Life After Hitler!

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cbr
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11:18p, 3/5/21
AG
What the hell people. I am not trashing America. Read my posts. Just because your family didn't report bad news didn't mean it didn't happen. Why not join the discussion instead of playing your own round of cancel culture ?

My grandfathers would not have willingly starved anyone nor would yours I expect. But people in dc would and did condone it publicly. And even if they wanted to feed everyone it would not have been easy. And they didn't want to feed Germans as much as Belgians, french, etc. and that can be justified on some level.

That said a lot of Germans that never wore the uniform died under us occupation. How many? Open for debate. Did the us government cover that up? Yes. Not open for debate. Was Russia worse? Absolutely. Also not open for debate.

All that said, this forum is for debate.
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Old RV Ag
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In reply to cbr • 11:42p, 3/5/21
AG
cbr said:
What the hell people. I am not trashing America. Read my posts. Just because your family didn't report bad news didn't mean it didn't happen. Why not join the discussion instead of playing your own round of cancel culture ?

My grandfathers would not have willingly starved anyone nor would yours I expect. But people in dc would and did condone it publicly. And even if they wanted to feed everyone it would not have been easy. And they didn't want to feed Germans as much as Belgians, french, etc. and that can be justified on some level.

That said a lot of Germans that never wore the uniform died under us occupation. How many? Open for debate. Did the us government cover that up? Yes. Not open for debate. Was Russia worse? Absolutely. Also not open for debate.

All that said, this forum is for debate.
Wow - that's an incredible amount of doublespeak and bad bull.
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Chipotlemonger
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12:38a, 3/6/21
AG
cbr if this was truly a debate you would bring legitimate sources and information. Otherwise the crap you're spewing is just irresponsible and disrespectful conjecture.
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RebelE91
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7:28a, 3/6/21
AG
Not exactly related but I work with a guy whose father was stationed in Berlin from June 45 to June 46. He said US soldiers were not allowed to be out alone because the Russian soldiers were brutal thugs. And he wears his father's aggie ring with a diamond in it. That diamond was obtained by his father trading food supplies from the mess hall. It was in high demand.
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cbr
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In reply to Chipotlemonger • 11:34a, 3/8/21
AG
Chipotlemonger said:
cbr if this was truly a debate you would bring legitimate sources and information. Otherwise the crap you're spewing is just irresponsible and disrespectful conjecture.
i dont have time now to source a bunch of links right now, maybe i will once i get back. my sources are real people who lived it, as well as several 'pre internet bs' books.

quite frankly i am shocked that this forum would fall to snow flake-ignorant-narrow-minded -cancel-culture tactics like this. if you dont like this particular data set, go get your own sources that say it isnt so. i'd love to see it.



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expresswrittenconsent
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11:46a, 3/8/21
"I'm too busy to source my wild claims, go get your own sources"
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Chipotlemonger
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In reply to expresswrittenconsent • 11:54a, 3/8/21
AG
expresswrittenconsent said:
"I'm too busy to source my wild claims, go get your own sources"


Un-freaking-believable.

Then he resorts to 4th grade level ad hominem.
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Old RV Ag
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In reply to cbr • 12:02p, 3/8/21
AG
cbr said:
Chipotlemonger said:
cbr if this was truly a debate you would bring legitimate sources and information. Otherwise the crap you're spewing is just irresponsible and disrespectful conjecture.
i dont have time now to source a bunch of links right now, maybe i will once i get back. my sources are real people who lived it, as well as several 'pre internet bs' books.

quite frankly i am shocked that this forum would fall to snow flake-ignorant-narrow-minded -cancel-culture tactics like this. if you dont like this particular data set, go get your own sources that say it isnt so. i'd love to see it.
Well, my sources are real people who lived it.
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Old RV Ag
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In reply to cbr • 12:12p, 3/8/21
AG
cbr said:


Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I have proven my case beyond a shadow of a doubt based on hearsay and no documentation. And quite frankly i am shocked that my opponents would fall to snow flake-ignorant-narrow-minded -cancel-culture tactics like this. if you don't like my unsupported particular data set which is not open for debate, then go get your own sources that say it isnt so. i'd love to see it.
He's rested his case.
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cbr
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1:19p, 3/8/21
AG

either i am not communicating clearly or you people are really something.

This all started with this true statement by me:

elect fools like hitler, then get your entire country flattened, all your wives and daughters raped and/or killed, and you and all your buddies killed in the war, starved in labor camps after the war, and your children turned into worthless anti western communists. fun stuff.

Then someone countered that with this false statement:

Hitler wasn't elected and that isnt what happened to Germany.

I corrected that falsehood and people got their feelings hurt.

