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Home generator thread

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hunterjr81
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In reply to TXAG 05 • 6:15p, 7/10/24
TXAG 05 said:
hunterjr81 said:
Ag_07 said:
I have serious doubts about whether the nat gas supply and infrastructure will be able to handle the insane increase of all these whole home generators.


Why so? Pretty much every home has a gas heater and never have an issue there.

I have a tri fuel generator that can run off natural gas. Bought it at Costco a couple years ago. It sure is nice to not have to worry about buying gasoline. I'm at the point now where I'm going to have an interlock kit and power inlet installed to make things easier to power instead of running extension cords everywhere. Have been researching soft start kits on the home ac so I may be able to run it to off the generator I already have.

I don't think these big backup whole home generators are necessary if you have a soft start kit for your ac. I'm certainly going to test it out soon when I get it all installed.


Can't endorse the soft start enough. Installed one after El Derecho and my house is nice and cool right now instead of high 80s like it could be. For reference-4 ton unit and my generator is 9000/7250. When the A/C is running, the generator is at 50% capacity with everything else going too.



Thanks for that info. My generator is basically the same at 9500 startup. That tells me with a soft start on my 4 ton ac I can run it with my generator.
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Diggity
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In reply to htxag09 • 6:18p, 7/10/24
AG
yeah, I don't pretend to know how gas supply works. Could see it becoming a localized issue in areas where a ton of people are using them at the same time.

I've never read anything from any sort of authority on the issue. Would be interesting to get an experts view.
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SockDePot
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In reply to hunterjr81 • 6:18p, 7/10/24
hunterjr81 said:
Ag_07 said:
I have serious doubts about whether the nat gas supply and infrastructure will be able to handle the insane increase of all these whole home generators.



I don't think these big backup whole home generators are necessary if you have a soft start kit for your ac. I'm certainly going to test it out soon when I get it all installed.


This 100%. They oversize starting kw based on the LRA of your compressor. For my 5 ton it went from 126 to 30. 30amp startup x 240 = 7200.

Running max was 18 x 240 = 4320

All gas appliances and furnace.

During the derecho ran whole house, 2 refrigerators and a deep freeze. Not everything is starting and/or running at the same time, you can/should use diversity in your calculation of what's running. Another reason everyone ends up with way oversized generators.

Everything I've read the soft start helps long term health of your compressor / capacitors because it doesn't get slammed with 100% power from %0.

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AgLiving06
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6:32p, 7/10/24
This is the hot new soft start: https://www.microair.net/collections/easystart-soft-starters/products/easystart-flex-home-ac-soft-starter

Reduces your LRA by 50% (confirmed by a bunch of people) and yes it does help the life of the compressor.

It's the last thing I have left to do on my overall setup. I have a hard start, which works ok, but the soft start is superior.
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dahouse
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In reply to Diggity • 6:58p, 7/10/24
AG
I work for a gas LDC. We ran numbers on new developments if every house had a generator. If every house in a 1,500 lot development had a generator, and they all started at the same time, and we had our 60psi in the mains, the system would be fine, but some generators would starve at the back of the system. Once the others were up and running, those at the back can start. Then we have plenty of supply.

The odds of every single house having a whole home on gas supply and all starting at the same time seemed a low probability to us.
Cody
Fightin Texas Aggie c/o 04
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Diggity
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In reply to dahouse • 7:18p, 7/10/24
AG
You daman!
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htxag09
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In reply to dahouse • 7:20p, 7/10/24
BBRex
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7:48p, 7/10/24
AG
So we decided to move forward on this:

https://westinghouseoutdoorpower.com/products/wgen9500-generator?bvstate=pg:10/ct:r

I guess calls to the A/C guy, the electrician and plumber are next. What's the recommendation on order, or is there one?
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aTm2004
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In reply to AgLiving06 • 8:36p, 7/10/24
AG
Can an electrician install one of those? My brother is one and I'd much rather get him a couple of beers than to have an AC guy come out.
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TXAG 05
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In reply to aTm2004 • 8:38p, 7/10/24
AG
aTm2004 said:
Can an electrician install one of those? My brother is one and I'd much rather get him a couple of beers than to have an AC guy come out.


