Purchasing a Specialty Car with A Carfax Ding - Diminished Value?

1,268 Views | 9 Replies | Last: 2 mo ago by LOYAL AG
Roger350
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AG
TLDR Warning.

Looking at a 2016 ATS-V for sale on an ATS FB group. It is a Sedan with the 6sp with 20k miles and only a tune and not heavily modded, so a rare combination. Car is probably between KBB Excellent and Very Good. Asking price is $5.5k over KBB Excellent top dollar. Seller has been somewhat reluctant to give full information about its history. When I point blank asked about the car's history, if it had a clean Carfax, any mechanical issues, etc. he just said it was a super clean and well cared for car. When I asked if it was a track toy or a Sunday cruise machine he said he did "a couple track days" when he first got it. Overall, the guy has just put off a vibe of reluctance to be fully upfront about the details. So I pull a Carfax before driving 2.5 hours to go see it, and it has "Minor Damage" noted in 2023, and a bunch of failed emissions test in 2022. So I send him the report and ask for details, and he gives me what sounds like a BS story about slowly riding up on a curve and denting a fender, and thus replacing the dented fender. But then he didn't have any pictures of the damage to share. The emissions deal was a plausible story about the tune and doing a battery reset and then repeatedly failing until the cycles reset which I totally believed. The overall sketchy vibe made me decide not to go see the car. Who doesn't keep pictures of car damage from a year ago on their special car? I also figured with the damage on the Carfax, and the fact that the replaced fender will likely not fade at the same rate as the rest of the car's panels, I just figured I would not likely be willing to pay his price.

So we keep conversing, because despite the sketchiness, I am still somewhat interested in the car, but not at his asking price. He does eventually produce pictures of the fender damage, and it appears he was being honest about the source / extent of the damage. It was a slow speed incident with a curb that only did cosmetic damage.

I make an offer I admitted was lower than he would likely entertain, halfway between the KBB top dollar for Excellent and Very Good. Told him it wasn't personal, but regardless of the minor nature of the incident, the Carfax report wasn't going to go away, and there was, in my opinion, a hit on the value due to it.

He contends that the Carfax report is meaningless in the value equation because it was minor damage that he had fixed. He said he arrived at his price based on polling users on various ATS forums / Sites and it is a special car, an ATS-V. (I think I know he did not tell his forum buddies about the replaced fender when he was asking for their thoughts on his car's value).

I have moved on, but would like the board's opinion on the diminished value from a blemish on the Carfax, and the potential color matching issues down the road. It could have a bad match now, I haven't seen it in person and I have no eye for mismatched panels.

Is this car immune to Carfax blemishes? I mean value is subjective and is only real when it matches what someone is willing to pay today. I see his side as a seller, but are their buyers that will blindly ignore the presence of the Carfax ding?
Mookie
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AG
For a minor on that type of car that is easily justified, yeah it is. Minors mostly affect the demand for the car, not directly its value. The value is only affected by the decrease in demand. For a 2023 Camry, there are so many out there that demand for the one with a wreck is so much lower it is just worth less. For a car like yours with limited choices, it has much less of an impact.
Roger350
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AG
That makes perfect sense.

Ultimately, if this guy had been more forthright from the begining I'd probably have come close to his asking price and bought the car, but his reluctance to give me information, to protect his price, just rubbed me the wrong way. I'd rather he told me about all the warts and then said that's the history, this is my price, and told me he was not open to negotiation because of what the car is. Trying to hide behind vague answers and hoping I didn't spend $3 to get a Carfax killed it for me. Honesty matters once you're beyond a $10k throw-away car you expect to have problems.
JamesPShelley
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Carmax is not entirely credible. I wouldn't even consider, not for one moment, the credibility of a Carfax report.Too much missing information. If I were interested in a vehicle I'd be more interested in a PPI.

Carmax. What a scam.

