Lay was instrumental in getting the stadium built downtown (instead of next to the Dome) but you're taking quite a few liberties with the rest of the story.

The city wasn't going to let the Astros leave right after losing the Oilers.

Microwave Onions said:

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jetch17 said:

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Ferris Wheel Allstar said:

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jetch17 said:

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BRING BACK PISS TROUGHS & DOME FOAM

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I once got banned for changing my username to Dome Foam.

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Probably shoulda just gone with piss trough, instead.

Also, WTF?

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I had to give it some thought, but I think I eventually figured what some prurient & prudish ta staffer might have thought "dome foam" meant. Just focus on the word dome.

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that was the explanation.

Diggity said:

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Lay was instrumental in getting the stadium built downtown (instead of next to the Dome) but you're taking quite a few liberties with the rest of the story.

The city wasn't going to let the Astros leave right after losing the Oilers.

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The old Astros CFO told me Drayton had the deal done to Virginia and felt it was Lay that did more than anyone else to keep the Astros.

No doubt it wasn't just Lay but I think Drayton was much further down the road than most people realize. Drayton wasn't waiting around on a bunch of bureaucrats to maybe make a decision.

I think Lay was a good bit of grease that reduced friction between Drayton and the bureaucrats. Lay didn't have anything to do with the actual building of MMP but I think he was a massive ally to Drayton and kept him cooled down to keep listening rather than pack and go.

Drayton had no real ties to Houston and the Astros were an investment to him. He was ready to go based on what the CFO told me.

My favorite Drayton story is when he bought the team, he had no understanding why the Astros couldnt go undefeated.

I remember that era. Every team in Houston made that threat.

Oilers -> Tennessee
Rockets -> Kentucky
Astros -> DC

Sports owners are a greedy ******* group.

They're business people that buy these teams to make money.

That era saw a massive transition for revenue creation with stadiums. Owners wanted to make more money with their asset. Not sure if that's greed.

A lot of cities saw it as an opportunity to lure a team from a city sitting on its hands. It worked for Nashville who got an NFL team from a city that was sitting on its hands.

I get the sentimental aspect to all of this but in the end the teams are a business that have a finite number. In that era there was more demand than supply so some cities were looking to take advantage of being aggressive.

I'm more shocked it's taken Oakland so long to move and Tampa is gonna stay. Thought those teams would have moved a long time ago.

Also, didn't it take Toyota Center a while to get approved because of Les Alexander and Chuck Watson fighting over it having the capability for a hockey team?

I feel like the first go round got delayed because Chuck Watson fought it publicly and won.

Charlie Pallilo may be the leading expert on what we talking about here.

He could probably spend a week of meticulously breaking down this topic.

There was no more thrilling topic for for Charlie than talking about having NHL team at Toyota center.

Chewy said:

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Also, didn't it take Toyota Center a while to get approved because of Les Alexander and Chuck Watson fighting over it having the capability for a hockey team?

I feel like the first go round got delayed because Chuck Watson fought it publicly and won.

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Les Alexander wouldn't let any hockey team use the Toyota Center unless owned by him.

The Toyota Center that Houston taxes paid for.

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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Charlie Pallilo may be the leading expert on what we talking about here.

He could probably spend a week of meticulously breaking down this topic.

There was no more thrilling topic for for Charlie than talking about having NHL team at Toyota center.

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Could be done in 3 days with his dramatic pauses of dead air.

well it's not a charity. The Rockets have to pay rent to the city for the building and are responsible for upkeep.

I can't really blame the owner for not wanting to have wanting to have another team come in 40 nights a year. Would kill their income from events.

htxag09 said:

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I mean the Astros were already in Minute Maid when crane bought them. But, I do overall agree with your point.

The other thing people seem to not care about in this thread is (other than ticket pricing) crane made games cheaper for families when he bought them. For example, he changed the rules allowing you to bring in your own food. Yeah, tickets got more expensive, but that has more to do with winning than anything.

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The team had just finished the 2011 season with 106 losses and would intentionally tank its way through 2 more seasons with 100+ losses and an additional season with 92 L's . They purged themselves of just about every major league caliber player on the roster. They had to do something to get people in the building because people weren't interested in paying MLB prices to watch a minor league team.

Cynic said:

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Chewy said:

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Also, didn't it take Toyota Center a while to get approved because of Les Alexander and Chuck Watson fighting over it having the capability for a hockey team?

I feel like the first go round got delayed because Chuck Watson fought it publicly and won.

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Les Alexander wouldn't let any hockey team use the Toyota Center unless owned by him.

The Toyota Center that Houston taxes paid for.

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Yep.

