She's in a district that allows it. Of course she's free to move anywhere she wants. Doesn't eliminate her conflict: active shooter, room full of students, little training in active shooter situation. Cops and military train daily for these situations. Teachers cannot.viejo said:If she's not in a school district that allows it, there's no need to be conflicted. If she is, she's free to chose to carry or not. And, if she's uncomfortable being in a district that allows it, she's free to seek employment elsewhere. What we're talking about here is choices. Everyone has them, except teachers in most school districts (about 20% of school districts DO allow teachers to be armed if they so choose).75AG said:I find your post condescending. I don't know of a teacher who would not protect their studentsBrazosDog02 said:
Send prayers. The count is up to 10 now.
I couldn't get MORE behind arming teachers and actively training them. I also would encourage ANY teacher with the mindset that "it's not their job to protect kids" to quit their job.
My wife is a teacher. Proficient in firearms. And she's conflicted about guns in the classroom.
Armed teachers in the Brazos Valley
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Last: 5 yr ago by LOYAL AG
More hypotheticals:
In the event of an active shooter, should the teacher protect his/her classroom and the 30 students residing in the room, or abandon the students and maneuver through the halls (many schools are huge, possibly multi-building campuses) searching for the assailant?
If your child's teacher was a school marshal, how would you want them to respond?
As one of only a few, or maybe the only armed protector currently on campus, what should the teacher do?
In the event of an active shooter, should the teacher protect his/her classroom and the 30 students residing in the room, or abandon the students and maneuver through the halls (many schools are huge, possibly multi-building campuses) searching for the assailant?
If your child's teacher was a school marshal, how would you want them to respond?
As one of only a few, or maybe the only armed protector currently on campus, what should the teacher do?
Answer: protect as many children as possible, every situation is different there is no clear answer. What's not the answer? Not allowing teachers or admin to carry legally with proper training. If a perp thinks a school is not a soft target they will not try it.
And, I doubt a school would have only one teacher carrying if the school allows it.
And, I doubt a school would have only one teacher carrying if the school allows it.
FJB
I don't disagree with you. However many of these killers have some level of understanding they will not come out alive. They want want to inflict as much damage and carnage as possible. They're insane, so whether it's a soft target, or not, likely makes little difference.
An armed teacher, administrator, or custodian will not prevent that. A better solution is to make schools much more difficult to enter.
An armed teacher, administrator, or custodian will not prevent that. A better solution is to make schools much more difficult to enter.
hopefully, there's more than 1 armed teacher/admin.JCRiley09 said:
More hypotheticals:
In the event of an active shooter, should the teacher protect his/her classroom and the 30 students residing in the room, or abandon the students and maneuver through the halls (many schools are huge, possibly multi-building campuses) searching for the assailant?
If your child's teacher was a school marshal, how would you want them to respond?
As one of only a few, or maybe the only armed protector currently on campus, what should the teacher do?
if you are in your classroom with students, secure the door and take up a defensive position
if you are in the hall/at the other end of the building and hear shooting, evacuate as many students as possible
if you are near the action, engage.
If you are on your conference period, help evacuate or engage
there are numerous examples of shooters surrendering or committing suicide the moment they take return fire. once they feel that they've lost control of the situation, a lot of them fold.Quote:
I don't disagree with you. However many of these killers have some level of understanding they will not come out alive. They want want to inflict as much damage and carnage as possible. They're insane, so whether it's a soft target, or not, likely makes little difference.
I want them to respond the same exact way that I would respond. My weapon is used defensively. It is not used offensively. In this situation, if there is gunfire, I am staying put unless I am CERTAIN I can get into a safer location. If not, I camp out right there and keep the doors locked. If or when that door is breached....thats the last resort and this is where my weapon levels the field.JCRiley09 said:
More hypotheticals:
In the event of an active shooter, should the teacher protect his/her classroom and the 30 students residing in the room, or abandon the students and maneuver through the halls (many schools are huge, possibly multi-building campuses) searching for the assailant?
If your child's teacher was a school marshal, how would you want them to respond?
As one of only a few, or maybe the only armed protector currently on campus, what should the teacher do?
