The auto auto tip part doesn't fly with me but I normally will tip well based on my interaction with the servers. I know all to well that most of the stuff that delays food is not their fault. Bet the masses don't ever look at their bills and just roll with the auto tip and add more on top these days just because they're too lazy to care.

I've struggled these days buying a few Bottles of good wine and while out and thinking about the amount of effort the waiter put into opening a bottle and providing a glass and then tipping on $150 for that service. That's why I guess I drink my good wine at home on my back porch

Sea Speed said:

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I waited tables as soon as I turned 18 and went back to it when I finally got my happy ass to college in my mid 20s, doing some o&g work in between. I'm not sure i could ever suck up to the unwashed masses again like you have to to be a server. It can be downright humiliating. I find it awkward to be waited on these days and if it was possible I'd order everything from a kiosk, even at a fine dining joint. Id even tip the rest of the staff so long as I didn't have to talk to anyone.

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I couldn't agree more. Having worked as a waiter as well, nothing ruins a dining out experience for me more than a waiter who is trying to get chummy up to me in order to get a better tip. Outside of rare exceptions, most people aren't going out to eat for the waiter experience. You are usually going for the food. At nice restaurants the waiter can be informational and helpful to improving your experience, but nine times out of ten they are just the middleman that could be replaced with tablet.

I feel if a restaurant wants to have people help sell their dishes and make customers feel like royalty being served, then pay them like actual employees rather than force them to hustle in hopes they got a good table that wont stiff em.

ATM9000 said:

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My biggest problem with tipping is people pretend they tip based on level of service but in reality most people actually judge not on level of service but level of deference they get.

This is why breastaurants were/are a viable thing. Waitstaff don't stick around those places because they actually think your jokes are hilarious and that their clientele are badasses. But they know they'll make larger tips slinging the cheap chicken wings and beers in their little shorts solely for flirting a little with their customers and nothing else rather than providing any better service. It's all about deference.

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I disagree.

Breastaraunts work because we men are weaklings when it comes to a hot chick with her boobs hanging out acting flirty and rubbing said boobs against you a little. I know it was a Twin Peaks the last time but I'm thinking it's legitimately been 10 years since I've been to one and the song never changes. There's a handful of stereotypical clientele there and they're either tipping extra because they're lonely, they've got some nagging hausfrau at home, or they're dumb enough to think that tipping is going to get the waitresses' real phone number.

Tipping at a nice restaurant is when a server is knowledgeable, on the spot with their service, and frankly knows when to stay away from the table vs. when to be at the table. The service at a high-end spot isn't about deference, it's knowledge and savvy. There's a reason guys at a place like Galatoire's or Antoine's in New Orleans have been there waiting tables for 40 years. Same thing at Bern's in Tampa- you have to train for 2 years before they'll let you be a lead waiter. It's not the same as waiting tables at Outback or Bennigan's in college (which is tremendous life experience by the way).

I 100% disagree that the waiter (and definitely not the sommelier) at a high end restaurant could be replaced by a tablet. But that's 100% true at any TGiMcChiliBee's you'd go to.

TarponChaser said:

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I 100% disagree that the waiter (and definitely not the sommelier) at a high end restaurant could be replaced by a tablet. But that's 100% true at any TGiMcChiliBee's you'd go to.

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But if you're implying that you should tip the sommelier 20% on a bottle of wine, I disagree. That bottle is marked up 2..3..4x as is. So I should then turn around and tip the somm basically the retail price of that bottle? What does that markup cover?

Either way, between the markup and how crazy tip expectations have become, we've defaulted to BYOB restaurants for all our meals where we want to enjoy a nice bottle of wine.

htxag09 said:

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TarponChaser said:

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I 100% disagree that the waiter (and definitely not the sommelier) at a high end restaurant could be replaced by a tablet. But that's 100% true at any TGiMcChiliBee's you'd go to.

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But if you're implying that you should tip the sommelier 20% on a bottle of wine, I disagree. That bottle is marked up 2..3..4x as is. So I should then turn around and tip the somm basically the retail price of that bottle? What does that markup cover?

