I had a rep from Nivo give me a quote on solar panels for my house. They took my average energy usage and would make that the loan payment for my monthly cost. He said that would take the place of my monthly energy bill.

It is a 25 year loan for $40k (after solar tax credit) so the monthly payment would be $166.

Has anyone else had solar panels installed on their home and what's been your experience? It seems intriguing but I'm trying to figure out what the catch is because at the end of the day they are asking me to finance a $40k loan (lol poors).

25 year payback period - outstanding investment - where do I sign up #sarcasm

That's robbery and I can't believe people actually sign up for it.

Do those panels even last 25 years?

What happens when you want to sell the house before the 25 years is up?

Are they made with Chinese slave labor?

While I'm getting bent over on my new energy contract solar sounds interesting but there is a lot of questionable things about getting them installed. 30-50k is a steep investment for something that doesn't have more than a 7-10 year warranty, not to mention your homeowners will go up to cover it, most homebuyers aren't going to pay extra for it, you will likely have to replace your roof at some point so who is going to remove and reinstall the panels and for how much?

If it was replacing your power bill and covered it's cost within 10 years I could see it but 25 is nuts. No roof or piece of equipment will last that long without needed repairs or an upgrade. This doesn't seem worth it even if the loan interest rate is 0 which I doubt it is.

Door to door panel sales is the new mattress store on every corner.

AlaskanAg99 said:

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Are they made with Chinese slave labor?

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We care about labor when it's solar or batteries.

I may consider that if it included a battery backup and I was in my forever home….even then that's a longer payback then I'd probably consider worth it

Awful deal. You will also have regular maintenance to keep them working properly. Powerwashing, etc.

Their 25 year payback is best case scenario, but unlikely if you consider other expenses and time.

Solar panels can be a good deal in some places, (like my cousin that pays $.48/kWh) but not so much around here.

A few months back my wife fell for their door to door pitch and scheduled an appointment with them.

They pitched it like this...Your panels generate more than you use so every month you're credited an amount based on how much you add to the grid. You can use that to pay off your panels. When your paid off you pocket that money. So in the end it's free.

I laughed and said yeah...No thanks. She later came around and said she should've never fell for the pitch.

Ag_07 said:

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A few months back my wife fell for their door to door pitch and scheduled an appointment with them.

They pitched it like this...Your panels generate more than you use so every month you're credited an amount based on how much you add to the grid. You can use that to pay off your panels. When your paid off you pocket that money. So in the end it's free.

I laughed and said yeah...No thanks. She later came around and said she should've never fell for the pitch.

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Yeah, I told the rep at the beginning there would be nothing signed today. Then when it came time for the paperwork he "forgot" I told him I wasn't signing anything because I'm not buying something on a $40k loan from talking to a sales rep for an hour.

Their claim is they provide a 25-year warranty on the panels and the only thing that isn't covered is lightning strikes.....well that's an issue because we've had 2 issues with lightning strikes in the past.

The rep told me I would make a little extra cash from the extra energy the panels produce but not nearly enough to pay off the panels. He also said the battery units are a waste b/c they are expensive and the technology right now isn't good enough to justify the price. He said a generator as a backup power supply is better at this stage.

The solar panels they used are from Mission Solar which is from San Antonio but that's all I know about them.

After the rep left I talked to a neighbor and a friend who have them but they each had just had them installed recently and they hadn't been hooked up to the grid yet so they couldn't say how they were performing. Each of them is on the same 25-year loan w/a 25-year warranty.

In their pitch, they showed me some 2015 Forbes article about how solar panels make your home easier to sell and more valuable but I called a friend who is in real estate and he said that isn't necessarily the case. If you own the panels then maybe so but not owning them can cause issues when it is time to sell your house.

After sleeping on the info the big issue is the 25-year loan. There is no way I'm going to be tied into a 25-year loan. If it was a 10 year loan then I'd be more willing to try it out, maybe even a 15 year but a 25 year is just too much.

I don't disagree with him that a generator is a better backup option. But solar panels with no backup battery for $40k?!?! lol

And I sure as hell ain't doing solar panels and a $16k generator. Guess they deal with people who generally have more money than sense.

Yeah good luck selling your house with that obligation tied to it.

That loan transfers to the next homeowner. Good luck finding somebody who wants that albatross. You want them to assume your RV loan and college debts too? Also, in Texas, and especially if you have gas to your home, your array will be way too big in the winter if you size it for the summer. And good luck selling it back to the grid. You'll make more money recycling aluminum cans, and there's more places that accept them.

I love how they "decide" the monthly payment should be your average electricity bill over 12 months.

It's like walking into a car dealership and telling the 60 point IQ salesperson what you're currently paying a month and then they figure out which car is best for you.

Curious how hail damage impacts them - I sure hope they sell additional insurance to cover that.

Chewy said:

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I love how they "decide" the monthly payment should be your average electricity bill over 12 months.

It's like walking into a car dealership and telling the 60 point IQ salesperson what you're currently paying a month and then they figure out which car is best for you.