In public, my CHL is for defense of myself and any anyone immediately with me. It is not for you, or the guy next to me. If I must use my weapon and others benefit from it, then that's great, but my weapon is mine and I believe it to be used as a last resort.
Likewise, if I'm sitting near the exit of a restaurant, strapped head to toe with weapons and firearms, and a dude busts in the front with an AR15...Me and mine are slipping out the door, not going Tombstone on him. My goal in a situation is to live, not create extra risk to improve the odds of dying.
75AG said:
I don't disagree with you. However many of these killers have some level of understanding they will not come out alive. They want want to inflict as much damage and carnage as possible. They're insane, so whether it's a soft target, or not, likely makes little difference.
An armed teacher, administrator, or custodian will not prevent that. A better solution is to make schools much more difficult to enter.
Buy a man eat fish, he day, teach fish man, to a lifetime.
- Joe Biden
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- Kamala Harris
- Joe Biden
I think that, to be very honest with you, I do believe that we should have rightly believed, but we certainly believe that certain issues are just settled.
- Kamala Harris
soso33 said:
Sorry, but I'm a little uneasy with the type of person that is going to be attracted by this program and ultimately, I don't think enough educators will opt in to make a difference, campus-wide.
Let's step through it.Quote:
All teachers who want to participate in the Guardian Plan must already have their concealed handgun license
ok, so far so good. And this might encourage teachers who don't already have their concealed carry licence to get one...Quote:
and will go through extensive training, including crisis intervention and management of hostage situations.
Now, wait a minute. Teachers are already resource-strapped as it is. And they don't have a lot of extra time to spare. When is this training proposed to happen?So teachers are supposed to give up more of their summer? I don't think this will be very popular.Quote:
Training will take place over the summer, and the Guardian Plan requirements and training will be included in the district's emergency operation procedures to note what must be done every nine weeks, every semester or every year.
No mention of how many hours are included in the extensive training. I looked up similar programs and this is what I found:Quote:
Sentinels receive 4 hours of defensive tactics. However, their firearms training includes the same 80 hours as a basic recruit plus:
-16 hours of precision pistol training
-4 hours of discretionary (shoot-or-don't-shoot) training
-An extra 8 hours of active shooter training
-20 hours of deadly force legal education (learning when to legally step into a situation and shoot)
It's a total of 132 hours of training.
http://www.fox13news.com/news/local-news/inside-the-sentinel-training-program-arming-teachers-in-polk-county
There's no mention of extra pay for this service the teachers are providing.
In short, the hours of training over the summer will be a deterrent to participation in the program. But furthermore, I'd have to question the true intentions of a teacher who was willing to go through all of the training and red tape just to carry a weapon in the classroom. I'm sorry, but I'd say that person is a little too enthusiastic about the opportunity and would be anxiously awaiting a situation where they could use their training.
LOL.
I hope I never have to use any training that I've ever received, or my handgun that is strapped to my belt every day.
Bumping this thread in the wake the publication of a minute by minute breakdown of the Parkland massacre. Two teachers rushed to stop the shooter but without any sort of firearm they had no real hope of succeeding. Meanwhile the on campus deputy froze and decided to wait it out across campus. Lots and lots of incompetence here but the bottom line is that the only armed person failed to act and the only people that acted weren't armed. Anti-gun policies cost lives that day.
Parkland Details
Parkland Details
The article is a scathing indictment of Broward County S.O. and the school district. It's an excellent read.LOYAL AG said:
Bumping this thread in the wake the publication of a minute by minute breakdown of the Parkland massacre. Two teachers rushed to stop the shooter but without any sort of firearm they had no real hope of succeeding. Meanwhile the on campus deputy froze and decided to wait it out across campus. Lots and lots of incompetence here but the bottom line is that the only armed person failed to act and the only people that acted weren't armed. Anti-gun policies cost lives that day.
Parkland Details
MB19 said:The article is a scathing indictment of Broward County S.O. and the school district. It's an excellent read.LOYAL AG said:
Bumping this thread in the wake the publication of a minute by minute breakdown of the Parkland massacre. Two teachers rushed to stop the shooter but without any sort of firearm they had no real hope of succeeding. Meanwhile the on campus deputy froze and decided to wait it out across campus. Lots and lots of incompetence here but the bottom line is that the only armed person failed to act and the only people that acted weren't armed. Anti-gun policies cost lives that day.