Either way, between the markup and how crazy tip expectations have become, we've defaulted to BYOB restaurants for all our meals where we want to enjoy a nice bottle of wine.

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I'm not sure how the sommelier is compensated at a nice restaurant. I usually just tip 20% on the total bill.

Quote:

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It's not the same as waiting tables at Outback or Bennigan's in college (which is tremendous life experience by the way).

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Anyone who waited tables during college knows that this "life experience", in addition to learning some work effort, multi-tasking, efficiency, etc., was hooking up, a lot, with the rest of the staff. Restaurants were the match.com (or whatever the online casual hookup site is) of the 80s.

Since the pandemic started, every place that we've been to that didn't have a long-term regular staff has had horrible service. We're sticking to our family, neighborhood joints now with the wait staff that we've known for years because their service is always reliable.

TarponChaser said:

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ATM9000 said:

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My biggest problem with tipping is people pretend they tip based on level of service but in reality most people actually judge not on level of service but level of deference they get.

This is why breastaurants were/are a viable thing. Waitstaff don't stick around those places because they actually think your jokes are hilarious and that their clientele are badasses. But they know they'll make larger tips slinging the cheap chicken wings and beers in their little shorts solely for flirting a little with their customers and nothing else rather than providing any better service. It's all about deference.

---

I disagree.

Breastaraunts work because we men are weaklings when it comes to a hot chick with her boobs hanging out acting flirty and rubbing said boobs against you a little. I know it was a Twin Peaks the last time but I'm thinking it's legitimately been 10 years since I've been to one and the song never changes. There's a handful of stereotypical clientele there and they're either tipping extra because they're lonely, they've got some nagging hausfrau at home, or they're dumb enough to think that tipping is going to get the waitresses' real phone number.

Tipping at a nice restaurant is when a server is knowledgeable, on the spot with their service, and frankly knows when to stay away from the table vs. when to be at the table. The service at a high-end spot isn't about deference, it's knowledge and savvy. There's a reason guys at a place like Galatoire's or Antoine's in New Orleans have been there waiting tables for 40 years. Same thing at Bern's in Tampa- you have to train for 2 years before they'll let you be a lead waiter. It's not the same as waiting tables at Outback or Bennigan's in college (which is tremendous life experience by the way).

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There a PLENTY of these girls who do give out their phone numbers for the right amount of "tips".

I knew a few girls that worked at Hooters way back when that was one of the only ones around, and there was a "regular" that had paid for a few of the bolt ons in the restaurant.

I'd tip extra if I didn't have to hear about the chef's specials. Ready to order, menu closed enjoying wine and then have to pay attention to chaz for 3 minutes going over dry aged tomahawk and chilean seabass. Both of which I'm sure are amazing.

Never waited tables but I delivered pizzas for 4 years in high school & college. Think getting stiffed by a table is bad, try driving out to the boonies and not only getting stiffed on the tip but they hand you a check, slam the door, and then you realize they refused to pay the one dollar long distance delivery fee. Oh well, they got some boondocks payback to their mailbox or car I'm sure after we had some boones farm or stones soon after.

TarponChaser said:

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I 100% disagree that the waiter (and definitely not the sommelier) at a high end restaurant could be replaced by a tablet. But that's 100% true at any TGiMcChiliBee's you'd go to.

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That's why I said the exception is at a high end restaurant. However that is also probably the only example where a waiter would probably make less by going to a salary system rather than relying on tips.

Seeing how the original topic is mandatory 20% tips, I bet a restaurant would actually piss less people off if they just increase their menu items by 15-20% and paid their staff a wage above $2.13/hour rather than hitting you with a mandatory 20% tip that leaves a sour taste in your mouth.

TarponChaser said:

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I 100% disagree that the waiter (and definitely not the sommelier) at a high end restaurant could be replaced by a tablet. But that's 100% true at any TGiMcChiliBee's you'd go to.