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I guess? The obvious difference is you always have to make a monthly payment for electricity whereas with a car you don't.

I had a coworker who took a different view and compared the cost of the solar panels + batteries to the cost of a backup generator. When he took that view, that the solar would power his house + batteries to get through the night, he felt the breakeven was much closer (a couple of years).

I'm not sure I buy the argument, but that's what he went with.

I'd wager most of the people that fall for this always have a car payment.

It's the classic find out their monthly budget so you can figure out how to milk them as much as possible.

The better is way to start with the true cost/price and work into payments from there.

I would at least talk with Tesla if I was serious about home solar. I think they have a rental program where you can end service and they will remove the panels and equipment.

AgLiving06 said:

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Chewy said:

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I love how they "decide" the monthly payment should be your average electricity bill over 12 months.

It's like walking into a car dealership and telling the 60 point IQ salesperson what you're currently paying a month and then they figure out which car is best for you.

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I guess? The obvious difference is you always have to make a monthly payment for electricity whereas with a car you don't.

I had a coworker who took a different view and compared the cost of the solar panels + batteries to the cost of a backup generator. When he took that view, that the solar would power his house + batteries to get through the night, he felt the breakeven was much closer (a couple of years).

I'm not sure I buy the argument, but that's what he went with.

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Except the solar panels don't work when the power is off. Batteries are fine for a couple hours, but not days. I went down this thought line too and decided it wouldn't do what I wanted, so I moved on to other ideas. There is a thread in home improvement that covers it pretty well.

I have no need for solar nor do I finance anything long term, but curious, why is a 25 year loan they are offering so bad compared to say a 10 year? Unless it is drastically affects the interest rate, can't you just pay more principal each month to treat it like a shorter loan? Seams like it puts more risk on tje company to allow you to extend it that long. Or do they not let you pay it off early?

Solar panels work fine when the grid isn't available as long as you have a grid-forming system.

I looked at it a year ago and Tesla was offering a low rate 20 yr note that would have had me cash positive for power assuming my bill stayed the same. Hard to argue with that, but my roof is old and reinstalling the panels to fix a roof wrecked the economics. Now the rates have gone up…but so has the cost of power. In hindsight between inflation and likely rising power costs it probably was a good deal.

The only real way to evaluate stuff like this is net present value but you still have to make some guesses.

Milwaukees Best Light said:

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AgLiving06 said:

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Chewy said:

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I love how they "decide" the monthly payment should be your average electricity bill over 12 months.

It's like walking into a car dealership and telling the 60 point IQ salesperson what you're currently paying a month and then they figure out which car is best for you.

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I guess? The obvious difference is you always have to make a monthly payment for electricity whereas with a car you don't.

I had a coworker who took a different view and compared the cost of the solar panels + batteries to the cost of a backup generator. When he took that view, that the solar would power his house + batteries to get through the night, he felt the breakeven was much closer (a couple of years).

I'm not sure I buy the argument, but that's what he went with.

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Except the solar panels don't work when the power is off. Batteries are fine for a couple hours, but not days. I went down this thought line too and decided it wouldn't do what I wanted, so I moved on to other ideas. There is a thread in home improvement that covers it pretty well.

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Pretty positive this is incorrect. You can have your solar panels work independently of the grid but have to have the battery (the large expense) and a transfer switch.

Most homes weren't able to turn on the lights even though they had solar panels during the freeze because they didn't have a battery system.

I should have been more specific. Yes, the system can still work, but to get the components to make it work when the power is off, the cost goes up a bunch. The standard package they are selling you, with the break even point stated in this thread, will not work when the power is out.

Ill just wait for an on-demand green hydrogen fuel cell.

I've always been curious what a one day back up battery, charged slowly by a minimal array would cost. Lots of mobile units like this coming out for camping/tailgating. Just for emergencies.

For me the sell on powering the home w/solar doesn't work yet, just too expensive and they don't generate enough power

Battery capabilities are what is holding solar back at a macro and micro level.

If we had the ability to efficiently and cost-effectively store power, it would be an absolute game changer for energy. This is why things like Griddy failed.

https://texags.com/forums/61/topics/3296020

Here's how I looked at it. A Powerwall is 13 kWh which is enough to run your house for a few hours with AC, and a day or two without it. The big loads are AC and electric oven / stove. I figured I can control those as needed in an outage scenario.

I got the smallest system Tesla would sell me - 4 kW of panels and one battery. That was $19.5k before the tax credit. 8 kW of panels with one battery was $28k at the time. That was all I can fit on my garage south and west facing roof line, so when I have replace my roof in a few years it shouldn't be as big of hassle to deal with the panels.

Tesla financed it at 0.99% for 60 months, so my payment is $250. They structure the payment so that if you give them the tax credit as a one-time payment your monthly payment is steady, if not it kicks up after 18 months (in my case to $375).

The 4 kW system covers around 40% of my annual consumption. It works fine with a simple fixed rate plan because I never "over produce". If you over produce you are wasting the electricity you send to the grid from a financial perspective unless you have a net metering plan. With the 8 kW system I'd over produce in the winter months.

