I feel self-conscious just having a hardback copy of The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich on my bookshelf because of the huge, prominent swastika on the spine.

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I feel self-conscious just having a hardback copy of The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich on my bookshelf because of the huge, prominent swastika on the spine.

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Classic text right there.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." George Santayana

......so press on collecting.

From years of studying, I personally believe that every soldier in the Wehrmacht was very aware of their government being anti-Semitic and of various anti-Semites in the ranks. Just as we have people varying in devotion to causes in today's society, I think that some soldiers cared a lot about the political motives and some cared not at all.

As far as how they dealt with civilians and POWs, I believe that the policy was set and defined by the leadership early on in the war (in Poland/France). Further on, through example, new soldiers fighting on the eastern front began to think that burning down villages and homes was acceptable practice.

"I cannot question my new unit's process; I just got here! This must be the norm!"

This thought process became a new way of thinking among the men, and no officers were willing to pipe up to change it. Right or wrong, it was just how they decided to conduct business.

Have you read Hitler's Jewish Soldiers yet?

You might change your mind on some of that. By Mark Rigg out of Harvard I think.

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As long as you remember that the German military, all of it, was very political and absolutely involved in the Holocaust

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That's untrue. Were they all ultimately fighting under the banner of an evil regime. Yes. Were all German soldiers politically Nazis? No. Did all German soldiers commit war crimes associated with the Holocaust? No.

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My point here is that the all parts of the German military during the Nazi regime were political. The Heer, Luftwaffe, Kreigsmarine along with every other part (police battalions, SS, support units), were used as political instruments. Meaning that you can't pick out one part and say it wasn't part of Nazi politics because everything was connected. As Clausewitz wrote, war is an extension of politics and the Nazi weltanschauung (world view) revolved around war.

No part was "clean" of the crimes of the National Socialist regime. I'm not saying all soldiers were Nazis, but they all saw or participated in war crimes (Holocaust and/or others). There are absolutely varying degrees of culpability, but the vast majority played a part. Just read the literature. Wolfram Wette has a great book on the myth of the clean Wehrmacht you ought to check out.

There was a famous exhibit in Germany organized by the Hamburg Institute for Social Research in the 1990s that focused on the war crimes of the Wehrmacht. This was really controversial in Germany because many people had clung to the idea of a clean Wehrmacht for so long that it had become part of the popular narrative. The American government is partly to blame for this. During the rearmament debates of the early 1950s, one of the major issues facing the US and the FRG was the image and legacy of the German soldier (for obvious reasons). So to help "clean" the German soldier so West Germany could rearm and help with the defense of Europe, Eisenhower made a public statement in Frankfurt in 1951 while he was Supreme Allied Commander in Europe (SACEUR). He basically said what many seem to think, the majority of German soldiers and officers did their duty honorably and should not be lumped in with the criminals. Germans embraced this and the myth was born.

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I've done plenty of research on all of this and I understand what you're saying, but go back and re-read that original statement of yours that I was responding to. It's misleading because it is too black and white and too simplistic. The "Clean Wehrmacht Myth" is no more untrue than the "Every German Soldier Was An Evil Nazi Myth". Since these forces were MASSIVE there were plenty of German soldiers who can tell you in all truth that what they did was military operations against enemy objectives, not participating in any war crimes. Many thousands of people can legitimately make that claim and do not deserve to be labeled war criminals just for the sake of your overly simplistic judgement. As I mentioned above, trying to vilify or lionize the entire German armed forces of WWII is dumb. They were all fighting for the wrong side, but not all of them were engaged in war crimes on behalf of that regime. The problem was that the Wehrmacht in general, and especially in some units, and especially in the East, tended to be permissive of brutal behavior at times, there wasn't a lot to discourage it. Think of the behavior of some of our troops in Vietnam and Iraq/Afghanistan...and that was with a command that strongly discouraged anything even approaching war crimes. But still, many individual German soldiers, especially those who were devoutly Lutheran or had a stronger moral compass, would not have participated in war crimes. What you're saying isn't entirely untrue, you're just making too broad of generalizations.

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My original statement was in reference to the German military as an institution. Much like how the OP is collecting items from the German military in general and not from specific individuals. As I stated earlier, there are varying degrees of culpability. However I stand by my assertion that all members of the German military saw or participated in war crimes (this includes the Holocaust).

You wrote that the Wehrmacht "...tended to be permissive of brutal behavior at times..." Really? Have you read Omar Bartov's work or Jrgen Frster's or Ian Kershaw's or Richard Evans'? The brutality was institutionalized.

