This will be a sedan purchase for me.
I've been considering the 4.6L Genesis, and the Inifiniti M.

From what I understand now, the 4.6L wont be out till November and people that are preordering are paying sticker (dumb). If I wait another year or so, we can all see what the market bears for used Genesises.

The only other thing I see is comparable is the Infiniti M. And from the reports back, its pretty damn reliable. Good crash test reviews and good reviews from Consumer Reports. There are tons of used ones out there and you can snatch a nice one for under 30K easy.

BTW, here are my parameters:
New or Used
Under 35K
Sedan
>250 HP (V8 a plus)
Rear Wheel Drive
Room Enough for 4 or 5, ample leg room to take customers out. (This rules out the Caddy CTS and INfiniti G).
American brand a plus but not a requirement.

Basically in the American lines, I am faced with a Town Car, Grand Marquis, Charger R/T, or 300C, and none of those really does much for me. The new Taurus is nice but FWD, as is the new Lincoln MKS...

I'm not in a hurry to make a move but I'm definitely shopping...
Discuss....

Interesting scenario....

I think the Genesis is far better looking than the rather plain and dull Infiniti M. I know the M is an excellent car but it is almost invisible on the road. The Nissan V8 is thirsty, isn't it?

A couple of other vehicles come to mind:

Used Lexus LS. New too much $$ but maybe you can stretch to a good quality used one.

New Lincoln MKS. Based on the Taurus chassis but much different. Huge interior. AWD version available. But the turbo isn't available yet so it might a bit sluggish. Initial reviews are solid if not outstanding.

Acura RL. No V8 but excellent luxury and ride quality. The RL is not a FWD car - is is AWD. A new model is coming out so there may be deals on the 2008.

I just don't like the looks of the Lexus GS. The BMW 5 is probably not roomy enough. And I think the 7 series is hideous.

BMW 7 series is a good value used. You could probably get a certified 2004/2005 V8 7 series for 35k.
Volvo S80 and the large Jaguars are dirt cheap used and are worth a look at. The certified models come with a full warranty for a couple of years.
Audi S8 is nice so is the VW Phaeton.

Infinit M is a nice car also, interior isnt as good as the European cars but drives well.

[This message has been edited by BaronVonAggie (edited 9/6/2008 11:39a).]

Thanks for the comments so far guys....

I REALLY like the Genesis, I've spent a little time behind the wheel, but at the end of the day, its still a Hyundai. I guess thats what people said about Hondas in the late 70s/Early 80s. I remember my mom had an 81 accord we got new. It was a terrible car. See what they build today?

Spice, If I got the M, I'd probably get the M35. My sister drives a 35, and the VQ35DE is a great engine. The revised one is even better. Alas, I would rather save 15K and get a used one with under 40K miles than drop money on a brand new one. M45 is not a requirement in my book, maybe more like a wish.

Love the MKS, but I want to see what happens as far as value and the 340 hp Twin force (aka EcoBoost) engine does. I really wish it was RWD, I hope this isnt another Continental. So far everything I have read seems to be good. You and I must be car nuts. I get 5 different car mags a month....Seems like they all review the same sets of cars every month.

On the Lexus LS, yes, they are lusty. I once promised myself that I'd never own a Japanese car, but the new LS460 seems to have steered away from the "me too" /boring styling. One of my customers has a 2008 LS460L that I have spent time driving, hacking the nav, and doing routine maintenance on. I have to say that this is probably the benchmark here. Unfortunately, I only like the LS460, and not the 06 and older LS430. So, if a LS460 is in my future, its going to have to be about a year before you see used LS460s on the market for something I can afford. These cars are surprisingly easy to work on.

Acura RL is a nice car, but I'm not a fan of any of Honda's products. Never have been. They make good cars, I just always felt like I was riding in a tin can, but thats just me.

The BMWs are nice but having worked on several of BMW's V8 engines, I would never own one. Replacing the common leaky valve cover gaskets is an all day affair and you neighbors think you're a sailor. Its been my experience with BMW and a lot of other car makers now, that they put so much freakin plastic under the hood of the car and on the underbelly for beauty/noise supression/highway economy, that when they get some age on them all the rubber and plastic pieces just disentegrate. The E38 BMW is one of my favorite cars, but I'd never own one because I can't afford to work on it.