Parkland Details
You're not kidding. Wow.
That article is both heartbreaking and infuriating.
Why do people have car insurance?
Why is there home insurance?
Why do large businesses have overhead sprinklers?
Why are the guardrails on the highway when you cross a bridge?
Why is there home insurance?
Why do large businesses have overhead sprinklers?
Why are the guardrails on the highway when you cross a bridge?
....when we allow concealed handguns, we will have blood running out of the front doors of our restaurants!
.....when we allow open carry of firearms, we will have a lot of cowboys accidentally shooting themselves or other persons in restaurants.
.....when we allow open carry of firearms, we will have a lot of cowboys accidentally shooting themselves or other persons in restaurants.
I really hope that is sarcasm.
Without question and that was the intent or the article. But the fact they can't/won't address is that there were NINE kids dead within 2:19 of the shooters arrival which is when 911 was called. It's simply impossible for anyone not already on the scene to have prevented this massacre. The only way this could have been avoided would have been for the security monitor that saw him outside to have called a Code Red or for the teacher that encountered him in the hall before he unpacked his rifle to have been armed and capable of dealing with the problem before it got crazy. Once it got crazy the coach and AD that ran in could have had a chance HAD THEY BEEN ARMED! God bless them for running to help but without a weapon they just added to the body count.MB19 said:The article is a scathing indictment of Broward County S.O. and the school district. It's an excellent read.LOYAL AG said:
Bumping this thread in the wake the publication of a minute by minute breakdown of the Parkland massacre. Two teachers rushed to stop the shooter but without any sort of firearm they had no real hope of succeeding. Meanwhile the on campus deputy froze and decided to wait it out across campus. Lots and lots of incompetence here but the bottom line is that the only armed person failed to act and the only people that acted weren't armed. Anti-gun policies cost lives that day.
Parkland Details
The only real opportunity to stop this would have been an armed teacher in the right place at the right time and that's the uncomfortable truth we are going to have to address. Shooters pick schools, malls and movie theaters because they are easy targets with signs telling lawful gun owners that their guns are not welcome. Most gun owners will obey because we are law abiding citizens. That makes these locations shooting galleries with all bullets flying one direction and little opportunity for any serious resistance.
What we have to realize with this article is that all of the screw ups by the Sheriff's Department occurred well after all of the killing was done. Other than an officer in every building which seems completely impractical literally nothing that is in their control would have prevented this. The district admin has a better chance of reducing the number of deaths with better training of teachers on lock down procedures but that's still no guarantee. The ability to shoot back is the only way to increase your odds of surviving this type of situation and it baffles me that so many Americans can role play this type of event in their minds and not draw the same conclusion. If you can't/won't defend yourself you are increasing the odds you will not survive. That's as obvious as it can possibly be. This article seems to support that conclusion.
I don't think the blame for the massacre should lie with anyone but the assailant, but what gets me angry is that it's apparent the only reason the body count wasn't higher was because Cruz is an idiot and simply gave up. Thank god he did, because had he been more determined it would have been much worse because the sheriff's office wasn't going to stop him.Quote:
Without question and that was the intent or the article. But the fact they can't/won't address is that there were NINE kids dead within 2:19 of the shooters arrival which is when 911 was called. It's simply impossible for anyone not already on the scene to have prevented this massacre. The only way this could have been avoided would have been for the security monitor that saw him outside to have called a Code Red or for the teacher that encountered him in the hall before he unpacked his rifle to have been armed and capable of dealing with the problem before it got crazy.
