It's a documentary currently airing on Nat Geo. It's really informative with terrific color footage of European life post ww2. It can get really graphic so watch it without little kids. Get recording!
Life After Hitler!
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Last: 1 yr ago by Eliminatus
I don't have cable, so can't watch. Do they reference the book Savage Continent by Keith Lowe?
I didn't hear them mention it. I missed part of the first episode, though.
Why would it be graphic "after" Hitler?
Would like to know when it comes on again.
Lots of people getting hanged,shot beaten by mobs. Bodies pulled from bombed out buildings etc.
Oh yeah. Sort of forgot about that part...wasn't discussed alot in school.marcel ledbetter said:
Lots of people getting hanged,shot beaten by mobs. Bodies pulled from bombed out buildings etc.
Saw "After Hitler" on demand. Interesting video segments throughout the 45 min documentary about displaced populations, collaborators, war orphans, and lack of food & resource. It also had a good segment on the communist take over, the Berlin Airlift and rebuilding Germany. The last part of the show reveals the brutal retaliation against east European German civilians. Showed that all governments and people are capable of killing.
The not so talked about part. The vast majority of girls/women from 8 to 80 were raped by Soviet soldiers. Unbelievable cruelty and horrific. Yes, the Germans did that too in Russia.Cen-Tex said:
Saw "After Hitler" on demand. Interesting video segments throughout the 45 min documentary about displaced populations, collaborators, war orphans, and lack of food & resource. It also had a good segment on the communist take over, the Berlin Airlift and rebuilding Germany. The last part of the show reveals the brutal retaliation against east European German civilians. Showed that all governments and people are capable of killing.
I went to my NG on Demand and it wasn't there.
it was pretty good. certainly a scary look back at whats coming here.
elect fools like hitler, then get your entire country flattened, all your wives and daughters raped and/or killed, and you and all your buddies killed in the war, starved in labor camps after the war, and your children turned into worthless anti western communists.
fun stuff.
elect fools like hitler, then get your entire country flattened, all your wives and daughters raped and/or killed, and you and all your buddies killed in the war, starved in labor camps after the war, and your children turned into worthless anti western communists.
fun stuff.
Hitler wasn't elected and that isnt what happened to Germany.
expresswrittenconsent said:
Hitler wasn't elected and that isnt what happened to Germany.
Hitler was appointed chancellor, but elected president after hindenberg asked for a coalition government, all legally in accord with the rules of a democratic republic.
And that is exqctly what happened to germany.
And that is exqctly what happened to germany.
Maybe East Germany under the Russians. The western allies weren't starving Germans in labor camps and turning the Germans into anti-western socialist. Remember the Berlin airlift and the Marshal Plan?expresswrittenconsent said:
Hitler wasn't elected and that isnt what happened to Germany.
Thats a great story! Yes, certainly the nazis used every dirty trick in the book. But they did end up in power as legitimately as a certain recent us election.JJMt said:But Hitler's election was only after the Reichstag fire and the Nazi's use of force to seize power and force out their opponents, correct? I vaguely remember reading that people did try to challenge the Nazis legally, but the Nazis would react by simply shooting them and/or the judges.cbr said:
Hitler was appointed chancellor, but elected president after hindenberg asked for a coalition government, all legally in accord with the rules of a democratic republic.
And that is exqctly what happened to germany.
Side note: my grandfather was a Colonel in the U.S. military police after the war and was responsible for providing security for the new currency that the Allies printed to replace the Deutschmark. Because that required him to travel by train a lot, he was assigned Hindenburg's rail car for his personal use.
He laughed a lot about that because he was the son of German peasants from Wallis, TX, with only a 7th grade education, traveling around Germany in von Hindenburg's rail car.
My older brother was in the military stationed in West Germany in the late 50's. He saw things first hand. People had been starving in the streets because we had destroyed their cities and infrastructure. We were trying to get them fed and rebuilt, thus the Marshall Plan. Also, do some reading on the Berlin airlift. And yes, we expected (and the Germans wanted to anyway) do the labor to rebuild but it wasn't in Soviet style labor camps. You've got a real twisted view on the topic and seems like some shady sources. Also, I suspect you were just a kid in the 70s so you might have misinterpreted the stories.cbr said:Unfortunately the western allies were starving germans in labor camps. And in the streets. Sad chapter of history you wont easily read much about. Not nearly as brutal as the soviets though. The only places you'll read much about it on the net are on nazifile websites and much of that is bs, but there are credible books on the subject. I lived in west germany in the 70's and heard stories from both sides.Old RV Ag said:Maybe East Germany under the Russians. The western allies weren't starving Germans in labor camps and turning the Germans into anti-western socialist. Remember the Berlin airlift and the Marshal Plan?expresswrittenconsent said:
Hitler wasn't elected and that isnt what happened to Germany.