I feel like Houston was a shoo-in when the NHL expanded in in the '90s. Chuck Watson was a successful owner and IIRC, Bob McNair joined him in the bid. But Les Alexander ruined it.

it is hard to believe that 2023 is the 24th season of Astros baseball at Minute Maid Park

and, yes, it will be time for a new stadium in 20 years or so

perhaps in Montgomery County

EclipseAg said:

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Cynic said:

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Chewy said:

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Also, didn't it take Toyota Center a while to get approved because of Les Alexander and Chuck Watson fighting over it having the capability for a hockey team?

I feel like the first go round got delayed because Chuck Watson fought it publicly and won.

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Les Alexander wouldn't let any hockey team use the Toyota Center unless owned by him.

The Toyota Center that Houston taxes paid for.

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Yep.

I feel like Houston was a shoo-in when the NHL expanded in in the '90s. Chuck Watson was a successful owner and IIRC, Bob McNair joined him in the bid. But Les Alexander ruined it.

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Well Houston may get another chance since they're on the shortlist for the Tempe Coyotes. The running theory is that Fertitta is the keyholder on this since he had said previously that the only way he'll allow the Toyota Center to be used for hockey is if he owns the team. Not sure Meruelo is willing to sell though.

Booma94 said:

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htxag09 said:

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I mean the Astros were already in Minute Maid when crane bought them. But, I do overall agree with your point.

The other thing people seem to not care about in this thread is (other than ticket pricing) crane made games cheaper for families when he bought them. For example, he changed the rules allowing you to bring in your own food. Yeah, tickets got more expensive, but that has more to do with winning than anything.

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The team had just finished the 2011 season with 106 losses and would intentionally tank its way through 2 more seasons with 100+ losses and an additional season with 92 L's . They purged themselves of just about every major league caliber player on the roster. They had to do something to get people in the building because people weren't interested in paying MLB prices to watch a minor league team.

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If I remember correctly, they still were selling lots of corporate seats.

Also, could have just as easily as taken those options (bring food and water) away once they started doing well and were selling out.

Those losing seasons were just absolutely dreadful. They were selling 10 games for $20. And it was still empty in the stadium

But I sure did enjoy those packages!

htxag09 said:

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Booma94 said:

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htxag09 said:

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I mean the Astros were already in Minute Maid when crane bought them. But, I do overall agree with your point.

The other thing people seem to not care about in this thread is (other than ticket pricing) crane made games cheaper for families when he bought them. For example, he changed the rules allowing you to bring in your own food. Yeah, tickets got more expensive, but that has more to do with winning than anything.

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The team had just finished the 2011 season with 106 losses and would intentionally tank its way through 2 more seasons with 100+ losses and an additional season with 92 L's . They purged themselves of just about every major league caliber player on the roster. They had to do something to get people in the building because people weren't interested in paying MLB prices to watch a minor league team.

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If I remember correctly, they still were selling lots of corporate seats.

Also, could have just as easily as taken those options (bring food and water) away once they started doing well and were selling out.

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The Astros were the ONLY mlb team that didnt allow outside food. McLane's food service company had the contract at the Dome and Minute Maid while he was owner. Sheriff Blaylock's nachos were named after McLane's Grandfather.

digging tunnels said:

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Those losing seasons were just absolutely dreadful. They were selling 10 games for $20. And it was still empty in the stadium

But I sure did enjoy those packages!

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I got one of those packages with a group of about 15 friends. Because the tickets were effectively free you didn't feel obligated to go so on any given day there'd be usually 4-8 of us who showed up. I went to a couple of games by myself. Couple of beers and a hot dog and scored the game. Suited me fine.

Stat Monitor Repairman said:

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Charlie Pallilo may be the leading expert on what we talking about here.

He could probably spend a week of meticulously breaking down this topic.

There was no more thrilling topic for for Charlie than talking about having NHL team at Toyota center.

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I ran into Charlie at the Final Four last month. He still had press credentials. I didnt realize "SportsMap/Palilog" was a big enough player to get Final Four press credentials. Either that or he was the only Gow sports guy willing to actually cover it.

digging tunnels said:

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Those losing seasons were just absolutely dreadful. They were selling 10 games for $20. And it was still empty in the stadium

But I sure did enjoy those packages!

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I had several vendors who knew I still loved going to the games (and lived fairly close). I was basically their fallback if they couldn't give away tickets. My wife and I probably went to 30-50% of home games. Parking and getting in was also easy as hell.

But I'll take these seasons every day.

McLane didn't care about the Astros. What a horrible owner he was. Stole $600 million from Houstonians and built a stadium in Waco with it.

And he wanted to stop beer sales for religious reasons.

