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Prosper ISD Fall Bond Election

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FTAG 2000
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12:01p, 8/22/23
AG
2.87 billion dollar bond election for the fall. Would be the second largest bond package ever passed in the state of Texas.

For comparison, Austin ISD passed a 2.44 billion election last year. Dallas had a 3.5 billion package in 2020.

Prosper student count: 33K
Austin student count: 73K
Dallas student count: 145K

These people must think they are Congress or something.
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chick79
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12:58p, 8/22/23
AG
I guess it's called Prosper for a good reason then.
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Robert C. Christian
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1:13p, 8/22/23
AG
I don't have an opinion since I don't live in Prosper but the current number of students is not a good comparison. Prosper's growth rate is 10% annually (35% growth since 2020). IF the bond is passed its impacts will be spread over a much larger student population.

Obviously, 10% isn't into perpetuity but within the next 20-25 years the population of Prosper is expected to double.
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FightinTAC08
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1:28p, 8/22/23
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I live in Prosper and can deal with the growth and the need for new schools, but prosper needs to tone down the palaces. Also the state should require them to disclose the impact on future taxes and that the current rate will be extended in perpetuity rather than disclosing that harping on the no tax rate increase.

Walnut Grove High school (#3 in prosper) cost $242 million. the first two high schools were the most expensive schools built in the state at their time.

Now PISD wants a second football stadium (8,000 seats) at 175% higher cost that than the previous stadium (12,000 seats) but with only 67% of the capacity. approximately $94-95 million estimate.
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FTAG 2000
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In reply to Robert C. Christian • 2:24p, 8/22/23
AG
Robert C. Christian said:
I don't have an opinion since I don't live in Prosper but the current number of students is not a good comparison. Prosper's growth rate is 10% annually (35% growth since 2020). IF the bond is passed its impacts will be spread over a much larger student population.

Obviously, 10% isn't into perpetuity but within the next 20-25 years the population of Prosper is expected to double.

Their projection is to be at 45K students in 2033. Even that math doesn't check out.

Also FightinTAC08 hit on another item. Why do they need another smaller football field for almost twice the cost of the current (other than they saw Melissa's new football digs and feel the need to keep up with the joneses).
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FTAG 2000
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2:27p, 8/22/23
AG
By the way they are selling this as 'tax rates won't go up at all.'

Nope, Collin CAD will be pushing 10% assessed value increases every year to do it.
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Vince Blake
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2:34p, 8/22/23
Damn. Walnut Grove is nice…
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Matsui
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2:36p, 8/22/23
AG
Ridiculous.
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wangus12
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In reply to Vince Blake • 2:40p, 8/22/23
AG
Vince Blake said:
Damn. Walnut Grove is nice…
Spend money on everything except the actual education
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cadetjay02
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2:47p, 8/22/23
AG
I lived in Prosper from 2014-2020, back to Frisco since then. I despised the entitlement of the people I regularly encountered having two boys in youth sports up there. The people are their own worst enemy with the generic look at me suburban house with the dude having a jacked up truck or Jeep and the mom's overpriced suv. Then you have a bunch of the neighborhoods where you're guilted into financing $15k+ golf cart. The people demand these facilities and then will complain about the taxes because all the financing leaves them cash poor.

The taxes are ridiculous and they are just going to deal with undersized roads for another decade. Frisco ISD's tax rate $0.23 per $100 less than PISD and has been going down, not increasing. If any of you Prosper folks need a good realtor to escape the madness, Cody Robinson is your guy.

TLDR- Prosper is way overrated
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Fenrir
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In reply to FightinTAC08 • 2:54p, 8/22/23
FightinTAC08 said:
I live in Prosper and can deal with the growth and the need for new schools, but prosper needs to tone down the palaces. Also the state should require them to disclose the impact on future taxes and that the current rate will be extended in perpetuity rather than disclosing that harping on the no tax rate increase.

Walnut Grove High school (#3 in prosper) cost $242 million. the first two high schools were the most expensive schools built in the state at their time.

