I have had men come in a bull doze clear for me before, but this time I want to do it myself. My question is, dozer or bobcat with shears. Anyone have experience here. I don't like the stumps left after burning the piles the dozer leaves. But, I don't know about shearing the trees off and then gathering them.

Back....I am pretty sure they will grow right back...err if you only chop them at ground level.

[This message has been edited by deatsman (edited 3/20/2007 1:16p).]

If you do chop them off at the ground you can go up to tractor supply or home depot and get that stuff (I dont know what its called) that you paint on the stump that will stop it from groing back. but that means you have to go paint over each tree you bull doze

Let it grow and make fence posts out of it, or grind it into chips and sell it for mulch...off season lease income

If you are doing it yourself, I would go through with a chainsaw and cut everything off near the ground, then have a stump shredder come in and take care of those. If you don't want to do that much work, just get a dozer.

http://texnat.tamu.edu/BrushBusters/Cedar.htm

If you don't want them to grow back we use a combination Remedy and diesel mixed in a small backpack sprayer with a wand. I'd just follow behind and spray all the stumps. Remedy is hell on mesquite....I'd assume it's not too friendly towards cedar either?

http://texnat.tamu.edu/BrushBusters/CutStumpsRedberry.htm

Cedar doesn't grow back after its cut down. That's why clearing it works better than trying to clear mesquite.

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That's true for the kind of cedar I'm used to, (blueberry cedar) but, apparently not for redberry cedar.

You know what's funny? I have cut down and shredded thousands of those darn trees and for the life of me, I can't remember what color the berries are. As I walk the place, I can see ground level stumps that were "cedar chopped" years ago and have never had re-growth. I am west of Waco in Bosque county.

I can get a unmanned dozer for $55 an hour. Has anyone used the Bobcat w/ shears? Ease of use? Cost?

As far as I know, Bosque County has only blueberry (ashe) juniper. Red berry is found further west/southwest. When you cut it off (leaving NO green limbs) it dies. The only problem with shearing is the possibility of leaving small limbs down low - especially if the cedar is small or in rocky terrain.

One thing to consider is the type of land. I live in limestone country and bulldozed cedar several years ago. It took the grass forever to regain a foothold after the dozer did its work. Last year, I cleared a little more using a rotary chopper mounted on a skid steer. No piles to burn. Mulch covering the ground. No stumps. Grass already coming back.

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Those rotary choppers do an amazing job. That's the most common way I've seen them (blueberry cedar) dealt with around Austin.

I'm familiar with the "Cedar Eaters", and they can do an amazing job. The key word is "can". If rockas are in the way of the tree base, small limbs can be left, resulting in regrowth. I have also seen them leave a 6 inch (or more) mulch so thick that grass can't come up through it. They also cost $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

[This message has been edited by B-1 83 (edited 3/21/2007 9:54a).]

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Yes, $$$$; Mostly used in residential and commercial developments. Doing big acreage would be mega $$$$. I've seen them used in the fifteen acre size ranchets where the land is in the 10k/acre range.

Me and my family are in the process of clearing a little over 22 acres of land thats covered in cedar, its in New Braunfels. We bought a skid steer loader with the sheers. We put tracks on it over the tires because of the rocks out there and that thing is a dream. You can cut cedar up tp about 15 inches in diameter. We cut it at the ground and either push it into piles of use the sheers to pinch the trees and stack into piles. We've been doing it off and on for almost a year and we've got more than a third of the land cut and burned, and it looks so much better now that its gone. I highly reccommend this and its probably much cheaper than a dozer. The only time cedar will grow back is if you leave any of the gree still on the stump, it will continue to grow, but if you clear all the green of the stump it'll die. Of course if you have cedar there will be seeds in the ground that will have to be kept up with avter they sprout, we're planning on getting goats because they'll eat the little cedars. If you want to know anything ask, I've got a lot of experience with the shears.

We are in about year 4 of our ongoing process of clearing the cedar off of about 2500 acres.

We use a skid steer with the biggest hydraulic sheer we could find that it could take. It works like a charm. I have been pretty impressed with how close to the ground you can cut a cedar. It's almost like it was never there. One guy runs the sheer and another runs the excavator. We use the excavator to pile up the cedars high and/or to get the ones in areas to rocky for the skid steer.

the difference on our place is night and day. The oaks can finally breathe again. BTW, I hate cedar.

