Give me a mind-blowing history fact

176,237 Views | 1088 Replies | Last: 8 hrs ago by Cinco Ranch Aggie
USAFAg
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AG
Survivor bias. It's a real forehead slap, duh moment when you think about it.

12thFan/Websider Since 2003
YZ250
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Thought I'd go ahead and post the answer as a spoiler before I forget. It's obvious and logical once you read the answer.

RAY: His recommendation very simply was to armor plate the unhit areas that the returning planes had in common. When he surveyed the undersides of these planes, he noticed that there were a few spots that all of them had in common that had no bullet holes. And he had to assume that the ones that hadn't returned had bullet holes in those locations. They were in the English Channel someplace.
p_bubel
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Of note the Rus Vikings, the Danelaw and the Varangian Guard
Jabin
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I thought that I had recently that genetic testing showed the modern Russians are Slavs, not Scandinavian. Is that wrong?
Tanker123
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Hannibal's army of 50,000 defeated a Roman army of 86,000 at Cannae. The Romans had the proclivity to march in large formations in a frontal attack. Therefore, Hannibal devised a battle plan to defeat the Romans. It is estimated the casualties and losses to the Romans was 67,500 - 80,000. Hannibal lost 5,700 - 8,000.

In a nutshell, the great Roman army marched forward. Hannibal placed a line of heavy infantry in front of the Romans. He placed light infantry behind the heavy infantry. The Carthaginian cavalry had a sizeable advantage over the Roman cavalry and ran them off from the battlefield. Hannibal sent the light infantry to cover the Roman left and right flanks. Then his cavalry sealed the rear of the Roman army.

The Roman army was completely surrounded, and it continued to march forward. The Carthaginian army started to constrict the Roman army. The combination of the two conditions caused the Roman army to be condensed to the point soldiers had little room to fight effectively. It was impossible for the Roman soldiers to fight an organized defense because they were surrounded. It was said the brutality of the battle was so intense Roman soldiers tried to commit suicide and sometimes the Carthaginians cut the hamstrings of the Roman soldiers to prevent their escape.




agrams
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AG
imagine 70k+ people killed by hand weapons. the sheer longevity and physical demands and brutality of that event had to mind-staggering
Tanker123
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agrams said:

imagine 70k+ people killed by hand weapons. the sheer longevity and physical demands and brutality of that event had to mind-staggering
I drove through the Leavenworth, KS national cemetery where 50,000 people are buried. It looked like an endless sea of white crosses. I could not fathom a battle consisting of 135,000 soldiers fighting it out. It is said the battle lasted two long days. The logistics support must have been staggering as well.
p_bubel
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The San Antonio Riverwalk, probably the largest tourist destination in the state, was a result of a devastating flood in 1921.







A new dam (almost always dry behind it) was built north of downtown and plans were made to straighten the river and cover over the horseshoe section downtown.



And then a local architect, Robert Hugman, -who still doesn't have a street or park named after him, proposed The Shops of Aragon and Romula plan.



These plans for the new Riverwalk layout also included a new cutoff channel and flood gates to protect downtown from future flooding events. (Eventually a newer 24' diameter tunnel under downtown would render both unnecessary)
lb sand
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AG
Americans fighting alongside Germans vs nazis at the end of ww2.
Buck Compton
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AG
Tanker123 said:

agrams said:

imagine 70k+ people killed by hand weapons. the sheer longevity and physical demands and brutality of that event had to mind-staggering
I drove through the Leavenworth, KS national cemetery where 50,000 people are buried. It looked like an endless sea of white crosses. I could not fathom a battle consisting of 135,000 soldiers fighting it out. It is said the battle lasted two long days. The logistics support must have been staggering as well.
Its a staggering number. It likely would have been 0.5% of the entire military-aged male population in the entire Roman Empire at that time.

I literally have no tactical knowledge of this battle outside of just knowing how legendary the defeat was, so don't take this as an attack or anything, but listening to Carlin enough has also made me dubious of any large death figures from reports of early battles.

I haven't tried to search on this battle, but have there been any independent studies or hypotheses about the number? Any good links to read up on the battle? It seems fascinating to explore.
Rongagin71
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AG
agrams said:

imagine 70k+ people killed by hand weapons. the sheer longevity and physical demands and brutality of that event had to mind-staggering
When a history book says a city was "sacked" - that is what it means.
This was fairly common when cities did not surrender.
For example, it took the English about a month to sac
the roughly 30,000 Scottish inhabitants of Berwick.
Tanker123
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Buck Compton said:

Tanker123 said:

agrams said:

imagine 70k+ people killed by hand weapons. the sheer longevity and physical demands and brutality of that event had to mind-staggering
I drove through the Leavenworth, KS national cemetery where 50,000 people are buried. It looked like an endless sea of white crosses. I could not fathom a battle consisting of 135,000 soldiers fighting it out. It is said the battle lasted two long days. The logistics support must have been staggering as well.
Its a staggering number. It likely would have been 0.5% of the entire military-aged male population in the entire Roman Empire at that time.

