How would you rank based on dependability? 2020 or newer

- Wagoneer
- Land Rover Defender
- Toyota Sequoia
- GMC Yukon
- Chevy Tahoe

I would prefer the Defender, but have heard one of two stories with Land Rover. In the shop or bullet proof through ownership. Is this the case with the new Defender? Same for Wagoneer as well or is it slated to be same as other Chrysler products?

Basically need someone to talk me out of going with LR because I love the look 10x more than the others.

All somewhere underneath an Expedition, but depends on your need.

For needing 3 true rows, it'd be GM, Toyota, Chrysler, LR.
For big vehicle, but don't use the 3rd row, it'd be Toyota, GM, Chrysler, LR.

Dependability? Sequoia and it's not even close.

This. Sequoia 5.7 is a tank

I'll be the bad influence and say just get the Defender if that's what you really want, but I'd keep it under warranty. IMO, all of the new cars are prone to little gremlins, so might as well enjoy what you're driving. Exception is the prior gen Sequoia, however that thing is a dinosaur and the interior is poor. One data point - my MIL's range rover has been totally fine for ~2 years

txcincinnatus said:

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I'll be the bad influence and say just get the Defender if that's what you really want, but I'd keep it under warranty. IMO, all of the new cars are prone to little gremlins, so might as well enjoy what you're driving. Exception is the prior gen Sequoia, however that thing is a dinosaur and the interior is poor. One data point - my MIL's range rover has been totally fine for ~2 years

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This is my exact thought. Don't they all have their flaws and has LR not improved at all in reliability? I see people poo all over it and then you hear stories like your MIL who never experience anything

I'd say Sequoia (or LX570) but I'm a Toyota homer.

Interesting question but it may be hard to compare.

Wagoneer - 2023 (all but base model) has the new Hurricane twin turbo engine instead of the 20 year old hemi. Other than some UConnect concerns, it seems like the higher end versions (Series III and GW) have tech that gets trippy.

Land Rover Defender - is a land rover

Sequoia - new model with new drivetrain for the vehicle so from 2020-2023 you're comparing two completely different vehicles. Also, despite Toyota's reliability halo, there was a spate of sequoias that were not so great (2001-2008 I think). But, there's always been a toyota of some form in my life and the quality has never been the issue.

Yukon/Tahoe - You'll have to narrow this down to the 5.3, 6.2 or the 3.0 diesel. While the diesel seems to get high marks for long term engine use, I've seen a lot of complaints online about parts ancillary to the actual engine. Anecdotally, I know a bunch of folks with vehicles that have the 5.3 and 6.2 and that's never their problem. Its the quality of the interior parts and pieces that they struggle with. And that seems to be the case more with the tahoes.

Somebody on this board had a good point awhile back that GM has been making large SUVs for a long time and they really do excel at that.

Not to derail - anybody with Wagoneers want to share their opinions on any issues they've had?

2020-2022 Sequoia is far and away the most reliable/dependable option on your list.

And third row room in that range of Sequoia is great, not sure what you're talking about.

Seqouia
Yukon
Tahoe

I'd consider no others

Appreciate the thorough response.

Not derailing at all, I would like personal feedback on any of the above specifically New Defenders, Wagoneers, and Sequoias.

Sequoia had the same model from 2009-2022. They had plenty of time to work out any kinks. I have a 2016 with 135k miles on it. Thing is a tank. 5.7L V8 is a beast. Tows a travel trailer like it's not there. 4x4 system shares design with Land Cruiser. Has a center differential, so can operate on road in 4x4 for rainy/slick conditions. I expect to get 300k+ miles on it. Has independent rear suspension, so third row is super roomy and can fot adults. Plenty of room to haul stuff. Absolutely love it.

My Defender prospective: I've got a 1997 Defender 110 that has been pretty much bulletproof. The 300tdi engine won't get you anywhere quickly, but is steady and has been solid. That said, I completely agree that they can be hit or miss otherwise, especially beginning with the later 1998 introduction of the td5. As for the new ones, frankly I don't care for how they look (just my opinion). If you like the way it looks, get it! It's great to gather opinions, but you're the one buying and driving it. Just do what was already said and keep it under warranty.

Honda Odyssey

First gen wagoneer owner here. Series 3 with the 5.7L hemi

Have enjoyed the car thus far and worked out, I think a few of the gremlins. All covered under warranty.

Key is having a wagoneer certified service near you. First 6 oil changes and tire rotations are free. They will pick it up and drop it off for you, with a wash and tank of gas.

Lots of software updates the last couple times to the dealer. Had to replace the lift gate - latch was malfunctioning.