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Applebees & Chilis have tablets where you can order & pay while your kid isn't playing the built in games.

HtownAg92 said:

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Quote:

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It's not the same as waiting tables at Outback or Bennigan's in college (which is tremendous life experience by the way).

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Anyone who waited tables during college knows that this "life experience", in addition to learning some work effort, multi-tasking, efficiency, etc., was hooking up, a lot, with the rest of the staff. Restaurants were the match.com (or whatever the online casual hookup site is) of the 8090s.

Since the pandemic started, every place that we've been to that didn't have a long-term regular staff has had horrible service. We're sticking to our family, neighborhood joints now with the wait staff that we've known for years because their service is always reliable.

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FIFM.

cajunaggie08 said:

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TarponChaser said:

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I 100% disagree that the waiter (and definitely not the sommelier) at a high end restaurant could be replaced by a tablet. But that's 100% true at any TGiMcChiliBee's you'd go to.

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That's why I said the exception is at a high end restaurant. However that is also probably the only example where a waiter would probably make less by going to a salary system rather than relying on tips.

Seeing how the original topic is mandatory 20% tips, I bet a restaurant would actually piss less people off if they just increase their menu items by 15-20% and paid their staff a wage above $2.13/hour rather than hitting you with a mandatory 20% tip that leaves a sour taste in your mouth.

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So you did. I misread your post on the matter.

But, as for a place like Moxie's, if they raised prices 20% to cover wages rather than auto-tipping 20% they'd lose half their business IMHO.

I hate the tablet thing so much. I hate paying at the table. I hate the server tapping in their tablet while you are ordering. I hate the games at the table. I hate all of that.

edited to add:
I like hearing the specials.

TarponChaser said:

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ATM9000 said:

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My biggest problem with tipping is people pretend they tip based on level of service but in reality most people actually judge not on level of service but level of deference they get.

This is why breastaurants were/are a viable thing. Waitstaff don't stick around those places because they actually think your jokes are hilarious and that their clientele are badasses. But they know they'll make larger tips slinging the cheap chicken wings and beers in their little shorts solely for flirting a little with their customers and nothing else rather than providing any better service. It's all about deference.

---

I disagree.

Breastaraunts work because we men are weaklings when it comes to a hot chick with her boobs hanging out acting flirty and rubbing said boobs against you a little. I know it was a Twin Peaks the last time but I'm thinking it's legitimately been 10 years since I've been to one and the song never changes. There's a handful of stereotypical clientele there and they're either tipping extra because they're lonely, they've got some nagging hausfrau at home, or they're dumb enough to think that tipping is going to get the waitresses' real phone number.

Tipping at a nice restaurant is when a server is knowledgeable, on the spot with their service, and frankly knows when to stay away from the table vs. when to be at the table. The service at a high-end spot isn't about deference, it's knowledge and savvy. There's a reason guys at a place like Galatoire's or Antoine's in New Orleans have been there waiting tables for 40 years. Same thing at Bern's in Tampa- you have to train for 2 years before they'll let you be a lead waiter. It's not the same as waiting tables at Outback or Bennigan's in college (which is tremendous life experience by the way).

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Yeah I mean I just don't think people judge service the way you do. I think most people's base on tip isn't based on balance of service but rather how nice the server is to them.

Of course breastaurants and fine dining are different but those waitresses could screw up everybody's order, bring the wrong beers out all night and as long as they rub their customers arms abs laugh loud and often at their dumbass jokes, they will fare ok on the gratuity on that table. And I say breastaurants, but let's be honest it really goes for any nice looking waitress to a table of the opposite sex. They can **** your order up and ignore a lot of customers every night, but if they come up towards the end of the night and talk to the table, flirt a little… they'll still get 20%. It is the most extreme example of this I think, but that's what I mean when I say deference is usually vastly more important than quality when it comes to service.

And also why the whole tipping waitstaff economy is dumb.

swimmerbabe11 said:

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I hate the tablet thing so much. I hate paying at the table. I hate the server tapping in their tablet while you are ordering. I hate the games at the table. I hate all of that.

edited to add:
I like hearing the specials.