I literally have no tactical knowledge of this battle outside of just knowing how legendary the defeat was, so don't take this as an attack or anything, but listening to Carlin enough has also made me dubious of any large death figures from reports of early battles.

I haven't tried to search on this battle, but have there been any independent studies or hypotheses about the number? Any good links to read up on the battle? It seems fascinating to explore.
You have a very valid point. As a retired army officer, I like to write military history essays pertaining to battles and wars that interest me because I enjoy writing and military history. There are a lot of lessons learned from the past that are relevant today. Invariably, I look at more than one source of information to try to develop a cohesive picture of historic martial events. I want to know what happened at the Battle of Cannae and why it happened. I am also interested in strategic conditions that shaped battles and wars.

When the 18th Airborne Corps Task Force was deployed to Iraq, its C-1 personnel staff section tracked every service member coming into and leaving the area of operations. Thus, its numbers were good. When conducting research in regard to military history, rarely will sources of information mention the methodology in determining troop strengths in battles and wars. Sometimes the numbers are derived from historians and philosophers from antiquity. Variances from different sources can be dramatic. Therefore, the numbers of combatants will be debatable.

I don't want to be a smart ass but google can be your friend when conducting research. It will take looking at a few sources of information in order to understand why things happened and the big picture. I have written several military history essays with you if you are interested.

agrams
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AG
understood. but historic sackings often could last week or months. even if it's half the number (35k) over two days, that's just constant carnage and brutality.

probably the closest modern equivalent is the Rape of Nanking, which lasted around 6 weeks and nearly 200k were killed (estimates vary wildly though, from down around 40k to 300k).
Tanker123
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agrams said:

understood. but historic sackings often could last week or months. even if it's half the number (35k) over two days, that's just constant carnage and brutality.

probably the closest modern equivalent is the Rape of Nanking, which lasted around 6 weeks and nearly 200k were killed (estimates vary wildly though, from down around 40k to 300k).
I liked Genghis Khan's style. If they surrender peacefully then the town, city, or principality would be spared of violence, but choosing to fight would often lead to everything alive would be killed and massacred.
Tanker123
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A Japanese soldier in a Philippines jungle does not believe the war is over and holds out for 29 years after the Japanese surrender to the US. Leaflets were dropped and loudspeakers were used to convince him the war was over, but he thought they were trying to trick him. Eventually, his former commander flies to the Philippines and gives him the order to surrender to which he complied.
Stive
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AG
Tanker123 said:

A Japanese soldier in a Philippines jungle does not believe the war is over and holds out for 29 years after the Japanese surrender to the US. Leaflets were dropped and loudspeakers were used to convince him the war was over, but he thought they were trying to trick him. Eventually, his former commander flies to the Philippines and gives him the order to surrender to which he complied.

I think there were multiple instances of this. This guy was the longest but I heard somewhere that there were lots of these situations that lasted for several years after the formal surrender.
BQ78
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AG
Yes, I remember during my high school years in the early 70s, four surrendered in a relatively short time. The first one was on Guam, then two in the Philippines and finally one in Indonesia.
HarleySpoon
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AG
Stive said:

Tanker123 said:

A Japanese soldier in a Philippines jungle does not believe the war is over and holds out for 29 years after the Japanese surrender to the US. Leaflets were dropped and loudspeakers were used to convince him the war was over, but he thought they were trying to trick him. Eventually, his former commander flies to the Philippines and gives him the order to surrender to which he complied.

I think there were multiple instances of this. This guy was the longest but I heard somewhere that there were lots of these situations that lasted for several years after the formal surrender.
There was one case actually documented during the filming of an episode of Gilligan's Island.
Tanker123
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Stive said:

Tanker123 said:

A Japanese soldier in a Philippines jungle does not believe the war is over and holds out for 29 years after the Japanese surrender to the US. Leaflets were dropped and loudspeakers were used to convince him the war was over, but he thought they were trying to trick him. Eventually, his former commander flies to the Philippines and gives him the order to surrender to which he complied.

I think there were multiple instances of this. This guy was the longest but I heard somewhere that there were lots of these situations that lasted for several years after the formal surrender.
There was a documented case of one that surpassed this one by something like a week. The one in the Philippines was compensated well by the Japanese government, but the other one was given only +$200. I believe this was the case because he was not on orders when he became a Japanese soldier.
CanyonAg77
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AG
The important question: Did he like Ginger or Marianne?
bones75
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The greatest maritime disaster (loss of life) in American history was the sinking of the Sultana in 1865. Greatly overloaded (6X capacity) as it carried people including freed Union prisoners back north, apparently, a leaky boiler exploded, killing up to 2000 people ( more than the Titanic). It was not widely covered by papers at the time coming so soon after Lincoln's assassination.
No material on this site is intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis or treatment. See full Medical Disclaimer.
oragator
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Don't care if it turns out to be not true….

