Tibbers said:

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Money could be much better spent on first attaining the amenities that would drive tourism to the area. Once those have been established then build the conference center to house more tourism. Building my the conference center is putting the cart before the horse.

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Could've put the social media sign at the conference center even…

doubledog said:

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And we keep voting the same (type) of people into office that want to spend the cities money on foolish or legacy building projects.

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I'm thinking we need a younger presence on the board. Someone who understands what will drive value to the city of College Station and that starts with lowering taxes, encouraging new businesses to join the community and putting the citizens before pet projects. We need someone who will open the dialogue between the citizens and the board and do the bidding of the citizens and not the other way around. It can't possibly be that tough of a job and heck, it might be fun in the process. What else would you care to see in an effective board member?

Tibbers said:

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doubledog said:

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And we keep voting the same (type) of people into office that want to spend the cities money on foolish or legacy building projects.

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I'm thinking we need a younger presence on the board. Someone who understands what will drive value to the city of College Station and that starts with lowering taxes, encouraging new businesses to join the community and putting the citizens before pet projects. We need someone who will open the dialogue between the citizens and the board and do the bidding of the citizens and not the other way around. It can't possibly be that tough of a job and heck, it might be fun in the process. What else would you care to see in an effective board member?

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Considering any expenditure as if it was their own money. Only spending money if it serves the needs of its citizens. I don't see a convention center doing that.

A great way to get involved is joining a committee. There are quite a few to choose from and and here's the link to apply. It's a minimal commitment but with a way to impact the operations of the city. It is a little more work than complaining on Texags, however.

https://www.cstx.gov/departments___city_hall/committees

woodiewood1 said:

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Tibbers said:

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doubledog said:

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And we keep voting the same (type) of people into office that want to spend the cities money on foolish or legacy building projects.

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I'm thinking we need a younger presence…

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Considering any expenditure as if it was their own money. Only spending money if it serves the needs of its citizens. I don't see a convention center doing that.

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That last bit is what I'm looking for. CoCS makes a pile of money on just utility connects they charge the folks moving in alone. Nothing says "welcome to College Station" like another fee…

Another one would be to actually deregulate our electricity, like "other similar sized cities" have done. Forcing us to stay in a monopoly, it's not American, and definitely not fiscally conservative.

Hornbeck said:

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woodiewood1 said:

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Tibbers said:

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doubledog said:

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And we keep voting the same (type) of people into office that want to spend the cities money on foolish or legacy building projects.

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I'm thinking we need a younger presence…

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Considering any expenditure as if it was their own money. Only spending money if it serves the needs of its citizens. I don't see a convention center doing that.

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That last bit is what I'm looking for. CoCS makes a pile of money on just utility connects they charge the folks moving in alone. Nothing says "welcome to College Station" like another fee…

Another one would be to actually deregulate our power, like "other similar sized cities" have done. Forcing us to stay in a monopoly, it's not American, and definitely not fiscally conservative.

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Those Instagram props have to be paid for somehow.

Captn_Ag05 said:

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A great way to get involved is joining a committee. There are quite a few to choose from and and here's the link to apply. It's a minimal commitment but with a way to impact the operations of the city. It is a little more work than complaining on Texags, however.

https://www.cstx.gov/departments___city_hall/committees

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I'm wondering if it's not just wiser to jump right in and forego the committees. Something has to be done to curtail these ridiculous expenditures and being a voice of reason on the council would certainly have that effect. I'm a Hayek and Friedman type of conservative so any way I can drive taxes down and put money back into the citizens pockets by reducing cost, I feel it's a moral imperative.

Bob,

Not sure you are asking the right questions to satisfy your voters/taxpayers.

You basically asked a bunch of what seemed like university related people if they would like a bigger event space. Or maybe you asked why they don't host an event in BCS and they gave you the primary answer. I know of a few charitable events that could also benefit from a bigger venue, but I'm guessing size isn't the only consideration.


But you also need to know:

How much would they be willing to pay for the larger space?

How often would they host in BCS?

What other considerations do they have?