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I like paying on the handheld POS at the table as it makes it harder for someone to jack your card info. But also makes it harder for me to get a charge updated when they ring up a full price beer during happy hour (PRESLEES) since you don't see the line items until they put your card in.

Moxie's is this way due to the 'demographic' of their customers...... this is not racist, it is statistically factual that certain demographics tip very very poorly.

Also, its pretty common in other parts of the country for restaurants in touristy parts of town.

Milwaukees Best Light said:

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What about a real estate agent who lists a10,000,000 property? Was listing the place on har and zillow really worth 300k?

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So. Much. This.

A damn racket.

Dill-Ag13 said:

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I figure there are plenty of opportunities for me to save money. Tipping a waiter/waitress is not one of the places I do that and generally try to tip 25%.

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Dude, it isn't about saving a dime.

It's about the fact that it is a "tip" and not part of the cost of the meal. When it's auto added and you cant change it to something else, it isn't a tip. It's a fee, and it's BS.

The waiter/watress doesn't deserve 20% just because you walked in the door. The entire point of a tip is to reward good or great service, not to add to the cost of the meal just because.

If you don't want to tip, go to a fast food place, cook at home, or get carry out.
There are plenty of options.


I see it this way. Tipping well is a reward for poor service, tipping poorly is for poor service/bad attitude, and tipping a reasonable standard amount is the cost of doing business/opportunity cost etc.
Going out to eat is an enjoyable experience and event, so tipping is indeed part of that budget, because the server is part of making that event pleasant. I pay the restaurant for the food, I pay the server for the experience.

ea1060 said:

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kevmiller said:

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Wife and tried something different past weekend and went to restaurant near Galleria.. Moxies
Not bad , Not great , overpriced as expected.
Suprised when receive the bill they automatically added a 20% tip, manager refused to take it off.

Is this common in Houston ?

Not sure how a restaurant can add and enforce that.
Waitress was ok but not $30 tip for 2 people and were there less than an hour.
Overpriced food IMO does not mean you get bigger tip

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So what would you have tipped if not for the 20% auto grat? Customers like you are the reason why restaurants include the auto grat lol.

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It may have been 0%, it may have been 35% - but that would 100% depend on the quality of the service, food, etc. What incentive does a watier have to do a good job if they are automatically getting a 20% tip? None.

So the quality of the service goes down, the auto gratiuity keeps going up. And lemmings who base their worth in life on how much they tip keep towing the line I guess.

kevmiller said:

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Wife and tried something different past weekend and went to restaurant near Galleria.. Moxies
Not bad , Not great , overpriced as expected.
Suprised when receive the bill they automatically added a 20% tip, manager refused to take it off.

Is this common in Houston ?

Not sure how a restaurant can add and enforce that.
Waitress was ok but not $30 tip for 2 people and were there less than an hour.
Overpriced food IMO does not mean you get bigger tip

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They probably do that because of the hood rat crowd that goes there. Probably lots of folks skipping out on tabs or not leaving tips. The galleria area is really a cesspool these days.

I have never seen an auto tip that wasn't less than what I would have given on my own. Their loss.

Camo said:

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Moxie's is this way due to the 'demographic' of their customers...... this is not racist, it is statistically factual that certain demographics tip very very poorly.

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Why is this a thing, tho. Are black folks aware they are perceived as bad tippers? Do they GAS?

JSKolache said:

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Camo said:

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Moxie's is this way due to the 'demographic' of their customers...... this is not racist, it is statistically factual that certain demographics tip very very poorly.

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Why is this a thing, tho. Are black folks aware they are perceived as bad tippers? Do they GAS?