Yes. It's pretty easy to install. Wired mine up myself.
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Drillbit4
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8:55p, 7/10/24
AG
FWIW I've had a Kohler for 7 years and it's performed flawlessly. I've also noticed it's much quieter than my neighbors who have Generacs. Maybe air cooled vs liquid cooled? Not sure.
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AgLiving06
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In reply to aTm2004 • 8:56p, 7/10/24
aTm2004 said:
Can an electrician install one of those? My brother is one and I'd much rather get him a couple of beers than to have an AC guy come out.

Yes...plenty of videos on how to do it. Your brother should have no issues with it.
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Motis B Totis
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9:01p, 7/10/24
AG
Here are my notes for soft start install from 2021:

I installed the micro-air soft start myself in less than an hour today. I have a single Carrier 5 ton (60,000 btu). Testing inrush amps before was 139 amps (33,000 watts) on a cheap amp meter. After install it's at 45 in rush amps (11,000 watts) on the bluetooth app. I mounted it right on the outside of the unit.

[url=https://www.microair.net/products/easystart-368-6-ton-soft-start-motor-starter-for-115-and-230v-ac-motors?variant=29181662283][/url]https://www.microair.net/products/easystart-368-6-ton-soft-start-motor-starter-for-115-and-230v-ac-motors?variant=29181662283

I would buy a good clamp amp meter first. I found that a cheap one will miss peak amps and not give a consistent reading. Open up you a/c & familiarize yourself with the components. Test peak amps & running amps a few times on the run wire. It's the thick one on the contactor labeled 23. Buy a few electrical crimp connectors/terminals if you don't have them (flat quick connect, ring & fork). I used the youtube video link & the two manuals below and it helped a lot. After watching & reading a few times I was confident to do it myself.

To install the micro-air has 4 wires:
-orange wire plugs into an open slot on the Herm terminal on the run capacitor
-black wire is added to the contactor labeled 21
-remove the run wire & cut the terminal. Splice with crimp connector with the brown wire
-white wire goes back in place of the run wire

I'm no electrician so my terminology may be off. Before install, be sure to flip the breakers & remove the a/c service disconnect before touching wires! Also test voltage just to make sure you don't get zapped.



http://www.micro-air.com/kb-easystart/articles_installation/easystart_Home_AC_Wiring_Guide.cfm[url=http://www.micro-air.com/kb-easystart/articles_installation/easystart_Home_AC_Wiring_Guide.cfm][/url]
[url=http://www.micro-air.com/kb-easystart/articles_installation/easystart_Home_Brand_Specific_Wiring_Diagrams.cfm][/url]
http://www.micro-air.com/kb-easystart/articles_installation/easystart_Home_Brand_Specific_Wiring_Diagrams.cfm

Before:


After:



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AgLiving06
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9:43p, 7/10/24
One thing I'd add is the recommends has to been to change out the capacitor at the same time you're doing the micro air since you're in there
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P.H. Dexippus
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9:55p, 7/10/24
AG
In case anyone is having a hard time sourcing a Micro-Air soft start, I picked up a ASY-368-X48 Blue locally last week for $345+ tax
https://firstsourceenergyinc.com

I also see that as of July 1st, it looks like Micro-Air has gone to a one-size-fits-all business model and no longer advertises the different size soft start based on HVAC capacity. Now they sell the "EasyStart Flex Home AC Soft Starter" which looks to be the old x72.
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YellAg2004
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11:23p, 7/10/24
AG
My 5-ton AC has a soft start installed and the starting load is ~37 amps. Once running it drops down to ~17 amps if I remember correctly. My Predator 9500 generator has a 30-amp, 240v plug that I have wired into my panel via interlock.

If I shut down other loads (ie refrigerators) to manage the load at startup, should that generator have the power to get the compressor going without damaging it (the compressor)? That's my biggest fear about trying is I don't want to damage my AC so even once I get power back, I'm still in the heat.

We currently have two portable AC units running that are pulling enough amps that they're keeping us from using other appliances in the house (other than refrigerators). I'm willing to try and see if it will run the central air, but not if it risks damaging the AC unit.

