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1310 The Ticket - Hardline Question

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Macarthur
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In reply to AgGrad99 • 2:29p, 5/4/23
AgGrad99 said:
Well if socialist isnt the right word, he doesnt have a point....because his point was about socialism.
lol...

I wasn't listening so maybe I'm way off, but I think the point he might be making is that pro sports teams get tons of benefits that they really would not get in a free market. Teams revenue share so that's not exactly capitalistic. So essentially it is a very unique and protected market situation.
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AgGrad99
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In reply to Macarthur • 2:37p, 5/4/23
AG
Ha. I understand.

But there is a giant world of nuance in that conversation. It's not as simple as saying 'because this private league, with privately owned teams, who have established a set of private rules for themselves is socialist. So we like socialism.'

He's applying rules of oranges to apples. It reminds me of a discussion with a teenager learning the concepts for the first time, and confusing political systems with private industry.

But again, love me some Dan. He is great at sharing his opinion (whether I think it's misguided or not), without beating me over the head with it. He's just him, and he's entertaining.

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TriAg2010
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2:42p, 5/4/23
AG
It was a very bizarre point by Dan and not the first time he made it.
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TriAg2010
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In reply to Macarthur • 2:53p, 5/4/23
AG
Macarthur said:
AgGrad99 said:
Well if socialist isnt the right word, he doesnt have a point....because his point was about socialism.
lol...

I wasn't listening so maybe I'm way off, but I think the point he might be making is that pro sports teams get tons of benefits that they really would not get in a free market. Teams revenue share so that's not exactly capitalistic. So essentially it is a very unique and protected market situation.


Dan's observation was that:
i.) League drafts favor the under-performing franchises and basically help the underdog teams.
ii.) If you tried to do that in any other setting, it would be deemed socialism
iii.) People all say they hate socialism, but everyone loves a socialist policy that results in parity among sports teams.

There enumerable flaws in the argument that if you like parity in sports leagues that you should therefore also like socialism in other walks of life.
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The Pilot
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3:02p, 5/4/23
AG
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Legal Custodian
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In reply to Macarthur • 3:21p, 5/4/23
AG
Macarthur said:
Maybe socialist isn't the right word but he has a point
I did always find it odd that one of the most free-market economies in the world (USA) has a sports landscape most resembling socialism (Big4 with salary cap, profit sharing, drafts, etc.)

While the most socialistic economies (Europe) has a sports landscape most resembling a free market (Euro soccer with no salary cap, promotion/relegation, academies, etc.)
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agchino
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In reply to Legal Custodian • 3:59p, 5/4/23
AG
MLB doesn't have a salary cap, and you could argue that they have an academy system.
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Legal Custodian
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In reply to agchino • 4:06p, 5/4/23
AG
agchino said:
MLB doesn't have a salary cap, and you could argue that they have an academy system.
Not a salary cap but luxury tax, right? And I don't really consider the minor leagues to be on the same par as academies across the pond. Main point that any academy can scout a 13 year old and sign him to a deal while the minor leagues are populated by players selected in the draft.
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4:15p, 5/4/23
AG
Not to get on a soap box, but I will any way.

The fact that MLS is not a promotion/relegation format is a tragedy. I believe the sport would grow exponentially now if they announced in 4-5 years time that they were transitioning to a promotion relegation system.

I understand back in the 90s at the start of MLS that it wasn't feasible, but the groundswell of support for small market teams would be amazing if a Fort Worth FC or a SC Louisville would get promoted into the top tier. Soccer is such a intimate and location driven sport that you'll never get the entire metroplex into FC Dallas. The Metroplex honestly needs 5-6 teams of varying degrees to grow the sport to be a huge player.

Even if it's something as simple as a top tier league (MLS) and 4 geographically centered 2nd tier leagues whose champions play in a 4 team playoff. That limits expenses (travel) and keeps it uniquely American. Even if it's just one team going down and up, the drama would be electric.
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Macarthur
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In reply to Legal Custodian • 4:20p, 5/4/23
Legal Custodian said:
Not to get on a soap box, but I will any way.

The fact that MLS is not a promotion/relegation format is a tragedy. I believe the sport would grow exponentially now if they announced in 4-5 years time that they were transitioning to a promotion relegation system.

I understand back in the 90s at the start of MLS that it wasn't feasible, but the groundswell of support for small market teams would be amazing if a Fort Worth FC or a SC Louisville would get promoted into the top tier. Soccer is such a intimate and location driven sport that you'll never get the entire metroplex into FC Dallas. The Metroplex honestly needs 5-6 teams of varying degrees to grow the sport to be a huge player.