There's a group called Texas Power Guide that will do a plan analysis for you. With their help I found a plan that's 21 cents per kWh from 7 am to 9 pm and free (even credits for TDU charges) from 9 pm to 7 am.

I set my thermostat to pre-cool my house so it starts around 68 at 7 am. The house uses a little power til the sun comes up enough for the panels to cover the small loads around 8:30 or 9. The battery charges til 3:30 when the AC kicks on, then solar + battery cover the load until around 7:30 or 8.

Back in April it was cool enough that I didn't use paid grid power at all, and my bills for the last three months have been around $55. So I'm all in $250 in the winter to $315 per month in the summer, average around $280 year round. After I pay off the note in a couple of years it'll just be the monthly electricity usage.

Before I was averaging around $150 per month using Energy Ogre. Not sure what kind of rate they'd have me in now, but I guess it would be at least 25% higher so maybe $185?

At current prices I break even after 8 years. In the meantime I rationalize the difference as a monthly $100 backup power fee. This year we've had 13 backup events, most of them short. The longest one was 8 hours though. I'm happy with the system so far. YMMV.

There is a middle ground here. I just finished my first month with a DIY solar kit. 1,560 watts (at 12v) with an all in one mppt charge controller and 24v inverter. Two 100 ah LIFEPO4 batteries in series. During the day I run a window unit from like 10-5 to help out my central AC. Also runs my deep freezer outside 24/7. Cost was 3500 or so.

Haven't finished it all the way yet, going to add some more panels to get better east-west coverage and get power flowing longer during the day. Also can wire 110v into the smart controller to use grid power. Ultimately I will have it wired into a small 4 panel transfer switch where I will run my most used 15amp breakers on "GEN" all the time. Power will feed from panels when sun is shining and grid at night (inverter / controller has a built in neutral / ground relay to handle the neutral / ground bond from grid vs solar).

Later on I will probably add more batteries, but July power usage was down 10% or so from June, so I feel like its a good way to have backup gen capacity that helps out every day.

I've had several solar quotes and the best quote I've received (based on shoddy assumptions to begin with) was $0.14 per kWh to cover 100% of my existing need for 25 years. Doesn't make sense.

MrWonderful said:

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There is a middle ground here. I just finished my first month with a DIY solar kit. 1,560 watts (at 12v) with an all in one mppt charge controller and 24v inverter. Two 100 ah LIFEPO4 batteries in series. During the day I run a window unit from like 10-5 to help out my central AC. Also runs my deep freezer outside 24/7. Cost was 3500 or so.

Haven't finished it all the way yet, going to add some more panels to get better east-west coverage and get power flowing longer during the day. Also can wire 110v into the smart controller to use grid power. Ultimately I will have it wired into a small 4 panel transfer switch where I will run my most used 15amp breakers on "GEN" all the time. Power will feed from panels when sun is shining and grid at night (inverter / controller has a built in neutral / ground relay to handle the neutral / ground bond from grid vs solar).

Later on I will probably add more batteries, but July power usage was down 10% or so from June, so I feel like its a good way to have backup gen capacity that helps out every day.

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That is extremely interesting. If you don't mind, where did you purchase the kit and was there a guide you followed?

cupcakesprinkles said:

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That is extremely interesting. If you don't mind, where did you purchase the kit and was there a guide you followed?

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I bought an eco-worthy kit (the 8x 195w panels), but that's because, being my first foray into solar, I wanted everything in a kit. The reality is you could save a fortune by getting the panels you want off of craigslist. Get PV wiring and a PV combiner from any number of places. Wire your panels in 48v series and then run those to your PV combiner (which connects to your mppt charge controller / inverter unit)

For the inverter / charge controller, I would recommend this one. Lot of cool features without being too hard to setup and expandable for split phase if you want to grow the system to be a whole house system later.

https://watts247.com/product/spf-3000tl-lvm-24p/

Batteries I got are here - working well so far

https://www.timeusbpower.com/products/12-8v-100ah-lifepo4-battery

Madmarttigan said:

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While I'm getting bent over on my new energy contract solar sounds interesting but there is a lot of questionable things about getting them installed. 30-50k is a steep investment for something that doesn't have more than a 7-10 year warranty, not to mention your homeowners will go up to cover it, most homebuyers aren't going to pay extra for it, you will likely have to replace your roof at some point so who is going to remove and reinstall the panels and for how much?

If it was replacing your power bill and covered it's cost within 10 years I could see it but 25 is nuts. No roof or piece of equipment will last that long without needed repairs or an upgrade. This doesn't seem worth it even if the loan interest rate is 0 which I doubt it is.

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Most solar parts have lifetime warranties... now might not cover labor, but the parts themselves should last 25 years.

A lot of that service down the line will depend on the installer and who is financing that loan. Most have an element of maintenance in the agreement to make sure the solar keeps working, but I'm sure that's a dealer by dealer arrangement you'd want to get clarity on what is provided.


What is your current power bill and how much is OP saving on the $166 payment? That's the question, not the 25 year term, IMO.