Can anyone tell me if I'm being worried about nothing and should give it a shot? Or are my concerns about damaging the AC reasonable?
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aTm2004
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In reply to AgLiving06 • 11:25p, 7/10/24
AG
AgLiving06 said:
One thing I'd add is the recommends has to been to change out the capacitor at the same time you're doing the micro air since you're in there

I think my capacitor went out tonight. Both units it's were running and the wife decided to cook dinner and turned on 3 burners and the oven, which caused the generator to really big down. I ran over and turned it off and the generator returned to normal. Left to go catch for my daughter and came back to downstairs being 80*. Called my step-brother who is a HVAC guy (not in Houston) and he had me do a few things. Unit in attic is working fine but outside unit is not coming on or even trying. He said capacitor, compactor, or compressor. I'm hoping one of the first 2.

I'll take it. Others have it waaay worse right now.
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TXTransplant
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4:52a, 7/11/24
Something to consider if you want to run the Duromax (or any generator) on propane.

A propane tank is only going to last 5-7 hours. Mine ran for somewhere between 5-6 last night, and that was only powering the fridge and a small box fan (it's big enough to do more than that).

Propane ran out about 145 am. I just left it and will have my BF change it out later this morning.

This is why my plan has always been to hook it up to my nat gas line.
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AgLiving06
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6:47a, 7/11/24
How big are the propane tanks you're running?
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TXTransplant
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In reply to AgLiving06 • 7:16a, 7/11/24
AgLiving06 said:
How big are the propane tanks you're running?


Just the small ones you get for your grill at the grocery store. If you wanted to run off propane, you'd have to get the bigger tanks like they use in rural areas.
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Ag_07
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In reply to dahouse • 7:32a, 7/11/24
AG
dahouse said:
I work for a gas LDC. We ran numbers on new developments if every house had a generator. If every house in a 1,500 lot development had a generator, and they all started at the same time, and we had our 60psi in the mains, the system would be fine, but some generators would starve at the back of the system. Once the others were up and running, those at the back can start. Then we have plenty of supply.

The odds of every single house having a whole home on gas supply and all starting at the same time seemed a low probability to us.

Interesting and thanks for the info

Couple follow up questions

A) I think the chances of them all starting up at the same time are pretty high since they'd all kick on when the subdivision loses power. But that's a moot point since yeah I think it's a stretch to assume every house has one.

B) While this is good news for new developments do you think this would be the case for older neighborhoods? Is the 60 psi in the mains standard even for older communities?

Thanks again for the insight.
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Mas89
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In reply to BBRex • 8:08a, 7/11/24
AG

I bought a 26 generac 2 weeks ago but it's not permitted/ installed yet.
Have had the 2200 Honda several years but this is its first real test. Very impressed that it easily runs the 6,000 bedroom window unit and the kitchen frig.
Before I installed the window unit, it ran 2 refrigerators and our garage freezer. With the window unit on, I can still run one frig and the freezer. But only run the freezer about 2 hours in morning and 2 at night. Cleaned out the extra frig and not using it anymore and I can turn off the ac to make coffee.

Best part of the 2,200 Honda is it runs 8 1/2 hours on the one gallon gas tank. Filling it every 8 hours only.
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Ezra Brooks
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8:09a, 7/11/24
AG
I recall seeing discussion buried in one of the other threads, but it should be here as well...

On generator sizing - talk me through it. How birthday do I need to go for a typical 3,500 square foot house.

Multiple fridges and a deep freeze.

2 - 4 ton A/C units - probably would plan to only use one of those or one at a time.

Just want to make sure I'm looking at the right size for the portable approach.
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BowSowy
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In reply to Ezra Brooks • 8:18a, 7/11/24
AG
You'll want to know the startup power requirements as well as the running power requirements for each of the items you plan to run off the generator and size it appropriately. My understanding is that you can play with staggering startup for different items to reduce your required startup wattage.
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Oh Four Five
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In reply to drumboy • 8:24a, 7/11/24
AG
I have this tri-fuel Winco with a Honda engine in it. I bought it after the freeze and this is the first real test for it. I have it tied into my natural gas and use an interlock for my panel. I was also worried about NG supply after the freeze, so I had gasoline on hand, too, as a back up.