Now PISD wants a second football stadium (8,000 seats) at 175% higher cost that than the previous stadium (12,000 seats) but with only 67% of the capacity. approximately $94-95 million estimate.
Damn, if you start building Prosper schools with budgets in mind Ben Pogue may have to sell his private jet.
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FightinTAC08
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In reply to cadetjay02 • 2:59p, 8/22/23
AG
you definitely aren't wrong but plenty of good people without those problems as well. But I can't stand going in and around Frisco. just way too many people. I'm sure all these bonds pass with >80%.

If I leave prosper I'm going Colorado or Idaho (would have to get a remote gig as well) or as far up Preston road as I can afford with 10-15 acres.

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a.froman
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3:03p, 8/22/23
AG
Just looked at a comparison of junior highs built in Frisco and Prosper. Wilkinson in Frisco is plenty nice and was completed for 43 million. Daniel Jones junior high in Prosper will be opened next year and cost 104 million. I want to know exactly the difference in the two schools that justifies a difference in 60 million. Unbelievable what Prosper is spending on schools. Meanwhile their taxes are astronomical because all they have is residential no commercial.
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riverrataggie
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3:08p, 8/22/23
AG
BS on taxes not going up. That's what Dallas did and idiots fell for it.
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FightinTAC08
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In reply to riverrataggie • 3:28p, 8/22/23
AG
They never say taxes are going up because that would be a lie. They always say rates are not going up which is true.

unfortunately a majority of the population is too ignorant or just doesnt care.
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Ag CPA
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In reply to cadetjay02 • 3:31p, 8/22/23
AG
cadetjay02 said:
I lived in Prosper from 2014-2020, back to Frisco since then. I despised the entitlement of the people I regularly encountered having two boys in youth sports up there. The people are their own worst enemy with the generic look at me suburban house with the dude having a jacked up truck or Jeep and the mom's overpriced suv. Then you have a bunch of the neighborhoods where you're guilted into financing $15k+ golf cart. The people demand these facilities and then will complain about the taxes because all the financing leaves them cash poor.
Yah, Frisco has none of that, salt of the Earth down there...
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cadetjay02
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In reply to a.froman • 3:33p, 8/22/23
AG
a.froman said:
Just looked at a comparison of junior highs built in Frisco and Prosper. Wilkinson in Frisco is plenty nice and was completed for 43 million. Daniel Jones junior high in Prosper will be opened next year and cost 104 million. I want to know exactly the difference in the two schools that justifies a difference in 60 million. Unbelievable what Prosper is spending on schools. Meanwhile their taxes are astronomical because all they have is residential no commercial.
I don't know about the inside of a PISD Middle School, but Wilkinson is very nice and has everything the students and teachers would need to learn. The PISD school will have a turf football field with bleachers and concessions. FISD just has a grass practice field around a 4 lane track and plays at the high schools.

I feel like Prosper just goes out of their way and looks for reasons to spend money, not look for ways to save money. Don't get me wrong, there is plenty of money wasted in FISD, but it's more so on administrative staff, not on image driven fluff.
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cadetjay02
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In reply to Ag CPA • 3:34p, 8/22/23
AG
Ag CPA said:
cadetjay02 said:
I lived in Prosper from 2014-2020, back to Frisco since then. I despised the entitlement of the people I regularly encountered having two boys in youth sports up there. The people are their own worst enemy with the generic look at me suburban house with the dude having a jacked up truck or Jeep and the mom's overpriced suv. Then you have a bunch of the neighborhoods where you're guilted into financing $15k+ golf cart. The people demand these facilities and then will complain about the taxes because all the financing leaves them cash poor.
Yah, Frisco has none of that, salt of the Earth down there...
You're not wrong, but it's primarily in the Wakeland and Reedy zones, not the entire city. Everything east of Preston is predominantly Indians and Telsas.
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Sims
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In reply to Vince Blake • 3:41p, 8/22/23
AG
That's excessive and disheartening.
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FTAG 2000
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In reply to a.froman • 3:47p, 8/22/23
AG
a.froman said:
Just looked at a comparison of junior highs built in Frisco and Prosper. Wilkinson in Frisco is plenty nice and was completed for 43 million. Daniel Jones junior high in Prosper will be opened next year and cost 104 million. I want to know exactly the difference in the two schools that justifies a difference in 60 million. Unbelievable what Prosper is spending on schools. Meanwhile their taxes are astronomical because all they have is residential no commercial.
Yep.

