It's not that it is a club where you have to pay monthly. It the asking for donations for no other reason than they are the 12 and we should give to them.

I take great satisfaction in knowing that despite the bat bags, custom equipment and all the rest of the frills, very few if any of these kids will fulfill their parents' expectations and in the end will simply get told at the appropriate level, "You're not good enough." Meanwhile, some kids in the Dominican are playing in the streets and are on the fast track to pro ball. You can't buy talent.

[This message has been edited by NFLFAN (edited 3/15/2009 11:21a).]

quote:

---

That seems like a lotta cash.

---

Not considering how much stuff they do/have, and the kind of instruction they're getting. For the record, I find it odd they're soliciting donations. And NO group should have rude members. But there is a lot of broad-brush sour grapes bashing of The Twelve in general on this board that I don't think is warranted.

quote:

---

I take great satisfaction in knowing...very few if any of these kids will fulfill their parents' expectations and...simply get told, "You're not good enough."

---

Wow, I've joked around a bit on this and other threads, but this is seriously one of the most pathetic things I've ever read. You remember you're an "adult" and you're talking about 10 year olds, right?

[This message has been edited by Nom de Plume (edited 3/15/2009 12:00p).]

quote:

---

Why are folks so upset with the 12? What about the Stealth, the Dragons, the Stallions, the Huricanes, the Knights, and the Owlz?

---

dont know about any of those teams...but the premiere select program in this area...the BV Renegades who have been around for 16 years..they have 2 18U teams...their entry fee last year was about $450 for the summer.
they played over 40 games, went on a trip to Florida and one to Louisiana, hosted a tournament at Olsen Field, included in this cost was uniforms, tshirts, hats..everything
only thing not included was the cost of the florida trip and my son went...for food, lodging, transportation to and from florida ect ect was like $100 total..and hotel expense for trip to Louisiana and thay was like $15 a night
and I can promise you I have never seen any of their players camping out in front on stores asking for donations



[This message has been edited by Aggie (edited 3/15/2009 12:05p).]

If that is one of the most pathetic things you have heard, I suggest you gain some exposure.

Or read. Or whatever you want.

Either way, still sad.

Maybe I am making some unfair assumptions about these kids, but I have seen as well as coached a few too many entitled kids who had the audacity to complain -even in victory- about not getting the ball enough, blah, blah, blah. And what I have found in the great majority of cases is that their parents are both the origins and enablers of this attitude. For the kids in the Twelve who are genuinely not this way, then I certainly wish them well. There are however kids, as well as parents, in all programs (not specfically the Twelve) who need to be brought crashing down. Life usually takes care of that. I just root it on.

[This message has been edited by NFLFAN (edited 3/15/2009 12:09p).]

The jobs that their parents do not withstanding, "rooting" for a kid to eventually fail is pathetic.

And unless we are reading what you're posting incorrectly, that's whay you say that you do.

If the kids behave in the atrocious manner I described, I certainly root for them to fail. You read it right.

quote:

---

Why are folks so upset with the 12? What about the Stealth, the Dragons, the Stallions, the Huricanes, the Knights, and the Owlz?

---

I think the difference is that these teams don't have players asking for donations in front of all the stores. Most people probably, like me, have never heard of these other teams.

I certainly have never had my children tell me about players from these teams have 'elite' attitudes to other children in school.

Don't play select or club if you can't afford it. I usually have no trouble supporting an organization that is selling something - but those that stand on street corners or in front of business wanting cash for nothing are ridiculous.

We bought several 12 cards from a player whose parents struggle to make the payments for not just the monthly Twelve dues but all the extras. I was privileged to help this family out and we have enjoyed the Chicken Express! I just wish that all these teams did fundraisers for the purpose of raising scholarship money. Lots of kids in the area would love to participate but they can't afford the programs. I would buy almost anything if I thought it was going toward a scholarship for a young athlete who would otherwise be unable to play.

quote:

---

But there is a lot of broad-brush sour grapes bashing of The Twelve in general on this board that I don't think is warranted.