My 87 Mercedes has 284,000 miles on it. At 300,000 miles, I will start seriously shopping for a replacement. This car has asked for nothing but fuel filters and oil changes. In a year, I put maybe 400-500 bucks in parts in it and 95% of the work is done by myself. But its starting to show its age cosmetically, sun fading on the hood and roof, but still looks good 10' away....



Baron, same thing with the BMW, Love em, but seems like a crap shoot with long term reliability. The Same thing with the Jags. The interior room is tight in them as well. I'm not a big guy, but I like spacious. Guess thats what happens when you drive mostly Crown Vics and Marauders your entire life.

The S80 is nice, but is wrong wheel drive and while generally reliable, they will nickle and dime you to death. Few bucks here, few bucks there etc.

I like the M, but it seems like everybody and their dog with some money either has a M, ES350, or a G35. Which isn't a bad thing, just an observation.

[This message has been edited by 1agswitchin4lanes (edited 9/6/2008 3:40p).]

1Ags - I agree with most of your comments but not sure about your view on Honda....the Acuras are very well put together and nicely finished. And the only Honda I have been in that I think felt "cheap" was my dad's 1975 Civic CVCC. The doors on my Ridgeline close like the ones on my Jaguar.

Spice, I'm sure Hondas have come a long way since I remember them. I'm sure in the past few years alone a lot of leaps and bounds have been made. I know they make a very good quality product, I just dont like the way they feel...Go figure.

I drove my friends 03 Accord EX the other day when we left dinner. I still felt it left a lot to be desired (granted it was a 4 Cyl). Then I drove my cousins 2006 Acura TL, I felt Like I was driving the Accord again (they share a lot of technology IIRC). I guess I like my cars to feel heavy and significant, but nimble when pushed. If you've driven a E38 BMW or W126 Mercedes, you know what I mean.

The Genesis looks really good to me. I have never understood the attraction to Lexus style wise but think this car looks similar but better. I have not done much research on this new car but from what little I know it seems to be a good choice.

Re: style. The Lexus GS is a "generic sleek" sedan. Beautifully finished but still too soft for its looks. The Lexus LS is distinctive and is just handsome. The Infiniti M is not ugly but is just bland. No distinctive features at all.

BMW 7 is distinctive but it looks obese all around. The previous 7 was pure old-school BMW - sleek and elegant.

Mercedes continues to make their cars look sleeker over time yet retains most of their traditional style. I don't like the CLS though. Too much like an upside down banana.

for me, i really like the M45. i just think it's a damn sexy car...nice low stance, fast as heck with the v8.

for the first couple years, until the genesis attracts a following and the car magazines put it through the comparos and it gathers some more love and attention, it's still gonna get that "well it's still a hyundai."

doesn't matter to me though, if the genesis gives me the same power, look, and feel as the m45 (or 35) i'd have to pick the genesis and take the 10k savings to the bank.

and is that your actual benz?? that thing is nice looking.

you should keep it when you buy something new.

Thanks STS, Its a 10' Car....looks good from 10' away.

Over 280K and still serves me faithfully every day, just starting to show its age here and there.

I probably will keep it. Right now I have a 5 year old car that I love that sits in the garage with 11K miles. HA! Guess when you have 6 cars you have your favorites.

1agswitchin4lanes, consider the new Nissan Maxima in lieu of big sister M35/45.

The Maxima is front wheel drive, which fails one of the OP's requirements.

Granted. I just asked him to consider. No harm there. Thanks for bringing up an important piece of information I also considered before responding. Have a Great Day!

No offense intended. Thought you missed the RWD requirement.

i think the front end of the new maxima is hideous...especially those headlight assemblies.

Caddy STS

The Maxima is nice, unfortunately, wrong wheel drive, something I wouldn't consider. I guess I'm old school when it comes to FWD vs RWD. The way the body shapes concerns me, i.e. if I were to get into a wreck or front end damage, how hard would it be to get it to line up right. Just like the zig zag of the 07+ Camry Rear bumper.

As far as Maximas go, the 2003 SE is my favorite, or a I35 if I was going to get something FWD.

Catag, the STS is nice, but long term reliability concerns me, and I'm still not sure I like that "art & science" design.

[This message has been edited by 1agswitchin4lanes (edited 9/7/2008 4:57p).]

