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Armed teachers in the Brazos Valley

techno-ag
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Well, looks like Navasota is allowing concealed carry on campus. Can't see it happening in BCS though.

http://www.theeagle.com/news/local/navasota-district-to-allow-trained-teachers-to-carry-firearms/article_8305426f-6b55-576c-b0a6-f131965bb69b.html
snaglepuss
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techno-ag said:

Well, looks like Navasota is allowing concealed carry on campus. Can't see it happening in BCS though.

http://www.theeagle.com/news/local/navasota-district-to-allow-trained-teachers-to-carry-firearms/article_8305426f-6b55-576c-b0a6-f131965bb69b.html
It needs to....
Scruffy
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Grabbing my popcorn for the inevitable Bryan vs CS comments.

[The inevitable bans will accompany them. -Staff]
LSCSN
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if the eagle is correct, the navasota plan should be implemented at every district in the state.
soso33
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Sorry, but I'm a little uneasy with the type of person that is going to be attracted by this program and ultimately, I don't think enough educators will opt in to make a difference, campus-wide.

Let's step through it.
Quote:

All teachers who want to participate in the Guardian Plan must already have their concealed handgun license

ok, so far so good. And this might encourage teachers who don't already have their concealed carry licence to get one...



Quote:

and will go through extensive training, including crisis intervention and management of hostage situations.

Now, wait a minute. Teachers are already resource-strapped as it is. And they don't have a lot of extra time to spare. When is this training proposed to happen?


Quote:

Training will take place over the summer, and the Guardian Plan requirements and training will be included in the district's emergency operation procedures to note what must be done every nine weeks, every semester or every year.
So teachers are supposed to give up more of their summer? I don't think this will be very popular.

No mention of how many hours are included in the extensive training. I looked up similar programs and this is what I found:
Quote:


Sentinels receive 4 hours of defensive tactics. However, their firearms training includes the same 80 hours as a basic recruit plus:
-16 hours of precision pistol training
-4 hours of discretionary (shoot-or-don't-shoot) training
-An extra 8 hours of active shooter training
-20 hours of deadly force legal education (learning when to legally step into a situation and shoot)

It's a total of 132 hours of training.

http://www.fox13news.com/news/local-news/inside-the-sentinel-training-program-arming-teachers-in-polk-county


There's no mention of extra pay for this service the teachers are providing.

In short, the hours of training over the summer will be a deterrent to participation in the program. But furthermore, I'd have to question the true intentions of a teacher who was willing to go through all of the training and red tape just to carry a weapon in the classroom. I'm sorry, but I'd say that person is a little too enthusiastic about the opportunity and would be anxiously awaiting a situation where they could use their training.


rhoswen
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You would be wrong.
Scruffy
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With school out, rhos the teacher has ample time to stop by.
Eliminatus
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Damn, I know there can never be enough training.

That being said, this does seem like overkill. I imagine you could easily chop those hours considerably and still have a very effective course. I don't see too many extra demands over basic CCL training.

Liability worries? Mixed with "Tier 1" level of training? Every semester? Gonna cost.

This will be prohibitive if this model is followed. I don't see how it can't be.
Turf96
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I agree we have more dangerous weapons over there called egos. They get used a lot more often and with less control.

By the way tanks for your explaination over there. I see your point. Dont see the grandfather issue but see the draw the line thiught.
soso33
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Eliminatus said:

Damn, I know there can never be enough training.

That being said, this does seem like overkill. I imagine you could easily chop those hours considerably and still have a very effective course. I don't see too many extra demands over basic CCL training.

Liability worries? Mixed with "Tier 1" level of training? Every semester? Gonna cost.

This will be prohibitive if this model is followed. I don't see how it can't be.

Thanks for a thoughtful reply. And your mention of liabilities is a whole different concern. A program like this has to cost a whole lot to a district to be done the right way and for the district to protect itself.
techno-ag
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If it saves lives, all those hours are worth it.
gibby03
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Turf96 said:

I agree we have more dangerous weapons over there called egos. They get used a lot more often and with less control.

By the way tanks for your explaination over there. I see your point. Dont see the grandfather issue but see the draw the line thiught.
Turf, thank you for being logical and explaining instead of letting emotion run your thoughts. I hope ultimately everything works out for you and your family, one way or another.
soso33
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I think that's a nice feel good statement, but my point is in the reality of implementation. I don't think the program will be successful. Of course, who knows, the true intent of such a program might be the general deterrent to students with bad intentions. I can see how if a student in the Navasota school district *thought* his teachers could have a gun, it would deter him/her from acting. But in a true numbers sense, dealing with an active shooter, I don't think you will have enough buy in from the teachers to make a difference in protecting a whole campus.
LSCSN
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so just dont allow it all? even if the teachers have to take the brunt of the costs and training time? well, ok.
soso33
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No one said that. IF a teacher goes through all of that trouble to carry a gun, I think you need to take an extensive look at that person and his/her motivations. Of course it's a catch 22 because I think every one of those 132 training hours are worth it. BUT, until there is some actual incentive (monetary, extra time off, etc.) that would make sense, I think teachers who would go through with a program like this could be too eager. My father, bless his heart, would have wanted to participate in such a program when he taught school. Unfortunately, he would not have been the right fit for this kind of thing. There needs to be some way to weed out any teachers who are doing it for the wrong reasons. How you do that, I'm not sure.
Dennis Reynolds
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Quote:

