If you really want to make an impact.. two M2s and a 120mm mortar team. 1200 meters of death. Nothing would get close to the walls.
Remember The Alamo: Hypothetical Time Travel
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Rabid, the M2's would be more effective atop the Cenotaph. I would put rifle teams at the Emily Morgan & Menger Hotels to cover the north and south walls. Another team at Ripley's Believe It Or Not! Odditorium to cover the west approach. A Riverine (PBR) would have prevented any river crossings.
What was the range of Mexican cannon of the time? If they could reach to 600 yards, would they still be accurate and effective?
1000 yards or better. Well beyond the 600 yd range. I wouldn't expect the best accuracy at that distance.CanyonAg77 said:
What was the range of Mexican cannon of the time? If they could reach to 600 yards, would they still be accurate and effective?
Remember, it's not just 4 guys by themselves. My hypothetical premise is 4 guys plus the 183 soldiers that were armed normally, so 187 Texan fighters!CanyonAg77 said:Back to my point. If you have four guys vs. 1,800 Mexicans already at the walls, they are in trouble.Presley OBannons Sword said:The Taliban doesn't fight with muskets.Rabid Cougar said:
Four M-4s at each corner? They place still falls. One the Mexicans get within musket range, and they would, it's pretty much over. There are numerous instances in Afghanistan were SF teams get pinned down by Taliban and it it were not for air support and QRF they get wiped out.
If you start picking off officers, NCOs and artillery at 300 yards,on February 23rd, it's a different story.
I like this thread... but if we are going back in time to add stuff.... how about
Just a little levity, but the idea of a difference maker at the Alamo is fascinating.
Just a little levity, but the idea of a difference maker at the Alamo is fascinating.
1 AH-64 would have been nice.
What about the opposite? You bring a bunch of well trained longbowmen into the future. Maybe even some catapults. The Mexicans weren't exactly well armored.
musket range: 50 yards
longbow range: 200 yards
musket rate of fire: 2-3 rounds per minute
Longbow rate: 6 per minute
musket range: 50 yards
longbow range: 200 yards
musket rate of fire: 2-3 rounds per minute
Longbow rate: 6 per minute
The Alamo Episode 13 in 1966
That show always pissed me off. Episode, after episode, they're just about to chnage history, when, SURPRISE!, they get whisked off to another time.Cen-Tex said:
Every Texian boy asks this same question of himself when he gets his first gun, right? I remember when I got my first rifle, a .243, thinking "if only I had been at the Alamo..."
Why not send a nuclear powered aircraft carrier with a fully equipped carrier air wing back to December 6, 1941, and let's see if Pearl Harbor happens or not.
Sounds like a great idea for a movie. I'll be doing a final countdown until it gets made.Cinco Ranch Aggie said:
Why not send a nuclear powered aircraft carrier with a fully equipped carrier air wing back to December 6, 1941, and let's see if Pearl Harbor happens or not.
Okay here is one for you....how about transporting Hood's Texas Brigade back to the Alamo.
Rabid Cougar said:
Okay here is one for you....how about transporting Hood's Texas Brigade back to the Alamo.
Based on numbers alone the war would have likely ended or Santa Anna never would have attacked.
How about just Audie Murphy manning the machine gun of a burning Tank Destroyer?
Obviously numerous examples of the impact of .58 cal rifles on massed infantry assaults against field works in the ACW. Supporting 12 lb. Napoleons would have had even a greater impact.Stive said:Rabid Cougar said:
Okay here is one for you....how about transporting Hood's Texas Brigade back to the Alamo.
Based on numbers alone the war would have likely ended or Santa Anna never would have attacked.
You show up at the Alamo. It's dark and you go to bed. The Mexicans attack before dawn. In the dark light you can't find your F-in magazines.
Yes but you have two dudes with nods and 240 in watch towers every 100 meters with three meters of Hescos topped by a meter of razor wire between you and the bad guys and a ballon high overhead. No one gets close to you as you sleep soundly in your BHut or hard structure. The eye in the sky sees everything!
aalan94 said:
You show up at the Alamo. It's dark and you go to bed. The Mexicans attack before dawn. In the dark light you can't find your F-in magazines.
That's just piss poor for four modern infantrymen. You should be trained to know how to load, fire and clear your weapon by feel alone with as much as you've trained on it. Doesn't matter if it's day or night. Your kit is set up for you, so you just grab and go. Several FOBs and COPs I was on we're blackout meaning no lights at night unless a redlight. You went to bed with your kit and rifle in the same place every night. And if things were predicted to get especially bad, well you'd sleep with that stuff on.
Rabid Cougar said:
Yes but you have two dudes with nods and 240 in watch towers every 100 meters with three meters of Hescos topped by a meter of razor wire between you and the bad guys and a ballon high overhead. No one gets close to you as you sleep soundly in your BHut or hard structure. The eye in the sky sees everything!
That damn balloon at Wright.