If your studies can show the benefit to A&M departments, then sell it to A&M as a partnership. Maybe use it to revisit the Kyle Field agreement.

Yes on everything you wrote. I did speak to AMS Global and HVS and a few other event booking and CC consulting firms. The feedback they gave was Tamu alone might justify it, with civic and entertainment and business events likely putting it over the top. The show specific family entertainment people (Brickland, Legoland, and Jurassic Live) all basically said they didn't understand why there was nowhere to go between Houston/Austin/San Antone except those cities themselves. They ship by truck and in many markets they pack up and only drive an hour to the next venue.

Even thinking about something like this without Tamu participation is most likely a non-starter. But when you factor in business trades, associations and entertainment on top, it begins to look potentially silly we don't have a venue. The same people demanding we have attractions first might consider the venue itself hosts attractions. Markets are replete with examples of kickstarting entertainment attractions by simply giving them a place to entertain and attract. Of course, also plenty of examples where it failed to deliver. Objective analysis must reign.

And yes, the cities and county did their part for Kyle Field in a big big way with little reciprocal benefit despite a contract promising that very thing. Therefore it would only be fair to expect some serious participation from my beloved Alma mater- especially if they expected to use it. If analysis proves viable, perhaps a good place to start would be a combined Performing Arts and Convention Center. A possibility anyway.

Bob Yancy said:

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You don't have to have a casino or a beach or a ski resort to host group business trade shows. I know firsthand, because I owned a business here with clients across the country, and attended trade shows multiple times per year. We went where the trade show was because we wanted to sell, not because of the attractions.

Trade associations like to move around rather than go to the same city again and again. Many can't afford Vegas or Palm Springs. Those markets are very expensive. They might splurge one year, then go to a mid-market the next. I know this because I did it for a couple of decades.

And I reject out of hand that we have no attraction. We ARE the attraction. Texas A&M has more Fortune 500 CEO grads than any school. We crank out more graduates than the vast majority of universities. As they age and pursue their careers, they want a reason to come back and see their Alma mater.

Most importantly, we have trade shows that have to split between two venues right now. Several of them. We have entities located HERE, in town, that can't schedule their OWN show here. They have to leave town because we do not have the space. People keep weighing in on this platform and saying "we have the Tamu Conference center" and "we have the Hilton." Those are fantastic facilities for their purpose but they are not adequate for large trade show exhibitions or concerts or family entertainment shows. I know because I've talked to those who schedule these shows and I've called out of town organizers and crews that set them up. The ballroom at the Tamu conference center is 8400 square feet and the ballroom at the Hilton is 11,000. Not big enough. We either decide that our intent is to never host large trade shows in this town, or we study the possibility of asking the citizens if they are willing to build it. The private sector rarely builds a convention center. The instances I've found were usually connected to a professional sports team.

I suggest we wait and see what the study says.

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I think there are several problems. The proximity to Austin and Houston tends to dampen the potential of College Station. That is a fact. Bryan-College Station can't compete with Houston and Austin on the sheer amount of amenities.

The first idea is to accept that fact and compete solely on price. But TAMU is out as sort of venue because of parking and access issues alone. The parking garages at A&M rival most major cities in terms of costs, and the university is an island as far as good restaurants go. But creating it as a "budget" option is a hard sell if the city wants to attract large trade shows.

The second option is to invest in options that make Bryan-College Station a more attractive place to have trade shows. The out-of-town visitors to BearX suggest that there's a market for a "real" waterpark. It's quite telling that since 2001, College Station has cut Adamson Lagoon's amenities (no diving board, etc.) and destroyed Thomas Pool without making any other investments. Maybe the city SHOULD have a role in pushing that and working with companies to make it happen.

PS3D said:

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Bob Yancy said:

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You don't have to have a casino or a beach or a ski resort to host group business trade shows. I know firsthand, because I owned a business here with clients across the country, and attended trade shows multiple times per year. We went where the trade show was because we wanted to sell, not because of the attractions.