In short, the hours of training over the summer will be a deterrent to participation in the program. But furthermore, I'd have to question the true intentions of a teacher who was willing to go through all of the training and red tape just to carry a weapon in the classroom. I'm sorry, but I'd say that person is a little too enthusiastic about the opportunity and would be anxiously awaiting a situation where they could use their training.
Roughly 1 week of training over summer vacation? Can be easily done. And then questioning the intentions of a teacher who wants to be able to protect kids/himself if needed?
LSCSN
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lol, what?
FlyRod
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8/10 for the OP.
75AG
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Anyone responding on this thread a teacher? I would really like their opinions.
Scruffy
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75AG said:

Anyone responding on this thread a teacher? I would really like their opinions.

Rhoswen is.
rhoswen
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Yes I teach high school. My husband and I go to the range fairly often, but I don't have a CL (yet).

I think 132 hours is a little excessive, and it's insulting to hear that only the teachers that would put forth that sort of effort are only itching for a fight.

I've asked my students how they'd feel about teachers carrying and they're okay with it (in Houston).
75AG
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My wife is a teacher in Navasota. And I agree it's incredibly insulting to assume a teacher would be looking forward to using his/her training. That's absurd. That said, while my wife is comfortable with firearms, she is currently not comfortable with the thought of having a weapon in her classroom.
doubledog
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I am not a teacher at the K-12 level, however the teachers I discussed this with tell me they are worried that a student will take a handgun off of a teacher and use it. A teacher losing a handgun to a student is much more likely (given the number of students) than active shooter. If they could guarantee that a student could not take a gun from a teacher, than I would be all for qualified teacher with guns.
soso33
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I'm sorry if I offended anyone. And to all of the teachers out there, thank you for for your service. I don't expect you to do even more than you are currently doing without getting paid to do it.
Stupe
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S
Give teachers the option of getting trained and arm them.

I would pay for a firearm and donate it if that happened in CSISD.
Oogway
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Like Eliminatus, I would want to know a lot more about the liability aspect when implementing that plan. What is Navasota doing in that regard? Apples to oranges, but some cities don't even have diving boards in their pools because of the insurance so who would pay for the insurance?
LOYAL AG
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The very fact that you MIGHT encounter someone who is capable of shooting back will be a huge deterrent to someone doing something. Mass shooters prefer their victims unarmed. Their a lot like politicians in that way.
ukbb2003
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It's better than a 5 gallon bucket of rocks or mini baseball bats.
gettingitdone
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I would not at all be worried about a student taking the gun as the students would not know which teachers have them.
GiveEmHellBill
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gettingitdone said:

I would not at all be worried about a student taking the gun as the students would not know which teachers have them.
And I would also think that many teachers would have the guns locked away in their desk where only they can get to them.
LSCSN
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no teacher in their right mind would lock a gun in their desk. for it to work, would have to be on their person at all times.
rhoswen
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Trust me, it'd be more likely to be found by a student in my desk than on my person. Besides, having to purchase desks that lock would be an added expense for the district.

Besides, in a seconds-only emergency, a gun locked in my desk might as well be in my car. Or at home.
TexasAggie_02
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soso33 said:

Quote:

and will go through extensive training, including crisis intervention and management of hostage situations.

Now, wait a minute. Teachers are already resource-strapped as it is. And they don't have a lot of extra time to spare. When is this training proposed to happen?


Quote:

Training will take place over the summer, and the Guardian Plan requirements and training will be included in the district's emergency operation procedures to note what must be done every nine weeks, every semester or every year.
So teachers are supposed to give up more of their summer? I don't think this will be very popular.


it's optional. If they want to do it, they will.
LOYAL AG
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I'll never understand those that will argue why it is better to face an active shooter with no weapon than with one that's not in an ideal place such as a safe or their purse or anywhere else. On your person is ideal but unless the shooter opens fire in your room odds are extremely high you're going to have time to get your weapon. My wife's room is a long way from any door so wherever a firearm is in her room she'll probably have time to get it. But if the gun is forbidden she has no hope of getting it. That seems obvious.

If we don't want teachers with sidearms, and I get that concern, put it in a finger print safe bolted to a cabinet or wall. They are the only person getting it but again unless the shooting starts in their room they will likely have time to get the weapon
75AG
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If the school's plan is to bolt the classroom door shut. Allowing NO ONE in the classroom, no matter the situation - including a child, or staff trying to seek shelter - then the potential for accidental loss of life is greatly reduced. And a teacher having a gun on his or her person could be beneficial. However without that safeguard, any child or staff trying to escape harm is in danger of being accidentally shot by a well meaning and well trained teacher.

Law enforcement officers train continuously for this eventuality. Even with the training outlined above, not facing this danger everyday (as do LEOs), muscle memory fades.
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