---

I can give a list of reasons:
1. Kids on the 12 act like jerks to other children that are not on the 12. They verbally insult other children.
2. The 12 'cuts' players quicker than quick sand if they don't play to the standards of the academy.
3. The parents of the 12 are just as rude as the children in most cases.
4. The 12 players will play on fields marked with closed signs at the baseball parks, because they are above the city's ordinance.

If kids and parents are going to act like an elite group, they have to be able to take the heat.

As a parent of a Twelve player and a Little Leaguer, I wanted to give a few responses...

>>First off I dont mind giving donations to people or orginizations that need them...but when the kids out
>>there have on $100 pullover jackets with a 12 embroided on them...something tells me they dont need my donation.
>>and the several times I have been asked about giving a donation to the 12...and I have said no thank you..
>>the parents have responded in a rude manner. a few weeks ago in front of Academy I said no and this mom then
>>told me "but its for kids"..I replied "sorry but no"..and she then told me to have agood day but in a very sarcastic tone
>>today a dad actually told me.."well..I hope other people are willing to donate for kids" Seriously...where do these people get off

The pullovers are an optional item that cost less than $50 with the logo stitching. Please check your facts before slamming someone.
I am embarrassed if any parents acted the way you described and I apologize on their behalf. I hope that behavior is a rare occurrence. When I am supervising the boys I try to make sure they are very courteous. I am very grateful to the community for helping us out. Travel baseball is fairly expensive and this is a way for the boys to help pay for part of it. BTW, we haven't sold at Academy since last year so you must be mistaken on that location.


>> wannabe elitism at its finest

That is just plain silly. What is wrong with supporting their team as opposed to spending that much or more on Abercrombie & Fitch sweatshirts like a lot of your kids do?


>>At least the Little League kids are using their time and energy to play baseball. They aren't wasting it sitting
>>outside a store learning to beg. That's not the message I want my kids to get.

Kids on these travel teams spend a whole lot more time playing baseball than little league kids do, plain and simple. Unfortunately, you do have to do some travelling to play good teams. The 12 boys are not begging, they are selling a card which is actually a very good deal to those that eat out frequently. So, you think it a bad message to tell your child that they are going to do some work to help pay it instead of footing the entire bill yourself?


>>If you are going to sign your son up to play an elite sport, then you need to foot the bill for them.
>>Don't ask the community for donations. It's a choice to play or not.

Again, it isn't a pure donation. I think the cards are a great deal for those that like to dine out. I wouldn't let my son participate otherwise. I feel this is a great way for them to help pay for the costs.


>>The 12 kids really have elite attitudes when talking to other children about their club. My son will come home saying
>>that kids from the 12 will say things like "well I play for the 12 so I play baseball better than you".
>>Or my favorite line, which was told to my 8 year old son from a 12 player that was also 8.
>>His quote "You must really suck at playing baseball since you only play little league and not for the 12 like I do".

Remember, there a lot more boys playing with the 12 compared to most of the other teams. Don't paint them all with a broad brush. Perhaps there are a few bad apples but there really are a lot of good kids too. Regarding your last comment, remember that most 8 year olds are not very mature.


>>does the 12 really give their players customized individual batting bags if so that is ridiculous
>>WTF do 8,9,10 year old kids need with that..is a customized batting bag and expensive pullover jacket gonna help them in any way in baseball
>>I see the expensive gear the kids wear around town and out at Olsen..have no idea what else they get
>>so is the 12's goal to turn all these kids into primadonna's before they get to high school

No. Some teams choose to get matching bags. My son’s team did. We are talking about < $50 including the embroidery (embroidery is not that expensive folks). That is a totally reasonable price for a bag that they use year round.
The Twelve’s goal is to try and make them better baseball players. The players are only required to buy 2 fairly inexpensive uniforms and a helmet. That is it. All of the other stuff is optional.

[This message has been edited by ilovebacon (edited 3/15/2009 2:41p).]

I bet atleast half of yall are parents of kids on the Stealth.