Darby
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In April I purchased a rare Shelby Cobra Mustang

The original owner bought it new, owned it for 4 years, put about 7500 miles on it and traded it in to a non-Ford dealer for another performance sports car. I was to be the 2nd owner

It was the only car of it's year and type for sale in the state of Texas that I could find, so I was super disappointed when the Carfax showed minor damage (which the dealer was up front about) I initially lost all interest in the purchase

However the dealer assured me it was a minor accident and no big deal, and the car was priced in consideration of the report. So I did a deep dive with the manufacturer and found out the following. The original owner took delivery on a Friday. The very NEXT day, the car was backed into on the right rear QP in a parking lot. (Can you imagine? Ugh!) It was more of a swipe/scrape than a collision and the right rear QP had minor paint/body damage as well as the right rear wheel. The dealer was able to show me pictures of the original damage and told me who performed the repair. They actually allowed me to take the vehicle to it's manufacturing dealership and I paid them to inspect the car. The inspection came back perfect with no damage to the structure, etc. I bought the car and I couldn't be happier with it. Will I take a small hit when I sell it? Probably. But I didn't buy the car for an investment. I bought it to drive and have fun.

Just my story I wanted to share with you as you consider your purchase

Roger350
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AG
OK' that's your take, but the Carfax was indeed accurate on this vehicle, and I checked it, the cheaper Car-Check that cars.com listings often use instead, and several of the free VIN reports. Carfax was the only one that showed this damage or the emissions fails. Worth $3 I paid through Etsy. PPI is a great resource if you have a trusted shop that specializes in the marque, not ideal in an unfamiliar city 2.5 hours away and on a private party transaction.
Roger350
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AG
Thanks for sharing. This is more what I would have expected, priced according to the fact that body work was performed. Your car, the damage was more widespread, but still 100% not a structural concern since it was a parking lot incident.

I have no problem with the repaired minor damage on this ATS-V from a structural standpoint, and frankly am more worried about how many missed shifts the guy had on track during those "couple of track days" which is probably 12 weekends at MSRH which appears to be a 30 minute ride from his house...My beef is not accounting for it at all in the price, and moreso the attempt to not disclose it.

Who knows, I may still try and purchase the car. I was just wanting to see how unreasonable I was being.

If I ever lose my sanity and decide to sell my EVO I will show any prospective buyers all my maintenance records that clearly highlight everything I have ever done to the car preparing it for the 20+ track weekends I've run at MSRC, hell I'll show them go-pro video of the events. Maybe I just lean towards full disclosure for piece of mind as a seller, knowing I tried to relay every piece of data available to a prospective buyer rather than being vague and shifty. Maybe it's an Aggie Code of Honor thing, or just being raised right...
JamesPShelley
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Roger350 said:

OK' that's your take, but the Carfax was indeed accurate on this vehicle, and I checked it, the cheaper Car-Check that cars.com listings often use instead, and several of the free VIN reports. Carfax was the only one that showed this damage or the emissions fails. Worth $3 I paid through Etsy. PPI is a great resource if you have a trusted shop that specializes in the marque, not ideal in an unfamiliar city 2.5 hours away and on a private party transaction.
That's all fine and dandy. However, for all those entries where the mechanic reported/recorded to Carfaux... what about the work/maintenance performed by shade-tree mechanics who don't report/record? You know... stuff someone wouldn't want reported/recorded like frame damage... body damage... parts replaced with inferior products. You get my point.

It's the stuff that doesn't get reported that, for me, would overshadow any sense of satisfaction served by a $35 piece of paper.
Roger350
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AG
Thank you for your opinion on the accuracy of a $3 CarFax report. I'm sure there are many items not listed on said report, but the OP was about what actually was on the report and was reluctantly confirmed by the owner. The OP did not ask if a clean CarFax should be trusted as gospel and utilized as the only means of verifying the history of a vehicle before purchase.

Have a great day.
LOYAL AG
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AG
At the very worst car fax gives you 80% of the car's history while not buying it means you have exactly what the seller wants you to know. Even at $35 for the purchase OP was contemplating that seems like a good trade if it helps avoid something substantial. It doesn't have to be perfect to be better than the alternative.
A fearful society is a compliant society. That's why Democrats and criminals prefer their victims to be unarmed. Gun Control is not about guns, it's about control.
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