Rongagin71
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AG
To post a happier subject - it appears children's books have an art history.
Rabid Cougar
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AG
CanyonAg77 said:

The important question: Did he like Ginger or Marianne?
Marianne... ALWAYS!
mike073
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AG
Saw this lady floating in the Trieste, Italy harbor last week. Caught my eye for it's unusual shape and configuration. Could not really tell how large it was from my vantage point until I looked it up.



Turns out is a mere 468 ft long, $600,000,000 sailboat owned by a Russian Andrey Melnichenko and was seized by Italy when the Ukraine conflict started. Only costs a million or so a week to operate.

https://www.superyachtfan.com/yacht/sailing-yacht-a/



Gig 'em Aggies!

Stive
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AG
So I'm a sailing/yacht idiot…..I know nothing about either one.

How does something like that cost $1,000,000 per week to operate? Fuel? If personnel, then how big would that make the crew? Or are their other costs that I'm not familiar with for that kind of boat?
Buck Compton
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AG
Stive said:

So I'm a sailing/yacht idiot…..I know nothing about either one.

How does something like that cost $1,000,000 per week to operate? Fuel? If personnel, then how big would that make the crew? Or are their other costs that I'm not familiar with for that kind of boat?
Insurance, preventative maintenance and inspections, fuel, mooring and docking fees, and yeah, salary for full time staff (and food for staff too).
USAFAg
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AG
Buck Compton said:

Stive said:

So I'm a sailing/yacht idiot…..I know nothing about either one.

How does something like that cost $1,000,000 per week to operate? Fuel? If personnel, then how big would that make the crew? Or are their other costs that I'm not familiar with for that kind of boat?
Insurance, preventative maintenance and inspections, fuel, mooring and docking fees, and yeah, salary for full time staff (and food for staff too).


Hookers and blow

12thFan/Websider Since 2003
JABQ04
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AG
BQ78 said:

Yes, I remember during my high school years in the early 70s, four surrendered in a relatively short time. The first one was on Guam, then two in the Philippines and finally one in Indonesia.


Japanese held out on Iwo Jima until 1949. Dudes were freaking nuts.
JABQ04
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AG
Some very last defenders of Berlin were French SS. Truly an unenviable position. Die fighting or surrender to the Russkies, or survive that to be shot as a traitor by the French Government.

p_bubel
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San Antonio's red light district (The Sporting District) was the 3rd largest in the nation (behind New Orleans and San Francisco) before being shut down in 1941 by San Antonio Police Commissioner after pressure from Major General Richard Donovan and Dwight D. Eisenhower - who was the Third Army's chief of staff at Fort Sam Houston.

In July 1941, President Franklin D. Roosevelt had signed into law a federal ban on prostitution near naval and army bases.

QBCade
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AG
USA*** said:

Buck Compton said:

Stive said:

So I'm a sailing/yacht idiot…..I know nothing about either one.

How does something like that cost $1,000,000 per week to operate? Fuel? If personnel, then how big would that make the crew? Or are their other costs that I'm not familiar with for that kind of boat?
Insurance, preventative maintenance and inspections, fuel, mooring and docking fees, and yeah, salary for full time staff (and food for staff too).


Hookers and blow


That's extra
p_bubel
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Matamoros in 1860s was home to 20,000 speculators from the Union and the Confederacy, England, France, and Germany. The port exported 320,000 bales of cotton to England and France after being carted through Texas. It was a temporary home for German-Texan Unionist exiles during a period of French Occupation with Mexican Monarchists, Republicans and Imperialists fighting for control of the area with Union and Confederate troops just across the river doing the same.

It must have been a wild time along the river.
AgRyan04
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JABQ04 said:

Some very last defenders of Berlin were French SS. Truly an unenviable position. Die fighting or surrender to the Russkies, or survive that to be shot as a traitor by the French Government.




I guess that's one of those digging your own grave with the choices you make type scenarios
Rabid Cougar
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AG
p_bubel said:

San Antonio's red light district (The Sporting District) was the 3rd largest in the nation (behind New Orleans and San Francisco) before being shut down in 1941 by San Antonio Police Commissioner after pressure from Major General Richard Donovan and Dwight D. Eisenhower - who was the Third Army's chief of staff at Fort Sam Houston.

In July 1941, President Franklin D. Roosevelt had signed into law a federal ban on prostitution near naval and army bases.


Waco lost its booming Red Light District in 1917 when the Army came in and built Camp MacArthur.
All those good Michigan and Wisconsin boys could not be trusted.....
 
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