No way. The heart of the Astros fan base is Hispanic. They will not move to Montgomery County.

Check out the ballpark passes now. $5 per game.

chlavinka said:

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McLane didn't care about the Astros. What a horrible owner he was. Stole $600 million from Houstonians and built a stadium in Waco with it.

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Honestly, I've really softened my appraisal of Drayton over the years. He's the only Houston sports team owner I've seen walk the stadium and greet regular fans, asking about their experience. Multiple times, in both the Dome and MMP/Enron. I've met or been around some other Houston team owners, but never seen any of the others do that. I know most of us didn''t always agree with all his trades and FA moves, but I think he was genuinely trying to buy a win and bump up the value of the franchise - greedy goals that were concurrent w/ fan interests. Didn't always work out, but no one can say he wasn't engaged. Lance z might do his schtick, but it's ****ing stupid.

I almost bought a Sheriff Blaylock nacho cart on the internet one time, but realized that would have been ridiculous.

htxag09 said:

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Booma94 said:

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htxag09 said:

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I mean the Astros were already in Minute Maid when crane bought them. But, I do overall agree with your point.

The other thing people seem to not care about in this thread is (other than ticket pricing) crane made games cheaper for families when he bought them. For example, he changed the rules allowing you to bring in your own food. Yeah, tickets got more expensive, but that has more to do with winning than anything.

---

The team had just finished the 2011 season with 106 losses and would intentionally tank its way through 2 more seasons with 100+ losses and an additional season with 92 L's . They purged themselves of just about every major league caliber player on the roster. They had to do something to get people in the building because people weren't interested in paying MLB prices to watch a minor league team.

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If I remember correctly, they still were selling lots of corporate seats.

Also, could have just as easily as taken those options (bring food and water) away once they started doing well and were selling out.

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Most MLB parks enacted this around the same time the Astros did and are still doing it.

It's not some sort of Jim being a man of the people thing or whatever.

chlavinka said:

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No way. The heart of the Astros fan base is Hispanic. They will not move to Montgomery County.

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Clearly you haven't seen Splendora, Cleveland, Plum Grove, Cut n Shoot etc lately….

He didn't know baseball and he didn't want to win. He wanted to win just enough games to put fannies in the seats and then he tore the franchise down, took the money, sold us out to the AL, and ran. Sadly you are right, he was better than most Houston team owners.

I don't get the hate for Drayton. He had six post season appearances and a trip to the World Series. It was a damn good era for folks that lived through the 80s and early 90s with McMullen.

He brought in guys like Beltran, Kent, Clemens, and Pettite. He absolutely wanted to win spending money and making moves to better the team on the field.

It's basic knowledge winning means more fans but there's a cost to making those moves and Drayton routinely did it. He could have easily sat on his hands and maximized profit like a lot of owners.

jetch17 said:

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Ferris Wheel Allstar said:

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jetch17 said:

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BRING BACK PISS TROUGHS & DOME FOAM

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I once got banned for changing my username to Dome Foam.

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Probably shoulda just gone with piss trough, instead.

Also, WTF?

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I got banned for having Astrodome Trough as my sock

spadilly said:

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jetch17 said:

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Ferris Wheel Allstar said:

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jetch17 said:

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BRING BACK PISS TROUGHS & DOME FOAM

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I once got banned for changing my username to Dome Foam.

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Probably shoulda just gone with piss trough, instead.

Also, WTF?

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I got banned for having Astrodome Trough as my sock

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Too many mods from Dallas

Or Gabe. Maybe it was Gabe.

If area around MMP is a dump then what is the area around Toyota Center. Toyota Center itself is turning into a dump

Chewy said:

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I don't get the hate for Drayton. He had six post season appearances and a trip to the World Series. It was a damn good era for folks that lived through the 80s and early 90s with McMullen.

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Speaking for myself, I'm sure it was heavily influenced by local sports radio, back when I listened a lot. I shared the view that Drayton was a grocer who just wanted enough butts in the seats to sell nachos and beer.
But we've since had 10-12 years of reporting from non-local baseball guys talking about how radical the Astros approach to farm building has been under Crane. Drayton just made more conventional moves, looking for vets and names in the off-season to get the fans interested and try to stretch out a playoff run. Unfortunately, the age of the roster didn't necessarily mesh with the blessings of a longer season.

To think about the age of the mid 200's stros, some of those dudes are grandfathers now, and have kids playing professionally. Yeah, I know the math checks out, but was still interesting to see Will Wagner playing for the Space Skeeters in an exhibition game against the Stros.

Ah, yes.

Over-the-hill Doug Drabek and Mitch Williams.

Money well spent.