Trade associations like to move around rather than go to the same city again and again. Many can't afford Vegas or Palm Springs. Those markets are very expensive. They might splurge one year, then go to a mid-market the next. I know this because I did it for a couple of decades.

And I reject out of hand that we have no attraction. We ARE the attraction. Texas A&M has more Fortune 500 CEO grads than any school. We crank out more graduates than the vast majority of universities. As they age and pursue their careers, they want a reason to come back and see their Alma mater.

Most importantly, we have trade shows that have to split between two venues right now. Several of them. We have entities located HERE, in town, that can't schedule their OWN show here. They have to leave town because we do not have the space. People keep weighing in on this platform and saying "we have the Tamu Conference center" and "we have the Hilton." Those are fantastic facilities for their purpose but they are not adequate for large trade show exhibitions or concerts or family entertainment shows. I know because I've talked to those who schedule these shows and I've called out of town organizers and crews that set them up. The ballroom at the Tamu conference center is 8400 square feet and the ballroom at the Hilton is 11,000. Not big enough. We either decide that our intent is to never host large trade shows in this town, or we study the possibility of asking the citizens if they are willing to build it. The private sector rarely builds a convention center. The instances I've found were usually connected to a professional sports team.

I suggest we wait and see what the study says.

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I think there are several problems. The proximity to Austin and Houston tends to dampen the potential of College Station. That is a fact. Bryan-College Station can't compete with Houston and Austin on the sheer amount of amenities.

The first idea is to accept that fact and compete solely on price. But TAMU is out as sort of venue because of parking and access issues alone. The parking garages at A&M rival most major cities in terms of costs, and the university is an island as far as good restaurants go. But creating it as a "budget" option is a hard sell if the city wants to attract large trade shows.

The second option is to invest in options that make Bryan-College Station a more attractive place to have trade shows. The out-of-town visitors to BearX suggest that there's a market for a "real" waterpark. It's quite telling that since 2001, College Station has cut Adamson Lagoon's amenities (no diving board, etc.) and destroyed Thomas Pool without making any other investments. Maybe the city SHOULD have a role in pushing that and working with companies to make it happen.

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Precisely and entertainment venues are a great way to do that as well. Think something with a baked in national presence like House of Blues to further attract amenities that would be viable additions to the city. As for dual purpose venues, we have plenty of examples around the city that when you focus on two purposes for one city, you neuter the ability to do either. It's time we think outside the box and bring real value to the city.

Quote:

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And yes, the cities and county did their part for Kyle Field in a big big way with little reciprocal benefit despite a contract promising that very thing.

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Could you please elaborate on this part? And did we pursue any type of remedy?

https://12thman.com/news/2013/5/1/207507161

"The agreement will utilize hotel tax revenue for the next 30 years with payments of $1 million from years 1 through 3, $1.2 million in years 4 through 6, and $1.225 million in years 7 through 30."

"In return, the BCSCVB will be able to use certain Texas A&M facilities at preferred rates for promoting tourism in Brazos County."

So, "no" on the question as to whether a remedy was sought?

Was this more of a handshake / back of a bar napkin kind of deal, or an actual contract?

Contract. Some facilities access has been granted, but very little. Challenges are tactical and strategic. Tactically, Tamu only wants to give bookings around 6 months out, where virtually all significant trade shows or concerts want 1 to 3 years. In other words, most events already are booked and already know where they are going in 2025.

Strategically, Tamu has challenges within their own organization allowing other internal departments to use their own facilities. Their facilities are highly "purpose built." Reed Arena for basketball, volleyball, graduations, etc. Anything much beyond that and issues arise. So it begs the question, if they have those issues internally, how was it ever going to work outside the organization?

To be fair, reportedly they are working on it. But to answer your question, no it's not resolved and no, redress hasn't been aggressively pursued, arguably until now.

Probably should have specified that in the contract. Don't you think?

Agreed.

Bob Yancy said:

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Contract. Some facilities access has been granted, but very little. Challenges are tactical and strategic. Tactically, Tamu only wants to give bookings around 6 months out, where virtually all significant trade shows or concerts want 1 to 3 years. In other words, most events already are booked and already know where they are going in 2025.

