Which one of you is this?
Home generator thread
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Last: 12 days ago by barnacle bob
He doesn't understand the A/C system draw. The LRA on his 5 ton compressor is just for the compressor unit, not the attic furnace. The soft start isn't handling the furnace blower. The furnace blower doesn't draw 30A. It's likely rated at 15A and draws 1/3 of that.
Otherwise, nice setup and explanation.
Otherwise, nice setup and explanation.
That housing is a custom unit that can be bought.
I have a link for it, I'm drawing up plans for a DIT, but you also need a slab or fitting paving bricks. Looks like this:
https://www.zombiebox.com/shop/xlarge
I have a link for it, I'm drawing up plans for a DIT, but you also need a slab or fitting paving bricks. Looks like this:
https://www.zombiebox.com/shop/xlarge
HerschelwoodHardhead said:
Question for the knowledgeable folks on this thread. I'm in Florida, and going to take advantage of tax free weekend to buy a portable generator to run fridges, window units, etc in the event of a storm. However, I don't have natural gas lines in my neighborhood. Would it make sense to buy a dual-fuel (gas plus propane) generator? Or is buying propane tanks a bad idea compared to just refilling with gasoline during a post-storm environment? I honestly have no idea how big a propane tank you'd need to keep a generator running for 24 hours.
Thanks for any advice.
Always maximize your fueling options. Broke my Westinghouse 11500tfc in on a 20lb propane tank. Ran for 5 hours and still has some fuel left. Propane and gasoline will cost about the same amount on a per hr basis. I will say after Beryl hit there was no propane available at any location.
Running just fridges and window units, I'd look at one of the medium sized, dual fuel inverter generators.HerschelwoodHardhead said:
Question for the knowledgeable folks on this thread. I'm in Florida, and going to take advantage of tax free weekend to buy a portable generator to run fridges, window units, etc in the event of a storm. However, I don't have natural gas lines in my neighborhood. Would it make sense to buy a dual-fuel (gas plus propane) generator? Or is buying propane tanks a bad idea compared to just refilling with gasoline during a post-storm environment? I honestly have no idea how big a propane tank you'd need to keep a generator running for 24 hours.
Thanks for any advice.
https://westinghouseoutdoorpower.com/products/igen5000df-inverter-generator-dual-fuel
Inverters are more expensive, but they are quieter and more fuel efficient. You can also parallel them with additional inverter generators if you need more capacity in the future.
15 hours @ 50% load on 3.4 gallons of gasoline.
~18 hours @ 50% load on a 20-gal propane tank.
Buy a 100lb propane tank, fill it up, and store it. That should allow for 3+ days of run time without having to go search for gasoline. But even then, you only need to store like 10 additional gallons of gasoline for an extended outage.
Much better than the 10+ gallons a day I was getting to feed my 12,000kW running my house after Derecho and Beryl.
I'm happy with my 3500 watt dual fuel inverter. It runs a portable/window AC, a fridge or 2, the wifi, and keeps our devices charged for about 4 - 5 gal/day. If the gas lines get long, I can just do a propane exchange.
I decided against the expense and maintenance of a large generator. Having the basics covered for even an extended period just made more sense for my "keep it simple" approach. It was worth it to pay a little more for the inverter since I keep it on my patio, and since I can just charge devices without worrying about surges.
One thing that I would like to know...how much gasoline do generators burn on idle? I could have gotten a larger unit, but I like the 3500 portability as well. Also, I'd be concerned about the extra capacity not being used, and just burning fuel for nothing. So...I wonder if the correct answer is to go big (e.g. > 10K watts), or go small (< 4 K watts), but not in the middle where you burn extra fuel, lose portability, and still can't power the whole house.
My home is around 3400 square feet, and my highest electric bill is $337. At 4 gal/day, $3/gal, that 3500 watt generator takes $360/month to run...for a window AC and a fridge. 10 - 15 gal/day of gas is a crap ton of money after a few days, and just not worth it as long as I have a cool place to sleep.
I decided against the expense and maintenance of a large generator. Having the basics covered for even an extended period just made more sense for my "keep it simple" approach. It was worth it to pay a little more for the inverter since I keep it on my patio, and since I can just charge devices without worrying about surges.
One thing that I would like to know...how much gasoline do generators burn on idle? I could have gotten a larger unit, but I like the 3500 portability as well. Also, I'd be concerned about the extra capacity not being used, and just burning fuel for nothing. So...I wonder if the correct answer is to go big (e.g. > 10K watts), or go small (< 4 K watts), but not in the middle where you burn extra fuel, lose portability, and still can't power the whole house.