Look at the football stadium proposal.

$95 million for an 8000 seat stadium

Melissa just built a gorgeous new stadium for $35 million that seats 10K.

Where's the other 60 million going?

I wonder how many Prosper ISD trustees are feeding from this trough.
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Fenrir
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In reply to FTAG 2000 • 4:07p, 8/22/23
FTAG 2000 said:
a.froman said:
Just looked at a comparison of junior highs built in Frisco and Prosper. Wilkinson in Frisco is plenty nice and was completed for 43 million. Daniel Jones junior high in Prosper will be opened next year and cost 104 million. I want to know exactly the difference in the two schools that justifies a difference in 60 million. Unbelievable what Prosper is spending on schools. Meanwhile their taxes are astronomical because all they have is residential no commercial.
Yep.

Look at the football stadium proposal.

$95 million for an 8000 seat stadium

Melissa just built a gorgeous new stadium for $35 million that seats 10K.

Where's the other 60 million going?

I wonder how many Prosper ISD trustees are feeding from this trough.
I can't find any info on the Melissa stadium on whether that $35 is just construction or all-in cost, the $95 is all-in for sure. Still it's absurd either way. There is no incentive for Huckabee and Pogue to design to a budget in Prosper. They get handed job after job out there.

It's unfortunate that the Texas legislature failed to pass the proposed law a few years ago that would require financial audits of all projects like this.
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HomeFinderCody
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In reply to cadetjay02 • 4:13p, 8/22/23
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AG
cadetjay02 said:
I lived in Prosper from 2014-2020, back to Frisco since then. I despised the entitlement of the people I regularly encountered having two boys in youth sports up there. The people are their own worst enemy with the generic look at me suburban house with the dude having a jacked up truck or Jeep and the mom's overpriced suv. Then you have a bunch of the neighborhoods where you're guilted into financing $15k+ golf cart. The people demand these facilities and then will complain about the taxes because all the financing leaves them cash poor.

The taxes are ridiculous and they are just going to deal with undersized roads for another decade. Frisco ISD's tax rate $0.23 per $100 less than PISD and has been going down, not increasing. If any of you Prosper folks need a good realtor to escape the madness, Cody Robinson is your guy.

TLDR- Prosper is way overrated
CLEARLY the best post on this thread.

This man is wise. You should listen to him.

He knows how to pick a great Realtor.

Seriously, though -- thanks, Jay...appreciate the shout out.
Sponsor Message: Need real estate help in North Texas? Click Here to Save $500
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Gigem_94
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5:03p, 8/22/23
AG
Why would prosper need 2 football stadiums? Not like you can't schedule more than 1 or even 2 football games per weekend in a single stadium.
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Demasiado
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5:10p, 8/22/23
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I do commercial flooring and bid on the new hs w/ Pogue. It was by far the biggest bid I've put together for any school. I do work in every district and local college. Their golf team had indoor golf simulators! I was shocked to say the least
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FightinTAC08
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6:08p, 8/22/23
AG
I inquired what's up with the stadium and actually got a response.


Thank you for your question.

The primary cause for the higher price is inflation which is currently tracking at 15% annually. This number includes all soft costs such as architects' fees, civil engineering, municipal fees, furniture, fixtures, and equipment. Stadium #2 will be able to host track and field events which Children's Health does not have.

I hope that helps, and we will add this to the website.
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Fenrir
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6:33p, 8/22/23
Track and field doesn't add $50 Million...

Again, I am unsure if the $35 is all-in where Prosper's is all-in but regardless $95 million is nuts imo.
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FightinTAC08
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6:46p, 8/22/23
AG
Oh it's completely insane.

I'll be voting no to all of these
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ChoppinDs40
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In reply to Gigem_94 • 7:23p, 8/22/23
AG
Gigem_94 said:
Why would prosper need 2 football stadiums? Not like you can't schedule more than 1 or even 2 football games per weekend in a single stadium.