Motor Trend has an article thats right up your alley in the issue that should be on news stands now/soon...red corvette zr1 on the cover.

http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/112_0810_2009_hyundai_genesis_first_test/index.html

Already got it, already read it, already also read the Car and Driver, Road & Track, and Auto Week Articles about it. (I get all four) Already went to the Ride and drive event.

Still have the "Its a Hyundai" ringing in my head. Kind of like a 70,000 dollar Volkswagen (Phaeton)....its still a VW....

Its funny I'm usually giving my own opinion about cars but this seems like a very cometitive segment here. I really like the Genesis but am concerned about the long term. Which is why I'm thinking I'm going to 'digest' this for another year or so, to see what used 4.6L Genesiseseseses end up selling for....

they'll give it the 100k powertrain warranty like the rest of their cars won't they? that should make you feel a bit better too.

According to the Owners manual on parts that are covered (hard parts only, i.e. Block, etc)Their 100K warranty is a joke...their 5 yr/60K NEW Car warranty isnt, however.

The 100K warranty isnt transferrable, only the 5/60.

Got a chance to drive a M35 last night and I really liked it. It's a solid, slightly used purchase.

Lexus IS 350. The car may look slightly small, however it's as roomy as any Japanese V6 sedan. It got 3.5L engine that produces a little over 300 HP, and it's a RWD. I am pretty sure you can find a brand new, or near-brand new for $35K.

Dimensions

* Gross Vehicle Weight Rating: 4497
* Front Head Room: 37.20 Inches
* Front Hip Room: 54.10 Inches
* Front Shoulder Room: 54.40 Inches
* Front Leg Room: 43.90 Inches
* Rear Head Room: 36.70 Inches
* Rear Hip Room: 53.70 Inches
* Rear Leg Room: 30.60 Inches
* Rear Shoulder Room: 52.70 Inches
* Luggage Capacity: 13.00 Cubic Feet
* Maximum Seating: 5
* Length: 180.10 Inches
* Width: 70.90 Inches
* Height: 56.10 Inches
* Weight: Pounds
* Wheelbase: 107.50 Inches
* Ground Clearance: 5.70 Inches
* Max Gross Vehicle Weight: 4497.00 Pounds
* Curb Weight: 3527.00 Pounds

I have the Lexus IS 250 and I would not consider it roomy. Unless his customers are midgets, no way would they be comfortable sitting in the back. There is very little leg room.

Lexus IS, while nice, is WAY small for my needs...

I may have found it roomy, as I have been driving a coupe for the past 10 years.

quote:

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* Maximum Seating: 5

---

That's funny.

Nice car but it is a compact car, not even a mid-size car.

Here's a comparo I just did...

My 2 cents.

I'm a Hyundai homer because I've owned the new Hyundai Sonata for about a year and a half and for what Hyundai gives you for the money they simply can't be beat. Based on my 1.5 yr experience with Hyundai and driving my parent's new Hyundai Vera Cruz I don't think you can go wrong.

The IS350 sounds like it might be too small for your tastes but my wife has the new IS350 and it is fun as hell to drive so I recommend that car as well.

Hyundai is essentially copying Lexus LS and their small SUV with the Genesis and Vera Cruz so you basically get the same car for much less money. The only con to the Hyundai that they need to work on is their navigation system. After extensive use of my wife's nav system in her IS350 compared to Hyundai's nav system in the Vera Cruz it definitely isn't up to par with Lexus. Not nearly as intuitive or helpful.

However, if you don't care about nav then it is non-issue.

edit: I can't speak to Infiniti so everything I just said probably doesn't matter.

[This message has been edited by YouBet (edited 9/8/2008 1:33p).]

Thanks youbet. My only complaint about the Lexus Nav is the inability to use it while driving, including the phone functions.

I hacked the above mentioned LS460L to get it to work and it is most certainly very intuitive.

I like the look of the Hyundai G.

OMG those exhaust tips are the t!ts Thats only the 3.8L one too. We dont get powerfold mirrors, those tips, or the winged badge....

[This message has been edited by 1agswitchin4lanes (edited 9/8/2008 4:27p).]

[This message has been edited by 1agswitchin4lanes (edited 9/8/2008 4:28p).]

I wonder if you could get that stuff aftermarket kinda like BMW's and "Euro" trim.

I'm a BMW guy, but seeing that car and that stance made me do a double take.

Saw one in person (not like the one above) in Alabama a few weeks ago, looked impressive.