The following are indisputable facts:

1. lots of germans died after the war ended.
2. almost all german soldiers in soviet camps died after the war.
3. most german women in soviet zone were raped after the war; countless atrocities happened there.
4. while us soldiers were generally great people, lots of germans died in the US zone after the war as well
5. the US government covered up that information.

What we are debating is the extent to which the US allowed/failed to prevent/condoned conditions that led to german civilians and prisoners dying in large numbers our zone, and how many died.
There are all kinds of sources for that, including my own family and friends who lived it; including books written from the 1950's on; including internet sites that appear credible; including internet sites that are questionable as obvious 'nazi-file' sites.
But you people cannot even tolerate such a discussion from even happening? That is pathetic. Un-American, really.

I view America as the greatest nation that ever existed, because we were an ethical, free population. That is mostly gone now, and we are operating more like 1930's Germany or early communist state than what America was. This debate remains relevant as the US government did some incredibly evil things in the mid 20th century, starting the slide so visible today. They had to cover it up, because the American people would not have tolerated such things. To what extent was the handling of german occupation like that? That is why I chimed in here. I think there is something to it that we can learn from today.

I may come back to this with more info, but I am not sure there is much point based on the responses.
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expresswrittenconsent
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2:48p, 3/8/21
Yet again, no links or books, just claims that you "spoke to relatives" 50yrs ago. Maybe they exaggerated (uncles and grandparents never do that). Maybe you misunderstood. Maybe you've misremembered after 50 yrs. Maybe you've made crap up before on texags.

This board isn't too patriotic or blind or too liberal or to conservative to openly discuss the bad deeds done by American soldiers, so stop acting like any pushback you get is some affront to free speech or open discussion. You get pushback because you regularly claim unproven accusations to be indisputable facts.
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Old RV Ag
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In reply to cbr • 2:55p, 3/8/21
AG
cbr said:

either i am not communicating clearly or you people are really something.

This all started with this true statement by me:

elect fools like hitler, then get your entire country flattened, all your wives and daughters raped and/or killed, and you and all your buddies killed in the war, starved in labor camps after the war, and your children turned into worthless anti western communists. fun stuff.

Then someone countered that with this false statement:

Hitler wasn't elected and that isnt what happened to Germany.

I corrected that falsehood and people got their feelings hurt.

The following are indisputable facts:

1. lots of germans died after the war ended.
2. almost all german soldiers in soviet camps died after the war.
3. most german women in soviet zone were raped after the war; countless atrocities happened there.
4. while us soldiers were generally great people, lots of germans died in the US zone after the war as well
5. the US government covered up that information.

What we are debating is the extent to which the US allowed/failed to prevent/condoned conditions that led to german civilians and prisoners dying in large numbers our zone, and how many died.
There are all kinds of sources for that, including my own family and friends who lived it; including books written from the 1950's on; including internet sites that appear credible; including internet sites that are questionable as obvious 'nazi-file' sites.
But you people cannot even tolerate such a discussion from even happening? That is pathetic. Un-American, really.

I view America as the greatest nation that ever existed, because we were an ethical, free population. That is mostly gone now, and we are operating more like 1930's Germany or early communist state than what America was. This debate remains relevant as the US government did some incredibly evil things in the mid 20th century, starting the slide so visible today. They had to cover it up, because the American people would not have tolerated such things. To what extent was the handling of german occupation like that? That is why I chimed in here. I think there is something to it that we can learn from today.

I may come back to this with more info, but I am not sure there is much point based on the responses.
Last line is pure admission that you don't have anything to support your claims. In my opinion you wanted to play like F16 but on a History board where we all don't want to sling F16 crap and see what sticks - this board is for actual history supported by facts - of course we can debate the interpretation and ramifications of those events and facts. You haven't given anything of substance to even debate. Now you're upset we (and many who have pretty good direct knowledge) just don't take your word on it and spin it into F16 hyperbole.
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cbr
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4:19p, 3/8/21
AG
i let this get under my skin, so at the cost of some productivity, here is some quick and easy finds in just 5 minutes;

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/852167.After_the_Reich

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rheinwiesenlager

http://whale.to/b/starvation_of_germans.html

https://civilianmilitaryintelligencegroup.com/21788/eisenhowers-death-camps

http://truedemocracy.net/hj34/20.html


while many have attacked this concept, the problems are twofold: 1) as your reactions indicate, the topic is highly politicized still, and most people just dont want to hear about it; just as most people writing about it are driven by some sort of pro nazi or anti western bias, so their credibility has issues too.... but, 2) no one can find unbiased sources, because the US covered up/deleted/stll classifies whatever real data ever existed. there is only one reason for that.

'DEF'... that's not so nice, is it?

and before we get more emotional rejections here, let's not forget that 25 years earlier the Allies absolutely, uncontrovertably did intentionally starve germany after ww1l.



