In the next couple of months the bay systems are going to start to heat up and then it'll be time for the croaker bite. There is gonna be a big debate over whether or not it is ethical to fish with croaker because they are some "magic" bait. Now I hear they have "black saltys" which are I believe freshwater fish grown and used as saltwater bait instead of croaker. I think they even overnight them to you. I mostly throw artificial but do throw croaker every now and then. I am not hardcore one way or the other as they both can either work or not work to catch fish. Any opinions out there one way or another on this issue? Anybody ever use/ seen these "black salty" things?

B

The black salties work. I saw a guy win 2 tournaments in Galveston last year with them, and won himself a new boat. He fishes the jetties. I personally prefer live finger mullet for everything, and they're a lot cheaper b/c I catch my own. I've been throwing lures more and more over the last couple years. Lots less trouble. You don't have to waste time throwing the cast net, and you don't have to mess with bait buckets and aereators. BUT, sometimes in the heat of the summer, the trout get tight-lipped, and will not hit lures very well. That's when it's time to break out the carolina rigs and soak some meat!

You have some people that are purists and only throw arties, but that's their choice. I'll throw what's catching them, end of story. I like eating fish, and usually I only keep what I can eat in a month or 2.

I could say something about the irony of your chosen user name and the topic, but I'll refrain.

When I was ne'er-do-well fishing 5 days/week (weekends were left for the "Haoles", we used to smoke 'em on ballyhoo that we freelined underneath a mauler at the Sabine jetties.

Back then, we'd walk the east jetty and just follow the bait with the tide. We used a No. 2 treble through the nose, and when they'd get slurped you'd have to freespool to a count of 10 to get a hook set.

But boy, was it on then. Some ICBM's, too. One time me and buddy of mine iced down 18 fish for a total weight of just over 94 lbs.

The only negative is that 'hoo are almost impossible to catch and they're even harder to keep alive if you put more than 10 in your Flow-Troll at one time (aerators killed them in less than 5 mins). They travel right on the surface, and after a game of rock/paper/scissors determined the unlucky netter, said loser would have to mount the bow of the boat while the lucky winner motor around rather fast until we a school (usually anywhere from 3-15) was spotted. The driver would then goose it straight toward the school while the netter twirled it as low to the water as possible hoping to crash it in their anticipated escape right. You had to put it right on 'em or they'd see the shadow and scatter.

Fell in the drink many a time doing that.

Then we learned you could chum 'em.

speaking of potlickin'

How about site casting to cruising reds in skinny water with cut ballyhoo down in the lower Laguna. Easy pickins.

A few of the bait stands on JFK sold Black Saltys last year. I really haven't heard too much about them, sans the articles in TF&G & GCC.

As far as soaking croakers, I just don't have the desire to do it. Chunking hard and soft plastics to catch five trout gives me more satisfaction than netting ten trout on coraker anyday.

With that said, there is a time and place for it. Beginning anglers and kids can have a ball slaying the trout with those egg stealers.

My biggest gripe is with the folks who soak regularly (more than 2-3 times a month) just to fill their box...and those that claim not to are lying. There's very little catch and release on croakers, even with the advent of the C-Hook. Just keep 5!!!

My main goal in life is to find a beer as cold as a woman's heart

CC....if you think there is any more catch and release with artificials I would have to argue that you are dead wrong. I personally have no problem switching to any sort of live bait after the artificials fail. This weekend around the King Ranch shoreline, there were no fish moving. So, after 8 hours of fairly unsuccesful fishing, we switched to live shrimp. No shame in that (even though the shrimp caught nothing).

Roper-

I had a tough time til I (well, the guy with me) found the right color!!

And, I dont use live bait very often, and croaker are too tough to keep alive. I'll use them once a year, maybe.

Will dunk shrimp with my kids.

I occasionally fish live bait. It flat works. My wife prefers live bait fishing around the jetties so I do that when she's along. usually home with our toddlers, though, so I just grab my waders, tackle bag and two rods drop the Whaler in saltwater off my island and go fishing. I catch many more fish (and better quality)on artificials than live bait, but I spend 10x as many hours doing it.

I've never used Black Salty's and probably never will unless I'm fishing with women, children, physically handicapped individuals, or perhaps if I one day take up trotlining down at Choke.

Black Salties are a freshwater fish (essentially carp/goldfish) raised in an Arkansas hatchery. They are extremely durable and can tolerate saltwater for up to 30 minutes or so until they croak.

Which means that if you're taking them on your boat at the coast, you don't need a saltwater live well but a freshwater live well is a must.

If you're boatless and like to 'yak or park-and-wade with a bait bucket, you're pretty much SOL.

A dozen Black Salties cost about the same as a dozen croaker (which, ironically, is about the same price as a Top Dog or Spook).

