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Question about our new air conditioner

2,296 Views | 23 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by Ag_07
AJ02
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AG
We just had a brand new two speed, dual zone air conditioner and ductwork installed in our house this week. I'm having problems getting it to cool to the correct temperature throughout the day & night, and AC company keeps essentially blowing me off. It's a 2400 sq ft house, 2 floors.

1. It was installed Monday, completely frozen up on Wednesday. It was above 80 degrees on the second floor Wednesday afternoon. Called technician out and he confirmed it had frozen. We were told adding a "vent" in the attic to return the chilled air somewhere into the system would fix it. (Apologies as to what exactly it was, as there was a significant language barrier). They installed the "vent" Thursday afternoon.

2. We have one Honeywell thermostat installed upstairs, and a second downstairs. Temperature on both thermostats can run as much as 6-8 degrees above actual temperature as noted by external thermometers placed nearby. i.e. thermostat says it's 86 degrees upstairs, but external thermometer placed right next to it shows 78 degrees. Within an inch of each other.

3. During the day we set our house at 74. Thermostats say temp upstairs is 85+, while external thermometer upstairs says temp is 69 upstairs. Downstairs we set thermostat at 74 and it says temperature is 72 while external thermometers say it is 65. In other words...cold.

4. In the evening, the opposite happens. We set it at 68. Downstairs the thermostat says 70 while external thermometers show 72-74. Upstairs is about the same. No matter what I do, I can't get it to cool more than that at night.

5. At night, I can hear the AC short-cycling. It kicks up every 90 seconds, and stays on for about a minute (max) before decreasing speed. Then 90 seconds later, kicks back up again. This seems way too often.

What the heck am I missing???? It's freezing during the day (below temp I set it at) and hot at night (above temp I set it at). And NEVER is the actual temperature in the house even close to what the thermostat says the temp is.

HELP!!! This was a huge investment and so far I'm more miserable than I was with our 25 year old unit and old ductwork that we just got rid of.
fire09
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AG
I'd probably start with replacing the wall stat and see if that helps the problem, based on my understanding of your diagnosis.
AJ02
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AG
That was my thought too. That the thermostat wasn't calibrated correctly or was just defective. But I got blown off. I was told "everything you know about which temperature you always set your thermostat to, just throw it out of your head. You need to decide what feels "comfortable" and not pay attention to the number." (Which sounds like total BS). And they also told me "I don't advise people to use those small thermometers to check the temperature elsewhere in the room." Then how the eff am I supposed to have any clue what the temp is in my house?? Thermostats say anywhere from 68 to 90 degrees, and even when it says it's above 80 I have so much condensation on my windows I can't see outside. NONE of it makes any sense. Supposed to be a brand new out-of-the-box thermostat.
AndesAg92
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AG
Not trying to rub salt in the wound but it sounds like you hired the wrong company to do the work based on the little info you provided. I'm all for hiring on the cheap if a trusted rec for "bandaid" or smaller projects, but when it comes to major capital expenditures that can add value to the home on resale, I tend to hire the more expensive and reputable companies to know it's going to be done top of the line.

In short, language barrier on a project of this importance would not be my route.
AJ02
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AG
It most definitely was not a cheap company or project. Very, very well known and large company. Which is part of the reason we were willing to pay the somewhat higher price tag...for the warranty and peace of mind that it was a well-known company who had been in business for decades.
BadAzzBohemian
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AG
Check if the thermostat have humidity setpoints that are interferring.
The System
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AG
Then I would refuse to be blown off after that big of an investment. Get on their ass because the job was not done correctly or to your satisfaction. None of that sounds right. Get them back out there and stay on them until you are satisfied.
Stat Monitor Repairman
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Yeah man, if you short cycling and it's freezing up, that a serious issue.

My guess would be that they busted a leak in something on install and you got leaking refrigerant.
AJ02
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AG
BadAzzBohemian said:

Check if the thermostat have humidity setpoints that are interferring.



Do you know how I would do that? They didn't leave behind the manual for the thermostat, so I'm not even sure what model it is. I know it's a Honeywell wifi enabled.
AJ02
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AG
The System said:

Then I would refuse to be blown off after that big of an investment. Get on their ass because the job was not done correctly or to your satisfaction. None of that sounds right. Get them back out there and stay on them until you are satisfied.