Even if it's something as simple as a top tier league (MLS) and 4 geographically centered 2nd tier leagues whose champions play in a 4 team playoff. That limits expenses (travel) and keeps it uniquely American. Even if it's just one team going down and up, the drama would be electric.


I'm not a big soccer guy but I could probably get into this. I'm in San Antonio so having several regional rivalries would help too, you think?
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Legal Custodian
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In reply to Macarthur • 4:29p, 5/4/23
AG
Macarthur said:
Legal Custodian said:
Not to get on a soap box, but I will any way.

The fact that MLS is not a promotion/relegation format is a tragedy. I believe the sport would grow exponentially now if they announced in 4-5 years time that they were transitioning to a promotion relegation system.

I understand back in the 90s at the start of MLS that it wasn't feasible, but the groundswell of support for small market teams would be amazing if a Fort Worth FC or a SC Louisville would get promoted into the top tier. Soccer is such a intimate and location driven sport that you'll never get the entire metroplex into FC Dallas. The Metroplex honestly needs 5-6 teams of varying degrees to grow the sport to be a huge player.

Even if it's something as simple as a top tier league (MLS) and 4 geographically centered 2nd tier leagues whose champions play in a 4 team playoff. That limits expenses (travel) and keeps it uniquely American. Even if it's just one team going down and up, the drama would be electric.


I'm not a big soccer guy but I could probably get into this. I'm in San Antonio so having several regional rivalries would help too, you think?
Absolutely! Most cities that don't have a professional sports team (not that SA doesn't have one) would be champing at the bit to get a soccer team with the promise of potentially making it to the big leagues. I feel like most major cities in Texas (DFW, Houston, Austin, San Antonio) could support multiple teams of varying degrees.

Just being a Fort Worth guy, I know Fort Worth would go nuts to have something of their own. An outdoor soccer stadium (doubling as a concert venue) downtown where the Brahma's used to play would be magical.

It just seems like there's so many untapped markets. Hell, even something like Waco or New Braunfels having a team and working their way up to the 2nd tier league would be a huge story and a huge boost to their economies and city pride.
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Macarthur
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In reply to Legal Custodian • 4:37p, 5/4/23
El Paso. Maybe Amarillo.
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J.P. 03
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In reply to Legal Custodian • 8:19p, 5/4/23
AG
Legal Custodian said:
Macarthur said:
Maybe socialist isn't the right word but he has a point
I did always find it odd that one of the most free-market economies in the world (USA) has a sports landscape most resembling socialism (Big4 with salary cap, profit sharing, drafts, etc.)

While the most socialistic economies (Europe) has a sports landscape most resembling a free market (Euro soccer with no salary cap, promotion/relegation, academies, etc.)

I didn't catch the segment, but hopefully someone brought up the fact that the only reason the teams appear socialist is to ensure the leagues can be as capitalist as possible. In fact, you could argue all 4 leagues in the U.S. have reached the peak of capitalism: a monopoly (barring some unforeseen takeover by the XFL, of course ).

MLB didn't institute a luxury tax because the owners suddenly grew fond of socialism; they instituted a luxury tax because the Yankees were outspending everyone else and buying a lot more of the good free agents every year. Fans in other markets were losing interest in baseball because the Yankees had economic advantages (namely the YES network) that other teams couldn't compete with, so the league intervened out of its own self-interest.

What do you think would happen to the NFL if they woke up one day and decided to be more "capitalist" by eliminating the salary cap? The Cowboys' payroll would probably jump to $500 million a year and they'd win the next 5 Super Bowls. Awesome news for those of us in Dallas, but the league as a whole would suffer as fans in other markets abandoned hope and tuned out.
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Legal Custodian
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In reply to J.P. 03 • 8:32p, 5/4/23
AG
So you're saying socialist principles are implemented on its members (citizens) for the good of the league (country)?
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J.P. 03
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In reply to Legal Custodian • 9:00p, 5/4/23
AG
Legal Custodian said:
So you're saying socialist principles are implemented on its members (citizens) for the good of the league (country)?

Nope. Just like in real life, I'm saying socialist principles are implemented on the members (citizens) for the good of the group of selfish billionaires at the top to whom the rules don't apply.

…Alright, enough of this F16 nonsense. Does Corby suck or what?
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Legal Custodian
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In reply to J.P. 03 • 9:02p, 5/4/23
AG
J.P. 03 said:
Legal Custodian said:
So you're saying socialist principles are implemented on its members (citizens) for the good of the league (country)?