I think everyone is overlooking that the 4 new guys would know what time and date the assault begins. Santa Anna stopped the bombardment and the Texans were getting the first full night of sleep they had had in 2 weeks...
Assuming you wake everyone up at 4 am on 3/6/36, re-position the defenders as needed, 4 new guys with future boom-sticks turn the tide of the battle.
Assuming you wake everyone up at 4 am on 3/6/36, re-position the defenders as needed, 4 new guys with future boom-sticks turn the tide of the battle.
Depending on how "cultured" these troops are that may be the case. I doubt any non-Texan 18-25 year old would know. Hell, I have my doubts on what a kid now days would know going through Texas public schools. Texas History was a class in 7th grade and not touched on again during the rest of middle school/high school careers
American troopers from 2018 might be more inclined to side with Santa Anna, is that what you're saying?
Not exactly. I have no doubts they'd fight for the Texians. strictly speaking from my own experiences, American combat troops don't mind getting into a fight. Just sort of point and let loose. I'm just doubting they would know when and how the final assault took place in order to maximize their defensively capabilities.
I second the thought of not minding getting into a fight. Lord help you if you start one with them.JABQ04 said:
Not exactly. I have no doubts they'd fight for the Texians. strictly speaking from my own experiences, American combat troops don't mind getting into a fight. Just sort of point and let loose. I'm just doubting they would know when and how the final assault took place in order to maximize their defensively capabilities.
I love the participation and all of these caveats and different scenarios!
I would say that the 4 traveling back in time do indeed know of the morning attack time and thus would properly be positioned.
Well done Texags users!
I would say that the 4 traveling back in time do indeed know of the morning attack time and thus would properly be positioned.
Well done Texags users!
My comment was a joke on the lack of education of many, coupled with the SJW mis-education of many.
Heck, there are people who think Travis and Bowie had it coming because they were slave owners.
Throw a kid from the Northeast or California into the Alamo with no context, and he might have a hard time deciding what side to join.
Heck, there are people who think Travis and Bowie had it coming because they were slave owners.
Throw a kid from the Northeast or California into the Alamo with no context, and he might have a hard time deciding what side to join.
I recently watched Turn on Netflix (about the spy ring during the American Revolution, if you haven't seen it). And I was thinking the same thing, watching them loading muskets and just standing, waiting to be shot. A single modern rifle with a scope could have decimated the English army. Smokeless powder, shooting from 3-400 yards away, you could take out a dozen officers a day, likely take out any patrol that comes to investigate the gun's report.
Regarding the Alamo, considering the attack came when most defenders were asleep, just waking everyone up and having them manning the walls and cannons would make a big difference. Even 4 M16s with 210rds a piece, showing up just before the attack, you wouldn't get all rounds on target fast enough to stop the swarm of Mexicans. Would certainly do a lot of damage, and likely cripple the Mexican army.
What I always wondered was what if Fannin had made it to the Alamo. A total of 600 defenders manning the Alamo would've evened things out a bit.
Regarding the Alamo, considering the attack came when most defenders were asleep, just waking everyone up and having them manning the walls and cannons would make a big difference. Even 4 M16s with 210rds a piece, showing up just before the attack, you wouldn't get all rounds on target fast enough to stop the swarm of Mexicans. Would certainly do a lot of damage, and likely cripple the Mexican army.
What I always wondered was what if Fannin had made it to the Alamo. A total of 600 defenders manning the Alamo would've evened things out a bit.
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I have an Alamo question....was the lore of the Alamo a big deal before the Wayne movie? I know interest really took off afterwards, but what about before?.
Aust Ag said:
I have an Alamo question....was the lore of the Alamo a big deal before the Wayne movie? I know interest really took off afterwards, but what about before?.
As I understand it was pretty much a "Texas" thing until the '50s. Disney's Davy Crockett: King of the Wild Frontier is what really sent it to a nation wide frenzy. My dad tells it that every kid had a coonskin hat and every house was a fort to fight Indians or the Alamo.
I'll credit him showing us that on VHS when I was 6 or 7 to be what really sparked my interest in not only the Alamo but history in general
Before then, I would say the show "Davy Crockett, King of the Wild Frontier" (1954-55) did as much or more to fire up a kids passion about the Alamo as the Wayne movie in 1960. Actor Fess Parker became a Hollywood icon with kids after Walt Disney aired the 3-episode series. In the 1950's, if you were lucky enough to have a TV in the house, just about everyone tuned into ABC's The Wonderful World of Disney on Sunday evenings. Never will forget the closing scene of the show where Davy is swinging his musket, 'Old Betsy' on top of the Alamo wall as the Mexicans are flooding the compound. Seemed like all the boys in the neighborhood knew the words to "The Ballad of Davy Crockett" by the Wellingtons.Aust Ag said:
I have an Alamo question....was the lore of the Alamo a big deal before the Wayne movie? I know interest really took off afterwards, but what about before?.
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