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Its been a thing for at least 20 years, and was talked about by waiters of every race at the restaurants i worked at. Black folks i worked with never wanted to wait on black folks. The most insulting tips I ever got were from black tables. I'm talking like $2 on $200 type tips. Just infuriating. The poster earlier who said poor tips can literally cost the servers money is correct. Happened to me on more than one occasion. Last time it happened I walked out of the restaurant and quit. Screw losing money at work.

black people wanted to wait on black people the least and for some reason had a higher probability of being stiffed.

although, I found that the black people who tip, tipped very generously.

coconutED said:

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I have never seen an auto tip that wasn't less than what I would have given on my own. Their loss.

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Everyone says this, but if you are in a big group then you really have no idea how others are tipping. The reality is in a large party with split checks: you will have most tip 18-20%, a few tip 15%, and some might tip 10% or less. The waiter comes out ahead most of the time by adding the auto gratuity.

You are always free to tip more if the auto gratuity isn't enough for you lol.

JSKolache said:

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Camo said:

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Moxie's is this way due to the 'demographic' of their customers...... this is not racist, it is statistically factual that certain demographics tip very very poorly.

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Why is this a thing, tho. Are black folks aware they are perceived as bad tippers? Do they GAS?

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Yes, it is a stereotype that black people are bad tippers, and in my experience its 100% true. When I was a waiter I would say about 80% of black tables I had would tip 10% or less. Not only that, but they could be rude, try and get free stuff, complain, start fights, and try and walk out on the tab. The restaurant I worked at had to hire police officers because the situation was out of control.

But Im sure its not just black customers that tip poorly at Moxies. The rich Mexican nationals from Mexico City or Monterrey are known to make frequent weekend shopping trips at the galleria. Literally they visit Houston from Mexico just for the weekend to buy a bunch of clothes at the galleria and then go back home. They also tip poorly and treat the waitstaff like crap. Moxies probably has the auto gratuity because these types of customers frequent Moxies.

My wife worked at a popular seafood restaurant in the early 90's during nursing school that was frequented by Oilers and Rockets. A couple of leaders on both teams were aware of the stereotype and would bring in black rookies and educate them on dining manners and tipping. She said Lamar Lathon was the best.

For people who never worked in the service industry, there's no shortage of articles on the topic, mostly blaming historic and systemic racism - without denying the stereotype:

https://www.google.com/search?q=why+black+people+dont+tip&oq=why+black+people+dont+tip&aqs=chrome..69i57.4070j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

HtownAg92 said:

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My wife worked at a popular seafood restaurant in the early 90's during nursing school that was frequented by Oilers and Rockets. A couple of leaders on both teams were aware of the stereotype and would bring in black rookies and educate them on dining manners and tipping. She said Lamar Lathon was the best.

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Pappadeaux or Joe's Crab Shack?

JSKolache said:

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Camo said:

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Moxie's is this way due to the 'demographic' of their customers...... this is not racist, it is statistically factual that certain demographics tip very very poorly.

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Why is this a thing, tho. Are black folks aware they are perceived as bad tippers? Do they GAS?

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GF in college worked at a few restaurants there in CS and before that in Houston. Nobody wanted to be the one that got stuck with the sunday after church crowd or black families because both were notorious for demanding a crap load of attention and leaving squat for tips. They always wanted the couple out on a date because, generally speaking, decent service was going to solicit a good tip because the dude wanted to impress his date, regardless of color.

My little bro worked at Bennigans in CS for a while and said the same thing. He almost got fired once for chasing a family out the door and giving them their change that they tried to leave for a tip. It was something like $3 on probably a $40-$60 meal. Dude went back and complained to the manager about it, bro got a huge dressing down and nearly fired over it, even though the manager completely understood his point.

Stereotypes exist for a reason, and it isn't because whitey needs a reason to make fun of somebody else. They exist because, in general, a group that shares the same characteristics acts in nearly the same manner wherever you go.

The less I thought someone was going to tip, the more likely I was to give the best most attentive, kindest, best service I could. That way when I was stiffed, there was no doubt in my mind that I did nothing to deserve it.

The worst were folks that would tell you how great you were and how much they enjoyed everything and then stiff you. LIke their kind words could pay for an 8ball and a bottle of whiskey.