Nope. Just like in real life, I'm saying socialist principles are implemented on the members (citizens) for the good of the group of selfish billionaires at the top to whom the rules don't apply.

…Alright, enough of this F16 nonsense. Does Corby suck or what?
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tk for tu juan
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In reply to dave94 • 2:49a, 5/5/23
dave94 said:
MW03 said:
Skinlonins doing moron dog

*chef's kiss*
I missed it, was that Gordo's Corner or when?
Just after 5:30 in the clip
https://omny.fm/shows/the-ticket-top-10/the-musers-840-bit-royal-family-insiders-the-skinl
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Jack Ruby
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7:17a, 5/5/23
The leagues initiate things like salary caps to keep eyeballs glued to TV sets.

Without it, the Yankees, Cowboys, Leafs, Lakers would have billion dollar payrolls and no one would watch because it's no longer entertaining. This is something a 5 year old could understand.
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Macarthur
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In reply to Jack Ruby • 7:46a, 5/5/23
Jack Ruby said:
The leagues initiate things like salary caps to keep eyeballs glued to TV sets.

Without it, the Yankees, Cowboys, Leafs, Lakers would have billion dollar payrolls and no one would watch because it's no longer entertaining. This is something a 5 year old could understand.

I think everyone understands this, even Dan. Not sure what point you're trying to make.
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Jack Ruby
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In reply to Macarthur • 8:09a, 5/5/23
That it isn't "socialist", it's actually hyper-capatilist.

Buy anyway, let's bring it back to sports.
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Macarthur
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In reply to Jack Ruby • 8:12a, 5/5/23
Revenue sharing is "hyper-capitalistic" ?
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Moe Jzyslak
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8:16a, 5/5/23
AG
"I didn't ask you *****"
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Jack Ruby
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In reply to Macarthur • 8:18a, 5/5/23
Again, keeping things competitive and interesting keeps more people watching TV and in the stands, therefore more revenue overall. These leagues operate in a bubble anyway.

Imma head out.
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agchino
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In reply to Jack Ruby • 9:49a, 5/5/23
AG
Following this analogy, every business is socialist. Whataburger has underperforming stores and overperforming stores.

They all give all their profits back to HQ and get capital redistributed back to meet their operational needs, and the overall corporation makes a profit.

As a fan of a team, any given year they can go to the championship (parity) or any given year they can suck, so you get get swings and cycles of performance as a fan, but dynasties have become more rare. As a fan I want a dynasty, as a league dynasties are bad for total league revenue.

Where this all breaks down is there is no artificial limit on how many free market companies can win the corporate championship, in sports only one team can win the championship, and we keep an artificial cap on how many franchises are allowed.

If we want to make that translate to the economy, then fine the Fortune 500 becomes the Fortune 32 and the government gets to pick which city they HQ in and have strict rules on what and how they produce. You live in the wrong city? Sorry no job for you then.

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Mozart Paintings
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10:15a, 5/5/23
AG
When Mozart sat down to paint......
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dave94
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10:52a, 5/5/23
AG
And now you have the sixteenth chapel
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Jack Ruby
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In reply to agchino • 11:03a, 5/5/23
That's exactly the point I'm trying to make.
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agchino
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In reply to Jack Ruby • 11:12a, 5/5/23
AG
Yes, I am backing you up, high five.
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Moe Jzyslak
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11:16a, 5/5/23
AG
Fantasy call next:

HERE
COMES
ORB
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Bones08
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11:38a, 5/5/23
AG
I think what you guys are missing with the whole socialism free market debate is that they are two different systems…

Two TOTALLY different systems.
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Hincemm
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5:03p, 5/5/23
AG
these past 20 posts have been great.
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RabbleRouser07
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6:27p, 5/5/23
AG
With the success of Welcome to Wrexham and now JJ Watt getting in on a 5th tier soccer team, having a 2nd tier MLS team could have these celebrities and athletes wanting to invest.
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Robert C. Christian
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9:16a, 5/10/23
AG
Love that Jub gets a whole page and Finley/Pat Green get a paragraph.

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walton91
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In reply to Robert C. Christian • 11:23a, 5/10/23
"Superstar Radio Host, Musician, Mountain Lion Expert". That bio is pretty funny
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AgLaw
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In reply to Robert C. Christian • 11:35a, 5/10/23
AG
Robert C. Christian said:
Love that Jub gets a whole page and Finley/Pat Green get a paragraph.


That's awesome and has to be a Gordon Keith original.
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