What is a reasonable price tag for the new high school?

texaggie2009 said:

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I also worry about the underlying theme of creating two districts within the district. Upon passage, the planned dividing line is the Lake/Leon river. So Temple and the unincorporated area in North Belton ISD will become a self contained "West Temple ISD" apart from Belton and the unincorporated area in South Belton ISD. 45% of Belton ISD students are classified as economically disadvantaged, and while I have not seen a specific geographic breakdown, I would think that is disproportionately weighted towards students in South Belton ISD. I think it is worth an ask to folks as to which ISD their child will attend:

West Temple ISD:
Lakewood elementary
Tarver elementary
Pritle elementary
High Point elementary
"New" elementary

North Belton middle school
Lake Belton middle school

"New" high school

Or

Belton ISD:
Leon Heights elementary
Miller Heights elementary
Southwest elementary
Sparta elementary
Chisholm Trail elementary

Belton middle school (now 9th grade center)
South Belton middle school

Belton high school
New tech high school (still will count in BHS numbers for UIL, and participate in extra-curriculars at BHS)

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Belton needs to do what Georgetown does and not district allow folks to transfer in district. Riverplace kids should go to SBMS, like my daughter does, but I know of a few that go to NBMS. The ISD spends time on making sure that each school is as equal as can be in demographics but doesn't enforce it. That absolutely infuriates me.
But you're correct that it's basically 2 districts, but don't kid yourself about most of the poors being south of the Leon. There's plenty west of 317.

You know what he means, not literally, but it does feel that way. SBMS 8th graders are not looking forward to mixing with NBMS kids next year. They're viewed as snobby.

Salado built theirs for $14 million. Smaller capacity but still. The new elementary school cost seems very cheap and the district still has to buy the land.

mazzag said:

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You know what he means, not literally, but it does feel that way. SBMS 8th graders are not looking forward to mixing with NBMS kids next year. They're viewed as snobby.

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No, actually he was speaking as though it is a policy that they have adopted...I assumed it has been articulated. I dont really care what it "feels like"

And why do we care whether SB 8th graders want to mix with NB kids?

mazzag said:

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Salado built theirs for $14 million. Smaller capacity but still. The new elementary school cost seems very cheap and the district still has to buy the land.

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OK, but what is a reasonable price tag for a HS that will eventually have to accommodate 2200-ish students? In 2021 dollars, not 2008, or.whenever Salado was built

I don't think Salado is a valid comparison at all... a big HS will need all kind of stuff a small one doesn't need --- additional parking, a PAC, fine arts class rooms and facilities, and pretty much more and bigger everything

Captain Pablo said:

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What is a reasonable price tag for the new high school?

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North Belton Middle School is the largest school the district has built in some time. It can serve 1,000 students and cost $25 million to build. Hard to really apples to apples that with a high school though.

The elementary is what doesn't make sense. The district just built Chilshom Trail elementary for less than $13 million. Why is it costing $10 million more to build the same school a few years later?

Captain Pablo said:

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texaggie2009 said:

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I also worry about the underlying theme of creating two districts within the district. Upon passage, the planned dividing line is the Lake/Leon river. So Temple and the unincorporated area in North Belton ISD will become a self contained "West Temple ISD" apart from Belton and the unincorporated area in South Belton ISD. 45% of Belton ISD students are classified as economically disadvantaged, and while I have not seen a specific geographic breakdown, I would think that is disproportionately weighted towards students in South Belton ISD. I think it is worth an ask to folks as to which ISD their child will attend:

West Temple ISD:
Lakewood elementary
Tarver elementary
Pritle elementary
High Point elementary
"New" elementary

North Belton middle school
Lake Belton middle school

"New" high school

Or

Belton ISD:
Leon Heights elementary
Miller Heights elementary
Southwest elementary
Sparta elementary
Chisholm Trail elementary

Belton middle school (now 9th grade center)
South Belton middle school

Belton high school
New tech high school (still will count in BHS numbers for UIL, and participate in extra-curriculars at BHS)

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Where are you getting this "2 ISD" info?

It's all gonna be Belton ISD

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That wasn't very clear. I didn't mean literally two districts. Rather two self contained systems, one having relatively more modern facilities that the other.

Oh don't feel sorry for the Miller Heights kids. There's an at large trustee up for reelection that's itching to close down the 3 "neighborhood" schools. Says they cost too much to operate and maintain. Where will all those kids go? I have no idea but they'll all have to be bussed wherever they go.

texaggie2009 said:

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Captain Pablo said:

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What is a reasonable price tag for the new high school?