Since it was first gen, I bought the 6 year 100k everything warranty. Never know and I HATE paying for car fixes below 100k miles. Peace of mind.

We were in the market for a Denali - nowhere to be found and wagoneers are on lots. You can probably get a good deal on one in Texas.

Options are a bit wonky and they just switched them up on the 2023s.

We have the series 3 AWD with all options except the 360 cam (really dislike not having this).

Air suspension is cool for entry/exit and lifting it when pulling up to the valet (lol kidding).

McIntosh speaker system is very clear and nice. Interior blows the other vehicles in this class away.

Some people complain about the air vents in the back being on the pillar and not ceiling.

Triple pane moonroof is cool. 3rd row reclines. More storage behind 3rd row than ALL competitors.

We get about 17mpg. Mostly city driving. 5.7 has plenty of getup vs the 5.3 GM. Test drove the 5.3 in a suburban and it felt like a go kart engine.

For as big as it is, it drives very smooth. My father has a 3.0 diesel Denali and while I love its highway torque, it feels like you're driving a tank. Wagoneer feels much smaller when driving than it is. My wife likes that.

They're continually improving it so I expect newer generations to have kinks worked out.

Answer is Toyota or Honda, exactly like Scotty Kilmer or CarNut would tell you on YouTube.

aggiepaintrain said:

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Seqouia
Yukon
Tahoe

I'd consider no others

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might throw the Land Cruiser into the mix if you don't consistently need a third row

stevopike said:

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might throw the Land Cruiser into the mix if you don't consistently need a third row

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I would love the LX or Land Cruiser, but cost is a little higher. Dependability is 100% there, but idea of paying 70-80k for a 3-5 year old car seems wild.

AnyOtherName said:

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stevopike said:

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might throw the Land Cruiser into the mix if you don't consistently need a third row

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I would love the LX or Land Cruiser, but cost is a little higher. Dependability is 100% there, but idea of paying 70-80k for a 3-5 year old car seems wild.

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Old dude I bought mine from got a 2020 w/ 8K miles for $105. I need to start saving.

The couple that drove mine down from N Texas (PO was friend's father in law) got a 2019 LX last week for the wife. My 2011 convinced them on their Suburban replacement.

AnyOtherName said:

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stevopike said:

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might throw the Land Cruiser into the mix if you don't consistently need a third row

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I would love the LX or Land Cruiser, but cost is a little higher. Dependability is 100% there, but idea of paying 70-80k for a 3-5 year old car seems wild.

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I think your budget and what you actually need this for would be helpful...

That can help you make a call.

This board will tell you to buy a damn minivan every time or only Japanese made. In some cases, it's warranted but also sometimes joining the group-think.

For instance... an older Sequoia may be bullet proof, but are you wanting something with updated tech? the interior on those things is a decade + old.

The new ones have a solid rear axle (maybe you want that?) but then consider that the storage and third row are junk compared to the next gen tahoes/yukons/wagoneer.

Are you looking for something to needs to go offroad or is this just a grocery getter and occasional use of the third row?

Have you considered a Lexus LX460/470? Which Defender are looking at? the 2dr bronco/jeep equivalent or the long wheelbase 4dr full size?

I shared this on the Fred Hass thread, but the new Sequoia is really lacking in rear space (ChoppinDs mentioned that above). With the solid rear axle, hybrid battery storage and third row you get 49 cubic feet behind the second row. That's comparable with the Armada. But Tahoe/Expy/Wagoneer are all in the 70+ cubic feet range behind the second row. If that's a major concern just be aware.

I have a gx 470 which is an amazing truck in every single aspect but one - the tech. I have a friggin tape deck. The third row actually comes out giving me the same space as the new Sequoia. I can fit a good amount of stuff back there because the third row is removable It's also a big open box instead of the steps (battery deck/seat) in the back of the new Sequoia.

Minimal tech, essential
Made in Japan, essential

These are the top 2 concerns to be addressed.

We just got back from the Houston Auto show. If you really use all three rows and want to have any room leftover for storage, the Expedition/Expedition Max/Navigator/Navigator L (depending on budget and cargo room requirements) are hands down your best bets. The new Sequoia simply doesn't fill the same niche that the old one filled. The GM competitors just aren't as nice and don't have the same 3rd row room. The reliability of the Range Rover is just offensively bad. If you buy one, just admit that reliability is really of no concern to you.

I think storage space is bigger concern than 3rd row. 2nd kiddo coming (believe we are stopping here), also the type to do DIY around yard/house and the sedan isn't cutting it anymore.