True that the anti western communist indoctrination largely came later though.
First, as a Viet Nam combat vet who conducted countless special missions, I can attest that even thought the US Army is the most honorable it is still an army. Many of the things we did were regardless of borders and status of the enemy. To this day, the general public would be outraged if documents of the missions were released about what we were order to do.cbr said:I dont have a twisted view, if anything, its an untwisted view. the number one thing you were NOT EVER GOING TO SEE are records showing that millions of civilians died under american occupation. Not from the media at the time. not from the military. Not anywhere. Propaganda was a VERY real thing. even in the great US of A.Old RV Ag said:My older brother was in the military stationed in West Germany in the late 50's. He saw things first hand. People had been starving in the streets because we had destroyed their cities and infrastructure. We were trying to get them fed and rebuilt, thus the Marshall Plan. Also, do some reading on the Berlin airlift. And yes, we expected (and the Germans wanted to anyway) do the labor to rebuild but it wasn't in Soviet style labor camps. You've got a real twisted view on the topic and seems like some shady sources. Also, I suspect you were just a kid in the 70s so you might have misinterpreted the stories.cbr said:Unfortunately the western allies were starving germans in labor camps. And in the streets. Sad chapter of history you wont easily read much about. Not nearly as brutal as the soviets though. The only places you'll read much about it on the net are on nazifile websites and much of that is bs, but there are credible books on the subject. I lived in west germany in the 70's and heard stories from both sides.Old RV Ag said:Maybe East Germany under the Russians. The western allies weren't starving Germans in labor camps and turning the Germans into anti-western socialist. Remember the Berlin airlift and the Marshal Plan?expresswrittenconsent said:
Hitler wasn't elected and that isnt what happened to Germany.
True that the anti western communist indoctrination largely came later though.
there is some legitimate scholarship on the subject, largely relegated to fringe books and websites, because of these reasons. some of these sources are certainly shady. some are outright absurd. but the old books on the subject were written before 'clickbait', and before 'conspiracy theory' websites, and they are compelling, as well as backed up by quotes, contemporary research and foreign media, stats, and common sense, and they line up with my first hand stories as well.
American GI's were probably the most ethical, good natured army in history, but it was still an army. and some american leadership did want to genocide the german people. and it is certainly true that food and other relief went everywhere else but germany first. and you can certainly argue some logic in that, too.
the people i grew up with loved america, and had devoted their lives to ministry; but i was a big history buff and always asking questions. they gave it to me straight.
Second, you keep discussing all these sources telling how it was in Germany after the war. Please share.
. I think there is a big difference between active battle/patrols and occupying forces at the end of WW2.Old RV Ag said:First, as a Viet Nam combat vet who conducted countless special missions, I can attest that even thought the US Army is the most honorable it is still an army. Many of the things we did were regardless of borders and status of the enemy. To this day, the general public would be outraged if documents of the missions were released about what we were order to do.cbr said:I dont have a twisted view, if anything, its an untwisted view. the number one thing you were NOT EVER GOING TO SEE are records showing that millions of civilians died under american occupation. Not from the media at the time. not from the military. Not anywhere. Propaganda was a VERY real thing. even in the great US of A.Old RV Ag said:My older brother was in the military stationed in West Germany in the late 50's. He saw things first hand. People had been starving in the streets because we had destroyed their cities and infrastructure. We were trying to get them fed and rebuilt, thus the Marshall Plan. Also, do some reading on the Berlin airlift. And yes, we expected (and the Germans wanted to anyway) do the labor to rebuild but it wasn't in Soviet style labor camps. You've got a real twisted view on the topic and seems like some shady sources. Also, I suspect you were just a kid in the 70s so you might have misinterpreted the stories.cbr said:Unfortunately the western allies were starving germans in labor camps. And in the streets. Sad chapter of history you wont easily read much about. Not nearly as brutal as the soviets though. The only places you'll read much about it on the net are on nazifile websites and much of that is bs, but there are credible books on the subject. I lived in west germany in the 70's and heard stories from both sides.Old RV Ag said:Maybe East Germany under the Russians. The western allies weren't starving Germans in labor camps and turning the Germans into anti-western socialist. Remember the Berlin airlift and the Marshal Plan?expresswrittenconsent said:
Hitler wasn't elected and that isnt what happened to Germany.