Yeah, I called them out on Thursday and I just put in another call last night. Should be here on Monday. I just want to make sure I'm not a complete effing idiot about all of this. I consider myself a pretty smart person, but I've never had a dual zone, 2 speed system before. So I wasn't sure if it was perhaps something I was doing wrong. I guess just looking for affirmation from others that yes....something definitely sounds wrong with this.
AJ02
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AG
BadAzzBohemian said:

Check if the thermostat have humidity setpoints that are interferring.


I'm wondering if you're on to something. My thermostat currently shows 99% humidity. That CANNOT be right. But I have no idea why that would be or how to fix it.
fire09
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AG
Your contractor is an idiot if he gave you that explanation. Send him notice of noncompliance if he won't come fix it.
P.H. Dexippus
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AG
Adding more return air to fix the system freezing up was likely the right move. Most duct systems don't have enough return air in my (non-professional) experience. You don't want too little air moving across the coil, which causes it to freeze up. It's the same reason a dirty/clogged filter can cause the coil to ice up. The zoning may have compounded the situation.

My guess is something isn't calibrated right by the installer…the zoning damper(s) are crossed, the thermostats, or the dipswitches on the equipment panel itself. The 90s short cycling and the condensation/humidity are big red flags. That kind of cycling will result in a short life for the equipment.

Which brand did you have installed? What size/tonnage? Is the installer certified/preferred provider of that brand?
AJ02
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AG
17 seer, 5 ton, 2 speed carrier
Had it installed by ARS
kubiak03
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AG
You probably spent $20,000 or more with this company and they are blowing you off. You need to ask for the managers number. Threaten bad publicity it you have to and more.

Sounds like a leak.
Mas89
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AG
Are the thermostats new also? A relative had a new unit installed and they installed the wrong thermostat which was not compatible with the new two stage unit.
AJ02
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AG
Yep. New thermostats as well. Honeywell VisionPRO.


We had Ecobee with our old thermostat and never had an issues. But I don't know if Ecobee works with a zoned system. And we need one thermostat upstairs, and one downstairs.
Furlock Bones
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AG
Big well known companies absolutely **** up. Stay on their ass.
AJ02
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AG
Oh definitely. I've been b*tching in one form or another almost daily. Either by service call or voicemail to the people that installed it. They keep wanting us to sign off the work order as completed, but we're refusing until they get us 100% up and running as it should be. Just wanted to make sure my expectations of how it should work weren't completely off-base.
P.H. Dexippus
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AG
If you want to try to mitigate the issues while you wait, you can adjust the settings on the thermostat (pages 16-19). You can limit the number of cycles the compressors run per hour (0220 & 0230). Make sure there's not a remote or outdoor sensor impacting average temperature reading (0340). Change humidity control setting…when active, tends to run system longer, which tends to make it colder than the set point (0380). You can make sure the compressor off period is maximized (0580). Extend fan run time after compressor ends to squeeze more moisture from air (0660). You could also adjust aggressiveness (0690) and temperature calibration (0700).
https://www.completeheating.ca/images/pdf/VisionPro%208000.pdf
AJ02
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AG
Thank you for finding that. They didn't give us any sort of manual for the thermostat.

I noticed a section about the best place to install the thermostat, and I've voiced concerns since day 1. They installed it on an interior wall upstairs, and behind that wall is open attic space. I kept mentioning that the wall feels warm, especially during the day. And I asked if that could be affecting the temperature the thermostat is displaying. Because it's supposed to be so "smart" and pick up on heat signatures. And I was brushed off. In the manual, it mentions not installing it where it can pick up radiant heat from appliances, sun, chimney, uncooled areas like outside wall, etc. So I'm wondering if that could be yet another possibility?

Honestly, I get more and more frustrated at all of these concerns I've voiced over the last week, and I basically got made to feel like I had no idea what I was talking about.
AJ02
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AG
This is behind my thermostat. No insulation, completely open to hot attic area. I'm just shocked that they wouldn't have seen this as a problem and that when I mentioned it, they told me not to worry about it. Incredibly frustrating.
Stat Monitor Repairman
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Yeah man, with a deal like this it might be worth it for you to get another hvac expert on your side. You might spend a couple hundred bucks and find somebody willing consult on the technical aspects of this. Preferably someone who does installs of this brand on a regular basis.

Get a second opinion from a third party is what I'd do.

As much money as you spent on this, if its not installed right, it ain't never gonna be right.

At least in my experience.
Ag_07
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AG
I've got buddies in the home construction and AC business and they say since it's pretty straightforward to do an install that a lot of the bigger name companies are just hiring day laborers and they go for quantity over quality and make insane margins. They'll save their good techs on the repair and troubleshooting stuff.

Sounds like this may a case of just that.
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