Gig'em

I was at Academy and I talked with a store employee about the kids and parents - I told him they should consider how many customers may not want to return because of the kids in the front bombarding you for donations...

ilovebacon why don't you encourage your kids volunteer in the community instead of spending time out front of businesses bothering the public? I know Twin City Mission is always happy to have volunteers (especially on the weekends), Brazos Animal Shelter, etc. Maybe it would be wise to show the kids how much they have compared to others - maybe they will think twice about asking for embroidered gym bags, etc.


FWIW

[This message has been edited by CountingCrowsFan (edited 3/15/2009 2:52p).]

quote:

---

I bet atleast half of yall are parents of kids on the Stealth.

---

I don't have any kids on the Stealth. My dislikes come totally from the rude comments made to my children and the elite attitude.

I was at the soccer field last year and watched two teams from the 12 practice at the Southwood Valley fields that were all closed when the new lights were being installed. This was not just one bad seed, this was groups of parents, players, and coaches out there.

Well do you know any of them? I don't think so. I do. They are all very kind. You just haven't met them.

Gig'em

Aggieboy I can't say I know/have any kids on the Stealth - as a recent college grad and newlywed I flat out don't appreciate being asked for money left and right.

I can honestly say that I have seen the players from the 12yr old "premiere" team out in front of Post Oak Mall during the holidays ringing the Salvation Army bell for charity. This was their way of giving back to the community that supported them through out the year. I can't speak for what the other teams/ages did, but the team run by KB did an outstanding job.

C'mon, CCF, there is more panhandling in this town than any I've ever been in. Its hardly fair to pick on The Twelve exclusively. We just got finished being inundated by the Girl Scouts for a month, and they ARE out front of every store. If you don't want to buy/donate, don't; its pretty simple.

quote:

---

I can give a list of reasons:
1. Kids on the 12 act like jerks to other children that are not on the 12. They verbally insult other children.

---

Sweet. Keep painting with the broad brush; you've quite a stroke.

quote:

---

2. The 12 'cuts' players quicker than quick sand if they don't play to the standards of the academy.

---

Wtf do you care? Seriously. Its select ball and you're not in it. Its not a right to play on the team.

quote:

---

4. The 12 players will play on fields marked with closed signs at the baseball parks, because they are above the city's ordinance.

---

Sigh...wrong again. They've FOUGHT for equal rights against LL and others, and spent MUCH of their time losing that battle badly.

quote:

---

If kids and parents are going to act like an elite group, they have to be able to take the heat.

---

By those not in the group, I guess. lol To each his/her own on this, obviously. I'm not sure how much it comes into play, but look at other threads with similar topics: there is a subset of people that TRULY do not want to see others being successful. Is there elitism happening? Perhaps; folks from every walk of life act like morons. But as I alluded to earlier, there is a fair share of jealousy/sour grapes surrounding this topic, as well.

[This message has been edited by Nom de Plume (edited 3/15/2009 3:47p).]

quote:

---

4. The 12 players will play on fields marked with closed signs at the baseball parks, because they are above the city's ordinance.

Sigh...wrong again. They've FOUGHT for equal rights against LL and others, and spent MUCH of their time losing that battle badly.

---

So when the City of College Station closes fields for cleaning, maintenance, etc. the 12 still has the right to be on the fields, but all other leagues do not? Read the post!

Bitterness...

Others with more info will come along, hopefully. I know for quite some time they were being ****ed by the city. I can't justify them breaking the rules.

Geez we are talking about youth baseball! These are just kids.

Why can't the youth baseball community in College Station figure out how to work together?

I'm pretty much sick of all the bs going on over this...

My main concern with these select teams is how many of the pitchers end up having to have Tommy John surgery. I've seen too many of these kids pitching way too many innings. It also doesn't help that the coaches make them throw off speed pitches at way too young of an age. Careers are ended before they are even begun.

quote:

---

I was at Academy and I talked with a store employee about the kids and parents - I told him they should consider how many customers may not want to return because of the kids in the front bombarding you for donations...

---

CountingCrowsFan, unless that was last year it wasn’t us.

quote:

---

ilovebacon why don't you encourage your kids volunteer in the community instead of spending time out front of businesses bothering the public? I know Twin City Mission is always happy to have volunteers (especially on the weekends), Brazos Animal Shelter, etc. Maybe it would be wise to show the kids how much they have compared to others - maybe they will think twice about asking for embroidered gym bags, etc.