My home is around 3400 square feet, and my highest electric bill is $337. At 4 gal/day, $3/gal, that 3500 watt generator takes $360/month to run...for a window AC and a fridge. 10 - 15 gal/day of gas is a crap ton of money after a few days, and just not worth it as long as I have a cool place to sleep.
94chem,
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
This, right here, is a giant part of the reasons we decided to go with the whole home gen set.Quote:
Buy a 100lb propane tank, fill it up, and store it. That should allow for 3+ days of run time without having to go search for gasoline. But even then, you only need to store like 10 additional gallons of gasoline for an extended outage.
Much better than the 10+ gallons a day I was getting to feed my 12,000kW running my house after Derecho and Beryl.
Big assumption, but assuming the gen runs as designed, I don't have to do anything except track the hours to ensure proper maintenance.
The zero percent load is the number I want to know. I think that would weigh heavily into generator selection.
94chem,
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
Why? Do you plan to leave your generator idling with nothing plugged in for a long period of time?94chem said:
The zero percent load is the number I want to know. I think that would weigh heavily into generator selection.
This, to me, is the biggest benefit of an inverter generator. It constantly throttles engine RPM based on load vs. running at a constant 3600 RPM, for instance. By design, it saves fuel under lighter load scenarios.Quote:
One thing that I would like to know...how much gasoline do generators burn on idle? I could have gotten a larger unit, but I like the 3500 portability as well. Also, I'd be concerned about the extra capacity not being used, and just burning fuel for nothing.
You just answered your own question, albeit qualitative. What is the background/baseline fuel consumption rate of various generators? Or a 4th way if putting it...if I had a 2500 watt load, how much more would it cost to run it off a 5000 watt generator than a 3000 watt generator? One pint per day? 2 gallons? You wouldn't put a 400 HP engine in a lawnmower.
94chem,
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
I think the bigger issue with propane/gasoline is obtaining and storing it during an emergency
These generators are going to be run a couple times a year max, so the relative costs of fueling them is pretty low on my list.
These generators are going to be run a couple times a year max, so the relative costs of fueling them is pretty low on my list.
More expensive than the generators that will generally be in it.AlaskanAg99 said:
That housing is a custom unit that can be bought.
I have a link for it, I'm drawing up plans for a DIT, but you also need a slab or fitting paving bricks. Looks like this:
https://www.zombiebox.com/shop/xlarge
I'm very aware how it works. I've had a large portable setup for 5 years and used it more than I would have liked. To each their own.Dill-Ag13 said:This bold part is not true. No need to drain anything with a tri fuel if you're running NG or LP. There is not necessarily any strain, oversize your portable for your application so it's not running full throttle.AgLA06 said:Come on.P.H. Dexippus said:
Portable for the win. I had mine stored in the garage after Uri in 2021 until the derecho in May 2024 drained of gas and fresh synthetic oil. No maintenance required.
They both require maintenance to keep running.
Standby is expensive and gives you all the power you need and automatically kicks in but you have to service it regularly regardless of use.
Portable is cheaper and as long as you drain and store it properly between uses you can forget about it. But you have to manually transfer it and once you get it running they tend to strain under load and require all the same maintenance while being used to keep them going. Which means you have to shut it down to do so.
I'm a portable guy all the way due to financial value, but at least be truthful about it.
A 10 minute shut-down for an oil change every 100 hours is no big deal. Just have to watch some YouTube and be reasonably handy. Portables have come a long way in the past 3 years.
I find changing hot oil, cleaning the air filter, checking spark plugs, etc. in the dark every 50ish hours to be a pain in the ass. Even with adding things like quick drain oil valves. And unless you're just running a window unit there's going to be strain when a freezer or AC kicks on. That's why peak and running watts are both important. It doesn't matter how you size it after 11,600 watts since that's the maximum into the house on a 50amp breaker.
And while you are correct with tri-fuels, they make up a very small segment of portable sales. You can't speak to the norm while describing the exception.
The problem is the trend that instead of 1-3 days the last several outages have been 5+ days and potentially 10+. Propane and gas get quite difficult to find in those scenarios and expensive if you do as most in the city can't have more than 100 pound tanks.Diggity said:
I think the bigger issue with propane/gasoline is obtaining and storing it during an emergency
These generators are going to be run a couple times a year max, so the relative costs of fueling them is pretty low on my list.