Can somebody tell this landlubber what the hell you're talking about?

www.blacksalty.com

Roper,

There is a HUGE difference in c&r with regards to croaker and shrimp. The original post was about croaker soaking...not popping shrimp. The manner in which a trout strikes a shrimp with regards to a croaker is night and day. Yes, I've lost dink trout due to swallowing the hook while fishing with shrimp (same with soft plastics) but the percentages (at least what I have experienced) are far worse with croaker.

I have no problem with fishing with live bait. I've popped my fair share of alameda corks. And yes, when the water is boiling it's hard not to buy a pint of shrimp. But my preference is to chunk platics.

With that said my fishing partner was on the King Ranch (2 miles past Emmords) shoreline on Sat. and got into a nice mess of fish. He hit the cycle in the 20-25" range (20,21,22,23,24,25). But like the good conservationist, he only kept 3.

My main goal in life is to find a beer as cold as a woman's heart

C.C. Bay Ag, I need to meet you! I've just moved to CC and need fishing lessons.

B-1,

Unfortunately I just moved to Houston for law school. I'm taking my first fishing trip of the year next week since I'll be on Spring Break. It's been a tough withdraw not being able to fish regularly.

I don't miss the city itself, but I sure do miss the water.

My main goal in life is to find a beer as cold as a woman's heart

I only get down to Rockport once a year...usually for a few days in June. We primarily fish croaker and shrimp until that runs out and then go to artificial. At the end of the day, I am usually pretty pissed off at the fish and want a full box. Whatever it takes to get to that goal is what I do. I call b.s. on the "purists" who are against live bait. I supposed if I lived down there and did it all of the time I would fish more artificial. That's just not the case.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using croakers for bait. If the TPWD didn't want you using croakers they'd outlaw them, if they didn't want you catching 10 fish per person, they'd lower the limit. Trout fishing has never been better in my lifetime. This "ethical" bait argument is useless.
With that being said, I don't choose to use croakers because they are hard to keep alive on real hot days with out an aeration system that you have to finance. They must be segregated from shrimp also so two livewells are needed when storing both. I catch all the fish I want on shrimp and plastic. And I don't ***** about the people who use croakers and slaughter the trout. I don't use them, I don't care. FISH ON!

CC-

So you gonn be at Emmerts this week end? Or early next week?

JJ,

It will probably be at the end of next week.

Triple Four,

TPWD has considered banning croaker. There are some harcore "lobbyist" that have been trying for years to put an end to it...though I cringe everytime I hear about regulations stipulating what I can and can't do with regards to my beloved fishing.

Heck, there's a huge push to ban driving on Padre Island National Seashore (PINS). Why? So the developers can come in and turn it into a condo/hotel haven like SPI.

My main goal in life is to find a beer as cold as a woman's heart

CC- I'll give you a report. I'm going down from Sun to Wed.

Did a search on croaker soaking. I've NEVER done it but I may give it a try this weekend if my plastics aren't putting fish in the boat.
Some interesting thoughts on this thread.

I was fishing with croaker before it was "discovered"...because it simply made sense to use it. That being said, I never had much luck with them.

Croaker and deep hooking isn't a problem if you use CIRCLE HOOKS.

Easy to find, common bait sized fish? Check
Easy to keep alive? Check, if you know what you're doing
Make noise that attracts fish? Check
Don't get pecked apart by pinfish and needlefish? Check

Why they weren't used much 10, 20, 50 years ago is beyond me...

Old thread. I no longer need the lessons on the jetty, but wade fishing and artificials out of a boat are another story. The "trout hate croaker" debate was put to rest in a research/news article not long ago. The attraction to croaker seems to be related more to the "croaking" noises of the wounded fish. Finger mullet are a great second choice.

i fish with both - whatever they will hit is what i do. i have no problem with people that throw only live bait. my problem is people keeping 10 fish all the time. unless you have a huge family or plan a fish fry that nite, only keep 5. leave some fish for next time. trout is 100% better fresh and gets mealy once frozen and then thawed out. i never freeze any, always cook them same day.

for those of you who agree, support changing the limit to 5 a day so that our kids can enjoy fishing better than it is now

quote:

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or those of you who agree, support changing the limit to 5 a day so that our kids can enjoy fishing better than it is now

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This is an easy position to support if you have easy access to fishing. It is difficult for me to justify spending the $$$ to go fishing for Trout if the limit is only 5 fish. The same goes for the 2/4 limit on Snapper.

You've never seen a croaker until you've seen one that spent the night in a Salty Air system.

gulps

Just like national government, I don't want to be told what I can or can't use to catch speckled trout and redfish. The science has determined that if X fisherman fish, than a limit of 10 will not hurt the population. Even if they limit every time. I hope that we can just be responsible and sensible when it comes to fishing. If you want to keep 10, and you need croakers to get there, go for it. I'll help you clean them. I personally will let any trout over 20" go, unless my freezer is empty.