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BigJim49 AustinNowDallas
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5:10p, 3/8/21
AG
Are you for impeaching Gen. Eisenhower since he was in charge ? Dems think it's OK !

Or Pres, Roosevelt who was over everybody ?

2200 calories a day is a pretty good amount of food !
BigJim49AustinnowDallas
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JABQ04
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In reply to cbr • 6:22p, 3/8/21
AG
Wikipedia article claims 3000-6000 deaths out of close to 2 million POWs. Other sources rely heavily on Baques and his outrageous claims. One of the sights you posted said 9 million German civilians and POWs died after the war. I said in another post on this thread Baques is considered a crack pot who wrote a book while misconstruing data to prove a nonexistent point.

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BQ78
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In reply to BQ78 • 10:52a, 3/9/21
AG
I don't understand why staff deleted my post and called it crap. It was actual history, the choice of the German people in 1933 was basically vote Nazi or Communist they were the only viable parties of the eight or so they had to choose from. It really is not dis-similar to current America.
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cbr
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In reply to BQ78 • 3:24p, 3/9/21
AG
BQ78 said:
I don't understand why staff deleted my post and called it crap. It was actual history, the choice of the German people in 1933 was basically vote Nazi or Communist they were the only viable parties of the eight or so they had to choose from. It really is not dis-similar to current America.
except you can vote for nazis and communist republicans, and double nazi or communist democrats! What a choice!
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BigJim49 AustinNowDallas
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11:30a, 3/10/21
AG
Cursory review of cbr's references :

most written in2000s -50-60 years after WW!!.
writer unknown in one case.

"catfish" writer in another

Nuremberg trials began in Nov. 1945

If we were staarving Germans , should this have been brought up and Eisenhower, Patton,

Montgomery ,etc have been put on trial ?

Such BS !

BigJim49AustinnowDallas
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BigJim49 AustinNowDallas
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11:48a, 3/10/21
AG
My personal exposure to German POWs and Jap POWs;

1944-45 - farmer in Austin visited our farm and brought along a German POW assigned

to him for work - no restraints- well fed !

Saw hundreds of German POWS at Camp Swift near Bastrop - all looked well fed!

POW fixed our truck near ElPaso - looked well fed!

Jan. 1946 San Diego North Island Jap POWs trucked to and from work- all looked well fed !

1954 Ramstein. Germany - secretary about 22, Russian descent, born in Poland , raised in Allied

camp in Germany. Married to GI - so good looking she would have given Marilyn Monroe a run for

her beauty ! Definitely well fed !

BigJim49AustinnowDallas
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nortex97
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In reply to BigJim49 AustinNowDallas • 8:09a, 3/11/21
AG
Thank you sir! First hand accounts are rarer by the day, but rebut the conspiracy/ignorant claims of some today.
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agracer
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In reply to cbr • 3:40p, 3/11/21
AG
No, people took issue with your claim that "millions " of Germans were starved by the Allies after WW2 on purpose and asked for evidence.

Then you proceeded to call everyone questioning this and asking for sources being closed minded to debate.

No one is claiming Garman's were all happy and well fed after the war (much of Europe was on food rations), but the claim that millions were starved to death as a matter of government policy would have been pretty widely known and documented by now.
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ja86
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2:32p, 4/1/21
AG
Thought this was an interesting addition to this discussion...

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JABQ04
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In reply to ja86 • 12:47a, 4/2/21
AG
Just saw he dropped this and came to post the same thing.

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BQ78
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8:50a, 4/2/21
AG
That Canadian novelist needs to get a shovel and find those 1M starved to death Germans if he wants to be believed.
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aTmAg
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In reply to Old RV Ag • 6:34a, 4/3/21
AG
Old RV Ag said:
cbr said:

either i am not communicating clearly or you people are really something.

This all started with this true statement by me:

elect fools like hitler, then get your entire country flattened, all your wives and daughters raped and/or killed, and you and all your buddies killed in the war, starved in labor camps after the war, and your children turned into worthless anti western communists. fun stuff.

Then someone countered that with this false statement:

Hitler wasn't elected and that isnt what happened to Germany.

I corrected that falsehood and people got their feelings hurt.

The following are indisputable facts:

1. lots of germans died after the war ended.
2. almost all german soldiers in soviet camps died after the war.
3. most german women in soviet zone were raped after the war; countless atrocities happened there.
4. while us soldiers were generally great people, lots of germans died in the US zone after the war as well
5. the US government covered up that information.