True that the anti western communist indoctrination largely came later though.
there is some legitimate scholarship on the subject, largely relegated to fringe books and websites, because of these reasons. some of these sources are certainly shady. some are outright absurd. but the old books on the subject were written before 'clickbait', and before 'conspiracy theory' websites, and they are compelling, as well as backed up by quotes, contemporary research and foreign media, stats, and common sense, and they line up with my first hand stories as well.
American GI's were probably the most ethical, good natured army in history, but it was still an army. and some american leadership did want to genocide the german people. and it is certainly true that food and other relief went everywhere else but germany first. and you can certainly argue some logic in that, too.
the people i grew up with loved america, and had devoted their lives to ministry; but i was a big history buff and always asking questions. they gave it to me straight.
Second, you keep discussing all these sources telling how it was in Germany after the war. Please share.
He is insinuating that the Allies starved the Germans on purpose. I know I've read how living in the French and Russian sector was hell, but not in the US and British sectors
EDIT Wiki shows their is some truth to what's being said.
BigJim49 AustinNowDallas
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Millions ? Such BS!cbr said:I dont have a twisted view, if anything, its an untwisted view. the number one thing you were NOT EVER GOING TO SEE are records showing that millions of civilians died under american occupation. Not from the media at the time. not from the military. Not anywhere. Propaganda was a VERY real thing. even in the great US of A.Old RV Ag said:My older brother was in the military stationed in West Germany in the late 50's. He saw things first hand. People had been starving in the streets because we had destroyed their cities and infrastructure. We were trying to get them fed and rebuilt, thus the Marshall Plan. Also, do some reading on the Berlin airlift. And yes, we expected (and the Germans wanted to anyway) do the labor to rebuild but it wasn't in Soviet style labor camps. You've got a real twisted view on the topic and seems like some shady sources. Also, I suspect you were just a kid in the 70s so you might have misinterpreted the stories.cbr said:Unfortunately the western allies were starving germans in labor camps. And in the streets. Sad chapter of history you wont easily read much about. Not nearly as brutal as the soviets though. The only places you'll read much about it on the net are on nazifile websites and much of that is bs, but there are credible books on the subject. I lived in west germany in the 70's and heard stories from both sides.Old RV Ag said:Maybe East Germany under the Russians. The western allies weren't starving Germans in labor camps and turning the Germans into anti-western socialist. Remember the Berlin airlift and the Marshal Plan?expresswrittenconsent said:
Hitler wasn't elected and that isnt what happened to Germany.
True that the anti western communist indoctrination largely came later though.
there is some legitimate scholarship on the subject, largely relegated to fringe books and websites, because of these reasons. some of these sources are certainly shady. some are outright absurd. but the old books on the subject were written before 'clickbait', and before 'conspiracy theory' websites, and they are compelling, as well as backed up by quotes, contemporary research and foreign media, stats, and common sense, and they line up with my first hand stories as well.
American GI's were probably the most ethical, good natured army in history, but it was still an army. and some american leadership did want to genocide the german people. and it is certainly true that food and other relief went everywhere else but germany first. and you can certainly argue some logic in that, too.
the people i grew up with loved america, and had devoted their lives to ministry; but i was a big history buff and always asking questions. they gave it to me straight.
BigJim49AustinnowDallas
Old RV Ag, are you at liberty to discuss any of your special military activity? Or can you point out books that would illustrate the type of missions you were a part of? I love this type of history.
If we were killing millions of Nazis, German POWs, civilians I tend to think our revisionist types would have that crap all over the public eye right now and saying look how bad our men were in the '40s.
No, modern leftists dont acknolwege nazi issues. We kept an absolute lockdown on data anyway. There is nothing to dig up. Its pure gone. Little things leaked out, like the 400 calorie per day allocation for german civilians in the us zone. You can do the math on how long you can live on thatJABQ04 said:
If we were killing millions of Nazis, German POWs, civilians I tend to think our revisionist types would have that crap all over the public eye right now and saying look how bad our men were in the '40s.
So was the Berlin Airlift just a publicity stunt? Seems kinda nonsensical to feed civilians in the Soviet Zone but starve the ones in the US zone of occupation
Unfortunately, no. I'll go to my deathbed without every being able to really discuss. I don't see the US ever releasing or declassifying. Let's just say we conducted operations in more than traditionally known places.marcel ledbetter said:
Old RV Ag, are you at liberty to discuss any of your special military activity? Or can you point out books that would illustrate the type of missions you were a part of? I love this type of history.
As for books, I can't recommend any - there may be some but I can't read them. It overloads me to read books like that. In today's age I'd probably have been diagnosed with PTSD but in the 60s it wasn't talked about. I had an incredible wife (45 years till I lost her to cancer) and a ranch with insane work hours to keep it in check.