Strategically, Tamu has challenges within their own organization allowing other internal departments to use their own facilities. Their facilities are highly "purpose built." Reed Arena for basketball, volleyball, graduations, etc. Anything much beyond that and issues arise. So it begs the question, if they have those issues internally, how was it ever going to work outside the organization?

To be fair, reportedly they are working on it. But to answer your question, no it's not resolved and no, redress hasn't been aggressively pursued, arguably until now.

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But, since we made a previous bad deal that is costing north of a million dollars a year, into TAMU's pockets, with little return, we need another multimillion dollar facility to try and recoup some of that money that we previously wasted? Am I following that?

I know, I know, "I wasn't on council then"…

Here's a crazy idea. Tell Mr. Sharp he's not getting his $1m+ a year until you *can* book things further out. Don't budge. I'm betting things magically get easier to book.

ETA; if they still wanna play hardball, at the very least, you'll have millions of dollars to spend on a new facility at that point. Without doing bonds and raising taxes.

Bob Yancy said:

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Agreed.

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Best way to combat that is to shed light to it. It's an indefensible position by TAMU. I guarantee you very few know that A&M is strong arming college station citizens. Most probably think it's an amiable partnership. From what I am hearing, it is decidedly not. Paint the target.

Bob Yancy said:

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Yes on everything you wrote. I did speak to AMS Global and HVS and a few other event booking and CC consulting firms. The feedback they gave was Tamu alone might justify it, with civic and entertainment and business events likely putting it over the top. The show specific family entertainment people (Brickland, Legoland, and Jurassic Live) all basically said they didn't understand why there was nowhere to go between Houston/Austin/San Antone except those cities themselves. They ship by truck and in many markets they pack up and only drive an hour to the next venue.

Even thinking about something like this without Tamu participation is most likely a non-starter. But when you factor in business trades, associations and entertainment on top, it begins to look potentially silly we don't have a venue. The same people demanding we have attractions first might consider the venue itself hosts attractions. Markets are replete with examples of kickstarting entertainment attractions by simply giving them a place to entertain and attract. Of course, also plenty of examples where it failed to deliver. Objective analysis must reign.

And yes, the cities and county did their part for Kyle Field in a big big way with little reciprocal benefit despite a contract promising that very thing. Therefore it would only be fair to expect some serious participation from my beloved Alma mater- especially if they expected to use it. If analysis proves viable, perhaps a good place to start would be a combined Performing Arts and Convention Center. A possibility anyway.

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I noticed that with the Bluey's Big Adventure that is on the OPAS schedule. It is sandwiched in the middle of a Texas tour that hits Dallas, Austin, Houston San Antonio, Fort Worth, and College Station. I also notice that the Dallas show is the beginning and Fort Worth is the end.

I would think the planning on the tamu performing arts center is too far along to try to merge that in with your convention center. But the university plans need to be incorporated into you decision making. Is the performing arts center going to include another large venue for those type of shows? If so, is Rudder Auditorium maintained as a large venue. You could potentially be in a position where your performing arts portion is competing with two university owned/run venues.

I would also be concerned that if you rely too heavily on university related business, the university might come in an build something that pulls all that business out of the convention center. Basketball/volleyball will eventually need upgraded facilities. If there are purpose built venues for that freeing up Reed to be used for more events, that could add competition with your trade shows and performances too.


I think partnering with the university in some way might alleviate some risk there. TAMU is not going to build an indoor tennis facility while they are involved with the one in Bryan, as an example. If they are paying into a convention center, they probably aren't going to be looking to build something to host conventions for various programs.

I do think some of the stuff being built at RELLIS could result in the need for larger convention space. Not a typically trade show, but more like a science/engineering conference related to hypersonic flight or autonomous vehicles. But where you put the thing might matter a lot for those kinds of events.

He's a visionary leader with the rare ability to deliver on the vision, and we ALL benefit immensely from it. Can't ever lose sight of that.