What we are debating is the extent to which the US allowed/failed to prevent/condoned conditions that led to german civilians and prisoners dying in large numbers our zone, and how many died.
There are all kinds of sources for that, including my own family and friends who lived it; including books written from the 1950's on; including internet sites that appear credible; including internet sites that are questionable as obvious 'nazi-file' sites.
But you people cannot even tolerate such a discussion from even happening? That is pathetic. Un-American, really.

I view America as the greatest nation that ever existed, because we were an ethical, free population. That is mostly gone now, and we are operating more like 1930's Germany or early communist state than what America was. This debate remains relevant as the US government did some incredibly evil things in the mid 20th century, starting the slide so visible today. They had to cover it up, because the American people would not have tolerated such things. To what extent was the handling of german occupation like that? That is why I chimed in here. I think there is something to it that we can learn from today.

I may come back to this with more info, but I am not sure there is much point based on the responses.
Last line is pure admission that you don't have anything to support your claims. In my opinion you wanted to play like F16 but on a History board where we all don't want to sling F16 crap and see what sticks - this board is for actual history supported by facts - of course we can debate the interpretation and ramifications of those events and facts. You haven't given anything of substance to even debate. Now you're upset we (and many who have pretty good direct knowledge) just don't take your word on it and spin it into F16 hyperbole.
We don't let this sort of unverified trash fly on F16 either.
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cbr
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2:06p, 4/3/21
AG
Im not wasting any more time arguing with irrational people on this. Im the only one here that poster any links.

I get it. You dont believe bad **** happened in germany after ww2 and you dont care to consider any evidence of it. Fine. Enjoy your bubbles.
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JABQ04
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In reply to cbr • 2:56p, 4/3/21
AG
cbr said:
Im not wasting any more time arguing with irrational people on this. Im the only one here that poster any links.

I get it. You dont believe bad **** happened in germany after ww2 and you dont care to consider any evidence of it. Fine. Enjoy your bubbles.


You posted a bunch of random crap that all circles back to the same source (Bacques) who is known to have either A) horribly manipulate data to prove a non existent point or B) did half ass research. Did you even watch the video? Mark Felton doesn't just put out BS, but he does say exactly what everyone else has said to refute your claims. And yes bad shot happened in Europe. No getting around that, but mostly due to Europe just being freed from the Nazis and having zero infrastructure to feed liberated nations much less former Wehrmacht or German civilians. Yes people died in camps. Yes they were pretty bad, but they weren't Auschwitz and their sole purpose wasn't to exterminate former German Soldiers. You're the one who needs to come out of their bubble and face reality and facts.
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aTmAg
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In reply to cbr • 3:04p, 4/3/21
AG
cbr said:
Im not wasting any more time arguing with irrational people on this. Im the only one here that poster any links.

I get it. You dont believe bad **** happened in germany after ww2 and you dont care to consider any evidence of it. Fine. Enjoy your bubbles.
Your "evidence" was addressed by people on this thread. Can you not read?
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agracer
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In reply to cbr • 10:41a, 4/26/21
AG
cbr said:
Im not wasting any more time arguing with irrational people on this. Im the only one here that poster any links.

I get it. You dont believe bad **** happened in germany after ww2 and you dont care to consider any evidence of it. Fine. Enjoy your bubbles.
. Reading comprehension is not your friend.
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FTACo88-FDT24dad
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In reply to Old RV Ag • 8:20p, 4/26/21
AG
Thank you sir for your service and your sacrifice and the sacrifices your family assuredly made. We are honored to have you in this forum.
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Aggie1205
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2:51p, 7/14/22
AG


Maybe this could help. Mark Felton discusses the Rhine Meadows camps.

EDIT: Just noticed it was already posted. Only had read first page.
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Eliminatus
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In reply to cbr • 1:44p, 7/16/22
AG
cbr said:
i let this get under my skin, so at the cost of some productivity, here is some quick and easy finds in just 5 minutes;

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/852167.After_the_Reich

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rheinwiesenlager

http://whale.to/b/starvation_of_germans.html

https://civilianmilitaryintelligencegroup.com/21788/eisenhowers-death-camps

and before we get more emotional rejections here, let's not forget that 25 years earlier the Allies absolutely, uncontrovertably did intentionally starve germany after ww1l.





Well, now gonna need sources on this "fact" as well. I have Other Losses on the way, the book that that blog you posted referenced. Also had After the Reich on the way even before I read this but got lost in the mail. Bummed about that.

From glancing through this stuff, I truly see just a pattern of very wild interpretation that is extremely debatable. I'll read up on it and get back to y'all.
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Eliminatus
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1:59p, 7/16/22
AG
NVM. Just watched that Felton video. He just flat out drug his nutsack all over Bach's face. I then confirmed the supply situation myself after that.

Cancelled that book order.

Seems we lost another one to wild and reactionary and false revisionist history. More and more every day it seems...

Also just realized this thread is old as hell.
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