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North Belton Middle School is the largest school the district has built in some time. It can serve 1,000 students and cost $25 million to build. Hard to really apples to apples that with a high school though.

The elementary is what doesn't make sense. The district just built Chilshom Trail elementary for less than $13 million. Why is it costing $10 million more to build the same school a few years later?

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Now that, I'm sure I don't know

But I don't think you can interpolate the cost of a new high school by comparing it to the cost of building an elementary school or middle school

As I stated above, high schools require several more things such as Performing Arts centers, additional parking, athletic facilities, practice fields, Fine Arts classrooms and Facilities, chemistry labs, and many, many more things. Simply put, they are going to cost more than a middle school or elementary school because they need more things.

So I'm just wondering what a reasonable price tag is, and how you pay for it. If 125 million dollars is too much, then what is reasonable? What are they going to put in it that is necessary, and what is extravagant.?

Is that all that unusual? The area north of the Leon is the new area. That is where new housing is going, and that is where the growth is. New schools will be built there and they will be, by virtue of the fact that they are newer, nicer than the old stuff. I'm not sure how that's different than any other school district that has new schools and old schools. New stuff is nicer than old stuff

I honestly don't know what is usual in these circumstances. The district owns a number of school sites north and south of the Leon, and is experiencing growth on both ends. I thought they may have gone with the site by the expo or on 436 for the new elementary in response to the big development going in off 1670 or to address the Miller Heights over crowding.

The bond also includes a few million bucks for Lakewood elementary enhancements. That is an old school, but apparently not too old to put money towards improving. I think highly of our Board and administration, but it seems like they are politically tone deaf at times. "We don't have money to fund necessary upgrades to older schools in Belton, but lets build a new gym for Lakewood." I suppose the multi million dollar auditorium enhancements in the administration building are in the southern part of the district.

Supposedly the auditorium enhancements are because BISD won't use UMHB auditoriums/facilities any more because it's a private/Christian school.

The district is not going to put money into south belton properties because kiella and other builders haven't developed that yet. All their money is going into north of the Leon and west temple. 2 builders are in the board. That's not an accident.

mazzag said:

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Supposedly the auditorium enhancements are because BISD won't use UMHB auditoriums/facilities any more because it's a private/Christian school.

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I guess I don't understand how that is such a high priority for the district. BHS still has an auditorium, right? Is it constantly in use? I assume the new high school would also have an auditorium.

texaggie2009 said:

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mazzag said:

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Supposedly the auditorium enhancements are because BISD won't use UMHB auditoriums/facilities any more because it's a private/Christian school.

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I guess I don't understand how that is such a high priority for the district. BHS still has an auditorium, right? Is it constantly in use? I assume the new high school would also have an auditorium.

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It's the only auditorium I guess for the whole district. Think of all the middle school band concerts scheduling plus the high school. I remember my baccalaureate was at UMHB. I guess the district has decided that needs to be held on district property. Among other things we may have used UMHB facilities for.

mazzag said:

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So I created a Facebook page to hopefully defeat this. Just got it going today. With all the candidates signs and vote yes signs in front of builders' offices, I figured it's time. Like if you're interested. Share on here or pm criticism, critiques, advice or more info/ammo.

https://m.facebook.com/Citizens-for-Responsible-School-Spending-377029425988623/?ref=bookmarks

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You put my link on the Facebook page. Lolololol.

I m going to enjoy watching this unfold for a change as I don't have a dog in the fight anymore as I don't work there anymore and don't pay BISD taxes. Bonds were stressful at the time.

I get the district is growing and BISD has to address it. $125 million kicking of the can down the road isn't the answer.

Do we really need middle school band concerts? Middle schools should have a multi purpose room that functions as a cafeteria, gym, and theater. You don't need a separate place for all 3.

Electrical_Ag said:

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Do we really need middle school band concerts? Middle schools should have a multi purpose room that functions as a cafeteria, gym, and theater. You don't need a separate place for all 3.

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The SBMS cafeteria functions as the stage/theater but band concerts are at the PAC. you might as well stir up a controversy with the football program before you go after the band program.

http://www.bisd.net/BISD2025

Interesting transparency from the board. So when the $125million HS opens, it will only be grades 9&10 and increase students over time?
The average home value in the district is $135k? Wow. That's low. We are not a rich district at all.

mazzag said:

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http://www.bisd.net/BISD2025

Interesting transparency from the board. So when the $125million HS opens, it will only be grades 9&10 and increase students over time?
The average home value in the district is $135k? Wow. That's low. We are not a rich district at all.