I would be ignoring facts though if I, as one member of council, didn't admit our beloved Alma mater's home HQ definitely could benefit from some attention on multiple fronts.

Respectfully

Captn_Ag05 said:

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A great way to get involved is joining a committee. There are quite a few to choose from and and here's the link to apply. It's a minimal commitment but with a way to impact the operations of the city. It is a little more work than complaining on Texags, however.

https://www.cstx.gov/departments___city_hall/committees

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This a great way to get involved, but those committees also tend to train you to see things the city staff's way. You need to be vigilant.

taxpreparer said:

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Captn_Ag05 said:

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A great way to get involved is joining a committee. There are quite a few to choose from and and here's the link to apply. It's a minimal commitment but with a way to impact the operations of the city. It is a little more work than complaining on Texags, however.

https://www.cstx.gov/departments___city_hall/committees

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This a great way to get involved, but those committees also tend to train you to see things the city staff's way. You need to be vigilant.

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And you need to be a developer or real estate person to get on most of,them. You can get on library committee but my guess is,there isn't any major input on that committee. The major ones are appointed or they have very narrow scope,that the avg citizen can't get on

Bob Yancy said:

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He's a visionary leader with the rare ability to deliver on the vision, and we ALL benefit immensely from it. Can't ever lose sight of that.

I would be ignoring facts though if I, as one member of council, didn't admit our beloved Alma mater's home HQ definitely could benefit from some attention on multiple fronts.

Respectfully

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Did you just say John Sharp is a visionary leader? That dude is single handedly ruining A&M by turning it into a diploma mill. Goodness

The city council approves the committee memberships. I'm sure Bob will give you a vote .
If you are a CSAN person the rest of the council will vote you on.

CSAN?

Bob Yancy said:

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He's a visionary leader with the rare ability to deliver on the vision, and we ALL benefit immensely from it. Can't ever lose sight of that.

I would be ignoring facts though if I, as one member of council, didn't admit our beloved Alma mater's home HQ definitely could benefit from some attention on multiple fronts.

Respectfully

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And that right there is why we need newer and younger eyes at the council. You wonder why the council has signed deals that hurt college station citizens? It's because of viewpoints like this. Talk about being out of touch.

AggiePhil said:

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CSAN?

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This???

College Station Association of Neighborhoods.
They hate progress.

Jbob04 said:

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Bob Yancy said:

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He's a visionary leader with the rare ability to deliver on the vision, and we ALL benefit immensely from it. Can't ever lose sight of that.

I would be ignoring facts though if I, as one member of council, didn't admit our beloved Alma mater's home HQ definitely could benefit from some attention on multiple fronts.

Respectfully

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Did you just say John Sharp is a visionary leader? That dude is single handedly ruining A&M by turning it into a diploma mill. Goodness

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Diploma mill?? How so?? This is clearly a popular and cute new term thrown around these days. Please elaborate and enlighten us on this. The fact is that scores of very bright young people that want to be Aggies are turned away every year here, in what is to this day a very difficult school to get in to. The mission of Texas A&M University is to educate the young men and women of The State of Texas. If the room is there for them, I'm all for it. The Texas A&M diploma carries as much weight today as it did during my time in the late 90's. I'm sorry, but this whole diploma mill narrative is a tired one. Go tell that to the many young men and women with great grades and good testing metrics at a competitive high schools across this state that get denied or PSA'd every year.

HWY6_RunsBothWays said:

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College Station Association of Neighborhoods.
They hate progress.

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Lived here 25 years, never heard of it.

AggiePhil said:

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HWY6_RunsBothWays said:

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College Station Association of Neighborhoods.
They hate progress.

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Lived here 25 years, never heard of it.

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Look for the political yard signs every election cycle with the yellow riders on them that say "endorsed by CSAN"
I've lived here for 28 years and have been keenly aware of this group for quite a while now. College Station Progressives would be a much more appropriate moniker.

Just for frame of reference, how old do you think Bob is?

HWY6_RunsBothWays said:

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The fact that Maloney is on council again after his contribution to the Weingarten and Chimney Hill disasters is really a travesty.