It is a futile battle, long term. Birds and other critters eat the seeds, and crap them out on your property. It may take 10-20 years, but they'll be back. Still, it does clear out a lot of the mess, and gives the scruboaks and mesquite or whatever else you've got growing some room.

It still doesn't "smell" right when it is gone, though. That cedar smell is just part of that hill country fresh air smell I'm used to.

It is a native plant (well, some varieties at least), and it is going to naturally grow back as soon as you stop killing it off.

Just out of curiosity, what is the motivation for removing cedar, other than to generally thin the undergrowth and for aesthetic reasons? I can understand shooting lanes and such, but the whole property? In my view, it provides food and cover for native animals and birds, so at least some of it would be retained on any property I owned. To each his own I guess.

[This message has been edited by MouthBQ98 (edited 3/21/2007 11:37a).]

I could write for the rest of the day about getting rid of cedar,BQ.

A native? Most certainly, but not in the densities found today. Historic records indicate it grew mainly on the steeper slopes and in some canyons, but rarely in flatter country with good soil. The reason? FIRE. It is extremely susceptible to fire. Fire kept it out before, and should be used to keep it out now. With good grazing management, grass will grow back and provide not only fuel, but competition for young cedar seedlings.

Wildlife plant? I think not. If deer are munching the cedar, you have other problems. I'm not opposed to leaving a few large ones on a place, but I can grow much better plants after the cedar is gone.

Water hogs. Up to 75% of the year's rainfall can be caught up in the canopy and duff below the cedar.

B-1. I'll agree with that. Our roads and fire prevention efforts have pretty dramatically changed the landscape, and yes, there are a lot more shrubs and bushes in general because there is a lot less fire to burn back shrub, bush and tree growth. Roads serving as firebrakes are a LOT of the reason, and the fact that we put fires out probably more often than we should, just because they can be unpredictable and hard to control. If it wasn't for that, it would be probably a good thing to take a torch to a few acres every few years.

There has also been some gradual climate change (normal) that has sort of promoted shrub and tree growth over large parts of texas that used to be much more grassland. can't do much about that.

I had been noticing over my lifetime how I was seeing more and more young juniper/cedars, but that in many areas, large and old ones are fairly rare. I'm talking about seeing cedar trees 40 and 50 feet tall in places. So I can definitely agree with clearing back excessive cedars, and excessive brush in general to open it up. But completely clearing all cedar off a property, like I said to each his own.

There are many critters besides deer that eat the berries, birds particularly. you can see the seeds in animal droppings quite often..I'm not some nutty tree hugger at all, but I personally like a healthy variety of nature on my place, and a little cedar here and there is part of that in the hill country.

[This message has been edited by MouthBQ98 (edited 3/21/2007 12:23p).]

As noted, besides the fact that it is ugly, will kill out your oaks and can be a fire hazard, water is the main reason.

The state is becoming very concerned about it to. Cedar could turn the Hill Country into a dust bowl especially in these prolonged drought cycles.

We leave some patches of it here and there for wildlife cover and refuse. Other than that, I say death to it. Cedar unchecked can flat out destroy a piece of property.

Don't forget the curse of the golden cheeked warbler.

I agree with you there, there is too much of it in many many places. It just started to sound like it was considered some kind of curse from hell that deserved eradication though it is a native. It does make good smelling mulch

[This message has been edited by R.R. Ag (edited 3/21/2007 3:04p).]

The key to clearing cedar (Ashe Juniper) is to burn the area after clearing. This helps eliminate any small cedars and also helps promote growth of grasses and native hardwoods. Contact TPWD and have them come out and help you set up a wildlife management plan that includes burning. I the CenTex area burning should be done at least 2 X every 10 years. The Golden Cheeked Warbler does not use "regrowth" juniper, but only mature juniper, meaning that all of the small junipers you see are the real problems, combined with a lack of native hardwood trees. Check out the Leon River Restoration Project for more info on how this stuff works (Based out of the Ft. Hood area)
http://irnr.tamu.edu/LRRP/index.cfm