I will say to all the chopper pilots out there - thanks for always being there. We knew many times the brass thought we were on a one way mission so many times we thought the choppers would not be sent to pick us up. But, those guys were always there!
Edit: I took out most of the first paragraph - in hindsight was saying too much. Sorry.
cbr said:No, modern leftists dont acknolwege nazi issues. We kept an absolute lockdown on data anyway. There is nothing to dig up. Its pure gone. Little things leaked out, like the 400 calorie per day allocation for german civilians in the us zone. You can do the math on how long you can live on thatJABQ04 said:
If we were killing millions of Nazis, German POWs, civilians I tend to think our revisionist types would have that crap all over the public eye right now and saying look how bad our men were in the '40s.
There were food shortages throughout much of Europe for years after WWII. To add some perspective, in Britain, one of the victors, rationing was still in place until the 1950s, for example. RATIONINGcbr said:No, modern leftists dont acknolwege nazi issues. We kept an absolute lockdown on data anyway. There is nothing to dig up. Its pure gone. Little things leaked out, like the 400 calorie per day allocation for german civilians in the us zone. You can do the math on how long you can live on thatJABQ04 said:
If we were killing millions of Nazis, German POWs, civilians I tend to think our revisionist types would have that crap all over the public eye right now and saying look how bad our men were in the '40s.
The situation in Germany was certainly dire, and draconian-even punitive-measures were adopted immediately after VE Day, but a policy of 400 calories a day is not supported by any evidence that I know of. SHORTAGES
Your claim that all the source data to support your assertions has been mysteriously deleted makes you less than credible. If all the data is gone, how do you know what it contained.
That's what I thought you'd say. I once knew a guy that did a lot of interesting things over there and he was the same way.
first, in general, i agree that the us was the most ethical army in history, so i am not trashing my grandparents generation. that said, you can't get to the top of government without being a piece of ****, and we had some pieces of **** running things even back then.JABQ04 said:
So was the Berlin Airlift just a publicity stunt? Seems kinda nonsensical to feed civilians in the Soviet Zone but starve the ones in the US zone of occupation
second, by the berlin airlift, we were truly rehabilitating germany as part of our cold war realization that, yep, soviet russia really was a much, much more evil opponent, and much, much greater threat, than nazi germany and imperial japan were COMBINED.
the period that is on topic is 1945-early 47. From real logistics problems, to deliberate allocation of relief to other places, the reality is that a **** ton of german women and children starved under our watch. And almost every single german woman on the soviet side was raped, in addition to almost every single german pow in soviet camps.
however, if you add up the math, the reality is that it is almost certain that well over a million germans died of starvation or disease under western allies occupation. Some scholars put that figure over 5 million. We won't ever know because our government LOCKED that information down completely.
And if it was good for propaganda, they would not have done that.
So I've been bored and reading into these Rheinwesenlager where German POWs were kept after the war, and other than sources from Baque's book "Other Losses" German deaths are estimated at 3000 to 6000. Food was scarce as was other necessities immediately post war and the Allies weren't prepared to handle this many POWs. Millions were fleeing west in front of the Red Army, and the German army was fighting to the death against the Reds and knocking themselves out to head west to surrender to western allies. Baques seems like a crack pot who took something and an with it, misinterpreting data along the way for a sensational story.
ETA there was another website called "revisionist.net" who ales the same claims but the name says it all
ETA there was another website called "revisionist.net" who ales the same claims but the name says it all
BigJim49 AustinNowDallas
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People stating that our troops starved and killed German civilians and have no proof
should not be allowed to post !
I was stationed in Germany in '55 , had a relative who was in Germany in 44-45 . Never heard of this sort of
treatment by US troops !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
should not be allowed to post !
I was stationed in Germany in '55 , had a relative who was in Germany in 44-45 . Never heard of this sort of
treatment by US troops !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BigJim49AustinnowDallas
Agree completely. I had a brother stationed there around the same time as you, have German second cousins who were kids during and after the war, countless German friends alive and living during that period and not one mention of any of this guy's crap allegations that he just conveniently says all proof was destroyed or hidden by our government. Know Germans who sadly were in the Russian sector and that stuff gets out. No way everything this guy claims of millions starved by us holds water. You can't hide that many bodies or cover it up with all their friends and relatives.BigJim49 AustinNowDallas said:
People stating that our troops starved and killed German civilians and have no proof
should not be allowed to post !
I was stationed in Germany in '55 , had a relative who was in Germany in 44-45 . Never heard of this sort of
treatment by US troops !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Guess this board is too small and not enough traffic for mods to clean that **** up.
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