I'm not sure what I said that suggested anyone but the shooter is to blame. I sure didn't intend to imply anything else. All I'm arguing is that this article clearly proves that nothing short of an armed teacher had any hope of stopping this before those first nine kids were dead.Belton Ag said:I don't think the blame for the massacre should lie with anyone but the assailant, but what gets me angry is that it's apparent the only reason the body count wasn't higher was because Cruz is an idiot and simply gave up. Thank god he did, because had he been more determined it would have been much worse because the sheriff's office wasn't going to stop him.Quote:
Without question and that was the intent or the article. But the fact they can't/won't address is that there were NINE kids dead within 2:19 of the shooters arrival which is when 911 was called. It's simply impossible for anyone not already on the scene to have prevented this massacre. The only way this could have been avoided would have been for the security monitor that saw him outside to have called a Code Red or for the teacher that encountered him in the hall before he unpacked his rifle to have been armed and capable of dealing with the problem before it got crazy.
This thread spent a lot of time this summer discussing whether or not teachers should be armed. IMO the timeline presented here proves that there's not other way to stop this kind of thing. Crazy people are going to do crazy things and if, God forbid, you're in their line of fire when they do, the only person you can rely upon to save you life is you so when we refuse to give our teachers the opportunity to arm themselves if they choose to do so we're tacitly admitting that we're OK with this kind of things continuing. That's really my only point.
I don't think you blame anyone. Never said you did and that wasn't my point. I was just addressing the issue that the sherriff's office deserves all of the grief and dirision that they're getting over this.Quote:
I'm not sure what I said that suggested anyone but the shooter is to blame. I sure didn't intend to imply anything else. All I'm arguing is that this article clearly proves that nothing short of an armed teacher had any hope of stopping this before those first nine kids were dead.
This thread spent a lot of time this summer discussing whether or not teachers should be armed. IMO the timeline presented here proves that there's not other way to stop this kind of thing. Crazy people are going to do crazy things and if, God forbid, you're in their line of fire when they do, the only person you can rely upon to save you life is you so when we refuse to give our teachers the opportunity to arm themselves if they choose to do so we're tacitly admitting that we're OK with this kind of things continuing. That's really my only point.
I agree with everything you wrote in your post above. Sorry if I wasn't more clear in my post.
Got it. Yeah agree completely. The Sheriff Department is clearly a mess.
They should be armed and it should be posted that they are armed.
Some schools across the country have had armed teachers and/or administration persons for a number of years. How many accidental shootings have there been by armed teachers and administrators?
Well since every school shooting gets sensationalized by a biased media hell bent on taking away gun rights I'm going to go with none. Pretty certain they would have told us if it had happened.woodiewood1 said:
Some schools across the country have had armed teachers and/or administration persons for a number of years. How many accidental shootings have there been by armed teachers and administrators?
if that's incorrect so be it but please fill in the blank for us.
Agreesnaglepuss said:It needs to....techno-ag said:
Well, looks like Navasota is allowing concealed carry on campus. Can't see it happening in BCS though.
http://www.theeagle.com/news/local/navasota-district-to-allow-trained-teachers-to-carry-firearms/article_8305426f-6b55-576c-b0a6-f131965bb69b.html
I suspect none. Also, most every church of any size has a number of members by design that have concealed firearms and I bet that there are many others with concealed guns. I have heard of no accidential shootings of persons in churches by church members.LOYAL AG said:Well since every school shooting gets sensationalized by a biased media hell bent on taking away gun rights I'm going to go with none. Pretty certain they would have told us if it had happened.woodiewood1 said:
Some schools across the country have had armed teachers and/or administration persons for a number of years. How many accidental shootings have there been by armed teachers and administrators?
if that's incorrect so be it but please fill in the blank for us.
Also, people don't realize it, but now many restaurants also have persons with concealed weapons.
Ah, so you were asking from the same perspective I had, got it.woodiewood1 said:I suspect none. Also, most every church of any size has a number of members by design that have concealed firearms and I bet that there are many others with concealed guns. I have heard of no accidential shootings of persons in churches by church members.LOYAL AG said:Well since every school shooting gets sensationalized by a biased media hell bent on taking away gun rights I'm going to go with none. Pretty certain they would have told us if it had happened.woodiewood1 said:
Some schools across the country have had armed teachers and/or administration persons for a number of years. How many accidental shootings have there been by armed teachers and administrators?
if that's incorrect so be it but please fill in the blank for us.
Also, people don't realize it, but now many restaurants also have persons with concealed weapons.