Filling up 20 gallons of gasoline every 3 days as my neighbors were doing wasn't fun. Tri-fuel opens up NG, but it's the least efficient of all 3 and 15K gas generator is most likely going to be down around 10K for NG.
I agree.
The tradeoff of lower wattage for the convenience of not having to track down fuel is 100% worth it to me.
The cost of said fuel is at the bottom of my list.
The tradeoff of lower wattage for the convenience of not having to track down fuel is 100% worth it to me.
The cost of said fuel is at the bottom of my list.
It all depends on your level of tolerance to be inconvenienced. If you cannot possibly deal with any change to your normal routine, then clearly you need to spend tens of thousands.
Of you can deal with partial power to limp along in the fairly rare instance you'll be without power, then you can go budget with portable. Its all about lifestyle choice.
If power is out at scale you're not going to have internet and cell service will be highly impacted or out. So forget about working.
I'd rather deal with a small inconvenience at times than spend huge amounts. To each their own.
Of you can deal with partial power to limp along in the fairly rare instance you'll be without power, then you can go budget with portable. Its all about lifestyle choice.
If power is out at scale you're not going to have internet and cell service will be highly impacted or out. So forget about working.
I'd rather deal with a small inconvenience at times than spend huge amounts. To each their own.
My facebook neighborhood page was bombarded with people w/ whole home's that **** the bed after Beryl and they couldn't get service....even though they were on a service plan.terradactylexpress said:
The problem with doing it yourself is when they **** the bed during an event good luck getting service if you aren't on their service plan
I've seen and heard this a lot, but part of me wonders how much of it was out of the service providers control.htxag09 said:My facebook neighborhood page was bombarded with people w/ whole home's that **** the bed after Beryl and they couldn't get service....even though they were on a service plan.terradactylexpress said:
The problem with doing it yourself is when they **** the bed during an event good luck getting service if you aren't on their service plan
How many of those service people had damages and issues of their own preventing them from going to work?
How many gen sets were having issues, that, coupled with the previous simply created a demand problem?
It's not always black/white. I'm not saying those are THE reasons, just possible reasons.
There's no perfect system. We simply do the best with what we have.
it doesn't really matter the reason though.
if you're paying $12K+ for a generator that isn't serviceable without a 3rd party, that's a messed up situation.
My friend couldn't get his guy to call him back for weeks.
if you're paying $12K+ for a generator that isn't serviceable without a 3rd party, that's a messed up situation.
My friend couldn't get his guy to call him back for weeks.
I agree that there is a lot too it.CDUB98 said:I've seen and heard this a lot, but part of me wonders how much of it was out of the service providers control.htxag09 said:My facebook neighborhood page was bombarded with people w/ whole home's that **** the bed after Beryl and they couldn't get service....even though they were on a service plan.terradactylexpress said:
The problem with doing it yourself is when they **** the bed during an event good luck getting service if you aren't on their service plan
How many of those service people had damages and issues of their own preventing them from going to work?
How many gen sets were having issues, that, coupled with the previous simply created a demand problem?
It's not always black/white. I'm not saying those are THE reasons, just possible reasons.
There's no perfect system. We simply do the best with what we have.
But I think a lot of it is these companies, Generac for example, grew their customer base and sold generators as fast as they could. They didn't really care about stocking parts or staffing up for the additional customer base.
Yes, generators involve maintenance and upkeep. But if you're paying someone $50/month to do that upkeep wouldn't you think that it'd be ready to run when needed? Wouldn't you think that the company would stock up on common failing parts and consumables?
I had a neighbor with a brand new generator that didn't work after Beryl. They were paying for the maintenance plan, paid for the proper install, break in, etc. Service tech didn't come out until a week later, didn't get it fixed for 3+ weeks. None of your above helps them knowing they paid $25k for a generator but had to get a hotel because it didn't work in the first storm.
Had another neighbor with an older generator but under the maintenance plan since purchase. Their generator didn't start either. They didn't get theirs even looked out until weeks later. No response from their service company, just ghosted.
These are sold as turn key, ready in an emergency situation solutions. As such, these companies should be prepared to service them immediately following said emergency situations. Excuses of not being able to fall short, IMO.
ETA: the original point of my post wasn't to go into whether excuses are valid or not. It was simply responding to the poster saying if you're not on a service plan you won't get serviced after a storm if you have an issue. I agree, you won't. But, based on Beryl, you won't get serviced if you're on a plan either. So, to me, that's not reason enough to do a service plan.
Slow down, turbo.