I think a GX would be awesome if the tech was more advanced like you mentioned but also one less thing to worry about. (Interested to see the revamp if it is anything like the new LX and the timing of when it is going to happen)

I think it comes down to analysis paralysis since I am making such a change and amazed at how much these family haulers cost now.

The wagoneers are sweet but they are Chrysler, the defender is badass but they are LR, Yukons are nice but every soccer mom and dad in Dallas has one, the new sequoias are trading at 80/90k…haha

I'm leaning more towards the Odyssey every day.

The Palisade and the 2023 Honda Pilot are my top picks right now. They just don't have much inventory yet.

I've had my current Pilot since 2009 and love the extra cargo space the third row gives when it's folded down. The gas mileage is better than some of the bigger SUVs as well.

AnyOtherName said:

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I think storage space is bigger concern than 3rd row. 2nd kiddo coming (believe we are stopping here), also the type to do DIY around yard/house and the sedan isn't cutting it anymore.

I think a GX would be awesome if the tech was more advanced like you mentioned but also one less thing to worry about. (Interested to see the revamp if it is anything like the new LX and the timing of when it is going to happen)

I think it comes down to analysis paralysis since I am making such a change and amazed at how much these family haulers cost now.

The wagoneers are sweet but they are Chrysler, the defender is badass but they are LR, Yukons are nice but every soccer mom and dad in Dallas has one, the new sequoias are trading at 80/90k…haha

I'm leaning more towards the Odyssey every day.

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Mrs G Martin has owned multiple Odysseys and now has a full size LR Discovery. Her opinion is that unless money is no object, get the Odyssey. Even scheduled routine maintenance for a LR is expensive. I didn't mind driving the Odysseys that much, but I love the Discovery. The decision really comes down to whether you like the staff at the LR dealership. You'll get to know them. You may never need to set foot in the Honda dealership after buying an Odyssey.

2 kids and rarely use the 3rd row? Telluride or Pallisade. Order one now because you're going to have to wait a year.

We fully intended on buying one of those first. I could actually fit in the back row and captains in the 2nd row is sweet.

However, I succumbed. I was already in an old Tahoe and drove a Yukon growing up. Was just too hard to downsize for me. We then went and checked out the grand Cherokee L. Also nice and good room but just felt too small.

My "will it cut it?" Scenario was can I reasonably load up 4 - 5 people, luggage, skis, etc and go to Colorado in the winter?

We like to road trip, a lot. And having the space the pack everything you need (and a lot of what you don't) just can't be beat.

I think OP is the first person in history to use the term dependability and Land Rover together.

Carmakers need to get out of tech altogether. Its all obsolete after 5 yrs. Just give us a big ass screen to connect to and phones will handle all the particulars.

The more electronics and plastic, the more they will bust. It's laughable anyone ever considers a Land Rover / Jaguar. I love the looks too, but ask any mechanic why they love them.

The question is what practical vehicle … the answer is Toyota or Honda.

If you don't really need three rows, I just went through a similar process. After looking at the Defender, Land Cruiser, GX, Tahoe md Yukon, the hands down winner for me was a Jeep GC 4xe. Interior-wise it was the only one that came close to the Defender which was way ahead of everything else. Storage is good and the full electric covers my commute in full each day. It also has a Sport mode that gives you the immediate acceleration of the electric motor and the top end of the turbo 4 cyl. The downside is that they are expensive and currently not eligible to the hybrid tax credit due to price.

It's funny that there really does not seem to be a great choice, as we went through this recently. The tahoe/burban's that I have driven as rentals sucked. Had to gun them to get them to move, think this is throttle mapping. Interior build is also not great. The new Sequoia should be the clear answer, but they have had serious issues with the same drivetrain in the truck rollout. First time the Tundra has not made the consumer reports list. Also, the rear storage setup sucks bad. I would say the expedition seems like the best of the group, but does not seem like you get what you are paying for price wise. A used LX570 is what I tried to talk my wife into, but no dice.

What'd you get?

MTTANK said:

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It's funny that there really does not seem to be a great choice, as we went through this recently. The tahoe/burban's that I have driven as rentals sucked. Had to gun them to get them to move, think this is throttle mapping. Interior build is also not great. The new Sequoia should be the clear answer, but they have had serious issues with the same drivetrain in the truck rollout. First time the Tundra has not made the consumer reports list. Also, the rear storage setup sucks bad. I would say the expedition seems like the best of the group, but does not seem like you get what you are paying for price wise. A used LX570 is what I tried to talk my wife into, but no dice.

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Curious what you ended up with as well. Sounds like we are in the same boat.

Wife isn't a big fan of a used LX either. $60-70k for a 5 year pre-owned with 40-50k miles does not compute.