The Commissar Order specifically called for the execution of thousands of political commissars in Red Army who were captured by the Germans. The "Guidelines for the Conduct of the Troops in Russia" called for the "ruthless and vigorous measures against Bolshevik inciters, guerrillas, saboteurs, Jews, and the complete elimination of all active and passive resistance." (Frster, 1989, pg. 500)

One Wehrmacht General told his troops "The objective of this battle must be the demolition of present-day Russia and must therefore be conducted with unprecedented severity. Every military action must be guided in planning and execution by an iron resolution to exterminate the enemy remorselessly and totally. In particular, no adherents of the contemporary Russian Bolshevik system are to be spared." (Frster, 1989, pg. 500)

Omar Bartov wrote in his book The Eastern Front "the commander of the 12th Infantry Division sent out a directive saying "the carrying of information is mostly done by youngsters in the ages of 11-14" and that "as the Russian is more afraid of the truncheon than of weapons, flogging is the most advisable measure for interrogation."" (Bartov, 2001, pg. 49)

To claim that the Wehrmacht and the vast, vast majority of the people in it were complicit in war crimes is not an overly simplistic judgement or a broad generalization. It's a fact on which historians of the National Socialist regime and the Second World War in Europe agree.

Bartov's work makes it clear that the Wehrmacht was "barbarized" by the effort to create a lebensraum in the East. Ian Kershaw wrote "Most of their three million men, from generals to ordinary soldiers, helped exterminate captured Slav soldiers and civilians. This was sometimes cold and deliberate murder of individuals (as with Jews), sometimes generalised brutality and neglect. ... German soldiers' letters and memoirs reveal their terrible reasoning: Slavs were 'the Asiatic-Bolshevik' horde, an inferior but threatening race. Only a minority of officers and men were Nazi members." (Kershaw, 1997, pg. 150).

Richard J. Evans argued that the Wehrmacht fought a genocidal war of "extreme brutality and barbarism" from the very beginning of the war against the Soviet Union. (Evans, 1989, pg. 59).

The facts are clear on this. I stand by my original statement, the German military, all of it, was very political and absolutely involved in the Holocaust (and other war crimes).

Granted that you intend it, but "all" covers a lot of ground; by definition it allows no exceptions. I have trouble getting my mind around that.

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In short I'd say collect what you want. As long as the focus is on the historical nature of the items then there is no harm at all. Now, if someone ends up with an admiration for the National Socialist regime and collects items like fan memorabilia, then they have crossed the line.

For example, Prof. Arnold Krammer from the history department at A&M has a huge collection of odds and ends from the Nazi regime including lots of militaria. He believes it is important to be able to show students real things from the period that they can touch and handle for themselves. This helps students connect with something that is real rather than just listen to his lecture or read it in a book. However none of the many items in his collection are treated as "special" or "rare" even though many are hard to find. Prof. Krammer simply sees them as one would a tool in a workshop, they are meant to be used in the classroom. He once told me that he had a student in his Nazi Germany class some years ago who wore an SS belt buckle everyday. When Prof. Krammer asked him why, the student justified having something from the SS as part of his daily wardrobe because "it's rare." Prof. Krammer responded by pulling out a bag full of buckles from the Nazi regime he had in a drawer and dumped it on his desk. He told the student these items weren't that rare and regardless, it was ridiculous to wear something like that because it looked like you were a fan of the SS and the Nazis. And if that was the case, then the student had a serious problem.

As long as you remember that the German military, all of it, was very political and absolutely involved in the Holocaust and treat items related to it judiciously, then you are fine.

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I love Dr. Krammer.

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One of my family's most cherished heirlooms is my great-grandfathers favorite saddle. He had it custom made in the early 1900's and had a swastika embossed on the back of the cantle because back before the Nazis the swastika was considered a symbol of good luck.
Because it had the swastika on it the saddle stayed tucked away in the back of the saddle shed for decades until my uncle cleaned it up and put it on display in his den. He has to explain the reason for the swastika to just about everyone who goes in his den.

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Of a similar nature, my grandfather (my mom is French) had a mustache very similar to Hitler's. It was the style at the time.

We have a portrait of him in my parents house. A friend, walking through the house one day, asked me why we had a picture of Hitler in the den.... Ouch. Good thing my mom didn't hear. They had to evacuate when she was 5, leaving everything they owned behind. My grandfather was in the French underground and would be gone for weeks at a time. The Nazi's came and took the old man who lived behind them to a concentration camp.

When the American troops came through and liberated Soissons, she was put on a white horse and sent to bring them flowers. They gave her chili in return.

The man even appropriated one of the most common mustache styles of the time.

I say collect every German and/or Nazi item you can find and lay your hands on.

" facts are clear on this. I stand by my original statement, the German military, all of it, was very political and absolutely involved in the Holocaust (and other war crimes)." I agree.

It kinda concerning when we see more and more inquiries like the OP's. I hear and read often stuff like " is it ok to still say { fill in the blank} can we still do whatever ....... On and on.
We seem to be constantly pandering to some new found sensitivity or self appointed "outrage oberfuerher" .
Collect and enjoy what you want .
Which reminds me....
July 3rd. Anniversary of the High watermark of the Confederacy" got to go outside and raise the Stars And Bars on the flagpole as has been my custom for years.

I'be been collecting WWII memorabilia, mainly German & US, since I was 9 years old. No need to stop now, especially if its to appease the PC crowd.


Question for you, OP:

Did someone say something to you about your hobby? Or are you just curious what TA thought?



Post Script: You wouldn't happen to have a chained SS parade dagger laying around, would ya...?!

No

Post some pictures of your collection!