I'm not trying to make excuses for them, and if it happens to me, I'm going to a be very unhappy camper.
Just trying to point out there could be reasons other than they simply suck.
I'm not trying to make excuses for them, and if it happens to me, I'm going to a be very unhappy camper.
Just trying to point out there could be reasons other than they simply suck.
This is what put the nail in the coffin on a Generac for me. The price you pay and they're still an air-cooled engine with notable failure rates.Diggity said:
it doesn't really matter the reason though.
if you're paying $12K+ for a generator that isn't serviceable without a 3rd party, that's a messed up situation.
My friend couldn't get his guy to call him back for weeks.
Well, my gen set is being installed today and tomorrow. We'll see how things go.
No it's pretty much they suck
If anyone is looking for a portable generator solution, the 5k watt dual fuel Predator is on sale this weekend. I was going to get two of these to daisy chain before I got a bigger gas Champion inverter.
https://go.harborfreight.com/email/2024/08/e182966-70143/
https://go.harborfreight.com/email/2024/08/e182966-70143/
My predator 9k traditional generator has been a beast, just got a tri fuel so I just drained it and it's now my spare/backup but for the price it's been awesome
That's a good deal. For someone not interested in a trifuel, that will take care of just about everything short of an HVAC condenser. It would probably handle a 2ton HVAC with soft start.
Thanks for everyone who gave advice, it was very illuminating (pun intended).
https://www.arkgenerator.com
^^^ I used these guys in Dec 2023 to install my full gen set. Would highly recommend them if you wanna bite the bullet and get a third party to do the work. I ended up getting a 30kv liquid cooled that runs the entire home.
It's been used twice this year:
- early May for the Jericho and it ran for 36hrs without any issues.
- Beryl and it ran for 144 hours like a champ.
- The liquid cooled is whisper quiet compared to my neighbor's air cooled that sounds like an A10 Warthog dumping its load.
HTH
^^^ I used these guys in Dec 2023 to install my full gen set. Would highly recommend them if you wanna bite the bullet and get a third party to do the work. I ended up getting a 30kv liquid cooled that runs the entire home.
It's been used twice this year:
- early May for the Jericho and it ran for 36hrs without any issues.
- Beryl and it ran for 144 hours like a champ.
- The liquid cooled is whisper quiet compared to my neighbor's air cooled that sounds like an A10 Warthog dumping its load.
HTH
TO THE DROP ZONE!!!
drumboy said:
If anyone is looking for a portable generator solution, the 5k watt dual fuel Predator is on sale this weekend. I was going to get two of these to daisy chain before I got a bigger gas Champion inverter.
https://go.harborfreight.com/email/2024/08/e182966-70143/
If you buy a Honda instead of the Predator or Champion, you're throwing money away.
94chem,
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
That, sir, was the greatest post in the history of TexAgs. I salute you. -- Dough
If you don't mind me asking, how much did that run you?
Also why Kohler over Generac?
Also why Kohler over Generac?
94chem said:drumboy said:
If anyone is looking for a portable generator solution, the 5k watt dual fuel Predator is on sale this weekend. I was going to get two of these to daisy chain before I got a bigger gas Champion inverter.
https://go.harborfreight.com/email/2024/08/e182966-70143/
If you buy a Honda instead of the Predator or Champion, you're throwing money away.
I have a champion and a smaller Honda that's 20 years old I got used. IMO Hondas are more dependable, parts accessible and more shops will work on them. Not sure the Honda 7K is worth $4k.
If anybody is looking for a soft start, I'd stay away from Micro-Air right now. Their "Flex" model is having all kinds of issues.
A lot of failures in the Texas heat. They are claiming the newer batches are fixing the issue, but nobody really knows what's going on.
A lot of failures in the Texas heat. They are claiming the newer batches are fixing the issue, but nobody really knows what's going on.
I have the whole home portable generator solution (12KW with a natural gas quick connect and 50 amp rv connection to panel). I will echo some comments here that maintenance is extremely important. Anyone with a generator should really learn as much as you can on them - have a service contract and that's fine, but be able to troubleshoot if your in a jam. Get backup parts on hand today - spark plug, air filters, oil that will allow continuous running for 1-2 weeks, regulator, battery, battery charger, etc. I've often thought of even getting a second gasoline portable generator that will run fridges only as a backup. If you have a whole home generator, that's not a bad idea to keep yourself out of trouble if the whole home goes down.
Small chance this is useful, but Sutherland's has 15% off everything in stock on labor day, including generators and 10% off until then.
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