4 high schools. And a 5th will be on the way. 4 schools using 1 stadium is tough.
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ChoppinDs40
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In reply to Fenrir • 7:24p, 8/22/23
AG
Fenrir said:
FTAG 2000 said:
a.froman said:
Just looked at a comparison of junior highs built in Frisco and Prosper. Wilkinson in Frisco is plenty nice and was completed for 43 million. Daniel Jones junior high in Prosper will be opened next year and cost 104 million. I want to know exactly the difference in the two schools that justifies a difference in 60 million. Unbelievable what Prosper is spending on schools. Meanwhile their taxes are astronomical because all they have is residential no commercial.
Yep.

Look at the football stadium proposal.

$95 million for an 8000 seat stadium

Melissa just built a gorgeous new stadium for $35 million that seats 10K.

Where's the other 60 million going?

I wonder how many Prosper ISD trustees are feeding from this trough.
I can't find any info on the Melissa stadium on whether that $35 is just construction or all-in cost, the $95 is all-in for sure. Still it's absurd either way. There is no incentive for Huckabee and Pogue to design to a budget in Prosper. They get handed job after job out there.

It's unfortunate that the Texas legislature failed to pass the proposed law a few years ago that would require financial audits of all projects like this.


Per law though, every bid is open. CORE submits bids too but Pogue and Huckabee are always the lowest and that's why they get chosen. CORE does most of Frisco schools.

The issue is design… the prosper schools are nicer than most colleges and are top of the line. It's why people move out here… for what it's worth.
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Fenrir
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In reply to ChoppinDs40 • 7:37p, 8/22/23
I don't want to derail this thread because highlighting excessive use of public funds is important but...Winning an RFQ doesn't mean they were lowest. Could well be the case but there are other factors at play. Also Pogue has some funny accounting tricks. It's why they are one of the most profitable GCs despite routinely turning in extremely low fee rates.

ETA, one example of the other factors at play...at one point in time a relative of a FISD facilities employee was employed by Core. No idea if that's still the case but id argue that's a fairly significant conflict of interest.
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ChoppinDs40
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In reply to Fenrir • 8:40p, 8/22/23
AG
Fenrir said:
I don't want to derail this thread because highlighting excessive use of public funds is important but...Winning an RFQ doesn't mean they were lowest. Could well be the case but there are other factors at play. Also Pogue has some funny accounting tricks. It's why they are one of the most profitable GCs despite routinely turning in extremely low fee rates.

ETA, one example of the other factors at play...at one point in time a relative of a FISD facilities employee was employed by Core. No idea if that's still the case but id argue that's a fairly significant conflict of interest.
let's just say I'm very close and have first hand knowledge of much of this process.

Yeah, CORE moved their entire HQ here when they started winning those contracts. Their exec team lives in my neighborhood and one of their proejct mgrs is my neighbor.

As far as the quotes/bids, yes - the lowest is chosen. The CORE guys have been trying to crack the PISD code for some time but they can't make the bidding work *shrug*


Also, to add.. none of the PISD Board members are in construction or have any ties, unlike the Frisco mayor conflict of interest. There was a time ago that a former member was a realtor and was getting the fees on the land purchases for schools. Needless to say, many weren't too happy when they found out about that.
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FightinTAC08
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8:54p, 8/22/23
AG
Jorden dial is on the pisd board and works in construction for joeris which does a ton of schools but none in pisd that I am aware of.

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Fenrir
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In reply to ChoppinDs40 • 9:36p, 8/22/23
You aren't the only one in the know. Construction is a pretty small world, especially in the education market.
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FTAG 2000
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In reply to Fenrir • 9:39p, 8/22/23
AG
Fenrir said:
Track and field doesn't add $50 Million...

Again, I am unsure if the $35 is all-in where Prosper's is all-in but regardless $95 million is nuts imo.
I've got a buddy over in Melissa ISD administration. He's working to get me the all-in number on the stadium, for comparison.
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PDEMDHC
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In reply to FTAG 2000 • 6:46a, 8/23/23
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FTAG 2000 said:
2.87 billion dollar bond election for

Prosper student count: 33k

These people must think they are Congress or something.


Considering the population of Prosper is around 42,000 as of this year… the overlap of ISDs in this area must be insane or the average couple has 5-8 kids.

Makes the idea of the bond package that much more insane.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/us-cities/prosper-tx-population
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