so was floating in the entire Pacific Ocean watching the Japanese carriers get hit by our SBD bombers..

then was alone with the waves around him for another day until rescued by a US submarine.

so you are first flying in a crappy torpedo bomber, then you are being shot down and your other crew man is killed, then you are crashing into the Pacific Ocean, then you are seeing aircraft carriers blow up, then you are hiding from the Japanese ships, then you are alone in the entire ocean, then you see a submarine surface next to you.

all in 24 hours.


Two other crewman were killed... TBD had three crewmen

Sorry. Proceed.
CanyonAg77
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Okay, that's interesting. The famous last photo shows 16 crew for 8 planes. Every account I've ever read talks about 2 per plane. Is it possible that they did not carry a bombadier when doing torpedo runs?
Rabid Cougar
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CanyonAg77 said:

Okay, that's interesting. The famous last photo shows 16 crew for 8 planes. Every account I've ever read talks about 2 per plane. Is it possible that they did not carry a bombadier when doing torpedo runs?


Very possibly. I was just looking at my WWIi plane reference book and it shows three crewmen. VT-8 very well could have had just two during this action..
Rabid Cougar
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Rabid Cougar said:

CanyonAg77 said:

Okay, that's interesting. The famous last photo shows 16 crew for 8 planes. Every account I've ever read talks about 2 per plane. Is it possible that they did not carry a bombadier when doing torpedo runs?

Very possibly. I was just looking at my WWIi plane reference book and it shows three crewmen. VT-8 very well could have had just two during this action..


You are correct . They only had two crewmen during this action.
Murder Hornet
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Cen-Tex said:

LMCane said:

The Confederate Rebel Yell sounded like a pack of hungry hyenas


Liked the Don Troiani artwork in the clip


Any truth that our Whooping is based on the rebel yell?
Hey Nav
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If they were not using the Torpedo Officer / Navigator that could explain all the misses.
Cinco Ranch Aggie
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CanyonAg77 said:

Okay, that's interesting. The famous last photo shows 16 crew for 8 planes. Every account I've ever read talks about 2 per plane. Is it possible that they did not carry a bombadier when doing torpedo runs?
The Devastator was a 3-man torpedo bomber. Did not always have to be crewed by 3 to carry out its mission, and as pointed out was only carrying 2 per plane at Midway. The other thing I am unsure of , though, is did the pilot actually serve as the bombardier? I am pretty sure there was a small window on the underside that the pilot could look through to aim his fish. Probably not ideal on a torpedo run.
CanyonAg77
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My reading was that the bombaidier had a small window he could look forward through for aiming, not the pilot.

Since it was a torpedo run, not a bomb run, bombadier wasn't needed. Pilot just needed to hold altitude and speed, point the nose at a ship
Rongagin71
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CanyonAg77 said:

My reading was that the bombaidier had a small window he could look forward through for aiming, not the pilot.

Since it was a torpedo run, not a bomb run, bombadier wasn't needed. Pilot just needed to hold altitude and speed, point the nose at a ship
"Just had to hold altitude and speed" would make it easy to shoot down, suggesting minimal crewing.
Jabin
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Did they miss, or did the torpedoes hit and fail to explode? I know that was a major problem with our torpedoes early in the war.
Cinco Ranch Aggie
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Quote:

Did they miss, or did the torpedoes hit and fail to explode? I know that was a major problem with our torpedoes early in the war.
Probably a combination of those explanations, with an additional explanation that they were shot down without having launched
 
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