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Splitting the school like that leaves you with a single Senior High ... similar to Southlake Carroll and Allen.

From the BISD guy on Facebook

"The estimated total cost for the high school is $125.6 million, which includes both the construction costs and the cost of equipping the campus.

North Belton Middle School has 157,000 square feet and serves 1,000 students. By comparison, a new high school would have approximately 386,000 square feet and serve 2,500 students. A high school also has more programs that require specialized equipment and spaces (career and technical education programs, auditorium, etc.). In addition, construction costs increase over time. The cost for North Belton Middle School reflected a "guaranteed maximum price" that was set five years ago."

While the number of students attending a new high school would ultimately be determined by its attendance boundaries, it's likely to have 900-1,000 students when it opens (with grades nine and 10) in 2020 and could grow to about 1,900 students by 2023. Based on current cutoff numbers and formulas, it seems likely that the school will be in either UIL Class 4A or Class 5A when it opens."

Now Belton needs 3 high schools.

http://m.tdtnews.com/news/article_a078150a-1371-11e7-9ef1-e7e876b3fbda.html?mode=jqm

I bet that land wasn't cheap

$13,761 per acre. Ouch

mazzag said:

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Now Belton needs 3 high schools.

http://m.tdtnews.com/news/article_a078150a-1371-11e7-9ef1-e7e876b3fbda.html?mode=jqm

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Yikes!

mazzag said:

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Oh don't feel sorry for the Miller Heights kids. There's an at large trustee up for reelection that's itching to close down the 3 "neighborhood" schools. Says they cost too much to operate and maintain. Where will all those kids go? I have no idea but they'll all have to be bussed wherever they go.

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That will never happen and hasn't been brought up.

OutdoorAg said:

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mazzag said:

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Oh don't feel sorry for the Miller Heights kids. There's an at large trustee up for reelection that's itching to close down the 3 "neighborhood" schools. Says they cost too much to operate and maintain. Where will all those kids go? I have no idea but they'll all have to be bussed wherever they go.

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That will never happen and hasn't been brought up.

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It's been whispered about. What do you think is less of a financial burden on the district? One mega elementary school or 3 aging ones? My dad is 70 and he went to South West. The M&O tax rate of $1.17 per $100 is capped. That rate cannot be raised unless the state says so. The same state that is considering school funding cuts and vouchers. If this 2017 bond passes, the district is counting on rising property values from the TAD to maintain & operate them.
The debt is disturbing.

http://www.bisd.net/cms/lib02/TX01001322/Centricity/Domain/1795/HistoricalAssumptions-May2017BondElection.pdf

What is even more disturbing is not passing the bond and having a high school with 5000 kids. No thanks. Belton has to have a 2nd high school. Pass it now or pass it later when it will costs even more.

Pass it all you want. We can't afford it. We'll end up like frisco ISD. Or worse.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Frisco-ISD-Could-Delay-Opening-of-New-Schools-396731711.html%3Famp%3Dy

Increase in property values doesn't mean more money for the district. It actually evens out because the state sends less funds. Projections on growth are not guaranteed.

FWIW, I received 2 awesome compliments tonight on my page. One from a BISD teacher in person, that thanked me for my comments and my page (I've never met her before). And I got a "follow" from a trustee on the board. Oh and this pic shows current debt and future debt. Where will you be in 2051?

OutdoorAg said:

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mazzag said:

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Oh don't feel sorry for the Miller Heights kids. There's an at large trustee up for reelection that's itching to close down the 3 "neighborhood" schools. Says they cost too much to operate and maintain. Where will all those kids go? I have no idea but they'll all have to be bussed wherever they go.

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That will never happen and hasn't been brought up.

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Yes it has. Dr. Kincannon openly speaks about the plan to eventually close down Leon Heights and Miller Heights. It is not some secret. But it wasn't a priority in this bond issue to either replace them or provide interim upgrades.

Thank you! Vivian Baker promised that wouldn't happen. But she's no longer the super and S&W is salivating over the Leon Heights property. When there's a buck to be made/saved, this admin and board will make/take it.

And the property on 121 gives them a perfect site. Did y'all know the new elementary on wheat Rd is bursting at the seams? I live in area 2. That is the only school in that area boundary. Good grief. Think about how all the folks living off Taylor's Valley feel. Like forgotten fools.