It ran like a champ and basically powered a small house. It's not auto fail over but it was quick to set up and get going so we weren't down long.

https://www.wincogenerator.com/product/winco-hps12000he-tri-fuel-portable-generator/
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TXTransplant
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8:25a, 7/11/24
Welp, brand new duramax doesn't want to start this am. It struggled to start yesterday, but we thought we might have some issue with the propane tank.

This am it seems to be the starter. It's running now, but I will be contacting them as soon as this is over.
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Mas89
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In reply to Ezra Brooks • 8:25a, 7/11/24
AG
Had this discussion over dinner at a friends house with the water cooled 48kw on a big house.
It really depends on if you want to run everything at once like they want to be able to.
Oven, electric water heaters, electric clothes driers are the big question if also running 2 home ac units and possibly electric heat pumps in the winter.

To run all of the above no question a larger water cooled unit.
We have the same size home as yours and ordered an air cooled 26 kw generac 2 weeks ago. According to the salesman, going from the 26 to 38 water cooled with radiator was a substantial price increase.
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jphjr
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In reply to SockDePot • 8:39a, 7/11/24
AG
Is a soft start needed for a variable speed AC unit? Does anyone know?
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cena05
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8:48a, 7/11/24
AG
Someone needs to start a generator consulting business in Houston.
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Furlock Bones
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8:53a, 7/11/24
AG
Predator 3500 inverter update. Been running strong now for over 36 hours. I'm mostly only running a fridge and freezer. They don't pull much once they are at temp especially the freezer. Pretty easy on gas. Think I am going to keep it after all. Will be adding a portable AC or window unit. That will definitely increase the gas consumption.
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dahouse
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In reply to Ag_07 • 9:08a, 7/11/24
AG
A) We ran that exercise after the freeze because we had developers/builders that wanted to offer whole home generators on the new builds. It never went anywhere

B) Our oldest neighborhood was built in 1998, so I can't speak for anything older than that, but we try to maintain 60 psi in the mains. Once we get down to 40psi we start planning pressure improvements. We have monitoring stations at the dead ends of all of our systems to keep an eye on pressure.

Cody
Fightin Texas Aggie c/o 04
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aTm2004
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In reply to Mas89 • 9:16a, 7/11/24
AG
Those Hondas are something else. When we used to tailgate the Aggie games 10+ years ago, my dad bought 2 2000s, a parrell kit, and an extended run tank, and they'd power my uncle's camper like it was nothing. We'd always get to Reed at noon on Friday and those things would run from about 1 pm Friday until 8 am Sunday and never had an issue with them.

I have one of them now and loaned it to a neighbor to run her fridge and some lights and fans, and it's been flawless. She decided to bug out to her daughter's place in Dallas this morning, so I'll drain the gas that's in it, run it dry, drain the carb (and possibly change the oil, but that was changed in April) and it'll be good until needed again. They're expensive, but worth it. IMO, everyone should have a Honda 2000/2200 in their garage.
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aTm2004
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In reply to TXTransplant • 9:18a, 7/11/24
AG
Could the battery be the issue? I know it's new, but maybe the battery was weak?
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aTm2004
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In reply to Furlock Bones • 9:21a, 7/11/24
AG
Furlock Bones said:
Predator 3500 inverter update. Been running strong now for over 36 hours. I'm mostly only running a fridge and freezer. They don't pull much once they are at temp especially the freezer. Pretty easy on gas. Think I am going to keep it after all. Will be adding a portable AC or window unit. That will definitely increase the gas consumption.
I spoke with my dad yesterday and he runs his big duromax during the day and then switches to his predator at night to run fans, a couple lights, and a window unit in the master just because the fuel consumption is so little and the fridges/freezer will be just fine overnight. The little rodent in his dome is still kicking, apparently.
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AgLiving06
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In reply to jphjr • 9:22a, 7/11/24
jphjr said:
Is a soft start needed for a variable speed AC unit? Does anyone know?

No. You're good. the variable speed has a very low LRA.
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