---

CountingCrowsFan, we already do. Our team participated in the MASH toy drive. Our family (including our son) has participated in Race for the Cure, Salvation Army bell ringing, we save our loose change to donate to a charity of our choice, among other things. We plan on doing more. Again with the embroidery? The bags are absolutely necessary and putting the number on them helps tell them apart. All for a whopping $5. Is it really that big of a bother just say no and move on? I buy stuff all the time from kids selling things. I see value in them earning money to pay for some of the cost as opposed to daddy paying for it all.

I'm glad to hear they volunteer, good for them.

I guess if the cuts happened fairly, instead of politics driving the decision, then maybe the 12 would have a better reputation.

quote:

---

My main concern with these select teams is how many of the pitchers end up having to have Tommy John surgery. I've seen too many of these kids pitching way too many innings. It also doesn't help that the coaches make them throw off speed pitches at way too young of an age. Careers are ended before they are even begun.

---

I have the same concern (happens in Little League too) and that is something I really like about the Twelve. They take arm health very seriously. No breaking balls. Don't overwork pitchers, most teams have plenty of pitchers. They do stretching and conditioning work. They wear those "expensive and unecessary" pullovers to keep the arms warm. Etc. That's not to say no Twelve kids is ever going to hurt his arm. Pitching is very tough on the joints.

ilovebacon,

are you certain that there wasn't a couple of kids from the 12 at Academy? I can't imagine that the original poster could have made that mistake given all the details on attire? It has been my understanding that each age group decides on when and where they do fund raising events, and it isn't decided as an organization. I don't have a problem with them selling at Academy, and I have seen some selling out side of Kroger in Bryan. It is a shame that a couple of parents could not control their emotions. I hope this doesn't deter the community from supporting them.

between this thread and the others I have seen on here about door-to-door solicitors, I have to ask what some of you seem to have such a problem just telling people "NO" and moving on?

I was approached by some baseball kids (no idea what team - didnt' care) about a year ago -- maybe last summer -- at Academy or Gander (don't remember). I just told them I wasn't interested and left it at that. I didn't pay any attention to what any of the parents had to say about me saying "no" nor did I care.

At least the 12 is selling something for their fundraising efforts instead of camping out on a street corner "begging" for donations like other organizations have done. I think the only organization that I have ever given money to at a stoplight is the Fire Department "Fill The Boot" campaign. That is acceptable in my opinion, but a youth sports team asking for money for nothing is wrong. Do something for my donation - wash cars, sell coupon books, sell candy, etc. - just do something instead of flat out asking for money.

Kudos to the 12 for at least offering a service or product in their fundraising efforts.

quote:

---

are you certain that there wasn't a couple of kids from the 12 at Academy? I can't imagine that the original poster could have made that mistake given all the details on attire? It has been my understanding that each age group decides on when and where they do fund raising events, and it isn't decided as an organization.

---

I'm pretty sure it wasn't our 13 year olds, because everything goes through our fundraising coordinator. However, there very well could have been another age group there. They wouldn't be selling the 2 for 1 cards but something else perhaps.

Where does the name "The Twelve" come from anyway? Is it a shameless attempt to take advantage of this community's love for the 12th Man tradition? How does it relate to baseball?

quote:

---

between this thread and the others I have seen on here about door-to-door solicitors, I have to ask what some of you seem to have such a problem just telling people "NO" and moving on?

---

The problem is they don't accept a polite "No, thank you" and let you move on as the original poster pointed out. It's the in your face attitude and the expectation that their kids should be my priority that turns me off. I guess maybe I should use the "NO" approach instead of "No, thank you."

The parents/kids made the choice to participate in this "elite" sport so they should figure out how to finance it. Maybe the kid (depending on their age) should mow a few lawns to finance his sport or let Dad or Mom get a part-time job to finance the only $50 bag or sweatshirt. Just don't look down on others because they have a finite money supply and choose to support their own children's activities, help out kids who can't afford even the basics in a sport or support some other charity that is completely unrelated.